WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.000 So what would it do in your mind if I 2 00:00:02.040 --> 00:00:05.120 was to tell you that I am a legal marijuana 3 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:13.119 patient in the state of Connecticut. From futuro media, it's Latino, USA. 4 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:17.520 I'm Maria in no Josa today. The argument for decriminalization 5 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:24.680 to end the War on drugs. In the summer of 6 00:00:24.840 --> 00:00:29.080 nineteen seventy one, President Richard Nixon declared US so called 7 00:00:29.360 --> 00:00:30.400 War on drugs. 8 00:00:30.920 --> 00:00:35.120 But I consider this problem so urgent. I also found 9 00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:38.400 that it was scattered so much throughout the government, with 10 00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:42.360 so much conflict without coordination, that it had to be 11 00:00:42.400 --> 00:00:46.040 brought into the White House, so that we have not 12 00:00:46.080 --> 00:00:49.440 only the responsibility, but the authority to see that we 13 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:56.960 wage this defensive effectively in an a coordinated way. 14 00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:01.160 The goal was to curb the use of a substances 15 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:06.160 by levying increased police presence, classifying a number of drugs 16 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:10.640 at the federal level, and by making longer prison sentences 17 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:15.040 mandatory for the use and distribution of narcotics. Nearing the 18 00:01:15.080 --> 00:01:18.600 fiftieth anniversary of that decision, the war on drugs is 19 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:29.480 still very much alive. Millions of people have been incarcerated 20 00:01:29.880 --> 00:01:33.560 from broken windows policing and the advent of stop and 21 00:01:33.640 --> 00:01:37.720 frisk to no knock warrants, and the militarization of local 22 00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:41.320 police departments. All of this born from the so called 23 00:01:41.440 --> 00:01:44.520 War on drugs, and all have been used to primarily 24 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:54.920 target communities of color. Advocates for reform have long argued 25 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:58.800 that punitive policies have not only failed to reduce the 26 00:01:58.840 --> 00:02:04.120 flow of drugs the country, but also strengthened illicit drug markets, 27 00:02:04.360 --> 00:02:08.640 creating risky and unhealthy conditions for people who choose to 28 00:02:08.760 --> 00:02:13.200 use drugs. Meanwhile, more than seventy thousand people died last 29 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:20.760 year alone as a result of drug overdoses. The US 30 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:24.240 is clearly failing in the War on drugs, and advocates 31 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:26.919 say it's because we've gone about it completely the wrong 32 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:30.399 way by focusing on the criminal element of drug use 33 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:33.000 instead of seeing it through a lens of health care 34 00:02:33.040 --> 00:02:36.839 access and social justice. To talk about this issue, we're 35 00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:40.080 joined by Maritzaperees, who's the director of the Office of 36 00:02:40.200 --> 00:02:43.720 National Affairs at the Drug Policy Alliance in Washington, d C. 37 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:48.119 She leads the organization's federal work to end the War 38 00:02:48.200 --> 00:02:52.120 on drugs. Maritzaperees, Welcome to Latino, USA. 39 00:02:52.160 --> 00:02:54.239 Thank you. I'm so excited to be here with you today. 40 00:02:55.200 --> 00:02:58.400 So recently a lot has been happening with drug decriminalization. 41 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:01.480 But before we get into that, let's take a few 42 00:03:01.480 --> 00:03:05.880 steps back and set the picture for how we got 43 00:03:06.040 --> 00:03:08.399 to this place. And this is a place where, for example, 44 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:11.760 someone could be caught in possession of a small amount 45 00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:15.600 of marijuana and they could be sentenced to spend the 46 00:03:15.600 --> 00:03:18.560 rest of their life in prison in some parts of 47 00:03:18.600 --> 00:03:19.080 the country. 48 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:21.919 Still, yes, sadly that's the case. 49 00:03:22.040 --> 00:03:25.839 Drug enforcement continues to be a driver of mass incarceration. 