WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.400 --> 00:00:04.760 Mexico and the US know very well the danger that 2 00:00:04.800 --> 00:00:08.440 these people are facing their own countries, knowing that they 3 00:00:08.520 --> 00:00:10.880 made a plan to put these people in some of 4 00:00:10.920 --> 00:00:14.800 the most dangerous places in Mexico. So something that we 5 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:20.760 learned and this report shows is the dark side of humanity. 6 00:00:28.600 --> 00:00:31.640 From Futuro Media, it's let you know usay. I'm Maria 7 00:00:31.680 --> 00:00:35.640 inn Posa. Today in Lavoca de Lobo, in the Mouth 8 00:00:35.800 --> 00:00:39.720 of the Wolf, we hear from Mexican researchers about Mexico's 9 00:00:39.760 --> 00:00:46.800 failure to protect asylum seekers stuck waiting. This week, President 10 00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:50.000 Joe Biden was inaugurated as the forty six president of 11 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:54.240 the United States. High on his legislative agenda are promises 12 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:58.080 to reform the country's immigration system and to attempt to 13 00:00:58.160 --> 00:01:02.880 undo Donald Trump's most controvert policies. One of those policies 14 00:01:03.080 --> 00:01:08.000 is the Migrant Protection Protocols known as MPP or the 15 00:01:08.080 --> 00:01:12.320 Remain in Mexico policy. Under the program, established in January 16 00:01:12.360 --> 00:01:17.039 of twenty nineteen, nearly sixty eight thousand asylum seekers have 17 00:01:17.160 --> 00:01:20.880 been ordered to wait in Mexico as their asylum cases 18 00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:24.760 make their way through the US system. The weight can 19 00:01:24.800 --> 00:01:28.920 often take years now, and it can often be deadly. 20 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:32.880 In fact, that's what I witnessed last year when Latino 21 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:37.280 USA visited what is in Mexico's northern border and later 22 00:01:37.360 --> 00:01:41.199 on Dapachula all the way on the southern border with Guatemala. 23 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:44.280 I was there to meet with asylum seekers who were 24 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:47.880 living in shelters and in parks on the streets, and 25 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:52.160 with Mexican government officials who denied working with the United 26 00:01:52.160 --> 00:01:57.120 States on immigration policy, even when we were witnessing taking 27 00:01:57.160 --> 00:01:58.960 place right in front of our eyes. 28 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:09.679 CBP receive adies personas o nos cameos and illumero bentiocho. 29 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:14.000 CBP will see ten people today, number nineteen thousand, four 30 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:17.440 hundred and twenty eight. A Mexican official calls this out 31 00:02:17.480 --> 00:02:18.600 to a large room. 32 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:22.720 Quatra pjuatrocentos trenta. 33 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:26.600 The person holding the number approaches the official to say 34 00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:27.240 that they're here. 35 00:02:27.800 --> 00:02:35.200 Quatrocentos trent You know quatros quatrores quat. 36 00:02:39.720 --> 00:02:43.720 Mexican officials won't admit on the record that they're managing 37 00:02:43.760 --> 00:02:47.000 the list. They know that working with the US on 38 00:02:47.040 --> 00:02:52.920 this would be controversial. In our two part series The 39 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:56.359 Moving Border, we broke down the ways that Mexico had 40 00:02:56.400 --> 00:03:01.040 become integral in Trump's plan to build the border, even 41 00:03:01.160 --> 00:03:04.280 if the actual border wall was a paper one built 42 00:03:04.320 --> 00:03:09.840 on seemingly impenetrable policies. The asylum seekers I met in 43 00:03:09.880 --> 00:03:15.240 Mexico shared harrowing stories of crime and abuse, and vulnerability 44 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:20.200 and desperation, both at the hands of criminals and of 45 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:24.320 the police and authorities while waiting in border towns, and 46 00:03:24.440 --> 00:03:27.040 all of this coupled with the fear of being deported 47 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:31.360 by the country that was supposed to be offering them protection. 