WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:03.720 This is Latino USA, the radio journal of News and 2 00:00:03.840 --> 00:00:09.000 Culture Latino US Latin Latino USA. I'm Maria Inojosa. We 3 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:12.719 bring you stories that are underreported but that mattered to you, 4 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:14.720 overlooked by the rest of the media, and while the 5 00:00:14.760 --> 00:00:17.040 country is struggling to deal with these we listen to 6 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:20.680 the stories of Black and Latino Studios United Latino Front, 7 00:00:20.880 --> 00:00:25.200 a cultural renaissance organizing at the forefront of the movement. 8 00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:32.400 I'm Maria ino Jossa nose Bayan. Hey Latino USA listener, 9 00:00:32.720 --> 00:00:42.160 here's a show the Los Archives. I'm really cold. I'm 10 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:46.599 walking on the impressive grounds of Howard University in Washington, 11 00:00:46.680 --> 00:00:51.680 d C. This is a historic place, but today it's 12 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:57.760 raining and freezing, and now I've just entered a waiting 13 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.720 room at the university. I'm with that, you know, USA 14 00:01:00.800 --> 00:01:02.320 producer Renaldo. 15 00:01:03.120 --> 00:01:04.840 You know, just in this moment of history, Like, what 16 00:01:04.880 --> 00:01:08.840 does it mean to you to be talking about democracy today? 17 00:01:09.240 --> 00:01:11.639 The thing is is that we have to be talking 18 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:16.120 about democracy because the world's greatest democracy, so called, is 19 00:01:16.160 --> 00:01:19.959 that threat. I'm getting ready to take the stage for 20 00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:23.080 a panel where we're going to be talking about journalism, 21 00:01:23.360 --> 00:01:27.600 blind spots in the mainstream media. This is all part 22 00:01:27.720 --> 00:01:34.000 of the inaugural Democracy Summit, hosted by Howard University's Journalism program. 23 00:01:34.360 --> 00:01:39.440 This conference, in this moment in history, well it's a 24 00:01:39.560 --> 00:01:43.600 very big deal. The panel I'm on is just one 25 00:01:43.640 --> 00:01:46.759 of several that take place that day. It was all 26 00:01:46.880 --> 00:01:50.240 organized by the New York Times journalist Nicole Hannah Jones. 27 00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:54.920 She founded and now runs the Journalism and Democracy Center 28 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:56.360 here at Howard University. 29 00:01:56.560 --> 00:01:58.320 Okay, so I just want to walk you through a 30 00:01:58.360 --> 00:01:59.880 few things before you go on. 31 00:02:00.320 --> 00:02:02.680 Jesus, it took me a minute, but I finally was 32 00:02:02.720 --> 00:02:06.880 able to get warm and dry backstage, and now I've 33 00:02:06.880 --> 00:02:09.640 got to go on stage and see the audience, which 34 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:12.120 I can hear from the other side of the curtain. 35 00:02:12.800 --> 00:02:15.680 Ass But before I go on, I happened to spot Nicole, 36 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:18.680 who's been running around the entire day. I mean, this 37 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:22.639 is her conference, after all, her center, of course, and 38 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:25.560 I see that she's taking a moment to check her phone. 39 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:29.480 She is wearing a beautiful green dress, she has her 40 00:02:29.720 --> 00:02:34.239 signature red hair. I go up to her and congratulate 41 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:37.560 her on the center and on this conference. You tell 42 00:02:37.600 --> 00:02:40.000 me how you're feeling, Nicole, Just kind of how like 43 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:41.600 this moment, you. 44 00:02:41.560 --> 00:02:46.880 Know, relatively speaking for this moment at Howard, I feel amazing. 45 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:50.520 A year ago I had a vision of what I 46 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:53.520 wanted to create, and when I got to Howard that 47 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:57.120 I wanted to bring together rooms and journalists that look 48 00:02:57.200 --> 00:03:00.800 like America to talk about democracy in America and what 49 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:03.280 we need to do here. So to have brought it 50 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:07.120 to Fruition, Yeah, it's been. It's been powerful today. 51 00:03:07.200 --> 00:03:08.640 How does it feel to have a home? 52 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:13.560 Oh? God, And that's exactly what Howard feels like. You know, 53 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:16.600 when everything happened last year with the University of North Carolina, 54 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:19.200 it was destiny. You know, everything happened so that I 55 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:22.000 could come really needed to be and in every way, 56 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:24.800 Howard feels like home. So I'm just I'm grateful all 57 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:26.720 these other people get to experience a taste of what 58 00:03:26.760 --> 00:03:30.280 it's like here. As you know, I feel content, I 59 00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:33.520 feel in my purpose, and I am doing the work 60 00:03:33.760 --> 00:03:35.760 that I'm supposed to do where I'm supposed. 