WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:03.720 Hey, let you know USA listener, here's an award winning 2 00:00:03.760 --> 00:00:09.920 podcast from our archives. Back in twenty fourteen, before everything started, 3 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:14.600 Teresa Matias lived in an apartment with her kids in Huntsville, Alabama. 4 00:00:17.720 --> 00:00:22.040 She worked all the time in a factory and cleaning houses. 5 00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:26.400 Day shifts bled into night shifts. Her world was small, 6 00:00:26.880 --> 00:00:31.320 her work and her kids. And then one day someone 7 00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:32.480 knocked on her door. 8 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:44.000 Jo ele aego to colada de hippos, cana amicasinadi me visita. 9 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:46.839 Teresa saw it was a woman who was dressed nicely, 10 00:00:47.120 --> 00:00:50.360 and so she opened the door. The woman introduced herself. 11 00:00:50.760 --> 00:00:53.920 We're going to call her M. She was Mexican and 12 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:56.840 spoke to Teresa in Spanish. She said she was from 13 00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:01.360 a local Catholic church. She says noticed her four sons 14 00:01:01.400 --> 00:01:05.000 playing in the living room immediately and remarked, oh, you 15 00:01:05.080 --> 00:01:05.960 have four boys. 16 00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:11.640 No, L. 17 00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:16.000 Teresa said, actually I have five boys. The youngest was 18 00:01:16.040 --> 00:01:18.880 still a baby and was sleeping in another room. When 19 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:20.760 Teresa went to pick him up out of the bed, 20 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:24.440 She says, M noticed that the baby looked different from 21 00:01:24.520 --> 00:01:25.440 Teresa's other. 22 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:33.760 Childrenque different, medico L you turn is different, Supapa. 23 00:01:34.160 --> 00:01:37.360 Teresa said she was a little embarrassed to explain that 24 00:01:37.520 --> 00:01:41.240 her youngest son, the baby had lighter skin because he 25 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:44.920 had a different dad, a white American guy who was 26 00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:48.880 never in the picture. Em told Teresa that she wanted 27 00:01:48.960 --> 00:01:52.640 kids but had never been able to get pregnant. And 28 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:57.040 then Teresa let Em hold the baby, and out. 29 00:01:56.800 --> 00:02:01.520 Of nowhere a medio or the m. 30 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:06.200 Asked Teresa to give her one of her children. Deesa 31 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:10.280 was taken aback lady or no, lady hey. Teresa said no, 32 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:25.320 how could she ever give a child away? From Futura 33 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:30.240 Media and PRX, it's Latin USA, I'm Maria Rosa today 34 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:35.640 an adoption without translation and exposing the cracks in our 35 00:02:35.720 --> 00:02:44.920 legal system. For this episode will sometimes be referring to 36 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:48.600 people with only the first initial of their name, and 37 00:02:48.880 --> 00:02:52.280 that's because this story involves children and we want to 38 00:02:52.280 --> 00:03:00.239 protect their identity and privacy. Producers Ashley Clik and Jennya 39 00:03:00.760 --> 00:03:04.520 traveled to Alabama to tell us the story of Didsamatias. 40 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:07.239 Ashley Creek is going to start us off. 41 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:10.600 One Sunday morning in August, Janis and I drive to 42 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:15.200 Holy Spirit Catholic Church in Huntsville, Alabama. Huntsfulls a flourishing 43 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:18.240 tech hub in a poor rural state. It has a 44 00:03:18.280 --> 00:03:24.320 small but growing Latino population. It's hot out and we 45 00:03:24.320 --> 00:03:27.160 watched families run through the parking lot sweat spots showing 46 00:03:27.160 --> 00:03:35.800 on their Sunday clothes. Holy Spirit is one of a 47 00:03:35.800 --> 00:03:38.760 handful of Catholic churches in Huntsville, and the fourth sermon 48 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:46.920 of the day is about to begin the Spanish language mass. 49 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:53.080 The church's path the roses are filled with children, parents, grandparents, 50 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:57.440 all dressed in their Sunday best. Mothers soothe frustrated babies 51 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:00.360 while latecomers line the back walls of the church and 52 00:04:00.440 --> 00:04:01.280 listened to the sermon. 