50 00:03:26.400 --> 00:03:29.679 In fact, one person is arrested every twenty three seconds 51 00:03:29.720 --> 00:03:33.520 for simple drug possession. So it continues to be a 52 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:36.160 big feeder into not just the criminal justice system. But 53 00:03:36.200 --> 00:03:38.840 you have to think of all of the collateral consequences. 54 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:41.560 For instance, a conviction can make it harder for you 55 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:44.520 to put your life back on track, to go to school, 56 00:03:44.720 --> 00:03:47.120 to obtain or even get a job in the first place, 57 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:49.760 to keep a roof over your head, to feed your family. 58 00:03:50.480 --> 00:03:53.320 So it continues to be something that is a huge 59 00:03:53.320 --> 00:03:56.080 detriment in a lot of people's lives. Many drugs that 60 00:03:56.120 --> 00:04:01.600 are illegal today, such as marijuana, opium, coc psychedelics, they've 61 00:04:01.600 --> 00:04:04.000 been used for thousands of years, For both medical and 62 00:04:04.040 --> 00:04:05.120 spiritual purposes. 63 00:04:05.600 --> 00:04:06.400 But we also know. 64 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:09.400 That this country has a long history of perpetuating a 65 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:12.360 racialized drug war. I think that something that a lot 66 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:14.960 of people might not know is that the first anti 67 00:04:15.040 --> 00:04:18.560 drug laws in the United States were actually built specifically 68 00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:22.200 to criminalize people of color. Starting with the eighteen seventies, 69 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:25.720 we saw laws targeting Chinese immigrants in California. This is 70 00:04:25.760 --> 00:04:28.320 the first time we saw anti opim laws pop around. 71 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:31.600 Are you saying that basically opium was around and used 72 00:04:32.320 --> 00:04:35.800 once you had the arrival of men and women from 73 00:04:35.880 --> 00:04:38.560 China who were actually working on the railroad, that that's 74 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:39.960 when it becomes a problem. 75 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:40.440 Yeah. 76 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:43.520 So what we started to see around the eighteen hundreds 77 00:04:43.640 --> 00:04:47.800 was that anti drug laws started to pop up, specifically. 78 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:49.440 Created to target certain communities of color. 79 00:04:49.760 --> 00:04:51.800 In the eighteen seventies, we saw the rise of the 80 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:54.680 first anti drug laws, and those drugs were anti opim 81 00:04:54.760 --> 00:04:58.200 laws that were targeted at Chinese immigrants. Soon after that, 82 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:00.680 in the nineteen hundreds, in the South, we saw that 83 00:05:00.760 --> 00:05:04.240 cocaine became illegal and that was related to target African 84 00:05:04.279 --> 00:05:07.919 American men who were using the substance. And then, of 85 00:05:07.960 --> 00:05:10.480 course in the nineteen thirties, you saw that Mexican and 86 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:14.760 Mexican Americans were criminalized for marijuana use. Of course, you know, 87 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:17.800 when we talk about marijuana, we can't ignore the fact 88 00:05:17.880 --> 00:05:21.279 that marijuana itself was a term that was developed to 89 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:26.520 criminalize Mexican Americans and Mexicans who were using the plant. 90 00:05:26.880 --> 00:05:30.280 And this happened with the first individual who was responsible 91 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:31.520 for drug enforcement. 92 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:31.839 In the US. 93 00:05:32.320 --> 00:05:34.960 But these were all intentional decisions by the government to 94 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:39.200 criminalize communities of color, to really deject people who were 95 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:43.000 not wanted in the society. And you know, unfortunately, those 96 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:47.400 policy decisions still play out today because drug use continues 97 00:05:47.440 --> 00:05:50.760 to be something that there's a lot of hysteria around, 98 00:05:50.880 --> 00:05:54.120 and people of color continued to be disproportionately enforced for 99 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:58.160 drug use and drug activity, even though all the data 100 00:05:58.200 --> 00:06:00.880 tells us that black and brown individual jewels use drugs 101 00:06:00.880 --> 00:06:04.039 at similar rates and sometimes even lower rates than white individuals. 