61 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:35.720 To do it. 62 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:38.080 I mean, it's just an emotional place. 63 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:39.280 It's an emotional day. 64 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:42.720 Yes, And the fact that you, Nicole, are you know 65 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:47.280 saying yes, democracy and journalism hand in hand, which to 66 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:49.960 our colleagues sometimes feels like such a threat. 67 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:52.920 That's right, you know, I mean, you know right. As 68 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:56.360 journalists of color, we could never pretend that our experiences 69 00:03:56.440 --> 00:04:00.000 don't shave our journalism. We could never pretend that democracy 70 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:02.840 is a given because it's never been for any of us. 71 00:04:03.880 --> 00:04:07.760 So to me, what we're trying to do is help 72 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:12.160 our professional understand. Yeah, I have to go back on 73 00:04:12.200 --> 00:04:13.440 face okay. 74 00:04:22.440 --> 00:04:25.520 From Fuduro Media and PRX. It's let you know us say, 75 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:29.840 I'm Maria r. Posa Today. A conversation with author, professor 76 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:40.479 and New York Times journalist Nicole Anna Jones. Nicole Hannah 77 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:46.040 Jones rose to instant recognition when she published The sixteen 78 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:48.679 nineteen Project in twenty nineteen. 79 00:04:49.200 --> 00:04:52.240 The Times of sixteen nineteen Project is a cultural history 80 00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:55.159 of how the legacy of slavery continues to shape and 81 00:04:55.240 --> 00:04:57.039 define life in America. 82 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:00.720 It marks the four hundredth anniversary of the arrival of 83 00:05:00.760 --> 00:05:04.120 the first enslaved Africans in the Colony of Virginia. 84 00:05:04.320 --> 00:05:08.400 The project aims to reframe the country's history, understanding sixteen 85 00:05:08.520 --> 00:05:11.839 nineteen is our true founding and placing the consequence. 86 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:15.839 Following the release of the sixteen nineteen Project, the far 87 00:05:15.960 --> 00:05:20.120 right propaganda machine went on the attack against Nicole and 88 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:24.440 her work. This included former President Donald Trump, who called 89 00:05:24.440 --> 00:05:26.880 the project quote unquote poison. 90 00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:32.560 This project rewrites American history to teach our children that 91 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:38.799 we were founded on the principle of oppression, not freedom. 92 00:05:39.400 --> 00:05:43.279 The work won Nicole a Pulitzer Prize in twenty twenty, 93 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:48.719 but the backlash continued since the project's release. State and 94 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:53.200 local governments have banned schools from teaching the sixteen nineteen 95 00:05:53.240 --> 00:06:00.400 project and have often conflated Nichole's work with critical race theory. Today, 96 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:04.680 Nicole Hannah Jones joins me for a conversation about how 97 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:08.880 she's pushed ahead despite controversy and how she's come to 98 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:13.000 terms with always trying to fit in in predominantly white 99 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:18.080 spaces as a black journalist. Later, we take a trip 100 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:22.280 to Nichole's hometown of Waterloo, Iowa, to see how she's 101 00:06:22.320 --> 00:06:28.080 giving back to the community with a special Passion project. 102 00:06:29.520 --> 00:06:34.480 Nicole Hannah Jones, Welcome to Latino, USA. It's so great 103 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:35.599 to have you on the show. 104 00:06:36.200 --> 00:06:38.280 Thank you. I'm glad to finally be. 105 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:40.599 Here, and I just want to say thank you for 106 00:06:40.640 --> 00:06:45.440 everything that you're doing, in particular because you included me 107 00:06:45.640 --> 00:06:49.800 in a pretty extraordinary moment, which was your Democracy Summit 108 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:55.120 in November of twenty twenty two, and there you actually 109 00:06:55.200 --> 00:06:59.160 said that you were really happy to be at Howard 110 00:06:59.200 --> 00:07:03.000 because you felt like finally you were at home. And 111 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:04.920 I'm wondering if you can just tell us a little 112 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:08.320 bit about that sense of Howard being your home for 113 00:07:08.400 --> 00:07:08.880 this work. 114 00:07:09.520 --> 00:07:14.520 Yes, thank you, so one. Always always happy to speak 115 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:18.320 with you. And you know, I'm such an admirer of 116 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:21.800 your work and the space that you make for Latino 117 00:07:21.880 --> 00:07:24.840 journalists but also just journalists of color and telling the 118 00:07:24.880 --> 00:07:28.360 stories of people of color. So and I just also 119 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:35.680 really enjoy your workout videos on Instagram. I would say 120 00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:38.840 it's inspiring. It does not inspire me to pursue the 121 00:07:38.880 --> 00:07:42.920 same thing, but I do enjoy watching that such a badass. 