53 00:04:01.640 --> 00:04:04.400 Standing in. 54 00:04:06.720 --> 00:04:08.880 Madison County well. 55 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:13.440 The pastor, a white man, reminds his congregation that this 56 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:16.520 mass is the only Spanish Mass in the county. 57 00:04:17.520 --> 00:04:21.080 In twenty fifteen, the church welcomed the new member, Teresa 58 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:24.440 Matias Ashley, and I met her in her home in Huntsville, 59 00:04:24.440 --> 00:04:31.200 where she lives with her four sons. So Tedas is 60 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:34.640 in her early thirties and she stands about five feet tall. 61 00:04:35.200 --> 00:04:38.120 She's originally from rural Guatemala and has been living in 62 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:40.560 the US for about fourteen years, but she only knows 63 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:42.600 a few words in English, so we spoke to her 64 00:04:42.640 --> 00:04:46.200 primarily in Spanish, which is her second language. Her first 65 00:04:46.400 --> 00:04:48.480 is a Mayan language called Ganghobal. 66 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:50.920 You have energy to talk. 67 00:04:52.279 --> 00:04:56.479 It together for the sunnay okay. 68 00:04:56.640 --> 00:04:59.360 Soon after she moved to Huntsville, Tedesa met a man 69 00:04:59.440 --> 00:05:03.640 and they moved together. They had four sons. Over the years, 70 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:07.560 he became abusive, so Teresa got a restraining order against him. 71 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:11.920 She left him, and then her ex was deported. Around 72 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:14.159 the same time, she had one more son with a 73 00:05:14.200 --> 00:05:16.960 white American man she knew from work, but he was 74 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:20.000 never really in the picture. So Teresa was left alone 75 00:05:20.520 --> 00:05:21.760 with five kids. 76 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:24.960 In the small city of Huntsville and the even smaller 77 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:27.880 Spanish speaking community. Word got around that there was a 78 00:05:27.880 --> 00:05:31.119 single mom with five boys who might need some help, 79 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:33.960 and one day in the spring of twenty fourteen, a 80 00:05:33.960 --> 00:05:39.160 bunch of cars showed up at Teresa's door. Yet they 81 00:05:39.200 --> 00:05:42.520 remembers from the Church Holy Spirit. They brought diapers and 82 00:05:42.520 --> 00:05:44.200 asked Teresa if she needed any. 83 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:44.680 Help to. 84 00:05:46.880 --> 00:05:50.039 Ayuda dess Ayuda. 85 00:05:50.320 --> 00:05:53.640 Teresa appreciated the support. A few weeks after that is 86 00:05:53.640 --> 00:05:56.359 when a woman were calling em. A light skinned Mexican 87 00:05:56.400 --> 00:06:00.640 woman knocked on Teresa's door was pretty high up in 88 00:06:00.640 --> 00:06:03.840 the church. She was the secretary of the Spanish language ministry, 89 00:06:04.400 --> 00:06:06.760 and that's when she asked Teresa to give up a child. 90 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:11.200 At the time, Teresa told em directly, no. 91 00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:13.119 Way, lady, Hey, you're nowhere. 92 00:06:19.400 --> 00:06:21.560 I won't give my child away, and I'm not letting 93 00:06:21.600 --> 00:06:23.760 anyone adopt him, even if I know them. 94 00:06:23.960 --> 00:06:24.840 She told them. 95 00:06:25.200 --> 00:06:28.200 Teresa thought the subject was closed. They talked a little more. 96 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:31.040 Em told Teresa that she didn't have kids and later 97 00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:32.840 asked her if her boys were baptized. 