48 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:37.920 After Mexico boasted about its highest number ever of deportations 49 00:03:38.040 --> 00:03:42.200 in twenty nineteen, a group of Mexican researchers and migrant 50 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:46.119 advocates set out to document just how extensive the involvement 51 00:03:46.160 --> 00:03:49.160 has been between the United States and Mexico and how 52 00:03:49.200 --> 00:03:53.360 this collaborative effort allows policies like the Remain in Mexico 53 00:03:53.480 --> 00:03:57.680 program to flourish. Their research is published in a new 54 00:03:57.720 --> 00:04:01.160 report titled in La Boca de Lobo in the Mouth 55 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:04.480 of the Wolf, and it was released last month. Our 56 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:08.240 guests today join us from Mexico City. They're Alicia Moncada, 57 00:04:08.320 --> 00:04:11.880 who's a human rights investigator at the Foundation for Justice 58 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:15.440 and the Democratic State of law and Gretchen Kuhner, who's 59 00:04:15.520 --> 00:04:19.520 director of the Institute for Women in Migration and welcome 60 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:21.960 Alicia and Gretchen to Latin New USA. 61 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:24.440 Thank you so much, Maria, so that both. 62 00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:26.520 Of you were part of a group of Mexican researchers 63 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:31.719 that led an investigation into the lasting effects of this 64 00:04:31.960 --> 00:04:37.080 so called Remain in Mexico program, which essentially forces asylum 65 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:42.160 seekers to wait in Mexico even though they're actually seeking 66 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:46.120 asylum in the United States. Why was it so important 67 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:48.680 for you to look into this issue right now? 68 00:04:48.880 --> 00:04:52.159 Well, Maria, the US and Mexico have been pushing migrant 69 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:56.640 policies against the most vulnerable people in our region, people 70 00:04:56.640 --> 00:04:59.080 who are running from the danger that they face in 71 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:02.679 their home countries, people who are seeking for international protection 72 00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:05.840 so they can stay alive. In this report, we document 73 00:05:06.080 --> 00:05:10.200 how the US Mexico Joined Declaration and the Migration Agreement, 74 00:05:10.760 --> 00:05:14.239 as well as these Remaining Mexico program are having human 75 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:18.840 effects in terms of human rights violations against assidum seekers. 76 00:05:18.960 --> 00:05:21.720 Some of these cities on the States have been recognized 77 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:25.640 as the most violent places in Mexico, like Tamaulipas, places 78 00:05:25.640 --> 00:05:30.359 where the US Department does not recommend that American citizens visit. 79 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:34.680 So in this report we document cases of violence and 80 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:40.680 serious crimes against these people, such as murder, kidnapping, disappearance, 81 00:05:41.520 --> 00:05:45.840 and multiple forms of gender violence. The Mexican government had 82 00:05:45.880 --> 00:05:49.520 promised temporary permission for these people to remain in Mexico 83 00:05:49.960 --> 00:05:53.239 as well as the rights to jobs, health and educations 84 00:05:53.320 --> 00:05:57.279 while they await the outcomes of their assylum process, but 85 00:05:57.480 --> 00:06:02.839 has not fulfilled these commitments. So literally they are in 86 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:04.119 the mouth of the world. 87 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:08.760 What kind of danger are we talking about when we're 88 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:12.640 talking about these refugees being in La Boco. 89 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:16.599 So we've had cases, you know, of people who are 90 00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:22.119 in MPP and many of the cases that we've represented, 91 00:06:22.279 --> 00:06:25.840 the people have been kidnapped, We had a young girl 92 00:06:25.880 --> 00:06:29.920 who was sexually assaulted, and some people have you know, 93 00:06:29.960 --> 00:06:34.080 even been murdered. The title of the document comes from 94 00:06:34.080 --> 00:06:36.200 a direct quote from one of the asylum seekers that 95 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:39.520 we interviewed, and I think that he was talking about 96 00:06:39.520 --> 00:06:43.119 the situation at that time in Nuevo Laredo where people 97 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:47.200 were being sent back and literally from the immigration offices 98 00:06:47.200 --> 00:06:49.400 in Mexico. They were being sent to a bus station 99 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:53.120 and the kidnappers were there waiting for them. And what 100 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:58.000 happens is that people are taken to homes in remote 101 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:01.640 places and then they're family members in the United States 102 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:06.520 are contacted, and so we started collecting some videos and 103 00:07:06.760 --> 00:07:10.080 audio tapes of the families would take in the US 104 00:07:10.760 --> 00:07:13.320 of the kidnappers talking to them and telling where to 105 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:14.000 send them money. 