122 00:07:44.280 --> 00:07:48.720 So yeah, you know, I'm a person who in general 123 00:07:48.840 --> 00:07:53.080 does not believe in regrets. I think they're pretty useless. Right, 124 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:55.560 whatever has happened in the past, you can't do much 125 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:58.920 about it, so why spend a lot of time focusing 126 00:07:58.960 --> 00:08:02.000 on it. One of my very few regrets in life 127 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:05.320 is that I did not attend in historically black college, 128 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:09.720 and particularly that I didn't attend Howard, So I, like 129 00:08:09.880 --> 00:08:14.280 many people like us, made my way through white institutions 130 00:08:14.400 --> 00:08:16.600 starting in the second grade, when I was bussed to 131 00:08:16.640 --> 00:08:20.880 white schools, to my undergraduate institution, to graduate school, to 132 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:25.760 every newspaper I've ever worked at. And we feel sometimes 133 00:08:25.760 --> 00:08:28.200 that we have to do that to prove ourselves right, 134 00:08:28.280 --> 00:08:31.520 to show that we can excel in these white spaces, 135 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:35.360 but it comes at such a personal and emotional cost. 136 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:40.240 So being at Howard, to be at a place literally 137 00:08:40.679 --> 00:08:46.120 built around the belief in black excellence, built to provide 138 00:08:46.280 --> 00:08:50.240 education and opportunity for people who had been enslaved and 139 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:54.320 their descendants, and to walk on a campus where I 140 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:59.120 don't have to prove basic worth, basic intellect, basic value, 141 00:09:00.040 --> 00:09:03.800 and just teach my students in the tradition of my 142 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:08.000 community to do the journalism that I think are our 143 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:12.200 nation needs. So when I walk on campus, it's just 144 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:14.480 such a different feeling. And imagine you feel that with 145 00:09:14.520 --> 00:09:17.320 the media company that you've built. Right, It's like I 146 00:09:17.400 --> 00:09:21.440 walk on campus and I'm not reminded that I'm the 147 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:23.680 only one. I'm not having to search and find that 148 00:09:23.760 --> 00:09:25.880 other black person so I could do the head nod 149 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:28.560 with that other person. I don't go into a classroom 150 00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:31.720 and i'm you know, maybe two students who look like 151 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:35.160 me go into buildings that are named after slave owners, right, 152 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:37.360 I don't have to do any of those things, So 153 00:09:37.880 --> 00:09:38.920 it does feel like home. 154 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:41.760 I want to ask you for a second about what 155 00:09:41.800 --> 00:09:44.599 you just said, which is you and I both have 156 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:48.839 been working in predominantly white institutions, right, both of us 157 00:09:48.920 --> 00:09:53.040 in college and at work, and going to the Ivy League, 158 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:55.839 for you working at the New York Times, for me 159 00:09:56.040 --> 00:10:00.000 working at PBS and PRCNN. I mean, this did get 160 00:10:00.160 --> 00:10:04.200 us validation obviously in the mainstream news media. And you know, 161 00:10:04.280 --> 00:10:07.320 I just want to take a moment to talk about 162 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:10.360 this thing, right, How you and I both have spent 163 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:13.480 a lot of our careers actually having to get our 164 00:10:13.520 --> 00:10:18.559 stories approved by white men and really having to think 165 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:21.440 about all the time that we spent trying to get 166 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:25.280 them to approve these brilliant ideas, right. And I guess 167 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:27.440 just looking back, Nicole, how does it make you feel 168 00:10:27.480 --> 00:10:31.280 that we thought that we really had to prove ourselves 169 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:32.240 over and over again. 170 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:36.320 Yeah, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this. 171 00:10:36.440 --> 00:10:40.640 I remember being in high school and when I was 172 00:10:40.679 --> 00:10:43.920 trying to decide where I might go to college, really 173 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:47.320 understanding that I was going to have to get my 174 00:10:47.400 --> 00:10:52.359 credential from an elite white institution to try to mitigate racism. 