98 00:06:33.200 --> 00:06:34.760 Hey the kiss. 99 00:06:36.880 --> 00:06:39.120 Em invited her to join the Catholic church and told 100 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:41.760 Teresa that if she wanted to have her kids baptized 101 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:44.840 and if she needed god parents, em would be happy 102 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:46.760 to be the godmother for one of her kids. 103 00:06:49.200 --> 00:06:53.920 So here's where Teresa is at, five kids, alone, out 104 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:57.560 of a bad relationship and without much support, and all 105 00:06:57.600 --> 00:06:59.919 of a sudden, this local church showed up at her 106 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:05.039 or step. Esa grew up Catholic in Watemla and had 107 00:07:05.080 --> 00:07:07.680 missed being part of a church. She decided it was 108 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:10.360 time to get her kids baptized, but she needed to 109 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:13.520 find godparents first, and she didn't know many people at 110 00:07:13.520 --> 00:07:16.119 the time. So she asked a member of the church 111 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:18.720 to help her fight godparents for her sons. 112 00:07:19.320 --> 00:07:23.800 You a lady hey salone seco quadr parino, marin ldo 113 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:27.960 porg eya self recio and sela marina or no dels ninos. 114 00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:31.000 She told the woman that she only needed four godparents 115 00:07:31.200 --> 00:07:33.880 because when em came to visit her, she offered for 116 00:07:33.960 --> 00:07:36.240 her and her husband to be the godparents to her 117 00:07:36.280 --> 00:07:40.320 youngest son, the one who was half white. Usually this 118 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:42.560 role goes out to members of the family, like an 119 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:46.720 aunt or an uncle or close family friends. In Spanish, 120 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:50.920 parents call their child's godparents comadre or compadre, and there 121 00:07:50.960 --> 00:07:53.679 isn't a word for this in English, but its literal 122 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:57.880 translation means co mother or co father, like you're raising 123 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:00.840 the child together. So the fact that Teresa had to 124 00:08:00.880 --> 00:08:03.680 find strangers to play this role for her kids was 125 00:08:03.760 --> 00:08:04.840 somewhat unique. 126 00:08:05.760 --> 00:08:09.920 One of these strangers ended up being Umberto Castillo, Romberto's 127 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:13.240 young in his early thirties. Back then, he was pretty 128 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:15.440 involved in the church, and when he was asked to 129 00:08:15.440 --> 00:08:18.120 be the godfather to one of Teresa's sons, it made 130 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:19.000 him a bit nervous. 131 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:21.640 I have to think about it because you know, I 132 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:23.760 got to be the sample of this ky a go 133 00:08:23.880 --> 00:08:26.800 to bed. If I'm the godfather, I have to show 134 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:28.440 him like who I am. 135 00:08:28.840 --> 00:08:31.720 Momberto grew up Catholic and he understood that being a 136 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:35.040 godparent is a big deal. He didn't know Teresa, and 137 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:37.280 if he became a godfather to one of her sons, 138 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:40.200 he knew he would become part of her family. Her 139 00:08:40.400 --> 00:08:44.320 compadre Romberto, decides to take this on. He becomes the 140 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:47.760 godfather of Teresa's oldest child and he started spending time 141 00:08:47.760 --> 00:08:50.920 with the family, taking the kids fishing out for ice cream. 142 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:53.760 Luckily for the family, Umberto's a mechanic. 143 00:08:54.160 --> 00:08:56.960 When the carbre you know the god life, He's always. 144 00:08:56.600 --> 00:09:04.640 There pretty quick. All five kids were finally matched with godparents, 145 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:11.760 and on February twenty eighth, twenty fifteen, everyone met at 146 00:09:11.800 --> 00:09:16.000 the church for the baptism. Teresa, her five kids all 147 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:20.599 dressed in white, and the godmothers and godfathers, including m 148 00:09:20.800 --> 00:09:27.200 and her husband who were going to call JP. After 149 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:30.079 the ceremony, they all went out for lunch to celebrate 150 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:35.680 at eighty eight Buffet, a Chinese restaurant in Huntsville. 