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<v Speaker 1>This is Latino USA, the radio journal of News and

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<v Speaker 1>Courture's Latino usc L Latino USA. I'm Maria Inojosa. We

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<v Speaker 1>bring you stories that are underreported but that mattered to you,

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<v Speaker 1>overlooked by the rest of the media, and while the

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<v Speaker 1>country is struggling to deal with these, we listen to

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<v Speaker 1>the stories of black and Latino Studio United, Latino Front,

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<v Speaker 1>a cultural renaissance organizing at the forefront of the movement.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Maria Ino Jossa nose Bayan. Hey, Latino USA, listener, Gomostas,

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<v Speaker 1>here's a show from Los Archivos.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was with two uncles and a cousin and

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<v Speaker 2>we were heading down to Miami for vacation.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Roland Sylvain and what he's talking about happened

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<v Speaker 1>almost twenty years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we're having a good song. Listen to music.

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<v Speaker 1>He's feeling good, sailing down the open road going about

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<v Speaker 1>eighty two miles an hour, which is more than the

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<v Speaker 1>speed limit. And as he's cruising through Virginia, a police

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<v Speaker 1>car pulls up behind him.

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<v Speaker 2>I just hear the signs behind me, so I just

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<v Speaker 2>pull over. And when I pulled up, I said, oh, man,

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<v Speaker 2>like I'm gonna get in some serious shof because I

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<v Speaker 2>don't have my license on me, and all the guys

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<v Speaker 2>are like, what what are you talking about? D da

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<v Speaker 2>da da da, And I'm like, I mean, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I have my licen but I'm suspended.

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<v Speaker 1>From Fuduro media and BrX. It's Latino USA. I'm Marienno

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<v Speaker 1>Posa Today how a little known change in immigration policy

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<v Speaker 1>could turn a man's traffic stop into a life sentence.

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<v Speaker 1>Roland Sylvain was born in Haiti, though by the time

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<v Speaker 1>of his birth in nineteen seventy eight, most of his

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<v Speaker 1>family had one foot out of the country.

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<v Speaker 2>My grandfather actually was the one that started it. He

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<v Speaker 2>had issues in Haiti for political reasons and things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>His grandfather's problems started during the brutal dictatorship of President

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<v Speaker 1>Francois du Vallier, who's usually known as Papa Doc.

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<v Speaker 2>Papa Doc allowed no political descent while he ruled.

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<v Speaker 1>The mortality rate of political prisoners reportedly was the worst.

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<v Speaker 2>In the world.

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<v Speaker 1>He and his son, known as Baby Doc, ruled over

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<v Speaker 1>Haiti from the late nineteen fifties till the mid nineteen eighties.

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<v Speaker 3>For the first time in nearly thirty years of Duvalier dictatorships.

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<v Speaker 2>Haitians are talking openly about overthrowing their leader.

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<v Speaker 1>Roland doesn't know exactly what went wrong, but by the

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<v Speaker 1>time he was born, his grandfather was building a new

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<v Speaker 1>life for himself in New York City. He was one

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<v Speaker 1>of tens of thousands of Haitians who came to the

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<v Speaker 1>US around that time.

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<v Speaker 4>Patients have been fleeing there Ireland, claiming to be refugees

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<v Speaker 4>from political repression.

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<v Speaker 1>Within a few years, Roland's grandfather got settled and was

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<v Speaker 1>able to bring the rest of his family to New

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<v Speaker 1>York legally. And so in December of nineteen eighty five,

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<v Speaker 1>little seven year old Roland boarded a place in shorts

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<v Speaker 1>and a T shirt and flew to John F. Kennedy

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<v Speaker 1>Airport in New York City. And given the time of

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<v Speaker 1>the year, New York City was a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a shock.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't know what it was, puzzled worldhere it was

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<v Speaker 2>that freezing.

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<v Speaker 1>But then a bunch of his relatives pulled up in a.

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<v Speaker 2>Really big van and they had to run at one

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<v Speaker 2>of the stores inside the airport and get us colts.

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<v Speaker 1>They bundled him up and welcomed Roland to America. From

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<v Speaker 1>the moment he arrived in the US. Roland was a legal,

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<v Speaker 1>permanent resident, and his life became very American very quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>After a couple of years living in Brooklyn, his parents

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<v Speaker 1>moved him and his siblings to the New Jersey suburbs.

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<v Speaker 1>Roland finished high school and got a job at a

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<v Speaker 1>chemical plant.

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<v Speaker 2>Became the manager there. Everybody loved me because I was

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<v Speaker 2>the youngest guy. It's a job.

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<v Speaker 1>He started making good money. Then after nine to eleven,

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<v Speaker 1>he got laid off for a while, which someone else

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<v Speaker 1>might have seen as a glass half empty kind of situation,

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<v Speaker 1>but Roland he saw freedom.

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<v Speaker 2>I just had fun. I had my full one K.

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<v Speaker 2>I was loaded, so I took my full one K.

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<v Speaker 2>He took off on the road, kept going back and

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<v Speaker 2>forth to.

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<v Speaker 1>Montreal, Miami, Atlanta.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Texas. I did Texas a few times. I was

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<v Speaker 2>a teenager, so I was just enjoying myself.

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<v Speaker 1>And it was on one of these trips that Roland

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<v Speaker 1>got pulled over for speeding. This traffic stop and the

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<v Speaker 1>events that followed would lead Roland's story to collide a

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<v Speaker 1>few years later with another man's, a teenager whose unusual

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<v Speaker 1>journey through the United States immigration system has derailed tens

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<v Speaker 1>of thousands of people's lives. We're going to tell you

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<v Speaker 1>both of their stories because the trouble Roland got into

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<v Speaker 1>is still haunting him now. It's threatening almost everything he

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<v Speaker 1>assumed to be true about his life, and he isn't

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<v Speaker 1>the only one. Our story today is reported in collaboration

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<v Speaker 1>with Documented, a local immigration publication. Here in New York City,

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<v Speaker 1>reporters Mazin Sidakhmed and Max Sigelbaum teamed up with Latino

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<v Speaker 1>USA producer Alissa Escarse to follow Roland's story. Masin Sidakhmed

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<v Speaker 1>is going to pick up the story here.

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<v Speaker 5>Roland says his license has been suspended over an unpaid

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<v Speaker 5>parking ticket about a week before he left for Miami,

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<v Speaker 5>and he knew he shouldn't have been driving.

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<v Speaker 2>But my uncles they were all like dead tired, So

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, okay, fine, I'll tell y'all drive.

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<v Speaker 5>He was driving his uncle black Mercedes Benz and at

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<v Speaker 5>the moment he heard the officer's siren go off, he

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<v Speaker 5>was driving through Virginia, specifically Hanover County, Virginia, which is

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<v Speaker 5>pretty conservative in eighty four percent whites.

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<v Speaker 2>From the time I saw the police officer turn on

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<v Speaker 2>his lights. I said, up, yep, in this bens four

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<v Speaker 2>black guys. This is the reason why we getting pulled over.

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<v Speaker 5>But of course he pulled over. The officer asked him

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<v Speaker 5>to get out of the car, and Roland started panicking.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm scared as hell. And then and then he handed

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<v Speaker 2>me over the three tickets.

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<v Speaker 5>Roland remembers one being for speeding, one for not having

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<v Speaker 5>his seatbelt on, and one for not having a proper ID.

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<v Speaker 5>And in that moment, Roland made a split second decision

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<v Speaker 5>to sign the tickets using his cousin's name.