175 00:10:52.520 --> 00:10:55.960 Like I'm like seventeen, eighteen years old, and I'm thinking, 176 00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:59.800 you know, if I have Notre Dame on my resume, 177 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:03.120 people will assume a certain amount of intelligence. Right. There 178 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:05.600 will be some things I'll still have to prove myself, 179 00:11:05.640 --> 00:11:08.240 but there will be things I won't have to work 180 00:11:08.280 --> 00:11:10.199 so hard to prove. And that's what I made that 181 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:14.959 decision on. And then until this year, I hadn't been 182 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:17.680 back to Notre Dame since the year after I graduated 183 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:20.839 because it was a terrible experience for me. It was 184 00:11:20.880 --> 00:11:24.440 a traumatizing experience for me. I don't have any of 185 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:27.080 the affection or affinity for my alma mater that so 186 00:11:27.160 --> 00:11:29.960 many people have for theirs. But I felt I had 187 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:32.440 to make that choice. And I think we get that 188 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:37.320 message pretty early in working class communities of color that 189 00:11:38.280 --> 00:11:41.120 when people in our community see a spark in us 190 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:46.720 or they believe, oh, this child has potential. It seems 191 00:11:46.760 --> 00:11:49.480 like one of the first messages we get is Okay, 192 00:11:49.520 --> 00:11:51.480 we have to we have to get this child out 193 00:11:51.520 --> 00:11:54.800 of this community, right. I remember people saying, get your 194 00:11:54.880 --> 00:11:56.760 education and get out of here. You have to get 195 00:11:56.760 --> 00:11:59.000 your educations, you can get out of here, And that 196 00:11:59.160 --> 00:12:03.640 sends a message that there's something wrong with our communities 197 00:12:03.880 --> 00:12:06.720 and that if you want to be successful, you have 198 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:10.679 to leave your communities or spaces that look like your community. 199 00:12:11.040 --> 00:12:15.560 And I certainly internalize that, and to some degree it 200 00:12:15.640 --> 00:12:17.640 is kind of true, right, like you do have to 201 00:12:17.679 --> 00:12:21.680 prove yourself in these white institutions. But then we don't 202 00:12:21.800 --> 00:12:24.840 think enough about the sacrifices that are made in order 203 00:12:24.880 --> 00:12:27.440 to do that. And I think both of us at 204 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:31.560 a certain point in our lives realized, actually, no, we don't. 205 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:35.000 We've proven everything we're ever going to prove, and so 206 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:37.280 I think both of us are trying to build spaces 207 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:40.920 where we can imbue young journalists of color and just 208 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:44.760 young people of color period with a different sensibility. 209 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:48.360 Nicole at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, 210 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:51.920 it is in fact your alma mater. That's also where 211 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.160 you ended up working as a journalism professor, and then 212 00:12:55.240 --> 00:12:58.520 you applied to get the night chair. This is one 213 00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:02.360 of the most prestigious journal chairs in the country. It 214 00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:06.920 comes with tenure if you do get it. But then 215 00:13:07.040 --> 00:13:10.360 there was some controversy. You went through this very public 216 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:13.760 tenure battle that came as a result of your work 217 00:13:13.800 --> 00:13:18.600 on your sixteen nineteen project, and ultimately, you know, you 218 00:13:18.760 --> 00:13:24.160 ended up scrapping all of that and moving to Howard University. 219 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:27.680 So can you tell me exactly how that happened? 220 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:32.760 Sure, so I applied. I went through the tenure review process, 221 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:37.280 full tenure review process. I was unanimously approved for tenure 222 00:13:37.760 --> 00:13:41.160 at the university level amongst faculty. But the board of 223 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:44.920 trustees for the university is they are political appointees and 224 00:13:45.160 --> 00:13:48.760 most of them had been appointed by Republican governors, and 225 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:53.040 they opposed the sixteen nineteen project, and a very wealthy 226 00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:57.960 donor interfered in my tenure process, and ultimately that's why 227 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:01.200 I was not granted the job of ten Now, the 228 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:04.280 craziest part about it is because I had become such 229 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:07.920 a divisive figure and had been in the media so much, 230 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:10.560 I wasn't even going to challenge it. I just didn't 231 00:14:10.640 --> 00:14:14.480 want to have this public