151 00:09:36.280 --> 00:09:37.360 Yeah, pok it. 152 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:42.760 Everything was beautiful, that. Esa says, I was so happy 153 00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:46.160 her children were part of the religion she grew up with, 154 00:09:46.880 --> 00:09:55.200 and Teresa finally had a community. 155 00:09:55.920 --> 00:09:58.880 After that day, little by little things started to change. 156 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:02.079 M and JP were well off. They had a big 157 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:05.240 house and a nice part of town. The couple wanted kids, 158 00:10:05.520 --> 00:10:07.920 and according to the church members we spoke to, they 159 00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:10.600 were pretty open about the fact that they biologically couldn't 160 00:10:10.640 --> 00:10:13.920 have them. So when they became godparents, Teresa says, they 161 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:16.760 wanted to spend more time with her youngest child. 162 00:10:16.800 --> 00:10:21.160 KOs Mehabiandico Quepara yon Darbuelda in Las Magnanas ye in 163 00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:25.920 Las Ares, maj aber Bueno las bess Kiyo Kira al Nino. 164 00:10:26.160 --> 00:10:28.040 Teresa says they told her to leave the child with 165 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:30.720 them overnight so she didn't have to keep driving back 166 00:10:30.760 --> 00:10:34.680 and forth picking him up and dropping him off. Quickly, 167 00:10:34.920 --> 00:10:38.480 one night became two, then three, and soon the child 168 00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:42.280 was spending weeks at the couple's house. Teresa says she 169 00:10:42.400 --> 00:10:44.680 really needed someone to take care of her kids while 170 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:45.720 she was working. 171 00:10:45.640 --> 00:10:46.920 Ye Yo Sam. 172 00:10:49.920 --> 00:10:52.640 Sometimes she worked eighteen hour days. 173 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:56.320 Then, in the summer of twenty fifteen, a few days 174 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:59.280 after her youngest child turned two, Teresa found out that 175 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:02.120 M and j P threw a birthday party for him 176 00:11:02.160 --> 00:11:05.440 when he was staying with them. 177 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:05.960 Jo. 178 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:13.640 It was published on Facebook, but they didn't tell Teresa 179 00:11:13.880 --> 00:11:18.240 or invite her. Teresa didn't like it, but she didn't 180 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:21.000 say anything to them and she didn't get mad. She 181 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:24.240 respected them and she needed their help taking care of 182 00:11:24.280 --> 00:11:28.959 the little boy. Soon after, M M j P wanted 183 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:31.480 to take the child on vacation with them, but needed 184 00:11:31.520 --> 00:11:35.000 legal permission from Teresa. Esa told the couple that it 185 00:11:35.040 --> 00:11:37.040 was okay for her son to travel with them, but 186 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:50.800 she didn't want to sign anything. Resp They kept insisting. 187 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:56.720 They said, it's just for traveling, and so she agreed 188 00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:03.319 to sign. Your youngest child left on vacation with them, 189 00:12:06.679 --> 00:12:09.080 and they made sure to send pictures. 190 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:16.240 Coming up on Latino us A. M and j P 191 00:12:16.880 --> 00:13:08.920 make a proposition to Theresa, stay with us. We're back 192 00:13:09.640 --> 00:13:13.160 and when we left off, Teresa Madiaz had just joined 193 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:17.400 Holy Spirit Catholic Church and had her five sons baptized. 194 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:22.240 M and JP, the new godparents of her youngest son, 195 00:13:22.800 --> 00:13:26.880 had become very involved in the boy's life, including taking 196 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:30.480 him on vacation and throwing him a birthday party that 197 00:13:30.640 --> 00:13:35.560 Teresa was not invited to. Then they proposed something new 198 00:13:35.640 --> 00:13:40.160 to Teresa. Ashley Creek and Gene Yamoga continue the story. 199 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:44.400 Now the child had been staying at mgp's house more 200 00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:47.240 and more frequently since the spring of twenty fifteen. 