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<v Speaker 2>So I signed the first two tickets and when I

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<v Speaker 2>got to the third ticket to go sign, I just

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<v Speaker 2>I just confessed the office dude, I'm so sorry. I

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<v Speaker 2>just panicked.

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<v Speaker 5>I lied. My name is Roland, Roland says. The officer

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<v Speaker 5>turned around and he said, you just.

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<v Speaker 2>Earned yourself three felony charges. And then I just was

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<v Speaker 2>like what.

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<v Speaker 5>The officer arrested Roland and he was charged with three

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<v Speaker 5>counts of forgery, one for each signature. Roland was booked

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<v Speaker 5>into the local jail for a few hours to his

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<v Speaker 5>family us at bail. Then he was free to go.

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<v Speaker 5>So we had to go back to Virginia. Six months

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<v Speaker 5>later to go to court.

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<v Speaker 2>And this sentenced me in Virginia for a year and

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<v Speaker 2>six months for east traffic ticket jail time. Jail time.

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<v Speaker 5>That was like Tina USA producer at least, said Scott

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<v Speaker 5>to say. Roland couldn't help, but wonder if racism was

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<v Speaker 5>at the root this whole experience. But of course he

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<v Speaker 5>could improve it. And in the end the jail time

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<v Speaker 5>was suspended. He just got probation. He didn't spend the

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<v Speaker 5>day locked up. Roland headed back to New Jersey, started

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<v Speaker 5>a new job and life went on as normal. A

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<v Speaker 5>few years later he met a girl.

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<v Speaker 2>We met through family, of course.

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<v Speaker 5>They loved going out to eat and going club it.

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<v Speaker 5>Pretty soon they fell in love. Then they got married.

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<v Speaker 2>We ended up having two beautiful boys. They bought a house,

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<v Speaker 2>bought a car. My life had changed. I wasn't partying

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<v Speaker 2>as much anymore. I wasn't, you know, hanging out with

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<v Speaker 2>the boys anymore, with the fellas. I was just settling down.

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<v Speaker 5>Even though he was settling down, Roland still had the

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<v Speaker 5>travel book and in the summer of twenty eleven he

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<v Speaker 5>booked a trip on a Caribbean cruise with his big

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<v Speaker 5>extended family. It was the first time he traveled outside

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<v Speaker 5>the country with all of them.

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<v Speaker 2>Being on the ship. My wife and I won like

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<v Speaker 2>the best couples award because she was pregnant. Stomics bigger word,

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<v Speaker 2>just doing all the activities and doing all types of stuff.

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<v Speaker 5>On the last day of the cruise, the ship docked

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<v Speaker 5>in Tampa. The family lined up to go through customs

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<v Speaker 5>and Roland pulled out his passport and his Green card.

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<v Speaker 5>And this was the moment when Rollin's life as he

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<v Speaker 5>knew it started to go sideways. You have to remember,

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<v Speaker 5>at this point, Roland had spent the last twenty six

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<v Speaker 5>years living in the US as a legal permanent resident.

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<v Speaker 5>He already thought of himself as an American, and he

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<v Speaker 5>had since he was a little kid, so much so

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<v Speaker 5>that applying for citizenship hadn't crossed his mind. It just

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<v Speaker 5>never felt like an urgent thing to do. So when

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<v Speaker 5>the customs officer checked his documents and then pulled him aside,

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<v Speaker 5>Roland was confused.

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<v Speaker 2>And then another officer came and walked us through the

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<v Speaker 2>bottom of the boat, and I remember asking questions like

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<v Speaker 2>what's going on? What's going on?

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<v Speaker 5>Rowland says. The officers took his fingerprints and his green

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<v Speaker 5>card and told him me to find out what was

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<v Speaker 5>going on once he got back to New York.

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<v Speaker 2>And when I came back to my family, everyone was

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<v Speaker 2>crying and going because like, what's this about. I have

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<v Speaker 2>no idea.

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<v Speaker 5>The family boarded their flight home, and they landed in

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<v Speaker 5>New York A couple of hours later. Rowland says an

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<v Speaker 5>ice officer met him at the door of the plane

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<v Speaker 5>and walks into an immigration office inside the airport.

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<v Speaker 2>And I remember the lady, the officer there. She said,

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<v Speaker 2>do you know anything about Virginia? And I said Virginia.

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<v Speaker 2>I said, what do you mean? And then she just says, well,

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<v Speaker 2>this is something that has to do with Virginia. And

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<v Speaker 2>I was like what, no way. I started laughing. I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>no way, this is impossible. Like Virginia, that case was

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<v Speaker 2>done already, Like I paid my fines, everything was already

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<v Speaker 2>finished with the.

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<v Speaker 5>Woman let Roland go. But a few months later he

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<v Speaker 5>had to appear at the immigration court in downtown Manhattan.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember the judge at the time, you know, you're

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<v Speaker 2>calling everybody's name up. I'm like, wait, what this is

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<v Speaker 2>like caught for a removal.

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<v Speaker 5>Like for deportation. Then the judge called up Roland.

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<v Speaker 4>All right, we're on the record at the Immigration court

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<v Speaker 4>in New York City, January twenty fourth, twenty twelve.

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<v Speaker 5>And the judge starts to explain what's going on. So,

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<v Speaker 5>even though Roland was done with Virginia as far as

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<v Speaker 5>the criminal justice system was concerned, now he was being

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<v Speaker 5>prosecuted for those same crimes by the Department of Homeland Security.

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<v Speaker 4>They're saying on the basis of those criminal cases that

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<v Speaker 4>you could be removed or deported from the United States.

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<v Speaker 4>So this is a serious matter. You could lose your

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<v Speaker 4>residence status and have to leave the country.

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<v Speaker 5>I was like, what it was traffic tickets, But in

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<v Speaker 5>Roland's case, traffic tickets were not just traffic tickets. That's

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<v Speaker 5>because back in nineteen ninety six, Congress passed a couple

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<v Speaker 5>of laws that made it so that a wide range

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<v Speaker 5>of criminal convictions, including things like marijuana possession and in

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<v Speaker 5>one case I read about shoplifting diapers, if you did

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<v Speaker 5>those things and you were an immigrant, it could triger

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<v Speaker 5>mandatory deport So ever since then, really small crimes have

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<v Speaker 5>led to really serious consequences for people who are not citizens.

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<v Speaker 5>Enforcement of those laws has gone more and more sophisticated

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<v Speaker 5>over the years, which probably explains why it took a

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<v Speaker 5>while for Roland to end up in deportation proceedings after

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<v Speaker 5>his conviction in Virginia. But when Roland walked off that

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<v Speaker 5>cruise ship and went through customs, it triggered the enforcement

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<v Speaker 5>system and it came crashing down on him.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, that's everything I wanted to explain to you. Do

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<v Speaker 4>you have anything else that you need to ask me

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<v Speaker 4>at this time?

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<v Speaker 5>No?

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<v Speaker 2>No, y'ah okayo.

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<v Speaker 5>The hearing ends and the judge tells Roland to get

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<v Speaker 5>a lawyer, which he does. They show up for his

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<v Speaker 5>next hearing a few months later when.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a speeding ticket where he used an alias.

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<v Speaker 5>That's Roland's lawyer.

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<v Speaker 6>He didn't forge the speeding ticket, No, no, no.

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<v Speaker 7>He forged his last I mean he forged someone else's

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<v Speaker 7>name on the ticket.

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<v Speaker 4>It looks like they got three counts out of those

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<v Speaker 4>if you've given the way they allege it corright.