106 00:07:14.840 --> 00:07:18.360 You spent a year in research talking with people. I mean, 107 00:07:18.520 --> 00:07:20.880 you were prepared to hear some of the horror stories, 108 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:23.000 but was there something that just really took you aback. 109 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:25.960 Mexico and the US know very well the danger that 110 00:07:25.960 --> 00:07:29.200 these people are facing their own countries, and knowing that 111 00:07:29.440 --> 00:07:31.920 they made a plan to put these people in some 112 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:35.640 of the most dangerous places in Mexico. So something that 113 00:07:35.960 --> 00:07:40.679 we learned and this report shows is the dark side 114 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:44.800 of humanity. Remind us of the very dangerous periods of 115 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:48.720 history where those in powered desire, who deserve to live, 116 00:07:48.840 --> 00:07:53.080 and who deserve to die or live under these inhuman conditions. 117 00:07:53.400 --> 00:07:55.920 And we saw the courage of boys, girls, mothers and 118 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:58.360 fathers that are trying hard to save their life and 119 00:07:58.400 --> 00:08:02.760 their families. So we wanted to expose this consequence, the 120 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:06.600 consequences of remain in Mexico, and that is definitely a 121 00:08:06.640 --> 00:08:10.640 measure and was designed to make legal processes more difficult. 122 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:13.760 We are also very surprised by the complicity of the 123 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:17.440 Mexican government in the strategy created by the Trauma administration. 124 00:08:17.960 --> 00:08:21.080 And one of the things that was most surprising to 125 00:08:21.200 --> 00:08:24.920 me was the Mexican government started paying for buses to 126 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:28.960 basically ship people to the Mexican Guatemalan border where they 127 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:31.840 could self deport. I mean, they did everything except to 128 00:08:31.880 --> 00:08:34.320 push them back over the border. And the reason that 129 00:08:34.400 --> 00:08:36.280 they said that they were doing this is because people 130 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:40.600 were in so much danger, especially in Monterrey because of 131 00:08:40.640 --> 00:08:41.520 the kidnappings. 132 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:45.240 Did you find that Mexico violated any of its own 133 00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:50.520 national laws or international laws in the remain in Mexico policy. 134 00:08:50.920 --> 00:08:56.319 So the MPP program is basically like a transfer agreement, 135 00:08:56.640 --> 00:09:01.000 and transfer agreements internationally when they occur or have to 136 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:06.200 include guarantees for due process. What we found was that 137 00:09:06.679 --> 00:09:10.880 Mexico knew that this agreement was going to violate due 138 00:09:10.880 --> 00:09:14.040 process right. What's a due process right That you have 139 00:09:14.160 --> 00:09:17.760 information that you understand your procedure, that you can have 140 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:22.320 access to legal representation, that you can have communication that 141 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:25.400 you know things are explained to you in your own 142 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:30.720 language that you have, you know, time to explain what 143 00:09:30.800 --> 00:09:34.040 has happened to you, why you left, that you're in conditions, 144 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:37.240 you know, and what you're not, you know, completely terrified 145 00:09:37.280 --> 00:09:40.400 for your own life while you're trying to apply for 146 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:43.800 asylum at the same time. And so what we did 147 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:48.880 was we filed a lawsuit in April of twenty nineteen, 148 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:54.240 you know, against the Mexican government's participation in an MPP 149 00:09:55.240 --> 00:09:58.080 which is now sitting at the Mexican Supreme Court. 