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<v Speaker 1>Dear listener, before we start, a warning there's gonna be

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<v Speaker 1>some explicit language in this episode. Okay, here we go. Well, hello, hello, Hello,

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<v Speaker 1>Missa Halita's Cheese May. I'm I hope you're ready and

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<v Speaker 1>rested for your next assignment.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, we were literally born ready for this.

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<v Speaker 1>Well that's good to know, because I think this cheesema

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<v Speaker 1>conversation is going to take.

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<v Speaker 3>Us on a wild ride.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Miss Guetida's Elisa and Monica, you are the

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<v Speaker 1>angels of Cheese. Me a La Charlie's Angels. Now, off

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<v Speaker 1>you go, my little angels of cheese May from Vuduro

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<v Speaker 1>Media and PRX. It's Latino Usa. I'm Maria noo Hoosa

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<v Speaker 1>today el cheese me why we love it, why we're

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<v Speaker 1>ashamed of it, and why we won't stop gossiping anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm here speaking with our Latino USA fellows, Elisa

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<v Speaker 1>Bayena and Monica Mores Garcia, and I think I have

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty good idea as to why you brought me

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<v Speaker 1>here today.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it has to do with it.

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<v Speaker 4>Jeez me, how did you know?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it's the only thing that you girls have been

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<v Speaker 3>talking about, is it? Cheees me?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it all started seven months ago on our first

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<v Speaker 2>day as Latina USA Fellows. It was after our first

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<v Speaker 2>team meeting, and because we're working remotely, I'm in southern California,

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<v Speaker 2>Elisa is in Miami, we jumped on a Google meet

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<v Speaker 2>and almost immediately we began cheese manimal or how we

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<v Speaker 2>say in English gossiping.

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<v Speaker 4>We realized that we were kindred spirits and we immediately

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<v Speaker 4>felt comfortable with each other because we felt like we

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<v Speaker 4>were taking a risk.

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<v Speaker 3>A risk you mean by talking to each.

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<v Speaker 2>Other, yes, to talk about souda what else?

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<v Speaker 5>Oh?

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<v Speaker 3>Because it was clearly a cheese man Okay.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, it's just something that we fell into without

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<v Speaker 4>even trying. So there we are. We're feeling bonded, we're

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<v Speaker 4>feeling connected, and then I started to feel guilty. I

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<v Speaker 4>think it has something to do with the fact that

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<v Speaker 4>I was raised Catholic. I went to Catholic school for

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<v Speaker 4>fourteen years, so I was taught from a very early

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<v Speaker 4>age that gossip is harmful and a moral But I

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<v Speaker 4>still did it all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Elisa Maria, can I be brave yet controversial?

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<v Speaker 4>Obviously?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I didn't feel that guilty.

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<v Speaker 6>Choose me on the butter coworkers.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, we didn't say anything bad about them. With some context,

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<v Speaker 2>I was a cousin in the family that had a

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<v Speaker 2>bond of cheese may and me being me, I've always

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<v Speaker 2>handled those situations by doubling down. So I'm was trying

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<v Speaker 2>to make some judgment and was like, I know, you

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<v Speaker 2>moved out to be with your boyfriend. I would be like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and a girlfriend too, Like if they wanted the sunt

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<v Speaker 2>I was going to give it to that.

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<v Speaker 4>So, Maria, what is your relationship to cheese me?

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<v Speaker 3>I think, like you, I kind of love it chees me.

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<v Speaker 1>I have very specific memories about sitting with my mom

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<v Speaker 1>in the back of our green station wagon with all

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<v Speaker 1>six of us driving to Mexico every year from Chicago

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<v Speaker 1>in the middle of winter, and the closer we got

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<v Speaker 1>to Mexico, the closer it was going to be the

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<v Speaker 1>moment when we could say buen o Mama, ill chees me.

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<v Speaker 1>And so it became a way of like really embodying

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<v Speaker 1>my mexicanness, you know, because I was growing up as

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<v Speaker 1>a kid in Chicago and it was a way that

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<v Speaker 1>I was bonding with my mom.

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<v Speaker 2>Hmm, what I'm hearing is that cheese me is a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit more complicated than we realized it is.

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<v Speaker 3>I think I think cheese may is complicated.

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<v Speaker 4>Even though cheeseman, though comes so naturally to us, we've

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<v Speaker 4>actually been struggling to define cheese may. So we wanted

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<v Speaker 4>to ask you, Mariya, how would you define cheese may?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, if you had to translate it, the simplest way

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<v Speaker 1>is to say, it's gossip. But there's something about cheesemay

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<v Speaker 1>which is about storytelling. It's something that is very present

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<v Speaker 1>in our reality as Latinos and Latinas in the United States,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think that's the way we're looking at it,

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<v Speaker 1>or at least that's the way I think you're going

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<v Speaker 1>to be looking at it.

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<v Speaker 3>In this conversation.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, you've literally read our minds.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, it's hard to define because cheese may can

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<v Speaker 4>mean different things to different people in different contexts. But

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<v Speaker 4>if we're thinking about cheese may on a very basic level,

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<v Speaker 4>it's talking about someone in their absence. So you're sharing

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<v Speaker 4>information that you don't necessarily know to be true, but

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<v Speaker 4>the tea is just too hot for you to not

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<v Speaker 4>spill immediately.

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<v Speaker 2>In that first conversation we had, we were already asking

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<v Speaker 2>all those questions, is it good?

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<v Speaker 6>Is it bad?

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<v Speaker 2>How can it be so fun when it's so bad?

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<v Speaker 2>And is she's not the same as rumor?

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<v Speaker 4>And I remember I was being very dramatic with Monica

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<v Speaker 4>and I was telling her that I really believe sometimes

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<v Speaker 4>that I'm evil at my core because I love to

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<v Speaker 4>chease me ad.

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<v Speaker 3>Dude, evil at the core? Oh my god, what did

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<v Speaker 3>the mong Has do to you?

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<v Speaker 2>Mi?

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<v Speaker 3>No, No, that's a bit much.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So Alisa and I clearly had different feelings about

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<v Speaker 2>cheese men, but how we were still able to recognize

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<v Speaker 2>that it was a language we both spoke, and despite

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<v Speaker 2>growing up in different places and belonging to different communities,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Mexican and Salvadoran and lisas Cuban American, cheesema was

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<v Speaker 2>something that we sort of innately understood how to do together,

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<v Speaker 2>and we felt like that was probably really special.

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<v Speaker 4>We could already feel that as Latina's gossip isn't just gossip,

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<v Speaker 4>it's an identity, it's a way of life.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, to get some answers to some of our questions,

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<v Speaker 2>we need hardcore data. So in the name of cheesema science,

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<v Speaker 2>we're conducting an experiment where we create a chiesemy and

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<v Speaker 2>see how far it'll spread. A cheese may about you,

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<v Speaker 2>Maria me, oh.