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<v Speaker 5>The judge says, it looks like that conviction for signing

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<v Speaker 5>his cousin's name on those tickets, it could get him

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<v Speaker 5>a deportation order. He was after this second hearing that

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<v Speaker 5>it hit Rolin that what he was dealing with wasn't

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<v Speaker 5>some little administrative issue.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember going home and crying, I'm going to go

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<v Speaker 2>home and crying and crying. I grab Jolan and I

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<v Speaker 2>was just holding on to Jolin, which is my son.

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<v Speaker 5>Immigration cases take a while, and over the next two years,

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<v Speaker 5>Roland had to live with the possibility of being sent

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<v Speaker 5>back to a country where he doesn't know anyone. He

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<v Speaker 5>hasn't been to Haiti since he was seven, and the

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<v Speaker 5>stress of that possibility started to take over his mind.

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<v Speaker 2>That couldn't sleep. I was just overthinking everything.

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<v Speaker 5>He had chest pains that was so bad he had

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<v Speaker 5>to go to the doctor. He got really depressed.

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<v Speaker 2>It pretty much broke up my family because it put

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of stress on my wife. I was completely

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<v Speaker 2>out of it.

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<v Speaker 5>Eventually, he and his wife got divorced, and Roland found

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<v Speaker 5>himself without a place to live.

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<v Speaker 2>Walked around with a black bag with a big black

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<v Speaker 2>garbage bag, and I would stay at one family member's house, like, okay, Roland,

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<v Speaker 2>well how long you're going to be staying here? You know,

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<v Speaker 2>he can't stay here for long. I'll just pack up

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<v Speaker 2>a black bag and go to a next family member's house.

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<v Speaker 5>But while all of this was happening, Roland's case also

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<v Speaker 5>started to get some attention. There were articles of I'm

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<v Speaker 5>in the Atlantic and a few other places.

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<v Speaker 2>Then I'm getting phone calls at like six in the morning, Roland,

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<v Speaker 2>what's going on while you're on the news, and d

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<v Speaker 2>D D D D da.

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<v Speaker 3>Da da da.

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<v Speaker 5>At one point he went down to DC with an

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<v Speaker 5>advocacy group to tell his story to members of Congress.

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<v Speaker 2>Each congressman that we met with, you know, the first

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<v Speaker 2>thing he would say was anybody want to drink? And

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<v Speaker 2>I would say yeah. He made some friends, he says.

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<v Speaker 2>He even got some letters of support from members of Congress.

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<v Speaker 2>And on the day of the final hearing, I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to judge saying like, oh, you've got some good people

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<v Speaker 2>behind you. Huh. I see you've made the news. You're

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<v Speaker 2>pretty popular these days.

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<v Speaker 5>Roland was terrified as he waited for the hearing to start.

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<v Speaker 4>We're on the record the Immigration Court, New York City.

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<v Speaker 5>But then the judge is something that Roland did not

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<v Speaker 5>see coming.

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<v Speaker 4>So the parties have reached an agreement for administrative closure

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<v Speaker 4>based on prosecutorytorial discretion. Right, So, sir, your case is

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<v Speaker 4>going to be administratively closed.

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<v Speaker 5>After almost three years of going to court over and

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<v Speaker 5>over again and watching his whole life fall apart, Roland's

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<v Speaker 5>case was closed.

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<v Speaker 4>Now just briefly. That doesn't mean you win the case.

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<v Speaker 4>It doesn't mean you lose the case. It means really

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<v Speaker 4>nothing has happened.

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<v Speaker 5>What the judge did here is something called administrative closure,

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<v Speaker 5>which is basically when judges put a case on pause indefinitely.

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<v Speaker 5>At the time, judges would do this for a variety

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<v Speaker 5>of reasons, mostly to keep their case loads manageable, though

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<v Speaker 5>the Obama administration sometimes used it as a way to

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<v Speaker 5>cut people a little slack if they didn't think it

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<v Speaker 5>was a priority to deport them. It wasn't a full

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<v Speaker 5>proof solution. Roland's case could be reopened for really any

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<v Speaker 5>reason at all. But in that moment, as the case

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<v Speaker 5>was being closed, Roland just felt relief.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was happy afterwards, And I remember going home

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<v Speaker 2>that night and I cried and cried and cried and

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<v Speaker 2>cried and cried.

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<v Speaker 5>Over the next few years, Roland got a new job

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<v Speaker 5>and an apartment back in New York City. He started

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<v Speaker 5>dating a little and then one day, while he was

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<v Speaker 5>at work, he got an email from his.

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<v Speaker 2>Old lawyer saying that my case has been put back

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<v Speaker 2>on the calendar.

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<v Speaker 5>This was July of twenty eighteen, almost four years after

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<v Speaker 5>his case was closed. And what this meant was a

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<v Speaker 5>Roland I took back to the immigration court. His case

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<v Speaker 5>was being reopened.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember reading this email and shaking, and I ran

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<v Speaker 2>outside and smoked like twenty cigarettes, back to back to

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<v Speaker 2>back to back to back to back to back, NonStop.

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<v Speaker 5>And kind of like the first time. It just didn't

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<v Speaker 5>make sense to him.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't get in trouble. Why nothing happened? Is this

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<v Speaker 2>must be a mistake.

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<v Speaker 5>The email didn't explain what was going on, except for

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<v Speaker 5>this one clue a detail.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it did mention something about Castle.

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<v Speaker 5>Roland's case was being reopened because of a decision by

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<v Speaker 5>then ATTORNI General Jeff Sessions called the matter of Castro too.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up on Latino USA. We're gonna leave Roland Sylvain's

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<v Speaker 1>story for a moment to track down the mysterious man

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<v Speaker 1>whose case dragged Roland back into court. Stay with us, Yes, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>we're back, And before the break we met Roland Sylvain,

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<v Speaker 1>a Haitian American man who finds himself facing the possibility

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<v Speaker 1>of deportation a decade after he signed his cousin's name

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<v Speaker 1>on three traffic tickets. Now, let you know, USA producer

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<v Speaker 1>Alisa Skars is going to take us to Pennsylvania in

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<v Speaker 1>search of another man, a man Roland has never met,

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<v Speaker 1>but whose story has altered the course of Roland's life.

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<v Speaker 1>Alisa has been reporting this story in collaboration with Mazin

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<v Speaker 1>Sidakman and Max Siegelbaum from Documented, and Alisa has got

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<v Speaker 1>to pick up the story.

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<v Speaker 6>Now.

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<v Speaker 8>The reason Roland got called back into court was because

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<v Speaker 8>of this man who the US government lost track of

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<v Speaker 8>a few years ago when he was a teenager. His

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<v Speaker 8>name is Rainaldo Castro Tum.

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<v Speaker 6>What we know is he came here when he was seventeen.

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<v Speaker 8>We talked about his case with an immigration lawyer in Philadelphia,

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<v Speaker 8>a guy named Matthew Rchimbo. What he knows about Rainaldo

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<v Speaker 8>comes from government.

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<v Speaker 6>Documents uncompany minor from Guatemala.

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<v Speaker 8>So in June of twenty fourteen, this was during the

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<v Speaker 8>Obama administration, Rinaldo arrived at the US border. He was

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<v Speaker 8>one of almost sixty four thousand unaccompanied miners who showed

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<v Speaker 8>up at the border that year, and the vast majority

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<v Speaker 8>were from Central America.

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<v Speaker 3>It is a huge humanitarian crisis on the border right now,

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<v Speaker 3>a gigantic, unprecedented surge of miners, most without parents or guardians,

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<v Speaker 3>crossing our southern border on their own by the thousands.

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<v Speaker 8>Rinaldo was picked up by border patrol.

