WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:09.160 From Futro Media and PRX. It's Latino USA. I'm Mariano Rosa. 2 00:00:09.600 --> 00:00:13.960 Today a preview of the second episode of season two 3 00:00:14.520 --> 00:00:29.480 of our Bulletzer Prize winning podcast Suave. Well, Dear listener, 4 00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:33.480 it's been seven years since the release of David Luis 5 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:38.159 Suave Gonzalez from a maximum security prison. Suave had been 6 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:42.640 sentenced to life without parole as a teenager. But you 7 00:00:42.720 --> 00:00:46.960 might remember we were there when Suave finally walked out 8 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:52.600 of prison seven years ago. Now, Suave is navigating life 9 00:00:52.720 --> 00:00:55.920 as a freeman and dealing with all of the feelings 10 00:00:55.960 --> 00:00:59.720 and pressure that comes with it, because starting over is 11 00:00:59.800 --> 00:01:03.520 complicated and on the outside, life can come at you 12 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:09.240 dangerously fast. This season, we're gonna go deep into Suave's 13 00:01:09.400 --> 00:01:14.040 quest to define what freedom really means for him. Ririeta 14 00:01:14.080 --> 00:01:17.680 Martinelli is the host of Suavest season two, and she's 15 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:21.160 gonna guide us through this journey. And just a warning, 16 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:28.880 dear listener, this episode contained some strong language. 17 00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:36.240 Sometimes I do think that I was better off locked up, 18 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:40.839 and that's hard to say, but it's the truth. 19 00:01:42.800 --> 00:01:46.080 You know, it's the truth, man, And whoever. 20 00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:48.800 Been locked up thirty one years or more and tell 21 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:51.680 you otherwise it's Lyne dayline. 22 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:57.480 I'm still living. I still live like I'm in prison. 23 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:02.520 Like locked up, like I'm in my father fucking jail set. 24 00:02:03.320 --> 00:02:07.600 You know, that's the scary part for me, because I 25 00:02:07.640 --> 00:02:18.600 haven't been able to shake it off. Shit another day 26 00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:30.919 in this world. Five o'clock in the morning, just cutting up. Bella, Bella, 27 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:32.320 I'm gonna whip your ass. 28 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:37.520 Bella Suave, formerly one of the hardest guys on the 29 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:41.560 block at Greater for Prison, now a doting cat. 30 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:42.799 Dat man. 31 00:02:43.160 --> 00:02:47.440 Bella just snuck in the bed and chucked in under 32 00:02:47.440 --> 00:02:50.600 my arms when I was sleeping, got hair all over 33 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:51.679 my black sheets. 34 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:56.919 And this cat, she's got an adorable wardrobe of yes, 35 00:02:57.400 --> 00:02:58.519 pink dresses. 36 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:01.919 I get her these little warm outfits. I think it's 37 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:04.480 so cute. I don't think Bella understands she's a girl, 38 00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:08.200 so I put pink onhot to let her know, Like, 39 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:10.519 look at yourself in the mirror, you are a girl. 40 00:03:10.600 --> 00:03:10.880 Bella. 41 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:15.919 Swabe's studio apartment is pretty tiny, but after decades in 42 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:20.160 a small cell, Swabi says it felt kind of palatial 43 00:03:20.440 --> 00:03:24.000 when he moved in. He calls his apartment a. 44 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:28.040 Hard class prison cell. I don't need a whole lot. 45 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:29.680 It's better than a house for. 46 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:37.920 Me, unlike a prison cell. 47 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:38.240 Though. 48 00:03:38.600 --> 00:03:42.440 There's a big fluffy bed here. Also, it's kind of 49 00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:46.360 Bella's bed. But after sleeping on a three inch mattress 50 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:50.720 over a metal slab for three decades, he can't really 51 00:03:50.760 --> 00:03:54.000 get comfortable on this bed sometimes. 52 00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:56.280 And you know, I don't even tell people this, but 53 00:03:56.440 --> 00:04:00.080 sometimes I just take a sheet or quilt, put it 54 00:04:00.160 --> 00:04:01.800 on the floor and lay on the floor. 55 00:04:02.720 --> 00:04:05.280 It turns out it's harder than it seems to break 56 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:06.280 some prison habits. 57 00:04:07.960 --> 00:04:09.080 In prison, you got. 58 00:04:08.880 --> 00:04:11.320 To get up and the gul walk around and make 59 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:14.880 sure you physically there. They blow a boohall like ten 60 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:20.200 minutes before they come around. Count Ton, Count Tom. That's 61 00:04:20.200 --> 00:04:25.520 what they would yell every morning. At home. It's almost 62 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:28.520 the same thing. I get up Bella and be all 63 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:29.640 content together. 