201 00:13:47.800 --> 00:13:50.440 Yes and Bassaron Los Dias as the. 202 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:58.080 L Soon after I'm started talking about adopting her son 203 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:06.720 and mentioned something called an open adoption. Teressa didn't know 204 00:14:06.760 --> 00:14:18.400 what that was, so em explained, says M told her 205 00:14:18.520 --> 00:14:22.080 that the church allows open adoption, and what Teresa understood 206 00:14:22.160 --> 00:14:24.960 from M was that an open adoption is when you 207 00:14:25.040 --> 00:14:27.360 know who has adopted your kid, so you can still 208 00:14:27.400 --> 00:14:32.960 see your child and have the same rights as a 209 00:14:33.040 --> 00:14:34.640 new adoptive parents. 210 00:14:37.040 --> 00:14:40.480 Mberto, the godfather of one of her kids, says Teresa 211 00:14:40.520 --> 00:14:43.400 asked him what he thought for giving her youngest child 212 00:14:43.560 --> 00:14:43.880 up for. 213 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.720 Adoption, and she was like, I'm gonna be all with you. 214 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:49.360 Can I do it with all of them? 215 00:14:49.640 --> 00:14:51.640 It's too much for memberto says. 216 00:14:51.680 --> 00:14:54.040 He remembered that Teresa felt like she could give the 217 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:57.280 boy to M and JP, but only under the condition 218 00:14:57.480 --> 00:14:59.720 that she would continue to see him and be part 219 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:00.480 of his life. 220 00:15:00.800 --> 00:15:03.320 That was kind of like the rule she was not 221 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:08.440 giving him in aduction, like not to see him forever, and. 222 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:10.720 To Teresa, they should go to a lawyer to talk 223 00:15:10.760 --> 00:15:12.640 about this open adoption. 224 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:21.840 Pre medice. Lady Lady Estaban accept the. 225 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:27.200 At this point, Teresa says she was tired of them 226 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:29.160 asking her to go with them to see a lawyer, 227 00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:31.200 so she said, okay, she accepted. 228 00:15:35.400 --> 00:15:37.480 Their first meeting with a lawyer was in October of 229 00:15:37.520 --> 00:15:42.200 twenty fifteen, eight months after the baptism. Teresa says the 230 00:15:42.280 --> 00:15:46.200 lawyer spoke mostly to JP M's husband. They spoke in English. 231 00:15:46.680 --> 00:15:48.680 Remember that as I grew up in rule with the 232 00:15:48.760 --> 00:15:53.120 Mala and her family spoke Ahova, a Mayan language. She 233 00:15:53.160 --> 00:15:55.680 didn't really speak Spanish until she was a teen, but 234 00:15:55.760 --> 00:15:57.640 now that's what she uses most in her everyday life 235 00:15:57.680 --> 00:15:59.880 in the US, and she only knows a few words 236 00:15:59.880 --> 00:16:02.840 in English. So the couple translated for her at the 237 00:16:02.920 --> 00:16:07.360 lawyer's meeting from English to Spanish, but they only spoke 238 00:16:07.400 --> 00:16:10.080 to her when they needed to ask her logistical questions 239 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:12.440 like where's the child's Social Security card? 240 00:16:13.520 --> 00:16:13.920 She says. 241 00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:17.360 They met again with the lawyer in November, but again 242 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:21.160 no one spoke to her. She just sat there smiled 243 00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:29.480 and nodded. Teresa says that during this time she started 244 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:32.160 to get sick. She called m and talked with her. 245 00:16:32.640 --> 00:16:48.960 You're Lesdja siu Anino, vestaban led hipero Connesa. 246 00:16:43.640 --> 00:16:46.520 Told M M j P the same thing she told Umberto. 