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<v Speaker 4>M hm, it's going to be something harmless, but something crazy.

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<v Speaker 4>As you know, it's actually harder than you would think

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<v Speaker 4>because we've been workshopping a few ideas with you.

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<v Speaker 7>Maria was in a dr for so long because she

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<v Speaker 7>was filming a movie with Linn Men Mel Miranda, and

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<v Speaker 7>she's going to be the next star, like a sexy

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<v Speaker 7>movie Hustlers or something.

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<v Speaker 1>What I thought you were going to say was Maria

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<v Speaker 1>was in the Dominican Republic so long. We think she

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<v Speaker 1>just had a baby. Okay, well I want to hear

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<v Speaker 1>the other ideas.

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<v Speaker 2>We didn't have any other ideas. Those were all of

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<v Speaker 2>our ideas.

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<v Speaker 4>But I think I have something, Madia. So you know

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<v Speaker 4>how you have this big, bouncy, voluminous hair.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, it's all about the hair and the hoops.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, so if we see it, it's always done up.

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<v Speaker 4>But if we don't see it, it's always wrapped up

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<v Speaker 4>in a turmine. So how about we make people believe

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<v Speaker 4>that your big bouncy locks actually don't belong to you.

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<v Speaker 4>It's not your real hair. It's a wig.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I have my tricks as to how I

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<v Speaker 1>make it voluminous, but I could see how that could

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<v Speaker 1>potentially work.

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<v Speaker 8>Mm hmm.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is what we're gonna do. Since we have

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<v Speaker 2>more questions and answers, I think we're gonna go on

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit of a cheeze mquest. And to do that,

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<v Speaker 2>we're gonna have to speak to some cheese my experts

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<v Speaker 2>from different fields to find out why cheese met is

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<v Speaker 2>so central to our lives as Latinas.

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<v Speaker 4>And finally, we're gonna get a little bit sneaky and

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<v Speaker 4>talk to the team to see if this wig cheese

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<v Speaker 4>met lights up.

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<v Speaker 1>Like Firela when Monica, so you have your assignment. You've

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<v Speaker 1>pried a lot out of me regarding cheesema so far,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm very intrigada.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm using the cheese my voice.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm very intrigued about what you're gonna come up with

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<v Speaker 1>in your journey into a cheese mes. So off you

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<v Speaker 1>go and I'll see you on the other side, Maso.

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<v Speaker 4>When we first set off on our cheese mequest, Monica

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<v Speaker 4>and I realized that we had something else in common.

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<v Speaker 4>We're both huge fans of the Real Housewives guys.

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<v Speaker 9>I've heard that and someone did at this table has

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<v Speaker 9>been talking about how her bad Gizelle, you tacky is hell,

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<v Speaker 9>you didn't come as a friend at all.

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<v Speaker 10>You're done.

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<v Speaker 4>So it's a reality TV franchise on Bravo that follows

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<v Speaker 4>the everyday lives of wealthy women from different areas. So

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<v Speaker 4>think lots of dinner parties, workout classes, international vacations, shopping

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<v Speaker 4>trips obviously, but of course they look really good and

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<v Speaker 4>really expensive, very expensive.

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<v Speaker 2>And while Lisa and I were watching the new season

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<v Speaker 2>of the Real Housewives of Miami, what are you talking about?

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<v Speaker 3>You know where?

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<v Speaker 4>We had an epiphany. We thought maybe we love Housewives

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<v Speaker 4>because chiefment is everything on the show. We realized it's

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<v Speaker 4>used as a narrative device, so it creates storylines and

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<v Speaker 4>builds so much tension that a screaming match is the

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<v Speaker 4>most appropriate form of conflict resolution.

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<v Speaker 2>So we set up a conversation with two Real Housewives

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<v Speaker 2>of Miami, Marisol Patton and Alexia Chevarria.

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<v Speaker 9>So today starring on this show is my best friend

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<v Speaker 9>Alexi Cheria Santra Mohito, carrier of the Real Housewives of Miami.

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<v Speaker 10>Thank you for that beautiful introduction. And on the other side,

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<v Speaker 10>we have my best friend Marisol.

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<v Speaker 4>We want to set the scene really quick. Marisola is

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<v Speaker 4>laying on her couch like horizontally with a beat face

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<v Speaker 4>and a high pony, and Alexia is sitting in the

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<v Speaker 4>living room of her palatial two story penthouse with a

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<v Speaker 4>beach view.

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<v Speaker 2>There have only been a few Latinas across the Real

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<v Speaker 2>Housewives franchise, except on the Real Housewives of Miami, and

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<v Speaker 2>as we were watching the show, it became obvious that

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<v Speaker 2>there were parallels between how She's mosas and how housewives

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<v Speaker 2>are perceived as they're scene as tacky, simple minded and flamboyant.

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<v Speaker 10>Should I introduce you?

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<v Speaker 6>No, No, because the only thing that we are not

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<v Speaker 6>is j Molza.

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<v Speaker 11>I know that because we live in Miami and Pueblo

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<v Speaker 11>met CenTra exactly I like to call it. We share information, yes,

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<v Speaker 11>and when it's amongst us good friends, it's not cheesemay,

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<v Speaker 11>It's just information and we need to be educated.

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<v Speaker 4>So do you think that Latina women have a reputation

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<v Speaker 4>of gossiping more than non Latinas.

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<v Speaker 10>I know they're all terrible, I know, but she's asking

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<v Speaker 10>if you think they have a reputation. I think yes.

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<v Speaker 10>I think we're stereotyped because it comes from history, like from.

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<v Speaker 6>Back in the day, more than gring us.

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<v Speaker 8>Yea.

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<v Speaker 10>At the end of the day, if you're a woman,

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<v Speaker 10>you're a chimosa. Oh wait, but there's meg. I know

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<v Speaker 10>some men get so much emoso it's crazy, Like when

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<v Speaker 10>there's a guy that's such amoso, like be careful, like

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<v Speaker 10>they're like the worst.

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<v Speaker 2>They are the worst. So why do you think that

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<v Speaker 2>cheese may is so addicting?

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<v Speaker 9>I think it's a mindless conversation. It's the easiest conversation

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<v Speaker 9>for anyone to have. You're not talking about politics, religion.

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<v Speaker 9>You don't have to be educated to chimad Anybody across

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<v Speaker 9>the board can make a comment about somebody else and

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<v Speaker 9>another person will jump in and they get into it.

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<v Speaker 10>Right and you know, all so white. It's so easy

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<v Speaker 10>because you're not talking or chimiando about yourself. You're doing

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<v Speaker 10>about somebody else. So it's so easy to talk about

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<v Speaker 10>somebody you don't even know. That's why we all do it.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm staying quiet.