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<v Speaker 6>He gave the border patrol an address.

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<v Speaker 8>That address was for his brother in law, who lived

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<v Speaker 8>in a farming town in western Pennsylvania. Rinaldo was planning

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<v Speaker 8>to live with him while he waited for an immigration

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<v Speaker 8>judge to consider his case. The government sent him off

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<v Speaker 8>to Pennsylvania.

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<v Speaker 6>The only verification, only address that they really had was

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<v Speaker 6>the address that he gave to the Border patrol.

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<v Speaker 8>And that address became important a couple months later when

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<v Speaker 8>Ronaldo was supposed to show up an immigration court because

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<v Speaker 8>the notice telling him his court date was sent in

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<v Speaker 8>the mail. Rinaldo was assigned to a court in Philadelphia,

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<v Speaker 8>but when his hearing date came around in the fall

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<v Speaker 8>of twenty fourteen, he didn't show, so the judge rescheduled

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<v Speaker 8>the case, but Rainaldo didn't show again. So then this judge,

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<v Speaker 8>his name is Stephen Morley, he asked the government.

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<v Speaker 6>Can you get me verification that they verified this address,

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<v Speaker 6>and this is the address that he went to.

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<v Speaker 8>Judge Morley was worried that Rainaldo wasn't showing up because

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<v Speaker 8>he hadn't gotten the letters saying he had to come

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<v Speaker 8>to court. And after four more hearings, he still wasn't

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<v Speaker 8>convinced that the government had the right address.

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<v Speaker 6>So at some point Morley got frustrated and said, listen,

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<v Speaker 6>I'm going to close this case. I'm going to put

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<v Speaker 6>it on my shelf when you get that verification for me.

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<v Speaker 6>Let me know.

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<v Speaker 8>Morley closed the case the same way Roland's judge closed his,

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<v Speaker 8>by using administrative closure, basically to hit pause till the

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<v Speaker 8>government got the address. Things sorted out. But then the

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<v Speaker 8>government appealed the case. And this is where things get

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<v Speaker 8>kind of unusual. That's because the guy in charge of

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<v Speaker 8>the whole immigration court system at the time, Attorney General

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<v Speaker 8>Jeff Sessions, he picked up this case and said, actually,

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<v Speaker 8>I'm going to decide this one myself, and his decision

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<v Speaker 8>would affect way more than just Rainaldo's case. It would

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<v Speaker 8>change the rules for every other case as well.

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<v Speaker 6>To say that, you know, basically judges can't exercise their

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<v Speaker 6>own independent judge, so no more administrative closure.

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<v Speaker 8>No more administrative closure for anybody, no more putting cases

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<v Speaker 8>on the shelf. Rinaldo's case got sent back to that

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<v Speaker 8>judge in Philadelphia, Stephen Morley, and he was told to

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<v Speaker 8>reschedule the hearing for just a couple weeks later. If

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<v Speaker 8>Rinaldo didn't show again, the judge was supposed to order

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00:21:20.080 --> 00:21:22.560
<v Speaker 8>him deported even if he didn't know about the hearing

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00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:26.120
<v Speaker 8>because of that wrong address. And to Matthew Archimbaud, all

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<v Speaker 8>of this seemed unfair.

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<v Speaker 6>It's like, well, why would you have to pick this

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<v Speaker 6>case a kid that's unrepresented? Why not pick many of

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<v Speaker 6>the thousands of cases where there are attorneys that can

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<v Speaker 6>actually advocate for their client. So that's what kind of

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<v Speaker 6>drove me to like, can we find cast for Tom?

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<v Speaker 6>And then if not, what are we going to do?

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<v Speaker 8>You were thinking like, let's find this kid and I'll

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<v Speaker 8>be his lawyer.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and then we can go to court and go hey,

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<v Speaker 6>here we are kind of like, screw it all up.

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<v Speaker 8>Archinbaut sent out a message to some other lawyers saying

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<v Speaker 8>let's go find Rainaldo kestro Tomb and he got connected

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<v Speaker 8>to a paralegal from a nonprofit who happened to live

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<v Speaker 8>near Raynaldo's now notorious address, and one afternoon she set

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<v Speaker 8>out with a colleague to find him.

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<v Speaker 9>So you know, when you drive down the road, you

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<v Speaker 9>see some trailer parks. You see a lot of trailer parks.

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<v Speaker 8>This is that paralegal or former paralegal. She's in law

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<v Speaker 8>school now. Her name is Mana Aliabadi.

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<v Speaker 9>You see a lot of churches. I've seen a lot

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<v Speaker 9>of like pro life billboards, or like make America great again,

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<v Speaker 9>that kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 8>Mana drove for about an hour and she found the

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<v Speaker 8>address inside one of those trailer parks.

429
00:22:38.320 --> 00:22:39.639
<v Speaker 9>So, yeah, we knocked on the door.

430
00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:42.680
<v Speaker 8>Nobody answered, so she left a note, and a little

431
00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:43.679
<v Speaker 8>while later she got.

432
00:22:43.560 --> 00:22:45.760
<v Speaker 9>A call and it was this guy that said, oh

433
00:22:45.800 --> 00:22:47.560
<v Speaker 9>I just got home. I got your note that you

434
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:51.160
<v Speaker 9>left about Ronaldo. So we're like, oh, okay, we got

435
00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:51.680
<v Speaker 9>to go back.

436
00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:54.320
<v Speaker 8>She drove back to the address, and she says she

437
00:22:54.440 --> 00:22:57.280
<v Speaker 8>was greeted by an older Mexican man who.

438
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:59.520
<v Speaker 9>Said, I just bought this trailer from the previous owner.

439
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:03.080
<v Speaker 9>I don't know this specific person, but I do know

440
00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:04.959
<v Speaker 9>that there were a group of five or six workers

441
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:08.280
<v Speaker 9>that were living here, and they were from Central America.

442
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:11.680
<v Speaker 8>The man didn't know where the previous owners had gone,

443
00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:13.879
<v Speaker 8>but he gave Mana another clue.

444
00:23:14.680 --> 00:23:18.399
<v Speaker 9>He said they all at some point worked at a

445
00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:21.520
<v Speaker 9>specific store in Washington County, so he said, maybe if

446
00:23:21.560 --> 00:23:23.600
<v Speaker 9>you go there, they'll have more information.

447
00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:27.399
<v Speaker 8>Mana drove to the store with her colleague. It was

448
00:23:27.560 --> 00:23:30.520
<v Speaker 8>a Latino grocery store, and she'd actually met one of

449
00:23:30.520 --> 00:23:34.199
<v Speaker 8>the clerks before, so she walked in, found the clerk

450
00:23:34.560 --> 00:23:37.760
<v Speaker 8>and said, hey, we were wondering have you heard of

451
00:23:37.800 --> 00:23:40.240
<v Speaker 8>this guy Rainaldo Castro tomb.

452
00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:43.600
<v Speaker 9>And she kind of looked at me and didn't say anything.

453
00:23:44.520 --> 00:23:47.240
<v Speaker 9>And I said, okay, so I think she'd know something,

454
00:23:47.320 --> 00:23:48.600
<v Speaker 9>but maybe she doesn't want to say.

455
00:23:49.040 --> 00:23:51.080
<v Speaker 8>The clerk disappeared to the back of the store for

456
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:54.320
<v Speaker 8>a second, and when she came back, she said, nope,

457
00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:55.240
<v Speaker 8>I don't know that person.

458
00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:58.439
<v Speaker 9>I was like, okay, something is going on here.