247 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:49.440 If they wanted to adopt the boy, she would agree, 248 00:16:50.040 --> 00:16:52.240 but with the condition that they would never prohibit her 249 00:16:52.280 --> 00:16:54.920 from seeing her son when she wanted. That it would 250 00:16:54.920 --> 00:17:02.520 be an open adoption estabian, she says am ad. A 251 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:06.080 few weeks later, MGP told Essa there was one more 252 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:09.520 meeting with the lawyer. This time, instead of going to 253 00:17:09.600 --> 00:17:12.680 the lawyer's office, they went to the courthouse and met 254 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:16.960 a judge. Esa says she didn't understand what was being said. 255 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:19.679 It was all in English, No me. 256 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:23.280 Nada. 257 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:27.440 They talked for over an hour. Then the judge shook 258 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:32.560 ESA's hand outside the courthouse. MGP told her that this 259 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:39.479 was their last meeting. The adoption was complete. A few 260 00:17:39.520 --> 00:17:42.240 weeks later, Teresa says she went to the couple's house. 261 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:44.880 It was a typical visit. She brought along her four 262 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:48.240 boys so they could play with their little brother. JP 263 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:52.000 told Teresa they needed to speak to her in another room. Before, 264 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:55.360 Teresa says, most of her conversations had been with EM, 265 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:58.080 but this time JP spoke to. 266 00:17:58.080 --> 00:18:04.879 Her mediel ami. 267 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:07.159 He said they love the boy very much and that 268 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:10.440 they thank her and God that the child called JP 269 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:11.680 dad for the first time. 270 00:18:13.600 --> 00:18:16.160 JP started to cry, and then he told her. 271 00:18:16.280 --> 00:18:23.280 Kelos pero the joel. 272 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:30.400 Por el bien del ninoos sermanos comandre. 273 00:18:30.560 --> 00:18:33.879 He said, we're sorry, but you can't come over anymore 274 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:36.760 to see the boy. It's better for the child and 275 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:40.440 for his brothers because after you leave, he's upset and 276 00:18:40.520 --> 00:18:49.960 he cries, so you can't come over anymore. Teresa says 277 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:54.720 she didn't speak, didn't say anything. She just stood there stunned. 278 00:18:56.119 --> 00:18:59.280 JP finished talking and Teresa finally said. 279 00:18:59.600 --> 00:18:59.679 You. 280 00:19:01.840 --> 00:19:07.120 Yohamas de vi comberrees porgueo mi who. 281 00:19:07.520 --> 00:19:10.480 Teresa told JP she didn't accept what he said, that 282 00:19:10.600 --> 00:19:12.720 this was not what they had talked about, but. 283 00:19:12.800 --> 00:19:15.320 She had trusted them. She agreed to share her child 284 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:17.040 with them, but not like this. 285 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:25.159 Teresa says, she went into the living room and hugged 286 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:25.960 her little boy. 287 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:29.920 Basol. 288 00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:38.200 She kissed him and told him she loved him, and 289 00:19:38.320 --> 00:19:40.640 then she told him to go be with his godfather. 290 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:45.560 She gathered her four sons and left, and it's only 291 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:48.159 when she walked out of the door that she started 292 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:59.640 to cry. That night, Teresa called a friend from church 293 00:20:00.080 --> 00:20:02.240 and started to tell the whole story from the beginning. 294 00:20:02.760 --> 00:20:05.400 Her friend told her she knew a lawyer that as 295 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:06.040 I should talk to. 296 00:20:06.600 --> 00:20:07.600 My recollection of Terce. 297 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:10.439 So she's a small woman anyway, But she seemed scared, 298 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:16.000 she seemed overwhelmed, she seemed fearful of the system in general. 299 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:17.440 This is Aaron Ryan. 300 00:20:17.760 --> 00:20:20.720 He's a lawyer in Huntsville, and Teresa explained to Aaron 301 00:20:20.800 --> 00:20:23.000 that she thought the adoption of her child would be 302 00:20:23.080 --> 00:20:25.640 an open adoption, that she would be able to see 303 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:28.399 the child and have the same rights as the new parents. 