102 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:06.880 For a moment, I want to speak specifically about what 103 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:10.200 you just alluded to, which is the term marijuana and 104 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:15.120 the racism behind the rebranding of the cannabis plant as marijuana. 105 00:06:16.120 --> 00:06:18.680 So what's the relationship here. 106 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:22.880 You know, the actual scientific name for the plant that 107 00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:25.360 we know as marijuana is cannabis. 108 00:06:25.640 --> 00:06:27.800 But in the nineteen thirties, the. 109 00:06:27.760 --> 00:06:31.400 Government changed the federal code to label cannabis as marijuana, 110 00:06:31.440 --> 00:06:33.920 and that's when we started to first see these marijuana 111 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:37.080 laws get on the books. And the decision behind that 112 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:41.159 was made because folks wanted to criminalize Mexican Americans and 113 00:06:41.200 --> 00:06:43.719 Mexican migrants who were using the plant. 114 00:06:44.200 --> 00:06:47.039 Right. I was in high school when I watched Reefer Madness. 115 00:06:47.960 --> 00:06:50.559 These high school boys and girls are having a hop 116 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:55.640 at the local soda fountain. Innocently they dance, innocent of 117 00:06:55.680 --> 00:07:01.320 a new and deadly menace lurking behind closed doors, marijuana, 118 00:07:01.880 --> 00:07:04.480 the burning weed when its roots in hell. 119 00:07:05.520 --> 00:07:09.840 All right, So context. Reefer Madness was a super famous 120 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:14.640 propaganda film that was released in the nineteen thirties, and 121 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:19.320 it basically depicts people who are smoking pot as descending 122 00:07:19.520 --> 00:07:26.280 into uncontrollable madness from pot, you know, having strange hallucinations, 123 00:07:26.400 --> 00:07:30.840 even committing murder. So it was pretty much over the top. 124 00:07:32.280 --> 00:07:36.160 Smoking the soul destroying reefer. They find a moment's pleasure, 125 00:07:36.640 --> 00:07:48.320 but at a terrible price debauchery, violence, murder, suicide. 126 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:52.400 The narrative was that if you smoke pot. If you 127 00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:55.800 smoke marijuana, you're going to lose your mind and you 128 00:07:55.840 --> 00:07:57.520 will never, never, never come back. 129 00:07:57.880 --> 00:08:00.920 But also they wanted to make it sound scary. You know, 130 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:03.000 throw a Spanish name on it and it'll make it 131 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:06.080 sound foreign and something that could potentially be dangerous. 132 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:08.840 And unfortunately it kind of worked. 133 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:10.960 Because what we see is that we've had decades of 134 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:12.080 marijuana enforcement. 135 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:15.640 Can we talk about the Nixon administration for a moment. 136 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:18.680 The United States was actually a fascinating place in the 137 00:08:18.760 --> 00:08:23.520 late nineteen sixties when he's elected president. There was the 138 00:08:23.640 --> 00:08:28.240 advent of psychedelic drugs. There was LSD, there was a 139 00:08:28.280 --> 00:08:29.280 lot of marijuana. 140 00:08:29.320 --> 00:08:33.880 America's public enemy Number one in the United States is 141 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:34.800 drug abuse. 142 00:08:35.280 --> 00:08:45.160 There was woodstock, there was protest everywhere. It was very 143 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:47.920 in some ways reminiscent of twenty twenty. What is it 144 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:50.959 that Nixon does and how does this impact what ends 145 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:53.560 up happening regarding drugs in the United States. 146 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:56.800 You know, his administration really coined to the term the 147 00:08:56.840 --> 00:08:59.360 War on Drugs, and what that really meant was that 148 00:08:59.400 --> 00:09:02.239 they were going to really up enforcement. 149 00:09:02.520 --> 00:09:06.160 It is necessary to wage a new all out offense. 150 00:09:06.160 --> 00:09:06.400 Shive. 151 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:10.480 I have asked the Congress to provide the legislative authority 152 00:09:10.640 --> 00:09:14.280 and the funds to fuel as kind of an offensive. 