fight. But the Conservatives who 232 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:17.319 stopped me from getting tenure were not satisfied with that. 233 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:20.000 I got a five year contract instead, and they didn't 234 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:23.320 think I should have that either, so they wrote a 235 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:26.440 story about how I shouldn't my tenure was taken and 236 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:28.400 I shouldn't have gotten hired at all, and then it 237 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:33.200 just blew up into a huge national scandal because it 238 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:36.360 was clear that I had been discriminated against both I 239 00:14:36.400 --> 00:14:39.720 think racially and for my viewpoint. And so in the 240 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:43.360 middle of that, I decided, you know, I wasn't going 241 00:14:43.400 --> 00:14:46.280 to go. So the fight was over them voting on 242 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:50.000 my tenure, which they ultimately did, and they ultimately approved 243 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:52.600 my tenure. But at that point I had decided I 244 00:14:52.680 --> 00:14:56.240 was done begging white institutions to let me in to 245 00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:59.160 treat us fairly. That I was going to go to 246 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:02.200 a store Workley Black College, and I was going to 247 00:15:02.280 --> 00:15:04.200 use that moment to make a statement about the worth 248 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:07.640 of people of color that institutions act like. We should 249 00:15:07.640 --> 00:15:11.040 feel lucky to be there, right, we should be blessed 250 00:15:11.040 --> 00:15:13.960 that they let us in and don't acknowledge everything that 251 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:17.600 we bring. It was just one of those moments where 252 00:15:17.920 --> 00:15:21.000 as a person of color, you excel because you have 253 00:15:21.080 --> 00:15:22.880 to write we have to be twice as good. We 254 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:25.520 know that's that's what we do and you can do 255 00:15:25.560 --> 00:15:27.600 everything that these folks tell you you have to do, 256 00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:29.720 and then at the end they'll just change the rules 257 00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:32.360 on you. So I just decided I wasn't playing their 258 00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:35.840 game anymore. And I was proud to come to Howard. 259 00:15:35.880 --> 00:15:38.440 I was proud to bring twenty plus million dollars with 260 00:15:38.560 --> 00:15:42.760 me at Howard and to found this center there for 261 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:46.720 the benefit of historically black colleges in general, and I 262 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:47.680 hope democracy. 263 00:15:48.680 --> 00:15:52.320 So again, Nicole, it's when we're together, it's fleeting, and 264 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:55.000 we don't often have the time to, you know, sit 265 00:15:55.040 --> 00:15:57.560 down and actually, like I don't know, have a the 266 00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:59.480 Gila or a cup of coffee and talk about these 267 00:15:59.520 --> 00:16:06.600 things in that life or but from afar, we admire 268 00:16:06.680 --> 00:16:09.960 each other, we support each other, we think about each other, 269 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:15.040 we applaud each other's work. But nothing that I have 270 00:16:15.280 --> 00:16:18.720 done has compared to what the kind of backlash that 271 00:16:18.800 --> 00:16:22.480 you have received because of your work. So states have 272 00:16:22.640 --> 00:16:26.760 banned your work, people go after you right now. Twitter 273 00:16:26.800 --> 00:16:29.840 is such a complicated place, but the social media kind 274 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:32.880 of attacks that aren't NonStop, and you are a black 275 00:16:32.920 --> 00:16:37.680 woman who is also a mom, So how do you 276 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:38.480 manage this? 277 00:16:39.160 --> 00:16:41.240 Thank you so much for asking that question, and I 278 00:16:41.280 --> 00:16:45.000 know you know because of the racist attacks that you 279 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.880 often experience that the work does take a toll. I mean, 280 00:16:48.920 --> 00:16:51.680 you know, we are badasses and a lot can roll 281 00:16:51.680 --> 00:16:54.080 off the air back, but we're also human beings, and 282 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:56.880 you know you can only be called it N words 283 00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:59.240 so many times and shrug it off like it does 284 00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:02.640 bother you, and you get threats when people try to 285 00:17:02.680 --> 00:17:05.640 discredit the work that you do. But if you would 286 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:07.920 ask me this a year ago or two years ago, 287 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:11.720 I was struggling. I won't lie. I didn't intend to 288 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:13.239 be in the public eye and the way that I 289 00:17:13.280 --> 00:17:16.879 have been. I'm a print journalist for a reason. I 290 00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:19.760 didn't expect to