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<v Speaker 9>Stop saying we all do it like you're waiting for

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<v Speaker 9>me to jump in.

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<v Speaker 6>Haha.

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<v Speaker 4>Alexia's family drama was carrying this last season. Her now

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<v Speaker 4>husband Todd, who she said is the first gringo she's

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<v Speaker 4>ever kissed. By the way, had a huge blowout with

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<v Speaker 4>her son.

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<v Speaker 3>What I say that you're a loser.

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<v Speaker 8>Yeah, but you're gonna wind up in jail.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, you.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't get Alexias said herself that this fight was the

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<v Speaker 2>worst moment in her life, and it's out there for

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<v Speaker 2>anyone in the world to watch and form an opinion

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<v Speaker 2>about Alexia.

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<v Speaker 4>You've been a reality TV star and a public figure

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<v Speaker 4>you're for over a decade now. You could say that

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<v Speaker 4>part of your job is to humiliate yourself on TV

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<v Speaker 4>because you're exposing your real life drama as plot points.

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<v Speaker 4>What was that like this last season?

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<v Speaker 10>For me, It hasn't been humiliating at all. As a

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<v Speaker 10>matter of fact, I think it's been therapeutic and healing

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<v Speaker 10>because these were cheesemads that were always said about me

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<v Speaker 10>and my family, and now I'm like, you know what, guys,

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<v Speaker 10>it's my story, not achievement anymore. Like this is what

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<v Speaker 10>it is, you know, up to the point in my

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<v Speaker 10>life that I don't give a shit. You know, I'm

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<v Speaker 10>in my fifties and I really don't give a shit

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<v Speaker 10>you think about me or my family, I know who

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<v Speaker 10>I am. This is my time now to say it

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<v Speaker 10>how it is and share it with the world and

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<v Speaker 10>hopefully me being an inspiration for people not to be ashamed,

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<v Speaker 10>to be proud of who you are and of your

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<v Speaker 10>life experiences and to learn from them. And you know what,

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<v Speaker 10>sometimes you got to put those cheesements to rest.

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<v Speaker 6>You can't let other people control your achievement.

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<v Speaker 11>Right, Alexia, Right, exactly, that's your story.

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<v Speaker 4>So there's something else we wanted to ask you about.

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<v Speaker 4>We wanted to come to you for some professional advice.

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<v Speaker 9>Yes, Oh, because we're the expert chief most us that

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<v Speaker 9>you have.

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<v Speaker 6>To come to us.

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<v Speaker 10>We have a lot of experience and get the demo,

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<v Speaker 10>so yes, tell us. How can we help you?

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<v Speaker 4>So we started a cheese may about our boss.

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<v Speaker 2>That her hair isn't her real hair, it's a wig.

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<v Speaker 6>A wig.

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<v Speaker 9>That's boring, Feluca, that's not a good one. Why do

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<v Speaker 9>you say she has like a fake leg or something?

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<v Speaker 9>Does she wear a lot of pants?

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<v Speaker 10>Well, trying to keep their job. Remember it's their boss. Okay,

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<v Speaker 10>it depends you on the achievement, depends on who the

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<v Speaker 10>person is. But this is like their boss, so they

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<v Speaker 10>can't be. You know they can't take it overboardon.

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<v Speaker 6>I have an idea. How you make this fun.

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<v Speaker 9>You tell her we're gonna start saying you have a

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<v Speaker 9>fake leg, start limping around the office.

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<v Speaker 6>Let's see how many people fall into the trap. I

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<v Speaker 6>don't know. You got to come up with something more

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<v Speaker 6>exciting than a beluga. Oh my god, I would never.

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<v Speaker 9>Let me tell you someth The best geam I think

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<v Speaker 9>is when you look someone in the eyes and you

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<v Speaker 9>sound convincing.

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<v Speaker 10>Ooh, you sound like an expert, Marazon, and then you

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<v Speaker 10>didn't want me to call you the team Massa.

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<v Speaker 6>I just play one on TV.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up on Latino USA, our Cheese may Angels continue

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<v Speaker 1>their investigation into how gossip has shaped their identity as

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<v Speaker 1>Latinas and the steaks surrounding their cheese may start to

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<v Speaker 1>build as they travel further into a Cheese Mossa's universe.

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<v Speaker 3>Stay with us, Yes Hey, We're back.

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<v Speaker 1>And before the break, Latino USA fellows Elisa Bayena and

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<v Speaker 1>Monica Moreles Garcia launched their quest to understand the significance

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<v Speaker 1>of cheesemay or gossip in the US Latino experience. They

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<v Speaker 1>did so by talking to some professional cheese mosas. The

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<v Speaker 1>Real Housewives of Miami Here are Elisa and Monica.

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<v Speaker 3>Once again.

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<v Speaker 4>Monica. The Miami Housewives really wanted us to form with

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<v Speaker 4>our cheesemay experiment.

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<v Speaker 2>Fake lag Aside, they did have some interesting points. The

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<v Speaker 2>best cheese ment does require a little bit of work,

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<v Speaker 2>and in order for our cheese me to be convincing,

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<v Speaker 2>there has to be a body of supporting evidence so

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<v Speaker 2>that it fits into a larger story.

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<v Speaker 4>I think that I know someone who's really good at

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<v Speaker 4>getting straight to the source, and like the Housewives, she's

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<v Speaker 4>also paid to chease me out on TV.

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<v Speaker 12>Hi, everybody, I am Lelana Vascas. Formerly I was the

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<v Speaker 12>anchor for E News. I've been at Access Hollywood. I

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<v Speaker 12>spent seven years at the Today Show, and I think

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<v Speaker 12>most people really know me from my years as a

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<v Speaker 12>style expert on daytime TV.

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<v Speaker 4>So monicatt you know how. I graduated from college in

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<v Speaker 4>the pandemic, which means that I also entered the workforce virtually.

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<v Speaker 4>So I was feeling really isolated and every day during

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<v Speaker 4>my lunch break, I would watch Daily Pop.

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<v Speaker 8>This is just talk, Okay, that's just talk, quarantee.

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<v Speaker 6>You know, I think it could be possibility.

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<v Speaker 4>I would describe it as a live goss ob session

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<v Speaker 4>where hosts are delivering and reacting to celebrity news, and

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<v Speaker 4>Leana was often a co host during this time.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm not a doctor, I'm only a cheesema scientist,

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<v Speaker 2>but it sounds to me like you had high levels

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<v Speaker 2>of chiosement deficiency that you weren't getting it in the office,

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<v Speaker 2>so you had to get it from TV.

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<v Speaker 12>When it comes to entertainment news, there's two different types

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<v Speaker 12>of stories.

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<v Speaker 13>There is a story that always has to be.