153 00:09:13.920 --> 00:09:17.560 Specifically in communities of color, low income communities, communities that 154 00:09:17.640 --> 00:09:21.719 were agitating as the administration saw, but really communities that 155 00:09:21.760 --> 00:09:23.800 were asking for better conditions and the rights and all 156 00:09:23.840 --> 00:09:26.720 of that. We learned years later that one of his 157 00:09:26.760 --> 00:09:28.880 closest advisors admitted as much. 158 00:09:29.040 --> 00:09:31.720 Forbes reports on a remark by a former Nixon aide 159 00:09:31.880 --> 00:09:34.520 hinting that the war on drugs had a hidden purpose, 160 00:09:34.800 --> 00:09:37.520 that President Nixon saw the drug crackdown as a way 161 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:41.560 to arrest blacks and anti war protesters. Erlkman also claimed 162 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:44.479 that the White House knew they were lying about drugs. 163 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:47.640 So now here's Erlkman. In his own works, he says, 164 00:09:48.040 --> 00:09:51.000 the Nixon campaign in nineteen sixty eight and the Nixon 165 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:54.320 White House after that had two enemies, the anti war 166 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:59.040 left and black people. You understand what I'm saying. We 167 00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:01.040 knew we couldn't make it legal to be either against 168 00:10:01.040 --> 00:10:04.400 the war or black. But by getting the public to 169 00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:08.720 associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and 170 00:10:08.760 --> 00:10:14.200 then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. 171 00:10:14.640 --> 00:10:16.719 That was the first time that we really saw a dedicated, 172 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:20.080 coordinated government response on the drug enforcement side of things, 173 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:23.959 and unfortunately every administration that followed chose to do the 174 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:27.840 same thing, where you know, they overly invested in the 175 00:10:28.160 --> 00:10:31.560 enforcement piece, but neglected and continue to neglect the public 176 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:34.800 health aspect of things. If you are using drugs problematically, 177 00:10:34.880 --> 00:10:39.000 it's really hard to find responsive and effective harm reduction 178 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:41.920 services and treatment. And part of that is because we 179 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:45.400 continue to waste billions of dollars on the enforcement side, 180 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:47.840 and we know that the enforcement side has not reduced 181 00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:51.360 the supply of drugs, has not reduced community safety or 182 00:10:51.400 --> 00:10:55.200 individual safety. People are still, you know, experiencing overdose. What 183 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:58.120 it has done is that it's perpetuated mass criminalization and 184 00:10:58.160 --> 00:11:02.560 mass incarceration. We lead the world in the number of 185 00:11:02.600 --> 00:11:05.320 people that we jail in incarce rate two point three 186 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:08.640 million people behind bars in the freest nation on earth, 187 00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:12.320 and a lot of that is largely due to this 188 00:11:12.400 --> 00:11:16.240 country's obsession and continued investment in the war on drugs. 189 00:11:16.760 --> 00:11:22.680 But now there is increased conversation around decriminalization. So let's 190 00:11:22.800 --> 00:11:27.440 just get our terms clear. So there's decriminalization and there's legalization. 191 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:30.959 So just parse that out for us by RITA. 192 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:36.120 People use decriminalization and legalization interchangeably sometimes, but in fact 193 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:38.440 they don't mean the same thing. So when we're talking 194 00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:42.480 about decriminalizing a substance, we usually mean removing criminal penalties 195 00:11:42.520 --> 00:11:45.880 associated with the drug, And when we're talking about legalization, 196 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:50.000 we usually mean creating some sort of regulated market or 197 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:53.320 a infrastructure to sell the substance and make sure that 198 00:11:53.320 --> 00:11:56.160 people have access to the substance. So, you know, what 199 00:11:56.200 --> 00:11:58.560 we're seeing with marijuana, for example, a lot of states 200 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:02.240 have chosen to decriminalize marijuana. Less have chosen to legalize, 201 00:12:02.280 --> 00:12:05.920 which means, you know, they're fully committed to a regulated market. 