459
00:23:58.840 --> 00:24:01.639
<v Speaker 8>The clerk seemed to notice that Mina was disappointed and

460
00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:04.399
<v Speaker 8>that she wasn't totally convinced, and she said.

461
00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:07.000
<v Speaker 9>But there's that guy that works here. He's in the

462
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:10.480
<v Speaker 9>back right now. He might know him. And I said, okay.

463
00:24:11.080 --> 00:24:13.240
<v Speaker 8>Mana walked to the back of the store and.

464
00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:15.600
<v Speaker 9>This guy is like stocking shelves and we're like, hi,

465
00:24:16.800 --> 00:24:17.959
<v Speaker 9>he looks like really worried.

466
00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:20.960
<v Speaker 8>Mana tells him they're looking for Rainaldo, and the guy

467
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:24.440
<v Speaker 8>still looks worried. So she tries to reassure him.

468
00:24:24.520 --> 00:24:27.240
<v Speaker 9>Like, we're not from the government, we just really want

469
00:24:27.280 --> 00:24:29.520
<v Speaker 9>to make sure that he shows up to court because

470
00:24:29.520 --> 00:24:30.600
<v Speaker 9>it's really important.

471
00:24:31.040 --> 00:24:34.120
<v Speaker 8>Finally the man says, no, I don't really know him.

472
00:24:34.320 --> 00:24:36.200
<v Speaker 9>And then he's like, Okay, hold on a second, I'll

473
00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:39.479
<v Speaker 9>be back. And then he went, and we were waiting,

474
00:24:39.560 --> 00:24:40.680
<v Speaker 9>and we're waiting, we're.

475
00:24:40.520 --> 00:24:44.960
<v Speaker 8>Waiting, they bought something, waited some more. Finally they gave

476
00:24:45.040 --> 00:24:46.399
<v Speaker 8>up and headed back to the car.

477
00:24:46.840 --> 00:24:50.280
<v Speaker 9>And so as we're leaving this store, he's at the side,

478
00:24:50.359 --> 00:24:52.480
<v Speaker 9>like smoking a cigarette, and he just looks at us

479
00:24:52.560 --> 00:25:01.120
<v Speaker 9>and like looks away. So, yeah, that was kind of it.

480
00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:03.119
<v Speaker 5>Do you think he was in the back of that store.

481
00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:06.080
<v Speaker 8>That's Max Siegelbaum who reported this story with me.

482
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:10.359
<v Speaker 9>I don't know. I don't know. I don't think he

483
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:13.240
<v Speaker 9>himself was, but I do think the person we talked

484
00:25:13.280 --> 00:25:16.840
<v Speaker 9>to either knew him or was related to him. Will

485
00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:17.520
<v Speaker 9>never be sure.

486
00:25:20.520 --> 00:25:22.679
<v Speaker 8>Mana has spent a lot of time in the communities

487
00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:25.600
<v Speaker 8>around Rainaldo's address, and she says that for a lot

488
00:25:25.600 --> 00:25:28.600
<v Speaker 8>of people, staying anonymous is a conscious choice.

489
00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:30.439
<v Speaker 9>At certain point, you know, you kind of got to

490
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:33.879
<v Speaker 9>respect people living in these communities and their witches to

491
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:37.160
<v Speaker 9>like not talk about these things, because usually even if

492
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:40.720
<v Speaker 9>you do participate or engage with the legal system, it's

493
00:25:40.800 --> 00:25:42.920
<v Speaker 9>likely that you won't get the outcome you want.

494
00:25:47.280 --> 00:25:51.320
<v Speaker 8>Back in Philadelphia, Matthew Archimbau knew Rainaldo's immigration court hearing

495
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:54.400
<v Speaker 8>was coming up pretty quick. And one day, a couple

496
00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:58.440
<v Speaker 8>of weeks after the Attorney General's decision to reopen Rainaldo's case.

497
00:25:58.600 --> 00:26:02.680
<v Speaker 6>I thought hundred number to see, like did they schedule

498
00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:05.600
<v Speaker 6>a hearing? And I dial it, and all of a

499
00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:08.439
<v Speaker 6>sudden I realized that they scheduled a hearing and it

500
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:12.280
<v Speaker 6>was for the next day, and I thought, okay, what

501
00:26:12.320 --> 00:26:15.240
<v Speaker 6>can I do? And I'm like, well, I don't have him.

502
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:17.800
<v Speaker 8>He didn't find right now, though, So scratch Plan A.

503
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:22.440
<v Speaker 6>I'm like, well, what if I go as a friend

504
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:22.960
<v Speaker 6>of the court.

505
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:26.159
<v Speaker 8>A friend of the court that's when a lawyer can

506
00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:28.600
<v Speaker 8>make arguments in a case where they don't have a client.

507
00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:33.479
<v Speaker 8>Perfect Plan B. So the next day Archimbau walked down

508
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:35.960
<v Speaker 8>to the court. It's just a few blocks from his office,

509
00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:38.800
<v Speaker 8>and as he walked into the courtroom, he noticed it

510
00:26:38.840 --> 00:26:40.400
<v Speaker 8>was a little busier than usual.

511
00:26:40.840 --> 00:26:43.159
<v Speaker 6>The court is kind of filling up with immigration attorneys

512
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:46.359
<v Speaker 6>who had no business being there other than to watch me.

513
00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:50.160
<v Speaker 8>It seemed like word had gotten around about Archimba's plan.

514
00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:55.320
<v Speaker 6>So Judge Morley walked in, remember.

515
00:26:55.080 --> 00:26:58.800
<v Speaker 8>He was the judge who had closed Rainaldo's case. Archimbo says,

516
00:26:58.800 --> 00:27:00.240
<v Speaker 8>they've known each other for a long time time.

517
00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:04.720
<v Speaker 6>This is a big case for him, and he knows

518
00:27:04.760 --> 00:27:08.800
<v Speaker 6>the import of the decision from the Attorney General and

519
00:27:08.840 --> 00:27:10.560
<v Speaker 6>he's like, oh, mister Arschwall. He's like, do you have

520
00:27:10.600 --> 00:27:16.399
<v Speaker 6>a client? And I said not really so, and he's like, okay, okay, okay.

521
00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:20.520
<v Speaker 8>Let me sit down, and the hearing began.

522
00:27:21.040 --> 00:27:24.200
<v Speaker 4>Immigration just Stephen Morley presiding the removal proceedings of Renaldo

523
00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:25.800
<v Speaker 4>Raynaldo Castro.

524
00:27:25.520 --> 00:27:29.200
<v Speaker 8>Tom The judge starts the hearing by addressing Archimba, have.

525
00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:32.560
<v Speaker 6>You been in communication with your client? You have your

526
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:35.280
<v Speaker 6>friend to the court coil we have attempted.

527
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:38.719
<v Speaker 8>Archimbau explains Mana's trip out to the trailer park, and

528
00:27:38.760 --> 00:27:41.000
<v Speaker 8>he says he's worried that Rainaldo still doesn't know he's

529
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:42.120
<v Speaker 8>supposed to be here.

530
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:45.040
<v Speaker 6>And we want to make sure that he gets the

531
00:27:45.080 --> 00:27:49.280
<v Speaker 6>fair notice that he is due under the law and

532
00:27:49.320 --> 00:27:53.640
<v Speaker 6>in comports with a due process. And I could go on.

533
00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:59.879
<v Speaker 8>So but Archinba is known for joking around in the courtroom.

534
00:28:00.040 --> 00:28:00.639
<v Speaker 5>Sure you could.