304 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:32.680 So I asked him about this, an open adoption does 305 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:36.200 that exist in Alabama? What you're calling an open adoption 306 00:20:36.320 --> 00:20:37.679 does not exist in Alabama at all. 307 00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:45.239 In Alabama, open adoption does exist, but it means something completely. 308 00:20:44.760 --> 00:20:46.520 Different from what Teresa thought it was. 309 00:20:47.520 --> 00:20:50.600 Each state has different laws around adoption, but in Alabama, 310 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:54.240 open only means that the child and the birth parents 311 00:20:54.600 --> 00:20:56.480 know each other's names and information. 312 00:20:57.359 --> 00:20:59.760 That's it. The birth mother retains no. 313 00:20:59.800 --> 00:21:03.720 Way their rights in Alabama there is no law for 314 00:21:03.800 --> 00:21:07.800 a statute that recognizes an open adoption like what Teresa understood. 315 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:12.720 After an adoption, Aaron explained to Teresa, the mother is 316 00:21:12.840 --> 00:21:13.800 no longer the parent. 317 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:17.520 Officially, they'll get a dew birth certificate with them listed 318 00:21:17.520 --> 00:21:20.440 as the biological payers of the child, so Teresa's name 319 00:21:20.600 --> 00:21:23.080 is erased from those records. 320 00:21:27.600 --> 00:21:31.399 In Edessa's case, Aaron says, there are several things that 321 00:21:31.560 --> 00:21:35.120 don't seem normal. All the adoption papers were in English, 322 00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:39.240 nothing was translated into Spanish for THEDISA, and having the 323 00:21:39.320 --> 00:21:43.520 adoptive parents MMJP act as a Spanish interpreter for MEDISA, 324 00:21:43.800 --> 00:21:53.000 Aaron says, is a conflict of interest. Aaron offered to 325 00:21:53.040 --> 00:21:58.840 help Edessa, but she couldn't afford it. A few months 326 00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:01.760 after JP told that Isa that she wasn't allowed to 327 00:22:01.760 --> 00:22:05.160 see her son anymore, the couple packed up and along 328 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:21.160 with the child, they moved out of state. We wanted 329 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:23.840 to understand the details of this adoption from someone who 330 00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:26.359 was there, so we found the address of the lawyer 331 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:29.840 who handled it. His name is Michael Robertson, so we 332 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:32.920 stopped by early in the afternoon. Michael agrees to talk, 333 00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:35.080 but says there are things he can't tell us unless 334 00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:38.240 that Isa's present. Yeah, he's still welcome to way. 335 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:41.000 Okay, Sure'm go away for a little bit. 336 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:43.239 I just want to take a second to note how 337 00:22:43.320 --> 00:22:47.040 strange this is because Esa is not Michael's client. He 338 00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:51.600 has no responsibility towards her, no relationship. But Michael is 339 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:54.320 adamant that there are things he only feels comfortable saying 340 00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:58.640 with that SA's permission. Throughout several interviews, Essa has told 341 00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:01.080 us repeatedly that you would like to talk to Michael 342 00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:03.840 about what happened during all those meetings she sat in. 343 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:07.000 So we call her and she agrees to meet go 344 00:23:10.080 --> 00:23:17.240 So we come back in the evening and Michael's waiting 345 00:23:17.280 --> 00:23:17.560 for us. 346 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:20.119 We sit on couches in the waiting room after the 347 00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:23.480 office is closed. Michael has a stack of files next 348 00:23:23.520 --> 00:23:26.000 to him. He wants to talk to Teresa about what 349 00:23:26.080 --> 00:23:29.040 happened three years ago. He starts by telling her what 350 00:23:29.280 --> 00:23:31.640 he thinks was happening in her life at the time. 351 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.760 This happened a long time ago, and I can't remember everything, 352 00:23:35.080 --> 00:23:38.840 but I do remember this, and I think Teresa, you 353 00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:39.639 should remember this. 354 00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:43.520 Michael says that the father of Teresa's youngest child the 355 00:23:43.560 --> 00:23:47.280 white American guy was sexually abusing Teresa and coming to 356 00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:48.719 her house harassing her. 357 00:23:49.520 --> 00:23:51.560 And look, you can record wherever you want, but I 358 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:54.160 want her to understand that he was coming over there 359 00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:55.400 and abusing. 