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<v Speaker 12>Led with allegedly, and then there is the stories that

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<v Speaker 12>are confirmed. As a journalist, I take that very very

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<v Speaker 12>seriously when I report entertainment news, but as somebody who

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<v Speaker 12>loves pop culture, I also love to talk and speculate

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<v Speaker 12>about stories that need to be led with the word allegedly,

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<v Speaker 12>and they're both equally fun to tell. But the ones

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<v Speaker 12>people definitely want to talk about are the allegedly stories.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, I love those.

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<v Speaker 12>But I do believe where there is smoke, there is fire,

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<v Speaker 12>and you just have to do the work to find

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<v Speaker 12>the fire.

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<v Speaker 2>Ooh, so, why is celebrity cheese man such big business?

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<v Speaker 12>I think people sometimes forget that these celebrities are true brands,

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<v Speaker 12>and there is a machine that is there to protect

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<v Speaker 12>that brand, and they want to control the narrative.

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<v Speaker 13>They want to really control when.

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<v Speaker 12>A story breaks, how it breaks, how much you know

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<v Speaker 12>about that story.

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<v Speaker 13>And it's not just them, the media is also in

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<v Speaker 13>on it.

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<v Speaker 12>I've gotten to call ten minutes before I'm about to

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<v Speaker 12>go on air. That's like, we're killing the story because

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00:19:36.800 --> 00:19:39.840
<v Speaker 12>so and so's person called and they don't want to

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00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:42.640
<v Speaker 12>talk about it, or you got this sound by an interview.

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<v Speaker 12>They want it gone and I'm like, well, I don't

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<v Speaker 12>want it gone. They're like, right, well, we've got to

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<v Speaker 12>play the game. What you're hearing is a water down

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00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:52.119
<v Speaker 12>version because you're talking about millions of not billions of

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<v Speaker 12>dollars at stake here.

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<v Speaker 4>So just like there's big tech, there's big cheese.

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<v Speaker 13>Mead, I mean, is what makes the world go round.

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<v Speaker 2>So like, which celebrity does the best job of curating

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<v Speaker 2>and mitigating their Cheesemay.

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00:20:09.800 --> 00:20:14.720
<v Speaker 12>Jlo and a Rod You're talking like exponential coverage.

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<v Speaker 6>She's one of the biggest stars in the world.

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<v Speaker 5>And he is one of the biggest athletes of all time.

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<v Speaker 6>Could the two of them now be striking up a new.

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<v Speaker 12>Romance, amazing for business, good for both of them. I

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<v Speaker 12>think times there were people like, oh, this is great

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<v Speaker 12>for him.

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<v Speaker 6>It was great for him.

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<v Speaker 12>It was great for her because I always think that

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<v Speaker 12>when you take two A list stars and put them together,

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<v Speaker 12>you get a double A.

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<v Speaker 13>They blended the families.

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<v Speaker 12>Jlo was co parenting with Mark Anthony and then they

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<v Speaker 12>were at church with a Rod. So it's like two

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<v Speaker 12>massive celebrities in their own right, combine them together for

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<v Speaker 12>like superstar power, and then they like the press.

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<v Speaker 13>Oh my god. It was a win win for everybody.

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<v Speaker 2>If you add Jlo and a Rod's net worths, it's

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<v Speaker 2>over half a billion dollars. They've invested in luxury, real estate,

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<v Speaker 2>tech startups. Jlo has her own skincare line, Jlo Beauty.

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<v Speaker 2>And just as they sold that power couple narrative to

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<v Speaker 2>the public, that was probably the same story they were

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<v Speaker 2>selling to their investors.

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<v Speaker 4>Mm hmm. And after her breakup with a Rod, Jaylo

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<v Speaker 4>got back together with Ben Affleck and now they're engaged.

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<v Speaker 4>But how do you think that this girl announced that

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<v Speaker 4>she's engaged to Ben Affleck? M how by posting a

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<v Speaker 4>teaser on her social media and then telling fans that

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<v Speaker 4>they had to sign up for her newsletter in order

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00:21:38.040 --> 00:21:39.080
<v Speaker 4>to hear the full story.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, that Che's my baiting never ends. So what do

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<v Speaker 2>you think the relationship between Cheeseman and storytelling.

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<v Speaker 12>Is storytelling is just refined Cheeseman. And it kind of

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00:21:57.560 --> 00:21:59.480
<v Speaker 12>makes sense that I went into this field because I

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<v Speaker 12>want to know stories, I want to ask the questions,

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00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:06.280
<v Speaker 12>and I have an ability to tell a story live

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00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.960
<v Speaker 12>that is really unique to me, and that is because

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00:22:11.280 --> 00:22:14.200
<v Speaker 12>I think I've practiced it for so long in front

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00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:17.440
<v Speaker 12>of my cousins at the dinner table, like at the Godnessada,

404
00:22:17.520 --> 00:22:21.280
<v Speaker 12>at the Quinsignia. And there's a way that you tell

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00:22:21.320 --> 00:22:25.040
<v Speaker 12>the chiement that gets everybody engaged and brings everyone into

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00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:25.880
<v Speaker 12>the conversation.

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00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:27.560
<v Speaker 13>And if you are the one.

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00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:30.320
<v Speaker 12>Leading that, there definitely is a performance aspect of that.

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00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:33.000
<v Speaker 4>No, totally. The delivery is super.

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00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:36.239
<v Speaker 12>Important because when you're telling it to an audience, you

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00:22:36.280 --> 00:22:38.520
<v Speaker 12>want to be gentle, you want to give it pause,

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00:22:39.280 --> 00:22:42.160
<v Speaker 12>you want to get the reactions because based on their reactions,

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00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:44.719
<v Speaker 12>what's the next part of the story that you're going

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00:22:44.760 --> 00:22:47.080
<v Speaker 12>to reveal and are you going to tease it out?

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00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:48.480
<v Speaker 12>Are you going to leave them wanting more. Are you

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00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:50.040
<v Speaker 12>going to get up, go get a drink of water

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00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:50.720
<v Speaker 12>so that they're like.

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00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:51.840
<v Speaker 13>Come back, come back.

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00:22:52.520 --> 00:22:54.960
<v Speaker 12>And that's essential, you know, as a host, as somebody

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00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.479
<v Speaker 12>who works on camera, to be able to do that,

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00:22:58.040 --> 00:23:00.960
<v Speaker 12>it's a very critical skill to have and not everybody

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00:23:01.040 --> 00:23:01.479
<v Speaker 12>can do it.

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<v Speaker 2>So we took Leniana's advice and used our best storytelling

424
00:23:09.840 --> 00:23:12.560
<v Speaker 2>skills to share our little experiment with her.

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00:23:12.800 --> 00:23:16.119
<v Speaker 4>And like the housewives, she was not impressed.