150 00:09:58.960 --> 00:09:59.880 And we are are. 151 00:10:00.040 --> 00:10:05.400 Doing that Mexico violated due process rights, non rufumont guarantees 152 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:09.720 and family unity and a whole string of other rights 153 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:12.080 that people would have just as basic human rights, such 154 00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:17.679 as access to housing, healthcare, education for their children. And 155 00:10:17.760 --> 00:10:21.280 so that lawsuit is sitting there now. And as Alicia says, 156 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:25.160 you know, we've also filed litigation against, you know, the 157 00:10:25.280 --> 00:10:29.840 legality of a national guard participating in immigration enforcement actions, 158 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:33.000 and that's sitting at the Mexican Supreme Court as well. 159 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:37.480 So I think that the violations of the Mexican Constitution 160 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:39.480 and other laws is very clear. 161 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:48.000 Coming up on Latino USA, the rise of COVID nineteen 162 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:53.360 and how Mexico's populis president, who once campaigned for migrants' rights, 163 00:10:53.920 --> 00:11:41.840 has set a new record for deportations. Stay with us, Yes, hey, 164 00:11:41.920 --> 00:11:48.800 we're back. Before the break, we were speaking with Mexican 165 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:53.280 researchers Alicia Monada and Gretchen Kuhner about their new report 166 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:56.600 titled La Boca the Lobo The Mouth of the Wolf. 167 00:11:57.040 --> 00:12:00.240 It breaks down the ways Trump's so called Remain in 168 00:12:00.280 --> 00:12:04.840 Mexico policy has placed asylum seekers in life threatening danger 169 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:13.640 as they wait for their US cases in Mexico. When 170 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:15.920 we were down in Mexico reporting one year ago in 171 00:12:15.920 --> 00:12:17.960 the beginning of twenty twenty, we had no idea what 172 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:22.120 was about to come. And COVID nineteen really has altered 173 00:12:22.280 --> 00:12:25.280 everything in the entire world, but very specifically. One of 174 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:28.320 the things that you mentioned in your report is that 175 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:32.000 various health organizations are citing the failure of the Mexican 176 00:12:32.040 --> 00:12:36.959 government to specifically protect asylum seekers from exposure to COVID 177 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.160 as they are forced to wait in Mexico. So, how 178 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:43.480 has COVID nineteen basically changed the picture. 179 00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:47.079 One of the things that the US did in March 180 00:12:47.880 --> 00:12:52.160 was to start implementing this Center for Disease Control Order 181 00:12:52.520 --> 00:12:57.679 allowing the US government to expel people immediately who were 182 00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:01.680 crossing the border, and then Mexico co agreed to accept 183 00:13:01.880 --> 00:13:06.120 up to one hundred Central Americans per day as part 184 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:10.360 of those people being expelled. That was a pretext for 185 00:13:10.760 --> 00:13:13.960 you know, allowing the US to send people back without 186 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:19.480 having asylum screening, just this like summary expulsions. And the 187 00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:24.320 Mexican government has also participated, you know, by accepting Central 188 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.760 Americans and then detaining them and lots of times supporting them. 189 00:13:29.160 --> 00:13:32.480 People who are in MPP who have also had their 190 00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:36.440 hearings postponed until further notice. And so you have twenty 191 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:39.800 four thousand people who are still in proceedings right now 192 00:13:39.880 --> 00:13:43.640 under MPP, you know, who have had their hearings postponed, 193 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:46.439 and so that's been a horrible thing for them because 194 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:49.839 they've had to wait out, you know, the whole entire 195 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:54.880 process in Mexico with COVID, you know, some of them 196 00:13:54.920 --> 00:13:57.760 living in shelters, and with those people who are an 197 00:13:57.800 --> 00:14:01.680 MPP who have managed to work and rent rooms, some 198 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:03.440 of them have lost their jobs and then they've tried 199 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:05.840 to go to shelters, but the shelters are then closed 200 00:14:05.880 --> 00:14:10.800 as well because of COVID, and so it's been a horrible, 201 