202 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:08.720 I want to talk a little bit about what happened 203 00:12:08.760 --> 00:12:14.600 in the last presidential election, because actually several states voted 204 00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:17.600 to decriminalize marijuana. So what's the update. 205 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:22.280 Many states have voted to decriminalize or legalize marijuana, yet 206 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:25.000 it remains a Schedule one drug at the federal level, 207 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:28.439 so there's some dysfunction there. But you know, I think 208 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.240 the interesting thing was that this past November we did 209 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:35.240 see voters come out very strongly in favor of marijuana legalization, 210 00:12:35.800 --> 00:12:37.640 which you know, to people who have been doing this 211 00:12:37.760 --> 00:12:41.040 work wasn't really a surprise because Pollane has told us 212 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:43.800 for you know, at least the last few years, that 213 00:12:43.880 --> 00:12:47.840 this is becoming an increasingly popular issue, with support across 214 00:12:47.880 --> 00:12:51.720 party lines, across demographic groups. So, you know, I think 215 00:12:51.760 --> 00:12:54.000 this is one of those cases where unfortunately the federal 216 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:56.200 government is just behind where the people are. 217 00:12:56.840 --> 00:12:59.960 Let's talk about, for example, the benefits in terms of decriminalization. 218 00:13:00.920 --> 00:13:03.840 Can you make the argument to somebody who's just saying, 219 00:13:03.880 --> 00:13:07.840 there's no reason why we would ever decriminalize any kind 220 00:13:07.880 --> 00:13:11.560 of drugs, So what are the benefits in your view? 221 00:13:12.400 --> 00:13:16.480 So decriminalizing is really important because it removes the stigma 222 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:19.120 away from people who use drugs. The fact of the 223 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:21.920 matter is that they will if they are using drugs problematically, 224 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:25.000 they will continue to do so. Instead, we should be 225 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:29.760 focused on ensuring that people who use drugs problematically and 226 00:13:29.800 --> 00:13:33.520 want access to treatment have access to treatment. Taken in an 227 00:13:33.520 --> 00:13:37.679 approach where we decriminalize drugs will have a lot of benefits, 228 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:42.280 including making sure that we no longer stigmatize people who 229 00:13:42.679 --> 00:13:43.920 may need access to treatment. 230 00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:48.760 What states have decriminalized or legalized marijuana. 231 00:13:48.920 --> 00:13:51.120 So here in DC where I live, for example, we 232 00:13:51.160 --> 00:13:55.520 saw that a measure to decriminalize psychedelics was approved. In Oregon, 233 00:13:55.640 --> 00:13:59.040 voters took a really bold measure by approving Measure one ten, 234 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:02.760 which is the first all drug decriminalization measure in the 235 00:14:02.920 --> 00:14:03.640 entire country. 236 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:07.599 It is a huge sledge hammer to the cornerstone of 237 00:14:07.640 --> 00:14:08.560 the war on drugs. 238 00:14:08.640 --> 00:14:10.640 And then in addition to all of that, we saw 239 00:14:10.800 --> 00:14:15.160 voters in Arizona and New Jersey, Montana, South Dakota all 240 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:18.480 past measures to legalize marijuana for adult use. And then 241 00:14:18.880 --> 00:14:21.360 of course in Mississippi and South Dakota, we even saw 242 00:14:21.680 --> 00:14:25.400 medical marijuana win on the ballot. And I think some 243 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:27.440 of those states might be a surprise to some people, 244 00:14:27.640 --> 00:14:30.720 especially because some of them are more conservative or tend 245 00:14:30.760 --> 00:14:31.560 to vote read. 246 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:35.000 There was somebody in your organization that said that the 247 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:39.160 vote in Oregon was the biggest blow to again the 248 00:14:39.160 --> 00:14:43.240 so called war on drugs so far. So what do 249 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:43.880 you mean by that? 250 00:14:44.560 --> 00:14:48.720 Yeah, So the vote in Oregon was really exciting for 251 00:14:48.760 --> 00:14:51.880 our organization and I think for this country because I 252 00:14:51.920 --> 00:14:55.120 think it's an example of the first time that we 253 00:14:55.280 --> 00:14:58.760 see a state emphasizing a public health approach to a 254 00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:01.120 drug use rather than a punitive approach. 