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00:23:16.560 --> 00:23:21.040
<v Speaker 12>No girl next level say that she was just vacationing

427
00:23:21.280 --> 00:23:24.320
<v Speaker 12>at mar A Lago, not mar A Lago.

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00:23:24.800 --> 00:23:27.320
<v Speaker 13>Oh my god, that's the mic drop.

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00:23:27.560 --> 00:23:28.520
<v Speaker 10>That's it right there.

430
00:23:32.760 --> 00:23:35.920
<v Speaker 2>So it turns out that cheesemak can influence anything from

431
00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:38.359
<v Speaker 2>the media that we consume to the products that we buy.

432
00:23:38.760 --> 00:23:41.960
<v Speaker 2>And meanwhile, there are people getting rich from our thirst

433
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:42.440
<v Speaker 2>for cheese.

434
00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:42.600
<v Speaker 7>Man.

435
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:46.760
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean, if celebrities are brands, cheese mayth feeds

436
00:23:46.800 --> 00:23:47.200
<v Speaker 4>the beast.

437
00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:51.800
<v Speaker 2>So it's clear that cheesemath can be really influential, and

438
00:23:52.080 --> 00:23:54.560
<v Speaker 2>maybe it has been that way forever. I feel like

439
00:23:54.760 --> 00:23:59.520
<v Speaker 2>we need to dive into the role of cheesement throughout history.

440
00:24:00.320 --> 00:24:03.520
<v Speaker 8>Ana Rodriguez Navas I am an associate professor of Latin

441
00:24:03.560 --> 00:24:08.040
<v Speaker 8>American literature and culture at Leola, Chicago, and my most

442
00:24:08.040 --> 00:24:10.400
<v Speaker 8>recent book is a book on gossip, which is why

443
00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:10.880
<v Speaker 8>we're here.

444
00:24:13.080 --> 00:24:17.120
<v Speaker 4>So the tora in your book idle Talk, deadly talk.

445
00:24:17.600 --> 00:24:19.919
<v Speaker 4>You look at how gossip in the Caribbean isn't just

446
00:24:20.040 --> 00:24:24.840
<v Speaker 4>a tool, it's a weapon. So while it can build communities,

447
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:28.480
<v Speaker 4>it can also destabilize them. And something that you also

448
00:24:28.520 --> 00:24:31.920
<v Speaker 4>get into is a difference between the etymology of gossip

449
00:24:32.080 --> 00:24:34.639
<v Speaker 4>and cheese may. I'm wondering if you could tell us

450
00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:35.760
<v Speaker 4>a little bit more about that.

451
00:24:36.520 --> 00:24:39.919
<v Speaker 8>So in English we use the word gossip pretty indistinguishably

452
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:42.080
<v Speaker 8>from the Spanish cheese mate, right, but at its origin

453
00:24:42.080 --> 00:24:45.880
<v Speaker 8>they're very different. So the word gossip comes from gossip,

454
00:24:46.320 --> 00:24:51.320
<v Speaker 8>which basically means mavrina. So the word gossip is rooted

455
00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:55.280
<v Speaker 8>in kinship, in that kind of chatter or talk between

456
00:24:55.320 --> 00:24:58.360
<v Speaker 8>god parents. It describes a specific act, whereas cheese may

457
00:24:58.560 --> 00:25:00.600
<v Speaker 8>for us. In Spanish, the origin of the word is

458
00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:04.199
<v Speaker 8>much more oppositional. It derives either from the word for

459
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:09.240
<v Speaker 8>that bug, which is obviously an unpleasant, nasty creature, or

460
00:25:09.280 --> 00:25:13.760
<v Speaker 8>the word for schism, which can mean division, rupture, break.

461
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:18.400
<v Speaker 4>This really surprised me because Chief made to me has

462
00:25:18.560 --> 00:25:22.280
<v Speaker 4>more of a positive connotation than gossip. Another distinction that

463
00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:25.000
<v Speaker 4>you make in your book is that the terms gossip

464
00:25:25.040 --> 00:25:28.880
<v Speaker 4>and rumor are often used interchangeably, but that doesn't mean

465
00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:32.679
<v Speaker 4>that they're identical. So with rumors, you don't necessarily know

466
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:36.320
<v Speaker 4>where they're coming from, and they tend to be more conspiratorial.

467
00:25:36.840 --> 00:25:41.359
<v Speaker 4>But gossip has almost more credibility because it's more personal

468
00:25:41.560 --> 00:25:44.719
<v Speaker 4>and it's transmitted from one person to the next, so

469
00:25:44.840 --> 00:25:48.000
<v Speaker 4>it's the whole You know, you didn't hear this from me,

470
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:50.280
<v Speaker 4>but yes, exactly.

471
00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:53.960
<v Speaker 8>Gossip is very, very, very elastic, and it's really hard

472
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:56.719
<v Speaker 8>to overstate how different it can be and how much

473
00:25:56.760 --> 00:25:59.560
<v Speaker 8>it changes while still being recognizable as gossip.

474
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:04.440
<v Speaker 2>So look, Doda, we've actually been speaking to several professional chizmosas,

475
00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:08.639
<v Speaker 2>and now that I'm thinking about it, we've only wanted

476
00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:11.320
<v Speaker 2>to talk to women, and we never even.

477
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:12.639
<v Speaker 6>Bothered to ask why that was.

478
00:26:13.280 --> 00:26:15.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm starting to think that it might have something to

479
00:26:15.320 --> 00:26:18.920
<v Speaker 2>do with the internalized belief that we gossip more or

480
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:23.920
<v Speaker 2>Gela muherrees almost masschizmosis. But where does that belief even

481
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:24.640
<v Speaker 2>come from.

482
00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:28.760
<v Speaker 8>Historically, there's been that suggestion that real men quote unquote

483
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:32.080
<v Speaker 8>don't gossip. So where does that come from? Well, women

484
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:36.600
<v Speaker 8>were historically excluded from the public sphere. We weren't the

485
00:26:36.600 --> 00:26:39.960
<v Speaker 8>ones writing in newspapers or doing the public speaking, or

486
00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:43.919
<v Speaker 8>attended political meetings. So it's in the private sphere where

487
00:26:43.960 --> 00:26:47.119
<v Speaker 8>we found our voice. But it's also important to recognize

488
00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:51.400
<v Speaker 8>that women were not the only one's gossip. What happens

489
00:26:51.800 --> 00:26:55.520
<v Speaker 8>is that men use their public speech to label women's

490
00:26:55.520 --> 00:26:59.480
<v Speaker 8>private speech as inferior while ignoring their own private speech

491
00:26:59.560 --> 00:27:01.680
<v Speaker 8>or not agnowing what they're doing as a form of

492
00:27:01.720 --> 00:27:04.040
<v Speaker 8>gossip too interesting.