00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:15.120 horrible situation for you know, people waiting under MPP because 202 00:14:15.160 --> 00:14:17.920 I don't have anywhere to go. It's been impossible for 203 00:14:18.040 --> 00:14:20.240 us to know, you know, what's happening in terms of 204 00:14:20.280 --> 00:14:23.760 how many people have actually had COVID nineteen who are 205 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:28.800 in MPP. But you know, Mexico has basically been under 206 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:32.480 lockdown since March and the states along the border where 207 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:36.960 people are waiting are still under this you know, level 208 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:40.800 of alert that's very high. But the Mexican government hasn't 209 00:14:40.880 --> 00:14:44.200 had a specific program to help people in terms of 210 00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:45.560 you know, accessing healthcare. 211 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:49.240 How much is it actually a part of Mexican history 212 00:14:49.280 --> 00:14:53.600 to treat asylum seekers in this way or is this 213 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:57.440 is this new in a response to this particular set 214 00:14:57.480 --> 00:14:58.520 of policies right now. 215 00:14:58.920 --> 00:15:02.800 The issue of immigrants has been on the bilateral agenda 216 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:06.480 for decades and decades, and what's changed is that Central 217 00:15:06.520 --> 00:15:10.920 Americans have been leaving, especially Guatemala, hunters and El Salvador, 218 00:15:11.520 --> 00:15:15.359 in much bigger numbers, and that these people are refugees. 219 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:18.600 You know, this whole issue of treating people like criminals 220 00:15:18.640 --> 00:15:22.160 because they're fleeing from violence is something that I think 221 00:15:22.280 --> 00:15:25.440 in our imaginations we have to change. These are people 222 00:15:25.520 --> 00:15:28.320 who they are not able to live in their countries 223 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:31.080 any longer, and so there must be something, you know, 224 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:34.720 that we can do collectively to help these people. Mexico 225 00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:37.640 has an asylum system, and they actually have sixty five 226 00:15:37.680 --> 00:15:40.800 thousand cases that are pending as well, and the number 227 00:15:40.880 --> 00:15:44.200 of people from Central America you know, who are requesting 228 00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:47.600 asylum or applying for asylum in Mexico has also gone 229 00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:51.040 up tremendously in the last several years. 230 00:15:51.520 --> 00:15:53.520 So one of the things that we were looking at 231 00:15:53.640 --> 00:15:56.440 when we did our series of reports was the shift 232 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.520 from Mexican President Manuel Lopez o Radord and his campaign 233 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:05.560 promises of humane protection for asylum seekers. And then compare 234 00:16:05.560 --> 00:16:11.640 that to what actually happened, which essentially is a partnership 235 00:16:11.640 --> 00:16:15.320 of sorts between a so called leftist president Andres Manuel 236 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:20.600 Lopez o Brador and President Trump. And that sounds like 237 00:16:20.640 --> 00:16:23.320 a bit of a strange kind of partnership, and yet 238 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:27.600 in fact it has occurred and it has allowed these 239 00:16:27.640 --> 00:16:30.320 policies essentially to flourish. 240 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:35.840 So what happened, the Mexican government explanation is the possible 241 00:16:35.920 --> 00:16:40.360 danger to our economy This is because the trudministration trending 242 00:16:40.560 --> 00:16:45.600 to impose this stariff on Mexican sports if Mexico did 243 00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:48.880 not stop the migratory flow to the United States. It 244 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:52.840 was within this context that the US Mexico Declaration was born. 245 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:58.720 This ultimatic forced Mexico to choose between these severe economic 246 00:16:58.760 --> 00:17:04.960 ratifications or continue human rights violations against migrants, and sadly, 247 00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:09.400 they chose the latter. Mexico decide to use the most 248 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:13.480 lethal force the army, to detain at the antiport migrants. 249 00:17:13.800 --> 00:17:16.720 As a result, we are seeing a huge increase of 250 00:17:16.760 --> 00:17:21.360 migrant deportation without any considerations of their needs for international protection. 