255 00:15:01.160 --> 00:15:03.480 In the criminal legal system, which is what we're used to. 256 00:15:04.400 --> 00:15:07.440 So the organ measure, Measure one ten not only eliminates 257 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:11.080 criminal penalties for possession of drugs for personal use, but 258 00:15:11.160 --> 00:15:14.240 it also increases access to health and harm reduction services, 259 00:15:14.280 --> 00:15:18.800 including housing and establishing addiction recovery services. And they do 260 00:15:18.920 --> 00:15:22.640 this by using money that's already in existence, so revenue 261 00:15:22.640 --> 00:15:23.880 from the marijuana. 262 00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:25.240 Regulatory scheme that they have in Oregon. 263 00:15:25.880 --> 00:15:28.960 And also they use savings from the criminal justice system 264 00:15:29.040 --> 00:15:33.040 from reduced arrests, prosecution, and incarceration for drug use and 265 00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:36.800 repurpose that money for harm reduction services and treatment. 266 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:39.320 So we are excited about that model. 267 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:41.640 You know, we want to see something similar to marijuana 268 00:15:41.640 --> 00:15:45.840 where you saw one state past marijuana legalization and DCRIM 269 00:15:45.880 --> 00:15:47.640 and then you saw other states do the same things. 270 00:15:47.680 --> 00:15:50.000 So we're hoping that this measure will have the same 271 00:15:50.040 --> 00:15:52.720 type of domino effect around all drug dcrim. 272 00:15:53.400 --> 00:15:57.720 So is that the reason why there is increasing conversations 273 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:00.880 and frankly movement towards decriminalization. 274 00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:03.240 I do think more people are starting to see this 275 00:16:03.280 --> 00:16:06.440 as a public health issue rather than a criminal justice issue. 276 00:16:06.640 --> 00:16:09.160 People are starting to realize the harms that come with 277 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:11.960 criminal legal system involvement, and a lot of that is 278 00:16:12.040 --> 00:16:14.280 due to the fact that you know, in my opinion, 279 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:17.240 a lot of directly impacted people are being more vocal 280 00:16:17.280 --> 00:16:19.800 about their experiences with the criminal legal system, and I 281 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:22.680 do think that is changing hearts and minds. I often 282 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:25.560 compare it to what we saw in the immigration movement 283 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:28.840 with Dreamers, where people who are undocumented have you know, 284 00:16:28.920 --> 00:16:31.520 bravely come out and said, I'm undocumented, this is who 285 00:16:31.560 --> 00:16:34.920 I am, this is my experience, and that's great because 286 00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:37.880 you know it, I think opens people's hearts and minds 287 00:16:37.920 --> 00:16:40.040 to a different perspective and it kind of takes the 288 00:16:40.040 --> 00:16:42.160 boogeyman out of the room and they see, Wow, this 289 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:44.640 person is just like me. And we've seen the same 290 00:16:44.680 --> 00:16:47.720 thing happen with people have had criminal legal system involvement 291 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:51.080 and people who use drugs. They're really owning the narrative 292 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:54.720 and educating lawmakers and the public about these issues. And 293 00:16:54.760 --> 00:16:56.640 like I said, I really do think that that is 294 00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:00.360 leading to a cultural shift that we're seeing around drug policy. 295 00:17:00.880 --> 00:17:02.640 Let's talk a little bit about the work that you're 296 00:17:02.680 --> 00:17:07.000 doing your particular organization. So what are you advocating for 297 00:17:07.800 --> 00:17:10.840 and how are you advocating for this. 298 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:15.119 My organization has been around for the past couple of decades, 299 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:17.800 and when it started out, it was really focused on 300 00:17:17.960 --> 00:17:21.080 just changing the narrative around marijuana. And it's taken two 301 00:17:21.080 --> 00:17:23.159 decades to do that. So just to give you an 302 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:26.240 idea of how long this work really takes. But really, 303 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:29.440 the Drug Policy Alliance is focused on ending the war 304 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:33.480 on drugs and ending the harms that come from drug prohibition, 305 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:37.360 because we believe that drug prohibition is not smart policy, 306 00:17:37.600 --> 00:17:39.800 is not a public health oriented policy. 