493
00:27:04.760 --> 00:27:07.840
<v Speaker 4>So is that maybe why women have been told that

494
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:11.399
<v Speaker 4>gossiping is bad and something that we should feel guilty

495
00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:11.960
<v Speaker 4>about doing.

496
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:15.560
<v Speaker 8>You know, gossip is something that we all do. But

497
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:18.600
<v Speaker 8>what happens is that when people talk about gossip as

498
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:21.240
<v Speaker 8>not respectable or something that is a terrible thing to do,

499
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:24.840
<v Speaker 8>it's really what you're seeing as an attempt to police

500
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:27.920
<v Speaker 8>other people's gossip and to dismiss their voice.

501
00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:32.600
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, And as you explore in your research, this isn't

502
00:27:32.600 --> 00:27:36.480
<v Speaker 2>something new. So throughout history, what has been the relationship

503
00:27:36.560 --> 00:27:37.720
<v Speaker 2>between gossip and power.

504
00:27:38.320 --> 00:27:43.760
<v Speaker 8>Gossip has been historically a brush used by the oppressor

505
00:27:44.040 --> 00:27:47.960
<v Speaker 8>to paint the oppressed. So it's happened with indigenous men

506
00:27:48.080 --> 00:27:51.520
<v Speaker 8>with peasants and farmers with gay people, all of whom

507
00:27:51.520 --> 00:27:55.440
<v Speaker 8>have been talked about as being lazy, good for nothing gossipers.

508
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:58.880
<v Speaker 8>But what is happening in those cases is that those

509
00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:02.280
<v Speaker 8>in power are first excluding those groups from public discourse

510
00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:06.360
<v Speaker 8>and then disqualifying their private discourse as nothing but gossip.

511
00:28:06.840 --> 00:28:10.960
<v Speaker 4>Oh okay, I see how it is. So can you

512
00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:13.199
<v Speaker 4>give us an example of what that looks like In

513
00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:15.119
<v Speaker 4>Latin America.

514
00:28:14.440 --> 00:28:19.560
<v Speaker 8>Whether it's slavery or colonization or dictatorships, our region has

515
00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:23.920
<v Speaker 8>been marked, unfortunately by systems of power that don't represent

516
00:28:24.320 --> 00:28:28.240
<v Speaker 8>large sectors of the population, precisely because gossip is illicit

517
00:28:28.359 --> 00:28:31.440
<v Speaker 8>and furtive. It is a way for people to circumvent

518
00:28:31.480 --> 00:28:35.720
<v Speaker 8>those controls. They're able to challenge official versions of events,

519
00:28:35.760 --> 00:28:39.160
<v Speaker 8>to say what they think really happen, and to circulate

520
00:28:39.760 --> 00:28:43.080
<v Speaker 8>important knowledge to preserve their voices and their experiences.

521
00:28:43.720 --> 00:28:46.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean this is really resonating with me. In

522
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:49.120
<v Speaker 4>the afternoons, I used to sit in the sala of

523
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:52.840
<v Speaker 4>my childhood home with my visa Welas and they would,

524
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:55.840
<v Speaker 4>you know, tell me a lot of stories. There's usually

525
00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:59.960
<v Speaker 4>a lot of cautionary tales, sometimes about men, but also

526
00:29:00.120 --> 00:29:04.160
<v Speaker 4>so about government repression in Cuba. So it is affirming

527
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:06.680
<v Speaker 4>to know that that is also a form of cheesemaye.

528
00:29:07.360 --> 00:29:10.560
<v Speaker 8>Gossip is a fundamental part of the kind of information

529
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:14.880
<v Speaker 8>control of repressive political systems, and it sort of works

530
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:18.200
<v Speaker 8>both ways. It can be extremely beneficial and it can

531
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:21.600
<v Speaker 8>be extremely repressive. So, for instance, if someone gossip's with

532
00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:24.360
<v Speaker 8>you and tells you, hey, be careful with the neighbor

533
00:29:24.560 --> 00:29:27.760
<v Speaker 8>turns out that he's connected to the authorities, you know

534
00:29:28.120 --> 00:29:29.920
<v Speaker 8>that if you want to be safe, you're not going

535
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.760
<v Speaker 8>to tell anything that might jeopardize you or your family

536
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.360
<v Speaker 8>to this neighbor, right, anything that is against the government.

537
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:44.280
<v Speaker 4>This reminds me of the comites delu in Cuba, which

538
00:29:44.360 --> 00:29:49.560
<v Speaker 4>are basically networks of cheese muscles whose job is to

539
00:29:49.640 --> 00:29:53.160
<v Speaker 4>snitch on their neighbors to the government if they see

540
00:29:53.320 --> 00:29:56.640
<v Speaker 4>or hear or suspect of any illegal activity.

541
00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:00.200
<v Speaker 8>Yes, that's a perfect example of that. That's why. And

542
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:04.040
<v Speaker 8>there are money, and this sadly continues to happen. And

543
00:30:04.280 --> 00:30:06.280
<v Speaker 8>I want to point out that in this example we're

544
00:30:06.320 --> 00:30:08.560
<v Speaker 8>talking about men right all the way.

545
00:30:08.560 --> 00:30:09.560
<v Speaker 6>Yes, all the way.

546
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:11.040
<v Speaker 2>It's always the men.

547
00:30:13.080 --> 00:30:16.120
<v Speaker 8>Gossip for us in the diaspora, is a really important

548
00:30:16.120 --> 00:30:20.360
<v Speaker 8>way to reclaim stories that are at risk. So, for instance,

549
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:22.320
<v Speaker 8>if you think about family gossip, it's not just chatter.

550
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:25.600
<v Speaker 8>It's also a way of preserving something important or reclaiming

551
00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:29.640
<v Speaker 8>lost memories, lost history, of filling out silences. There's a

552
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:32.240
<v Speaker 8>kind of oral history of the community that is authentic

553
00:30:32.600 --> 00:30:34.480
<v Speaker 8>that emerges from gossip.

554
00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:42.680
<v Speaker 4>Monica. I think I'm having a moment. Oh my God,

555
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:47.480
<v Speaker 4>tell me. For maybe selfish reasons, my main goal in

556
00:30:47.520 --> 00:30:51.600
<v Speaker 4>this quest has been to demystify cheese May, because obviously

557
00:30:51.640 --> 00:30:54.720
<v Speaker 4>I'm very desperate to drop my gill. But I think

558
00:30:54.760 --> 00:30:57.560
<v Speaker 4>that it's distracted me from seeing how cheese May has

559
00:30:57.640 --> 00:31:02.640
<v Speaker 4>actually helped me form and craft my Cuban American identity.