251 00:17:21.840 --> 00:17:26.200 We are seeing that Mexico is collaborating to build Trump's 252 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:26.840 border world. 253 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:32.680 Yeah, and so let's talk about the wall. What does 254 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:36.800 exist now is an extraordinary militarization of the border and 255 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:42.399 essentially looking at people seeking asylum through a prism of 256 00:17:42.520 --> 00:17:47.320 essentially national security as opposed to what it is, which 257 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:50.560 is a human rights issue. President Trump deployed thousands of 258 00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:54.720 troops to the southern US border. You know, this is 259 00:17:55.040 --> 00:17:56.960 along the time when we were hearing about the so 260 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:02.440 called caravans that was followed by by Mexican President Armlo's 261 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:07.760 own deployment of the newly created Guardia national to assist 262 00:18:07.840 --> 00:18:15.000 in immigration enforcement in Mexico's own southern border. So increasingly Mexico, 263 00:18:15.600 --> 00:18:19.720 it seems to me, is mirroring the United States in 264 00:18:19.800 --> 00:18:24.119 terms of its immigration policies. So do you perceive the 265 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:24.720 same thing. 266 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:30.520 So what happened in twoy eighteen, the phenomenon of the 267 00:18:30.560 --> 00:18:35.680 caravans allowed Trump to justify this militarization plan. He sent 268 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:39.440 the US and more than five thousand, two hundred military 269 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:45.000 soldiers in this operation, focusing on the borders of Texas, Arizona, 270 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.560 and California. For the same reason, we call say that 271 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:53.560 Mexico decided to send more than six thousand members of 272 00:18:53.600 --> 00:18:58.320 the National Guard to the border shared by Mexico Gatemala 273 00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:04.320 in June of nineteen, and before the month was over, 274 00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:10.640 the Mexico sent fifty thousand soldiers and police agents to 275 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:13.840 the southern border because of this commitment with the United 276 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:18.199 States to reduce the flow of migrants. And now we 277 00:19:18.320 --> 00:19:22.240 have more than two one hundred and fifty thousand soldiers 278 00:19:22.280 --> 00:19:27.359 employed because of the execution of this containment strategy for 279 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:33.840 COVID nineteen. So the increase. The increased military presence generates 280 00:19:34.600 --> 00:19:40.800 many negative consequences for migrants, including death and greater limitation 281 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:44.280 of their human rights, especially in the portation in terms 282 00:19:44.320 --> 00:19:49.240 of deportation. By December of twenty nineteen, the Mexican authorities 283 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:55.000 proudly stated that the National Guard have facilitated the reduction 284 00:19:55.280 --> 00:20:00.159 of the most important migratory flow in recent decades, a 285 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:06.080 reduction rate of seventy percent. So we know that in 286 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:10.920 twenty nineteen Mexico broke its historical record of deportation. It 287 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:14.840 is because of this massive deployer of the National Goal. 288 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:20.800 Right, So I have a feeling that the Mexican president 289 00:20:22.800 --> 00:20:25.760 would probably take offense and not like it at all 290 00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:30.320 when you say that he has actually built and become 291 00:20:30.800 --> 00:20:31.680 Trump's border wall. 292 00:20:32.040 --> 00:20:34.680 Yeah. When you talk to the Mexican government, what they 293 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:38.120 say is that it was a new government and they 294 00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:42.080 were receiving a lot of pressure from the Trump administration 295 00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:45.760 to sign as a third country agreement, and so MPP 296 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:49.480 was something that was offered kind of as Okay, this 297 00:20:49.520 --> 00:20:51.520 is what we'll give you because we're not going to 298 00:20:51.560 --> 00:20:54.520 sign a say, third country agreement. And I think that 299 00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:59.000 