become a symbol either that people loved 291 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:22.840 or completely hated. And we were in the pandemic, so 292 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:25.720 I was just home alone, obsessing over every single thing 293 00:17:25.760 --> 00:17:28.720 that was being written or said about me, which is 294 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:30.880 why I was on Twitter. Probably are you in wait, 295 00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:34.320 wait more than I should have been. But right now 296 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:37.919 I really am in a state of the closest I 297 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:42.200 can say, is zen I understand that one you don't 298 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:45.640 attack something like this that you're not afraid of that 299 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:49.560 if this project, if this work wasn't having impact. They 300 00:17:49.600 --> 00:17:52.760 wouldn't be trying to ban it, they wouldn't be trying 301 00:17:52.800 --> 00:17:55.840 to destroy it. And so in some ways, that's the 302 00:17:55.880 --> 00:18:00.359 greatest honor I can imagine. It's when all of these powerful, 303 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:03.800 mostly white men feel the need to try to attack 304 00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:07.520 the work and to attack me. So I just I'm 305 00:18:07.600 --> 00:18:10.520 not on social media and that much. And Lord knows 306 00:18:10.520 --> 00:18:14.040 that that's actually very healthy. It's very healthy not to 307 00:18:14.080 --> 00:18:16.159 be on social and even if I am, I'm rarely 308 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:20.000 engaging anymore. I'm focusing on the work that I'm doing. 309 00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:23.800 I spend time with my friends and family and go 310 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:28.160 to the spot when I can, and really just trying 311 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:33.360 to focus on what is important. I come from a 312 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:37.639 blue collar town, from a family that had nothing, and 313 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:41.160 all you have is your respect, So respect becomes so important. 314 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:42.720 So when people would be like, oh, just let it 315 00:18:42.800 --> 00:18:44.879 roll off your back, I don't actually know how to 316 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.760 do that, right because to me, not answering disrespect when 317 00:18:49.800 --> 00:18:51.800 I know how hard we worked on this, when I 318 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:55.520 know that's so hard for me. Except what I've come 319 00:18:55.560 --> 00:18:59.320 to now understand is these are people who if they 320 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:02.600 say something, no one pays attention to it until I respond. 321 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:06.200 And that I was allowing people to drag me into 322 00:19:06.320 --> 00:19:09.480 arguments that benefited them and did nothing for me. 323 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:17.479 Coming up on Latino USA, I continue my conversation with 324 00:19:17.520 --> 00:19:21.280 the Cole Hannah Jones and later Latino USA producer Ronaldo 325 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:26.400 Leanos Junior takes us to Waterloo, Iowa, where we visit 326 00:19:26.520 --> 00:19:57.720 Nicole's passion project for sixteen nineteen Freedom School. Stay with us, Yes, hey, 327 00:19:57.760 --> 00:20:01.439 we're back. And before the break, we were speaking with 328 00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:06.120 Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Nicole Hannah Jones and we were 329 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:09.920 talking about feeling at home at Howard University after her 330 00:20:10.040 --> 00:20:12.840 very public battle with the University of North Carolina at 331 00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:17.479 Chapel Hill. Let's dive back into my conversation with Nicole 332 00:20:17.600 --> 00:20:21.360 and later producer Renaldo Leanos Junior is going to take 333 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:25.159 us to Waterloo, Iowa, where Nicole grew up, and we 334 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:34.400 get to visit Nichole's sixteen nineteen Freedom School. Nicole, while 335 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:37.800 you were busy dealing with the tenure battle, you were 336 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:41.240 also a working journalist for The New York Times. You 337 00:20:41.280 --> 00:20:44.520 were promoting your book. On top of all of that, 338 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:49.320 you also, you know, you managed to have time the 339 00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:53.240 vision to open an after school program. It's the sixteen 340 00:20:53.520 --> 00:20:57.640 nineteen Freedom School in Waterloo, Iowa. And the school has 341 00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:00.119 been open for a year now. Can you tell tell 342 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:01.760 me what's the story behind that? 343 00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:05.960 You know? So I come from this. I always say, 344 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:09.080 no name town in a flyover state, in a place 345 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:11.080 that most people don't even think about when you think 346 00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:14.800 about black people. Nobody thinks about Iowa, but we are everywhere. 