560
00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:06.560
<v Speaker 4>How So, when I think about when I feel the

561
00:31:06.600 --> 00:31:10.600
<v Speaker 4>most Latina, it's when I'm Chismanlo with my theas and

562
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:14.720
<v Speaker 4>my cousins. It's late at night, everybody's defenses are down,

563
00:31:15.320 --> 00:31:18.200
<v Speaker 4>and that's when I'm not trying to check my Miami

564
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:20.600
<v Speaker 4>accent because I think it makes me sound less educated

565
00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:21.160
<v Speaker 4>or something.

566
00:31:22.080 --> 00:31:24.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, I've only recently been able to think of

567
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:28.200
<v Speaker 2>myself as respectable, and I think a lot of that

568
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:32.000
<v Speaker 2>is because so much of my Latinx identity is deeply

569
00:31:32.120 --> 00:31:35.680
<v Speaker 2>tied with class and gender and my experience in being

570
00:31:35.760 --> 00:31:40.240
<v Speaker 2>this working class, flamboyant chi they Latina with a huge butt.

571
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:43.720
<v Speaker 2>I know that my words have never really carried much weight,

572
00:31:44.280 --> 00:31:47.720
<v Speaker 2>but it has been that act of dismissal that has

573
00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:51.800
<v Speaker 2>always fueled my desire to just own my truths own

574
00:31:51.840 --> 00:31:55.880
<v Speaker 2>my cheese, miss because for me, there's been nothing more

575
00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:58.160
<v Speaker 2>powerful than just living in my truth.

576
00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:07.360
<v Speaker 1>All right, welcome back, Nissa Helite's the cheese made.

577
00:32:07.560 --> 00:32:09.680
<v Speaker 3>So how did the assignment go?

578
00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:13.920
<v Speaker 2>We have so much to share, my god.

579
00:32:14.560 --> 00:32:18.680
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so we first talked to two reality TV stars

580
00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:22.400
<v Speaker 4>from the Real Housewives of Miami and they had some

581
00:32:22.520 --> 00:32:25.440
<v Speaker 4>interesting suggestions about our Cheesemay Maria.

582
00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:28.040
<v Speaker 6>Oh, Luca, that's not a good one.

583
00:32:28.080 --> 00:32:30.080
<v Speaker 9>Why don't you say she has like a fake leg

584
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:30.800
<v Speaker 9>or something.

585
00:32:31.840 --> 00:32:34.560
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's like the craziest thing I've ever heard that

586
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:36.719
<v Speaker 1>what's easier to make people believe is that I have

587
00:32:36.760 --> 00:32:38.920
<v Speaker 1>a fake leg, not that I'm using weights.

588
00:32:39.760 --> 00:32:43.680
<v Speaker 2>Our second expert was an entertainment journalist and she wanted

589
00:32:43.760 --> 00:32:45.560
<v Speaker 2>us to take it even.

590
00:32:45.320 --> 00:32:49.800
<v Speaker 12>Further, say that she was just vacationing at mar A Lago.

591
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:56.560
<v Speaker 1>Wow, I think she knows me because to that one,

592
00:32:57.160 --> 00:32:58.600
<v Speaker 1>that's some pretty serious cheese man.

593
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:00.160
<v Speaker 3>That could destroy my career.

594
00:33:00.080 --> 00:33:03.240
<v Speaker 2>Right, good thing. We spoke to our last expert, Lo

595
00:33:03.360 --> 00:33:07.360
<v Speaker 2>Toro riaz Nevz, who reminded us that cheesemut is supposed

596
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:11.160
<v Speaker 2>to be organic, it's not supposed to be fabricated. So

597
00:33:11.280 --> 00:33:14.120
<v Speaker 2>in this case, our experiment took an unexpected turn.

598
00:33:14.840 --> 00:33:17.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I'm totally confused and intrigued. Now I want to

599
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:18.000
<v Speaker 1>know what happened.

600
00:33:18.040 --> 00:33:22.560
<v Speaker 4>Okay, So what we're saying is that we didn't end

601
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:25.600
<v Speaker 4>up telling anybody on our team that you wear a wig.

602
00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:27.640
<v Speaker 6>Oh.

603
00:33:27.800 --> 00:33:30.880
<v Speaker 2>We learned that the space where cheesemu happens is really

604
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:34.840
<v Speaker 2>vital because you need to build that intimacy and confienza.

605
00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:38.680
<v Speaker 2>You got to look people in the eye. But because

606
00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:43.520
<v Speaker 2>we're all working remotely, we realized that spreading the cheesemut

607
00:33:43.760 --> 00:33:46.680
<v Speaker 2>wasn't really going to happen as naturally as we wanted.

608
00:33:47.120 --> 00:33:49.840
<v Speaker 1>In other words, cheesema has actually taken a hit during

609
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:50.520
<v Speaker 1>the pandemic.

610
00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:52.960
<v Speaker 2>It was a really unexpected loss.

611
00:33:54.040 --> 00:33:56.320
<v Speaker 1>I did wonder, how do you start cheesema up when

612
00:33:56.320 --> 00:33:59.440
<v Speaker 1>you're not all in the office, So yeah, the pandemic

613
00:33:59.560 --> 00:34:00.000
<v Speaker 1>hit again.

614
00:34:00.280 --> 00:34:03.240
<v Speaker 4>We were also just thinking what if we did start

615
00:34:03.280 --> 00:34:06.120
<v Speaker 4>spreading this cheese mal What if we started having meetings

616
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:09.200
<v Speaker 4>with other producers and we were like, hey, guess what,

617
00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:12.480
<v Speaker 4>Madias hair is fake? What if that was an invitation

618
00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:16.240
<v Speaker 4>for them to say some really mean, nasty things about

619
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:16.600
<v Speaker 4>your hair.

620
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:19.799
<v Speaker 1>The thing about cheese may is that it can go dark,

621
00:34:20.560 --> 00:34:23.839
<v Speaker 1>it can get cruel, and it can be used as

622
00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:24.440
<v Speaker 1>a takedown.

623
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:27.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean, we also have to remember that cheese

624
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:31.080
<v Speaker 4>may is a way that belief systems are built and

625
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:36.200
<v Speaker 4>also maintained. So for example, if I'm talking to Una

626
00:34:36.200 --> 00:34:39.360
<v Speaker 4>Senora and she's gossiping to me about how someone gained

627
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:43.120
<v Speaker 4>weight and she's framing it as something shameful, that cheese

628
00:34:43.120 --> 00:34:46.160
<v Speaker 4>may is not going to be fun for me because

629
00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:50.600
<v Speaker 4>body shaming is against my personal ethical code.