along the way, the instruction from Manuel O Peese, Brodor was, 300 00:20:59.800 --> 00:21:02.560 we are not going to enter into any type of 301 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:06.959 escalation or controversy with President Trump, and so we are 302 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:09.840 going to do what we need to do to you know, 303 00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:14.480 make sure that there's no tension between her countries. And 304 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:17.520 if that takes, you know, sending out the national Guard 305 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:20.640 to stop people from coming in, then that's what we'll 306 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:23.479 have to do because there are you know, other issues 307 00:21:23.520 --> 00:21:25.960 such as the economy that are at stake. 308 00:21:26.520 --> 00:21:28.679 All right, So a few days after your report was 309 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:32.840 published in Mexico, the President of Mexico, Lopez Bradora, was 310 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:35.280 asked by a local reporter about it. He said he 311 00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:38.040 wasn't aware of the report and then added that Mexico 312 00:21:38.080 --> 00:21:41.919 has always protected asylum seekers. Then he also said that 313 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.080 Mexico never had a deal with the United States in 314 00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:48.440 terms of immigration. Here's a clip from his response. 315 00:21:52.800 --> 00:22:04.960 No, it's the funa, this is you and innings nada 316 00:22:06.560 --> 00:22:15.000 almost not almost colonia, the num loss. 317 00:22:15.080 --> 00:22:18.720 Mexico is doing what it wants. He says, we're not puppets, 318 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:21.439 We're not a colony, and then he actually goes on 319 00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:24.360 to say something else. He says, basically, he's really happy 320 00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:27.680 with what's happening. In terms of the remaining Mexico policy, 321 00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:31.760 because then he says that now the Mexican government is 322 00:22:31.840 --> 00:22:37.440 actually protecting migrants, taking care of them like they weren't 323 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:39.480 taking care of before. 324 00:22:42.800 --> 00:22:51.760 Dio phenomenon migratorio no a la vido comantis says sinatus 325 00:22:51.800 --> 00:23:01.000 migrantis comoa andormente pour que no are You're not politica, 326 00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:02.960 you know'st here. 327 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:06.159 I mean, for those of us who have been on 328 00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:09.480 the ground and who have spoken to people seeking asylum 329 00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:12.640 and on the borders, this is a very different way 330 00:23:12.680 --> 00:23:15.520 of seeing the world. What do you want to say 331 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:19.280 to President Lopez o Rador and his reaction to your 332 00:23:19.320 --> 00:23:21.479 own fact finding report. 333 00:23:21.800 --> 00:23:25.480 It's really unfortunate because he has a total disconnect with reality. 334 00:23:26.040 --> 00:23:28.240 And I mean, I think for the organizations that are 335 00:23:28.280 --> 00:23:31.160 working on the ground or working on litigation in Mexico, 336 00:23:31.800 --> 00:23:33.800 you know, it's something that we're used to hearing. It's 337 00:23:33.840 --> 00:23:36.879 because of pressure we you know, comply with human rights. 338 00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:38.880 Those are the kinds of you know, rhetoric that we're 339 00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:41.480 used to listening to. You know, we're not political. We 340 00:23:41.600 --> 00:23:46.080 transcend administrations, presidents, et cetera. But you know, for the 341 00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:50.439 people who have been kidnapped the people who have been raped, 342 00:23:50.600 --> 00:23:52.919 the people who have been separated from their families, the 343 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:56.119 people who have been suffering. I just think that, you know, 344 00:23:56.160 --> 00:24:01.080 it's just a tremendous insult and I don't know even 345 00:24:01.080 --> 00:24:04.680 know what the word is, non recognition, negation of Actually 346 00:24:04.760 --> 00:24:08.440 you know what the Mexican government has cost by complying 347 00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:12.040 with MPP. I mean, at no point they said this 348 00:24:12.080 --> 00:24:14.080 is too much, you know, we can't do it anymore. 