535
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:05.200
<v Speaker 8>It seems like Archimbau and Judge Morley agreed that Rainaldo

536
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:08.080
<v Speaker 8>getting a deportation order when he probably doesn't even know

537
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:11.119
<v Speaker 8>he needs to be here. That doesn't feel right. But

538
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:14.520
<v Speaker 8>the government lawyer, he's the guy who's prosecuting Raynaldo here,

539
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:16.320
<v Speaker 8>he disagrees.

540
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:18.400
<v Speaker 5>I would move to proceed an absension. I don't believe.

541
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:20.960
<v Speaker 8>He says that if Ronaldo doesn't show that day, the

542
00:28:21.040 --> 00:28:24.120
<v Speaker 8>judge should go ahead and order him deported no more delays.

543
00:28:24.840 --> 00:28:27.320
<v Speaker 8>But Judge Morley thinks giving him one more shot is

544
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:28.040
<v Speaker 8>only fair.

545
00:28:28.359 --> 00:28:32.800
<v Speaker 2>The problem is the address in the problem all along.

546
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:35.639
<v Speaker 8>So he postpones the case one more time for just

547
00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:39.200
<v Speaker 8>a couple months, and he closes by addressing Archimbau with

548
00:28:39.320 --> 00:28:41.600
<v Speaker 8>a little joke of his own, and he.

549
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:44.280
<v Speaker 5>Of the consequences of Australia to appear.

550
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:51.760
<v Speaker 8>This decision wouldn't be without consequences. After the hearing, Archimbau

551
00:28:51.800 --> 00:28:53.880
<v Speaker 8>walked up to Judge Morley to get some paperwork.

552
00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:57.080
<v Speaker 6>Didn't He just looked at me and he said, like,

553
00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:02.120
<v Speaker 6>I think I'm gonna catch some shit for this, and

554
00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:06.080
<v Speaker 6>he did. He did, And I think this is where

555
00:29:06.120 --> 00:29:16.160
<v Speaker 6>the story becomes more consequential for immigration courts.

556
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:19.840
<v Speaker 8>A few days later, Matthew Archinbau went online to file

557
00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:23.480
<v Speaker 8>some paperwork for Rainaldo's next hearing, and.

558
00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:26.520
<v Speaker 6>What I noticed is a few days later Judge Morley

559
00:29:26.600 --> 00:29:29.600
<v Speaker 6>was off the case and it listed Judge ned.

560
00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:32.200
<v Speaker 8>Carney, Judge d Poly ned Carney.

561
00:29:32.600 --> 00:29:36.680
<v Speaker 6>Judge ned Carney. I came to find out at headquarters.

562
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:40.320
<v Speaker 6>She's a judge who works out of headquarters in Virginia.

563
00:29:40.800 --> 00:29:43.160
<v Speaker 8>She was going to travel all the way to Philadelphia

564
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:45.560
<v Speaker 8>to hear Rainaldo's case one case.

565
00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:48.920
<v Speaker 6>She took the train up, drove up. I don't know

566
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.600
<v Speaker 6>how she got here for one case.

567
00:29:53.520 --> 00:29:55.960
<v Speaker 8>So July of twenty eighteen year old, around the date

568
00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:59.360
<v Speaker 8>of Ronaldo's next hearing, and Archimbo says the court was

569
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:03.160
<v Speaker 8>also crowded. This time Judge ned Carney walked in.

570
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:05.880
<v Speaker 10>This is a removal proceeding being conducted.

571
00:30:06.320 --> 00:30:09.960
<v Speaker 2>A matter of Rinaldo Castro tune.

572
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:12.280
<v Speaker 8>From the get go, the tone of this hearing is

573
00:30:12.320 --> 00:30:15.360
<v Speaker 8>a little different from the last one. No jokes this time.

574
00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:25.200
<v Speaker 10>Turning to today's hearing, it is now one eight and

575
00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:27.120
<v Speaker 10>the respondents still not in the courtroom.

576
00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:30.080
<v Speaker 8>They had called Rinaldo's name in the waiting room, but

577
00:30:30.120 --> 00:30:30.920
<v Speaker 8>he's still not here.

578
00:30:31.400 --> 00:30:36.800
<v Speaker 10>The government requested that the court proceed in absentia if

579
00:30:36.800 --> 00:30:40.560
<v Speaker 10>the respondent failed to appear today. Mister Scott, is that

580
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:41.720
<v Speaker 10>the government's.

581
00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:43.880
<v Speaker 8>Position, Mister Scott is the government attorney.

582
00:30:44.120 --> 00:30:44.280
<v Speaker 9>Yes.

583
00:30:45.080 --> 00:30:48.520
<v Speaker 8>Then Judge ned Carney turns to her computer and starts

584
00:30:48.520 --> 00:30:49.440
<v Speaker 8>reading her decision.

585
00:30:49.800 --> 00:30:53.320
<v Speaker 10>I found, by clear, unequivocal and convincing evidence that the

586
00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:57.560
<v Speaker 10>respondent is removable from the United States, and I will

587
00:30:57.680 --> 00:30:59.600
<v Speaker 10>order his removal from the United States.

588
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:04.160
<v Speaker 8>Tom that's it. Rinaldo Custrotomb is ordered deported.

589
00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:06.080
<v Speaker 10>Is there anything for them?

590
00:31:06.120 --> 00:31:07.959
<v Speaker 1>Mister Scott not indags.

591
00:31:08.360 --> 00:31:11.640
<v Speaker 8>For most of this hearing, Archimbau has been sitting there silently,

592
00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:13.520
<v Speaker 8>but he jumps in at the end.

593
00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:17.160
<v Speaker 6>We do want to raise concerns with the manner that

594
00:31:17.280 --> 00:31:19.880
<v Speaker 6>this case was handled, in the fact that Judge Morley

595
00:31:20.080 --> 00:31:21.960
<v Speaker 6>was taken off this matter.

596
00:31:22.520 --> 00:31:24.920
<v Speaker 8>He's like, it really seems like the government was trying

597
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:27.840
<v Speaker 8>to send a message to immigration judges here, but they

598
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:29.920
<v Speaker 8>better be in lockst up with what the Attorney General

599
00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:31.920
<v Speaker 8>had in mind, or else they could get pulled off

600
00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:32.600
<v Speaker 8>their cases.

601
00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:37.280
<v Speaker 6>And as I parted, the fact that Attorney General Sessions

602
00:31:37.320 --> 00:31:42.680
<v Speaker 6>would choose this case unaccompanied minor, he's unrepresented, as a

603
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:47.720
<v Speaker 6>seminole case on these issues is quite frankly disturbing, and

604
00:31:49.600 --> 00:31:55.080
<v Speaker 6>I dare say discussed I thank you for coming to Philadelphia,

605
00:31:55.720 --> 00:32:02.280
<v Speaker 6>thank you, and it was don't know, I didn't expect

606
00:32:02.280 --> 00:32:03.160
<v Speaker 6>anything different.

607
00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:06.040
<v Speaker 8>He figured that at this point any judge would have

608
00:32:06.080 --> 00:32:14.200
<v Speaker 8>ordered Rainaldo deported, even Judge Morley. Since the Attorney General's

609
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:16.920
<v Speaker 8>decision on kestro Tom, there have been a whole series

610
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:19.800
<v Speaker 8>of other decisions that have pushed immigration judges to do

611
00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:23.600
<v Speaker 8>exactly what the Trump administration dictates. It's made it harder

612
00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:26.560
<v Speaker 8>and harder for them to make independent decisions. They have

613
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:30.200
<v Speaker 8>to toe the line. And this might partly answer this

614
00:32:30.320 --> 00:32:33.880
<v Speaker 8>question that I kept thinking about, which was why Rainaldo

615
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:37.280
<v Speaker 8>castro toom? Why this kid who had done nothing wrong,

616
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:39.959
<v Speaker 8>who had broken the laws, and who nobody had had

617
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:43.880
<v Speaker 8>any contact with. And we can't really know, but Archimbo

618
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:46.120
<v Speaker 8>seems to think that Sessions kind of picked it out

619
00:32:46.120 --> 00:32:46.880
<v Speaker 8>at random.