630
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:54.000
<v Speaker 1>And so that is the other side of cheesemay where

631
00:34:54.040 --> 00:34:57.600
<v Speaker 1>we can be laughing and joking. But then it's like, oh,

632
00:34:57.640 --> 00:35:01.120
<v Speaker 1>there was a crossover right there, and I understand that

633
00:35:01.120 --> 00:35:04.440
<v Speaker 1>that would have been hard. Also, if anybody said anything

634
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:06.080
<v Speaker 1>bad about my hair, I'd have to come at them,

635
00:35:06.120 --> 00:35:06.720
<v Speaker 1>not just kidding.

636
00:35:11.200 --> 00:35:15.280
<v Speaker 4>So even though we didn't end up spreading the wig Cheesemay.

637
00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:18.560
<v Speaker 4>I think that we still came out on top because

638
00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:21.839
<v Speaker 4>we had a breakthrough. We learned that we'd come from

639
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:25.000
<v Speaker 4>a long line of cheese mosas who, like us, knew

640
00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:28.600
<v Speaker 4>that gossip isn't just silly women's talk. It deserves more

641
00:35:28.640 --> 00:35:31.640
<v Speaker 4>respect because it can be a tool for resistance.

642
00:35:32.160 --> 00:35:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, exactly, it's an ancestral language.

643
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:38.879
<v Speaker 3>A save for cheesemay right there.

644
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:43.960
<v Speaker 2>And you know, this experiment has made us realize that

645
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:46.520
<v Speaker 2>it's not even so much what we're cheeseman though about,

646
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:50.120
<v Speaker 2>but rather the connection that cheese may is creating.

647
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:55.880
<v Speaker 12>My bs and I live such different lives and sometimes

648
00:35:55.880 --> 00:35:58.759
<v Speaker 12>it's hard to find things to talk about, but we

649
00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:02.680
<v Speaker 12>can always talk about that, yeah, always. Cheese May creates

650
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:06.919
<v Speaker 12>commonalities for us to discuss and discuss passionately and energetically

651
00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:08.120
<v Speaker 12>and have fun together.

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00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:13.920
<v Speaker 8>Gossip, for us is a real important connective tissue connecting

653
00:36:14.160 --> 00:36:18.400
<v Speaker 8>us US Latinas to Latin America, connecting us within our communities.

654
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:22.279
<v Speaker 8>But it can be a bridge so that sense of belonging,

655
00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:26.640
<v Speaker 8>that sense of being part of that community is heightened

656
00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:27.520
<v Speaker 8>with the gossip.

657
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:30.920
<v Speaker 6>I doil me. This is like a therapy session.

658
00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:33.560
<v Speaker 3>See that's it. You know.

659
00:36:33.600 --> 00:36:38.319
<v Speaker 1>For me, cheese may is like bonding in particular with

660
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:44.160
<v Speaker 1>family and joy and storytelling. I mean, when I understood

661
00:36:44.160 --> 00:36:46.640
<v Speaker 1>that what my mom was doing during the time that

662
00:36:46.640 --> 00:36:52.279
<v Speaker 1>we were Chiesmiando was actually telling me great stories, it

663
00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:54.399
<v Speaker 1>was a turning point for me. I was like, wait,

664
00:36:55.520 --> 00:36:59.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm a storyteller too, and that basically changed my whole life.

665
00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:04.480
<v Speaker 4>I I think I'm hearing that since we're all professional storytellers,

666
00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:10.000
<v Speaker 4>were also professional cheese mosas. And you know what, that

667
00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:13.560
<v Speaker 4>is nothing to be ashamed of. It is what gives

668
00:37:13.600 --> 00:37:14.200
<v Speaker 4>us our power.

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00:37:15.200 --> 00:37:17.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, our powers.

670
00:37:17.520 --> 00:37:23.560
<v Speaker 1>It's official because this sientificas that cheese may have told us. So, Elisa, Monica,

671
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:27.680
<v Speaker 1>your assignment is now complete. I am blessing you to

672
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:31.920
<v Speaker 1>go off to cheese Meer until you can't anymore, and

673
00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:36.600
<v Speaker 1>that you're spreading the gospel of Cheesemare's resistance. So until

674
00:37:36.640 --> 00:37:41.120
<v Speaker 1>your next assignment, off you go, my little Angels of Cheesemas.

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00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:51.000
<v Speaker 1>This episode was produced by Last Cheese Mosas Elisa Bayena

676
00:37:51.040 --> 00:37:54.520
<v Speaker 1>and Monica Morales Garcia, and edited by another cheese mos

677
00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:55.799
<v Speaker 1>Marta Martinez.

678
00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:59.800
<v Speaker 3>It was mixed by cheese Mosas Steffanie Lebau and Julia Caruso.

679
00:38:00.040 --> 00:38:05.040
<v Speaker 1>The Latino USA team includes ciz Mosos I Gizmosas, Andrea Lopez, Grussado,

680
00:38:05.160 --> 00:38:10.280
<v Speaker 1>Deisy Contreds, Mike Sargent, Julieta Martinelli, Victoria Estrada, Patricia sulbaran

681
00:38:10.360 --> 00:38:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Alejandra saasad Renaldo Leanos Junior and Julia Rocha, with help

682
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:18.160
<v Speaker 1>from Raul Perez. Our editorial directors Julio Ricardo Barela. Our

683
00:38:18.200 --> 00:38:21.960
<v Speaker 1>associate engineers are j J Carubin and Gabriela Biez. Our

684
00:38:22.080 --> 00:38:25.640
<v Speaker 1>marketing manager is Les Luna. Our fellow is Andrew Bignalis.

685
00:38:26.080 --> 00:38:29.840
<v Speaker 1>Our theme music was composed by Sega Rubinos. I'm the og,

686
00:38:30.120 --> 00:38:34.160
<v Speaker 1>Ciez Mosa host and executive producer Maria Rosa. Join us

687
00:38:34.160 --> 00:38:38.000
<v Speaker 1>again on our next episode. Remember comodimos, Les ciz Mosas

688
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:41.360
<v Speaker 1>not deeva, Yes, and we'll see you on our next episode.

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00:38:41.640 --> 00:38:41.920
<v Speaker 3>Ciao.

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00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:49.480
<v Speaker 5>Latino USA is made possible in part by California Endowment,

691
00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:53.120
<v Speaker 5>building a strong state by improving the health of all Californians,

692
00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:54.440
<v Speaker 5>the John D.

693
00:38:54.760 --> 00:38:55.360
<v Speaker 4>And Catherine T.

694
00:38:55.600 --> 00:39:01.400
<v Speaker 5>MacArthur Foundation, and the Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on

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00:39:01.520 --> 00:39:03.839
<v Speaker 5>the front lines of social change worldwide.

696
00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:09.880
<v Speaker 3>Here's some cheese man for you. You want something to

697
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:11.920
<v Speaker 3>chease me at, I'm about to give you something to

698
00:39:12.040 --> 00:39:12.600
<v Speaker 3>chease me at