349 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:16.000 We have to fix this problem. There are so many 350 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:18.879 things that they could have done along the way to 351 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:22.119 push back, and the Mexican government hasn't done that. And 352 00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:24.880 so the only way that we can think of for 353 00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:28.439 the Mexican government to have any kind of consequences for 354 00:24:28.560 --> 00:24:31.480 this whole situation is through the litigation. And the other 355 00:24:31.520 --> 00:24:35.760 thing that we decided to do was to file federal 356 00:24:35.800 --> 00:24:38.480 criminal complaint, which we also filed the same day that 357 00:24:38.520 --> 00:24:41.560 we presented the report, because we just felt like there 358 00:24:41.560 --> 00:24:45.320 were so many people who had been kidnapped or who 359 00:24:45.320 --> 00:24:48.960 had been raped and never had the opportunity to file 360 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:52.440 a criminal complaint locally because they were so scared. 361 00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:56.119 We've been talking about what Mexico can and should do, 362 00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:01.040 but really in terms of these polici. It starts in 363 00:25:01.080 --> 00:25:05.120 the United States. Let's talk for a moment about what 364 00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:08.879 you would like to see the Biden administration do in 365 00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:13.320 terms of actually helping to have an impact on the 366 00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:15.680 lives of people who right now are stuck in Mexico. 367 00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:19.160 The first thing to do would be to eliminate the program, 368 00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:21.560 that is, to stop sending people back so that there 369 00:25:21.600 --> 00:25:26.000 aren't any more new cases. And then with the approximately 370 00:25:26.040 --> 00:25:28.920 twenty four thousand people whose cases are still open, who 371 00:25:29.080 --> 00:25:33.639 probably living along the Mexico US border, what we would 372 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:36.320 like to see happen is for the US government to 373 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.720 paroll those people in so that they can wait out 374 00:25:40.840 --> 00:25:44.040 their cases, their asylum cases within the United States. And 375 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:47.400 then we would also hope that all of the people 376 00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:50.800 who had to abandon their case but are still in 377 00:25:50.840 --> 00:25:54.440 the system, we're hoping that the Biden administration can give 378 00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:58.879 those people another opportunity to seek asylum in the US. 379 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:03.480 What's your reaction to President Biden saying you're going to 380 00:26:03.560 --> 00:26:07.960 have to wait for potentially six more months to be 381 00:26:08.040 --> 00:26:11.840 in a situation that many of these people seeking asylums 382 00:26:11.840 --> 00:26:15.000 say is just untenable and frightening and scary. 383 00:26:16.080 --> 00:26:18.880 I would say to President Biden that MPP, the people 384 00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.440 who are waiting under MPP have already waited much much 385 00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:27.080 longer than any asylum claim would normally take, and they're 386 00:26:27.080 --> 00:26:31.479 living in these precarious, horrible conditions, and that ending MPP 387 00:26:31.760 --> 00:26:34.119 in particular has to be a priority. 388 00:26:34.760 --> 00:26:38.240 I think, adding to what Gretchen said, one of the 389 00:26:38.560 --> 00:26:42.000 Bident concerns is racial justice. Now, this is also a 390 00:26:42.080 --> 00:26:46.199 racial justice issue. We are talking about guaranteed rights to 391 00:26:46.280 --> 00:26:49.439 people who have historically been denied the rights and that 392 00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:54.600 are escaping discrimination and inequalities. So my hope is that 393 00:26:55.040 --> 00:26:59.359 if the racial justice is a concern, will take this 394 00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:03.240 situation with Remaining Mexico in consideration. Now is the time 395 00:27:03.320 --> 00:27:04.159 for dismounting this. 396 00:27:07.080 --> 00:27:09.320 Alicia and Gretchen, thank you so much for speaking with 397 00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:12.360 me and for doing this very important work. I really 398 00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:13.040 appreciate it. 399 00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:14.440 Thank you, Madie, thank you. 400 00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:19.520 And we have a very important update that took place 401 00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:23.720