620
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:50.440
<v Speaker 6>I mean, he wanted to talk about administrative closure, and

621
00:32:50.520 --> 00:32:52.680
<v Speaker 6>it's probably just one that day picked out.

622
00:32:53.600 --> 00:32:56.960
<v Speaker 8>But at this point for Archimbau, Raynaldo Castro toom the

623
00:32:57.080 --> 00:33:00.840
<v Speaker 8>man has become a low key obsession. Even now, a

624
00:33:00.840 --> 00:33:02.440
<v Speaker 8>couple of years after the end of the case.

625
00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:05.640
<v Speaker 6>It's funny every time I have a client from Guatemala.

626
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:07.840
<v Speaker 6>The last thing I asked you that, by the way,

627
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:10.200
<v Speaker 6>do you know Rinaldo cast Thoten.

628
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.479
<v Speaker 8>We wanted to hear the judges perspective on this, and

629
00:33:17.520 --> 00:33:19.840
<v Speaker 8>we reached out to the immigration court system to try

630
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:22.160
<v Speaker 8>to talk to Judge Morley and Judge Nett Krney about

631
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:25.040
<v Speaker 8>the case, but we were told that immigration judges don't

632
00:33:25.040 --> 00:33:30.080
<v Speaker 8>give interviews. So I sat down with Ashley Tabador.

633
00:33:30.360 --> 00:33:32.080
<v Speaker 7>It needs to be clear that I'm speaking to you

634
00:33:32.120 --> 00:33:35.160
<v Speaker 7>in my capacity as the president of the National Association

635
00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:36.640
<v Speaker 7>of Immigration Judges.

636
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:39.400
<v Speaker 8>She is a judge too, but she's allowed to speak

637
00:33:39.400 --> 00:33:42.320
<v Speaker 8>to us as a union representative, and she's not a

638
00:33:42.360 --> 00:33:45.680
<v Speaker 8>fan of the Castratomb decision for a bunch of reasons,

639
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:49.280
<v Speaker 8>one of which is that now prosecutors and judges can't

640
00:33:49.280 --> 00:33:52.080
<v Speaker 8>look at a case and say, you know, it's not

641
00:33:52.120 --> 00:33:54.760
<v Speaker 8>a priority to deport this person, why don't we close

642
00:33:54.800 --> 00:33:55.600
<v Speaker 8>their case for now?

643
00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:59.160
<v Speaker 7>So it took out the humanitarian part. It took out

644
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:03.920
<v Speaker 7>the ability for the prosecutor to exercise any compassion or

645
00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:07.800
<v Speaker 7>really considered the humanitarian element of the case.

646
00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:11.480
<v Speaker 8>We've heard from lawyers who represent immigrants that a number

647
00:34:11.520 --> 00:34:14.960
<v Speaker 8>of their clients who had had cases administratively closed, sometimes

648
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:16.920
<v Speaker 8>for years, have had them reopened.

649
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:23.360
<v Speaker 7>Well, the cases that have been administratively close after Castro

650
00:34:23.560 --> 00:34:25.760
<v Speaker 7>Tomb are technically.

651
00:34:26.680 --> 00:34:29.400
<v Speaker 5>Now should be reopened.

652
00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:32.280
<v Speaker 8>Which meant that more than three hundred and fifty thousand

653
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:37.040
<v Speaker 8>people could now get sucked back into deportation proceedings. In practice,

654
00:34:37.160 --> 00:34:39.759
<v Speaker 8>not all of their cases have been reopened. We don't

655
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:42.360
<v Speaker 8>know exactly how many have, but it's probably in the

656
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:45.560
<v Speaker 8>tens of thousands. And an ICE official recently said at

657
00:34:45.600 --> 00:34:48.000
<v Speaker 8>a conference that the government is looking to use the

658
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:50.600
<v Speaker 8>free time they've had during the pandemic to double down

659
00:34:50.680 --> 00:34:55.160
<v Speaker 8>on reopening cases. Which gets us back to Roland, Sylvaine.

660
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:57.440
<v Speaker 2>What we're doing the test one right now?

661
00:34:57.640 --> 00:35:01.200
<v Speaker 8>I guess we say Roland. I The first time Mazen

662
00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:04.080
<v Speaker 8>and I talked to Roland was back in January, before

663
00:35:04.120 --> 00:35:06.319
<v Speaker 8>the pandemic, so I caught up with him again a

664
00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:10.520
<v Speaker 8>few weeks ago. Immigration cases are slow and not much

665
00:35:10.560 --> 00:35:12.960
<v Speaker 8>has happened in his case since it got reopened two

666
00:35:13.040 --> 00:35:16.200
<v Speaker 8>years ago, but his final hearing is coming up in

667
00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:19.760
<v Speaker 8>March of twenty twenty one, and the stakes are really high.

668
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:23.960
<v Speaker 8>Without administrative closure, our legal system doesn't have a lot

669
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:26.719
<v Speaker 8>of options for Roland to get to stay in the US.

670
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:30.360
<v Speaker 8>But whenever the looming threat of deportation pops into Roland's

671
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:34.200
<v Speaker 8>mind these days, he tries to shut down the thought fast.

672
00:35:34.120 --> 00:35:36.239
<v Speaker 2>Because, you know, the first time around, when I dealt

673
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:38.799
<v Speaker 2>with this case, I didn't play the mental trick as

674
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:41.400
<v Speaker 2>much was it literally ate me up.

675
00:35:41.719 --> 00:35:43.440
<v Speaker 8>And he doesn't want to let it eat him up

676
00:35:43.520 --> 00:35:46.880
<v Speaker 8>again because in the time since his case was reopened,

677
00:35:47.040 --> 00:35:49.000
<v Speaker 8>he's built a new happy life.

678
00:35:49.200 --> 00:35:51.680
<v Speaker 2>You know, I've met a woman of my dreams.

679
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:53.960
<v Speaker 8>And Roland is in love.

680
00:35:55.200 --> 00:35:56.840
<v Speaker 11>We both had a mutual best friend.

681
00:35:57.239 --> 00:35:59.560
<v Speaker 8>This is Lily. Lily and Henry.

682
00:36:00.120 --> 00:36:04.040
<v Speaker 11>For like I would say, two years he was hunting

683
00:36:04.080 --> 00:36:07.120
<v Speaker 11>me down on social media, liking my pictures.

684
00:36:07.600 --> 00:36:10.440
<v Speaker 8>Lily ignored those likes for a while, but then she

685
00:36:10.560 --> 00:36:14.840
<v Speaker 8>noticed a funny coincidence. Roland's birthday is the day before

686
00:36:15.040 --> 00:36:18.120
<v Speaker 8>her mother's, but she took as a sign.

687
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:20.239
<v Speaker 11>So I was like, oh, maybe he is the man.

688
00:36:21.080 --> 00:36:24.760
<v Speaker 11>So I sent them a happy birthday on two different

689
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:27.439
<v Speaker 11>social media free it was two, it was about four,

690
00:36:27.560 --> 00:36:28.000
<v Speaker 11>it was two.

691
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:30.600
<v Speaker 8>I wasn't able to fact check the specifics of this

692
00:36:31.040 --> 00:36:31.520
<v Speaker 8>after she.