360 00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:01.479 As Michael talks, Teresa looks confused, lost Jani's interprets for her, 361 00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:04.200 and Tennis explains that this isn't true. 362 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:07.520 I mentioned the police. I think she understood police. I 363 00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:10.719 think she wanted to go to the police. Now there 364 00:24:10.800 --> 00:24:13.320 was no interpreter. There was no interpreter there. But it 365 00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:15.119 was clear to me that I repeated this over and 366 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:17.720 over again, and I think she understood a lot of that. 367 00:24:18.040 --> 00:24:21.680 I mean, we met for hours. She had to understand. 368 00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:25.639 She has to understand that. She clearly understood. 369 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:29.360 Who was the interpreter in the rest, But the interpreter. 370 00:24:29.280 --> 00:24:33.200 Was again, it was, it was, it was, and I 371 00:24:33.320 --> 00:24:37.560 have to say this, it was well I can't really 372 00:24:37.600 --> 00:24:38.880 say it's my client. 373 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:40.000 But it was my client. 374 00:24:40.040 --> 00:24:40.760 And why. 375 00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:49.359 But even if there was physical abuse, that doesn't justify 376 00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:52.040 an adoption. If Essa didn't know what was going. 377 00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:56.200 On, she must understand some English. I think she does. 378 00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:08.080 In playing this, she says she understands a few words, 379 00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:10.840 but everything you're saying she doesn't, and we've also been 380 00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:12.840 with her at her house and she doesn't understand her sons. 381 00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:16.679 Michael says that what he eventually understood was that Teresa 382 00:25:16.800 --> 00:25:19.120 was giving up her youngest child because she was poor, 383 00:25:19.560 --> 00:25:21.280 and that she wanted to get child support from her 384 00:25:21.320 --> 00:25:25.480 ex partner, the father of her four older children. Teresa 385 00:25:25.520 --> 00:25:29.119 says she never said this, but Michael is adamant that 386 00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:32.760 in her gestures, in her nodding, and in whatever interpretation, 387 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:35.919 he was told that this is the other reason Teresa 388 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.320 gave up her child for adoption. 389 00:25:38.040 --> 00:25:42.480 I think sincerely that my idea was that she she 390 00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:46.520 wanted this adoption to go through, very much excited, and 391 00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:49.560 merely from the expressions, if she didn't understand, on her face, 392 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:52.280 was to make sure this thing went through as quickly 393 00:25:52.320 --> 00:25:54.720 as possible. And I think she was driving force for this. 394 00:25:55.840 --> 00:25:58.280 I believe in my heart that she was. Now she's 395 00:25:58.280 --> 00:26:01.800 saying she's not, then something's wrong. Okay, maybe there's a 396 00:26:01.840 --> 00:26:04.000 lapse in memory. I'm not calling her liar. I'm just 397 00:26:04.040 --> 00:26:07.159 saying that this is my understanding, and it was expressions 398 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:10.320 on her face. She was all smiles. She's not smiles now, 399 00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:13.240 I'm sorry, So. 400 00:26:13.320 --> 00:26:15.800 I guess I'm just yeah, no, I understand that. 401 00:26:15.840 --> 00:26:19.399