64 00:04:32.880 --> 00:04:36.719 You know, I always worry about suavez sleeping situation. It's 65 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:38.839 kind of weird. It's one of the things that I'm like, 66 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:42.680 is he sleeping? And lately he's been telling me that 67 00:04:42.760 --> 00:04:46.599 he's sleeping even less, and you know, he he jokes 68 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:48.680 about it. Actually he's I think he's kind of like 69 00:04:49.080 --> 00:04:51.320 showing off because you know, he's working a bunch of 70 00:04:51.400 --> 00:04:53.840 jobs and there's always something going on and. 71 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:54.440 It's a thing. 72 00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:58.080 And Maria, you've offered him some advice that has helped 73 00:04:58.120 --> 00:04:58.799 you sleep. 74 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:01.760 I worry because you're like, I've been up all night, 75 00:05:02.440 --> 00:05:06.400 haven't slept, and I do have some cannabis bills that 76 00:05:06.760 --> 00:05:07.800 will knock you out. 77 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:08.440 Well. 78 00:05:08.520 --> 00:05:12.200 I appreciate the cannabis, right, but also I just want 79 00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:14.920 to make you aware and the whole team that if 80 00:05:14.960 --> 00:05:18.359 I do take some cannabis, whether it's medically or not, 81 00:05:19.440 --> 00:05:22.039 you are like saying we see you in about six months, 82 00:05:22.080 --> 00:05:24.400 because that's like a direct violation for parole. 83 00:05:25.400 --> 00:05:28.760 Shit. I'm sorry, and so I would stay away from 84 00:05:28.760 --> 00:05:29.400 that one. 85 00:05:30.880 --> 00:05:31.840 Damn bro. 86 00:05:39.960 --> 00:05:44.640 From Futura Studios. This is Suave. I'm Julie de Martinelli. 87 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:51.000 In twenty seventeen, David Luis Swave Gonzalez was released from 88 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:55.120 prison after thirty one years serving a life sentence without parole. 89 00:05:55.880 --> 00:05:58.800 He was one of thousands of juvenile lifers granted a 90 00:05:58.880 --> 00:06:03.520 second chance at This is a story about life after 91 00:06:03.640 --> 00:06:07.640 incarceration and the search for the true meaning of freedom. 92 00:06:09.080 --> 00:06:16.400 This is season two. On this episode the Long Shadow 93 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:17.080 of Parole. 94 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:21.279 So you know, ju I don't know if this happens 95 00:06:21.320 --> 00:06:24.200 to you, but at this point, I've been checking in 96 00:06:24.200 --> 00:06:27.600 with Swavee basically weekly, if not multiple times a week 97 00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:32.320 for years now, and you know, it's like, you can 98 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:36.160 forget that this guy is still essentially governed by a 99 00:06:36.279 --> 00:06:41.600 very strict set of rules that keep him tethered like emotionally, psychologically, 100 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:45.960 spiritually to this prison past. And you know, it's bigger 101 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:48.880 than sleeping on the floor or waking up for count time. 102 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:50.279 I mean, it's it's deep. 103 00:06:50.640 --> 00:06:54.279 You're right, because seven years out, Suave is still on 104 00:06:54.400 --> 00:06:58.159 parole and he will be forever. And that's because he 105 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:01.440 has lifetime parole. And that means. 106 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:05.160 Basically, you're still incarcerated. You're just serving your time out 107 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:06.040 in society. 108 00:07:07.080 --> 00:07:09.280 The thing is is that even though Suave is free 109 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:14.840 on parole, he still technically has a life sentence, but 110 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:17.840 he just gets to serve it on the outside. 111 00:07:18.200 --> 00:07:20.800 Yeah, and he can be so nonchalant about it, I mean, 112 00:07:20.840 --> 00:07:23.640 but the reality still is that freedom is a privilege 113 00:07:23.640 --> 00:07:27.119 for Suave, and that privilege can be taken away pretty 114 00:07:27.200 --> 00:07:28.480 much for anything. 115 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:32.160 Yeah, So we asked him to actually list some of 116 00:07:32.200 --> 00:07:36.040 the rules that he has to follow forever. 117 00:07:36.760 --> 00:07:38.920 I can't travel without permission. 118 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:42.679 I can't move from one house to another house without 119 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:43.720 asking permission. 120 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:47.320 You really can't have any interaction with the police. 121 00:07:47.760 --> 00:07:50.800 I can't be around certain people. I can't go to 122 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:52.040 certain establishment. 123 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:56.840 Right, so he's banned forever from visiting anyone in prison 124 00:07:57.080 --> 00:07:59.720 that he was incarcerated with, even if it's family. 125 00:08:00.840 --> 00:08:01.640 I can't drink. 