307 00:17:40.280 --> 00:17:41.400 Our agenda is. 308 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:44.960 Really to end the war on drugs, decriminalize drugs, and 309 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:46.960 you know the other side of that is making sure 310 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:51.480 that people have access to treatment and harm reduction services 311 00:17:51.520 --> 00:17:52.720 if they need it and want it. 312 00:17:56.520 --> 00:17:59.600 Coming up on, let you know us say how decriminalization 313 00:18:00.080 --> 00:18:03.879 might actually help in the middle of an overdose epidemic. 314 00:18:04.320 --> 00:19:02.400 Stay with us not but yes, hey, we're back. Before 315 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:06.240 the break, we were talking with Mariita Betez, director of 316 00:19:06.320 --> 00:19:09.960 the Office of National Affairs at the Drug Policy Alliance, 317 00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:13.960 and we were talking about the racial history behind drug enforcement. 318 00:19:14.280 --> 00:19:19.080 We're going to get back to that conversation now. So 319 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:21.480 I love the fact that you've it's d crim so 320 00:19:21.600 --> 00:19:24.080 in the movement y'all call it DCRIM. Yes, we know that, 321 00:19:24.800 --> 00:19:26.960 But Mariita, there are people who are going to be 322 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:29.280 hearing this whe are just I can feel it already. 323 00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:33.280 There is going to be terror everywhere for them. They 324 00:19:33.320 --> 00:19:36.439 are just going to think, oh my god, this is 325 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:38.560 going to change everything. I need to move out of 326 00:19:38.600 --> 00:19:42.000 this state. I can't raise kids all drugs are decriminalized 327 00:19:42.040 --> 00:19:45.560 in my state. So can you just talk to that fear. 328 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:50.240 The problem is that enforcement is not fair or equal 329 00:19:50.320 --> 00:19:54.480 in this country. Enforcement of drug use false disproportionately on 330 00:19:54.560 --> 00:19:57.240 poor people and people of color, people who are over 331 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:02.840 exposed to policing and surveillance, and that just perpetuates more 332 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:05.640 crime in fact, because now you have cops who are 333 00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:08.720 out here focusing on people who are you know, in 334 00:20:08.760 --> 00:20:11.320 possession of drugs, which you know means that they're not 335 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:14.640 focusing on more violent crimes, you know, crimes that are 336 00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:18.320 probably about higher impact and higher magnitude. And you know, 337 00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:21.520 with decriminalization also comes the removal of stigma that I 338 00:20:21.560 --> 00:20:23.960 talked about earlier, and I think that's so important because 339 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:26.280 you know, we don't want to drive people into the 340 00:20:26.280 --> 00:20:29.760 black market or underground that's actually really unsafe for a 341 00:20:29.840 --> 00:20:30.720 number of reasons. 342 00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:33.920 One, we know that the black market perpetuates. 343 00:20:33.320 --> 00:20:37.640 More harmon communities, but also an underground market might mean 344 00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:40.000 that somebody is using drugs that they might not know 345 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:43.160 what's in there, so it could expose people to overdose. 346 00:20:43.560 --> 00:20:46.080 But we have to think about and really analyze how 347 00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:50.320 our enforcement of drugs is actually pushing those overdose numbers up. 348 00:20:51.080 --> 00:20:54.480 So I can also hear people saying, wait a second, 349 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:59.879 we have people who are increasingly addicted to opioids to men, 350 00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:02.399 So how is it that you want to have the 351 00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:06.240 conversation about what you call dcrim in the middle of 352 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:09.600 people also having a conversation around massive addiction in the 353 00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:11.359 United States, addiction to drugs. 