347 00:21:15.280 --> 00:21:17.680 I really do believe in a common good. I really 348 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:20.560 do believe that our fates are intertwined. And I think 349 00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:24.880 that comes from again coming from a people where when 350 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:28.480 you are black in this country, your individual status, your 351 00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:32.119 individual accomplishments, none of that mattered. You still couldn't go 352 00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:34.320 into the restaurant you wanted to go to. You still 353 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:39.960 couldn't get into universities in the South. Your collective identity 354 00:21:40.560 --> 00:21:45.240 is what determined most opportunities in your life. So we've 355 00:21:45.280 --> 00:21:48.320 had to be a collective people, and we've had to 356 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:52.880 realize that you can't just advocate for yourself because if 357 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:55.080 the rest of your community is held down, you will 358 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:58.080 be held down as well. So my best friend from 359 00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:01.920 high school is a elementary school teacher in Waterloo, in 360 00:22:02.080 --> 00:22:07.280 the poorest, most segregated elementary school, and I had adopted 361 00:22:07.280 --> 00:22:10.399 her class, buying books for the kids coming and talking 362 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:13.200 to the kids. And during the pandemic, I was talking 363 00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:15.280 to her about how few of her kids were logging 364 00:22:15.280 --> 00:22:17.359 in right when the school shut down and we were 365 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:20.000 all in virtual school. Well, these kids, many of them, 366 00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:22.879 they don't have computers at home, or they may have 367 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:25.920 one device, and all the kids are sharing the same device. 368 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:28.960 Mom is working two jobs, and there's no one there 369 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:31.040 to sit at the computer with them all day and 370 00:22:31.080 --> 00:22:33.240 make sure they're doing the school work. And I was like, 371 00:22:33.280 --> 00:22:36.320 these kids are already two to three grade levels behind 372 00:22:36.320 --> 00:22:40.520 and reading before the pandemic, so the pandemic was going 373 00:22:40.560 --> 00:22:42.840 to be devastating for them. And I'd been trying to 374 00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:45.000 think of a way to give back to my hometown anyway, 375 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:48.640 because you know, there is a bit of guilt about 376 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:53.240 being so successful, but your community is not. Your community 377 00:22:53.320 --> 00:22:56.359 is struggling. When I go home, nobody lives like me, 378 00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:59.040 And so I decided. Then I was talking to my 379 00:22:59.080 --> 00:23:01.679 best friend and she's the co director and lead teacher 380 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:03.720 of the Freedom School, and I said, we should just 381 00:23:03.760 --> 00:23:08.200 start after school literacy program for these kids, and it 382 00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:11.520 should be based around them learning their history because they 383 00:23:11.520 --> 00:23:15.080 don't get black history in school, and so we provide 384 00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:18.800 everything for free. We have a professionally designed curriculum, a 385 00:23:18.840 --> 00:23:22.560 beautiful library, a beautiful facility with murals. I brought in 386 00:23:22.560 --> 00:23:25.919 a mirror list. All of our teachers are certified teachers, 387 00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:28.800 and they just get the love, the nurturing, and the 388 00:23:28.840 --> 00:23:32.720 affirmation as well as the literacy instruction that they so 389 00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:35.520 desperately need. Of all the things that I've done, I'm 390 00:23:35.560 --> 00:23:38.399 the most proud of this. It's not built like a classroom. 391 00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:42.200 There's sofas, there's big pillows, like they can come, grab 392 00:23:42.280 --> 00:23:46.600 their book, lay on the sofa, go into our library 393 00:23:46.760 --> 00:23:51.080 and just feel loved. And that the reason so many 394 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:55.600 of our kids don't like to read is because they can't. Right, 395 00:23:55.640 --> 00:23:58.040 none of us want to sit all day trying to 396 00:23:58.560 --> 00:24:01.360 work on something that we can't do. And once we 397 00:24:01.800 --> 00:24:04.600 started giving them literacy instruction and they could actually read, 398 00:24:04.840 --> 00:24:08.320 they love reading. Big shocker, Right, It's not shocking, it's 399 00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:11.240 we know how to educate our kids, we just refuse 400 00:24:11.320 --> 00:24:14.040 to do it. So yeah, it's truly the greatest thing 401 00:24:14.040 --> 00:24:22.080