693
00:36:31.560 --> 00:36:34.279
<v Speaker 2>Wished me happy birthday on like I don't know, four

694
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:38.440
<v Speaker 2>or five different now, on like four or five different

695
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:41.600
<v Speaker 2>social media outlets, and I said, Okay, she wants me

696
00:36:41.680 --> 00:36:42.200
<v Speaker 2>for sure.

697
00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:45.960
<v Speaker 8>When they finally connected, they talked on the phone for

698
00:36:46.080 --> 00:36:50.160
<v Speaker 8>two days straight, which let them cover a lot of ground, like.

699
00:36:50.160 --> 00:36:52.919
<v Speaker 1>I love martial arts. He loves that too.

700
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:54.920
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's all about her daughter and I'm all

701
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:57.400
<v Speaker 2>about my kids. We really just got along.

702
00:36:58.000 --> 00:36:59.799
<v Speaker 1>I felt like he was the mirror image of.

703
00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:05.879
<v Speaker 8>My During those conversations, Roland told Lily about his immigration case.

704
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:08.000
<v Speaker 11>And it was one of those things like, gosh, do

705
00:37:08.080 --> 00:37:10.960
<v Speaker 11>I stay or do I jump ship? Because that sounds

706
00:37:11.160 --> 00:37:13.600
<v Speaker 11>a little complicated and very unfair.

707
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:16.640
<v Speaker 8>But she didn't jump ship. They actually got married a

708
00:37:16.640 --> 00:37:19.319
<v Speaker 8>couple months ago, and his case is part of her

709
00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:19.879
<v Speaker 8>life now.

710
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:23.040
<v Speaker 11>It's like a kryptonite in this house. We don't talk

711
00:37:23.080 --> 00:37:25.680
<v Speaker 11>about what if it doesn't work out. We just don't

712
00:37:25.680 --> 00:37:29.080
<v Speaker 11>address it. But his mother and I have talked about

713
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:31.840
<v Speaker 11>what if it doesn't work out, what plans we have

714
00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:36.560
<v Speaker 11>set up. We've discussed that because, to be afair with you,

715
00:37:36.600 --> 00:37:37.960
<v Speaker 11>neither one of us know the country.

716
00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:41.680
<v Speaker 8>Lily was also born in Haiti and she also immigrated

717
00:37:41.719 --> 00:37:42.600
<v Speaker 8>as a young child.

718
00:37:43.080 --> 00:37:44.880
<v Speaker 2>I can't even speak the language fluidly.

719
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:49.080
<v Speaker 8>Roland can't speak the language fluidly either, and he worries

720
00:37:49.120 --> 00:37:51.239
<v Speaker 8>about how people will see him if he does get

721
00:37:51.280 --> 00:37:51.840
<v Speaker 8>sent back.

722
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:55.120
<v Speaker 2>If you're someone that you know, like they say, you've

723
00:37:55.160 --> 00:37:56.759
<v Speaker 2>made it to the Promised Land, you made it to

724
00:37:56.800 --> 00:38:00.360
<v Speaker 2>America and ended up being deported back to your country,

725
00:38:01.520 --> 00:38:04.880
<v Speaker 2>people usually look at you as being like the bottomless, worthless,

726
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:06.839
<v Speaker 2>like you know, like how did you mess that up?

727
00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:07.440
<v Speaker 2>What did you do?

728
00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:09.719
<v Speaker 8>He's scared that people are going to look at him

729
00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:12.200
<v Speaker 8>and assume that he committed a serious crime.

730
00:38:13.040 --> 00:38:16.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, you're a murderer or you or your you know,

731
00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:21.160
<v Speaker 2>robber or drug dealer, or they would never understand it's

732
00:38:21.160 --> 00:38:24.680
<v Speaker 2>related to traffic, right it's I mean even now, even

733
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:27.239
<v Speaker 2>even here in America, trying to explain it to like

734
00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:29.160
<v Speaker 2>family members, or trying to explain it to like, you know,

735
00:38:29.200 --> 00:38:31.719
<v Speaker 2>within a few friends and stuff like that automatically. It's

736
00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:33.480
<v Speaker 2>like rolling a ligne. What did you do?

737
00:38:42.520 --> 00:38:45.080
<v Speaker 8>For now? All Roland can do is try to explain

738
00:38:45.120 --> 00:38:48.200
<v Speaker 8>it and wait. There's only a few more months till

739
00:38:48.200 --> 00:38:52.800
<v Speaker 8>that final hearing. Roland could find himself back in Haiti

740
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:55.839
<v Speaker 8>soon as a punishment for writing his cousin's name on

741
00:38:55.960 --> 00:39:00.400
<v Speaker 8>three traffic tickets two decades ago. But he's trying not

742
00:39:00.520 --> 00:39:01.160
<v Speaker 8>to think about that.

743
00:39:20.640 --> 00:39:24.480
<v Speaker 1>This episode was produced by Alissa Scarce Marza and Sudahmed

744
00:39:24.680 --> 00:39:28.920
<v Speaker 1>and Max Siegelbaum. It was edited by Luis Trees. It

745
00:39:29.040 --> 00:39:32.840
<v Speaker 1>was mixed by Stephanie Lebau, fact checking by Hannah Beckler

746
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:36.080
<v Speaker 1>and Mary Retta. This piece was reported in partnership with

747
00:39:36.120 --> 00:39:40.799
<v Speaker 1>the Wayne Barrett Project at Type Investigations. Special thanks to

748
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:45.759
<v Speaker 1>Type Investigations editor Sarah Bluestain, as well as Jessica Rofe,

749
00:39:46.080 --> 00:39:52.640
<v Speaker 1>Jonathan Greenspan, Denish McCoy, Alissa Wellick, Kendall Nisted, Nimi Sankoff,

750
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:58.160
<v Speaker 1>Matthew Lamberti, Evangeline Chan and Max Mitchell from the Legal

751
00:39:58.200 --> 00:40:04.040
<v Speaker 1>Intelligencer in Philadelphia. The Latino USA team includes Victoria Strada,

752
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:09.799
<v Speaker 1>Renaldo Leanos Junior, Andrea Lopez Grusado, Flodi mart Marquez, Marta Martinez,

753
00:40:10.080 --> 00:40:14.640
<v Speaker 1>Mike Sargent, Noor Saudi and Nancy Trujillo. Penilee Ramirez is

754
00:40:14.640 --> 00:40:18.920
<v Speaker 1>our co executive producer. Our senior engineer is Julia Caruso.

755
00:40:19.200 --> 00:40:22.759
<v Speaker 1>Our marketing manager is Luis Luna. Our theme music was

756
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:26.040
<v Speaker 1>composed by Zenia Ruinos. I'm your host and executive producer

757
00:40:26.080 --> 00:40:29.080
<v Speaker 1>Maria jo Josa. Join us again on our next episode.

758
00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:32.040
<v Speaker 1>In the meantime, look for us on your social media.

759
00:40:32.200 --> 00:40:35.479
<v Speaker 1>I'll see you there and remember dotevayes Ciao.

760
00:40:36.840 --> 00:40:41.240
<v Speaker 12>Latino USA is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation,

761
00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:45.879
<v Speaker 12>working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide,

762
00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:50.719
<v Speaker 12>the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, and the

763
00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:57.239
<v Speaker 12>Heising Simons Foundation, unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities. More at

764
00:40:57.440 --> 00:40:59.200
<v Speaker 12>hsfoundation dot org.

765
00:41:00.160 --> 00:41:00.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh Hello,