354 00:21:11.600 --> 00:21:16.760 So the criminalization of substances can actually push addiction and 355 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:20.360 overdose rates to a different level. I'll take the opioid 356 00:21:20.359 --> 00:21:22.920 crisis for example. We've seen a lot of opiated overdoses. 357 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:25.600 So what we're actually seeing is that people are getting 358 00:21:25.600 --> 00:21:26.320 mixed drugs and. 359 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:27.240 Things that aren't safe. 360 00:21:27.520 --> 00:21:30.080 They go to, you know, the neighborhood drug dealer who 361 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:35.280 may have mixed their substance with fetanyl. So pushing people 362 00:21:35.280 --> 00:21:38.240 into the black market is just something that doesn't make sense. 363 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.040 From a policy or safety point of view. 364 00:21:40.600 --> 00:21:42.800 It's kind of like the issue of abortion. It's going 365 00:21:42.800 --> 00:21:44.879 to happen whether you like it or not. It's going 366 00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:47.119 to happen, and so the question is how do you 367 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:49.959 kind of manage it and with what narrative do you 368 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:52.600 manage it? And you feel like there's a narrative change here. 369 00:21:52.840 --> 00:21:55.480 Yeah, So I actually like that example that you gave 370 00:21:55.600 --> 00:21:58.320 because I often think about this as like, you know, 371 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:01.399 when you talk about sex education and when you preach 372 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:03.359 abstinence only, what do you have You know, you have 373 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:06.919 people who make decisions not being informed or educated on 374 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:11.639 the issue, which actually could increase unwanted pregnancies. So, you know, 375 00:22:11.760 --> 00:22:14.080 I use that as an example because I think we 376 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:16.600 see the same thing with drugs. People will continue to 377 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:19.200 do drugs. We should make sure that they have all 378 00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:22.080 of the resources and information at their disposal and are 379 00:22:22.080 --> 00:22:24.600 really making informed decisions. 380 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:30.200 So that leads us to an entire country that basically 381 00:22:30.280 --> 00:22:33.760 went the way of Oregon, and that's Portugal. They made 382 00:22:33.760 --> 00:22:39.000 the decision to decriminalize all drugs. So what happened in Portugal? 383 00:22:39.320 --> 00:22:40.280 What are the lessons? 384 00:22:40.800 --> 00:22:44.520 So Portugal enacted drug decriminalization in two thousand and one, 385 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.080 and you know, they were really the first to do 386 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:51.280 it on such a large scale, so obviously everybody was 387 00:22:51.280 --> 00:22:53.639 watching to see what would happen, and what we know 388 00:22:53.760 --> 00:22:57.400 now decades later is that it worked. I think there's 389 00:22:57.400 --> 00:22:59.879 a lot of lessons to be drawn from the Portugal model. 390 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:02.240 For one, we saw that the number of people who 391 00:23:02.280 --> 00:23:07.040 are voluntarily entering treatment has skyrocketed. We know that overdose 392 00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:11.800 deaths and HIV infections have also plummeted, Incarceration for drug 393 00:23:11.840 --> 00:23:15.720 related defenses has decreased, and the rates of problematic and 394 00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:19.040 adolescent drug use has fallen. But you know, I think 395 00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:21.600 something that's really important to take away from Portugal is 396 00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:24.919 not only did they decriminalize, but they also really truly 397 00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:28.280 invested in harm reduction treatment and services. So it's not 398 00:23:28.320 --> 00:23:30.639 just taking away the criminal legal aspect of it, but 399 00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:34.000 it's also making sure that people have access to treatment. 400 00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:35.560 That's really critical here. 401 00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:38.800