126 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:05.200 I cannot smoke a little bit of weed or smoke 127 00:08:05.280 --> 00:08:06.120 me a Philly blunt. 128 00:08:06.960 --> 00:08:10.239 And that's even though alcohol is legal for any adult 129 00:08:10.360 --> 00:08:14.160 and that weed has been decriminalized in Philly, but not 130 00:08:14.360 --> 00:08:15.200 for Swave. 131 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:18.080 Can't do that because if they take the or and 132 00:08:18.280 --> 00:08:19.920 come up hot as a volidation. 133 00:08:20.520 --> 00:08:25.760 Oh yeah, Also, he has to pay them for this privilege. 134 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:32.000 You paying the parole bull a monthly fee to supervise 135 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:33.360 you for what. 136 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:38.559 For someone on the outside, just imagining living with all 137 00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:46.720 of these rules, it sounds entirely crazy. Swave has to 138 00:08:46.760 --> 00:08:51.480 be perfect one hundred percent of the time because guaiget 139 00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:54.440 Go si that any little thing can literally change the 140 00:08:54.520 --> 00:08:57.320 course of his life in an instant. 141 00:08:57.480 --> 00:09:00.840 Yeah. That means that even the most monday of things 142 00:09:00.920 --> 00:09:03.160 that you and I never think of in our daily 143 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:06.840 life can become really really scary for Suave. 144 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:17.040 Today is probably the first time I take my card 145 00:09:17.040 --> 00:09:22.840 out in six months out to a drive. I'm fucking nervous. 146 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:25.720 I'm shaking, I get anxiety. 147 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:30.160 It's a weekday and Swave usually takes the Septa bus 148 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:33.840 to get to work at Community College of Philadelphia, but 149 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.880 today he's got so many errands it's just not feasible 150 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:39.520 to take the bus. 151 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:44.520 For a lot of people, driving is something they look 152 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:45.360 forward to doing. 153 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:46.559 Not me, not me. 154 00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:50.160 I hate fucking driving. I hate it. I don't know 155 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:53.120 how to deal with my anxiety. When I'm behind the 156 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:55.520 will my anxiety take over to the point where I 157 00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:59.400 just want to crash the car somewhere and stop and 158 00:09:59.520 --> 00:10:00.880 get out and leave it running. 159 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:03.920 So I just don't drive. I just don't drive. 160 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:08.000 It's a sunny day and Suave is writing in his 161 00:10:08.160 --> 00:10:11.640 gray Hyundai. He's wearing a gray suit with a black 162 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:15.800 shirt underneath. He's sitting close to the wheel and he's 163 00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:17.319 holding it pretty tight. 164 00:10:17.880 --> 00:10:22.880 I am really, really, really afraid to get stopped by 165 00:10:22.880 --> 00:10:26.040 the police. The minute they stop you and they find 166 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:29.439 out you on parole, you're getting handcuffed. Now your car 167 00:10:29.559 --> 00:10:32.400 getting searched, and if you don't report that traffic stop 168 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:36.160 to parole. It's a violation of your conditions and that 169 00:10:36.280 --> 00:10:37.120 could lock you up. 170 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:41.440 The anxiety is so bad that Swave ends up asking 171 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:46.240 a friend to drive him home that night. But there 172 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:50.200 is some hope for the future. Technically, there is some 173 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:53.480 legal recourse that could allow Suave to get off of 174 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:57.319 lifetime parole, even if it's kind of a long shot. 175 00:10:57.720 --> 00:11:02.640 We gotta file for complete commotation from the parting board. 176 00:11:03.400 --> 00:11:07.040 Commutation just means that the remaining term of his sentence 177 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:12.080 is completely forgiven. But it's not easy to get. 178 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:13.480 It's almost like hitting the lottery. 179 00:11:13.800 --> 00:11:16.720 You got to have the Attorney General's vote and then 180 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:21.080 unanimous vote basically before it gets to the governor's office, 181 00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:22.800 and then he got to consider it. 182 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:27.760 Like not easy at all. 183 00:11:27.960 --> 00:11:31.360 The Board of Pardons doesn't state just how long after 184 00:11:31.400 --> 00:11:34.800 a conviction they'll consider a pardon. They just mentioned that 185 00:11:34.880 --> 00:11:38.200 they do consider the length of time. But a report 186 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:41.960 by the Community Legal Services of Philadelphia, who work with 187 00:11:42.040 --> 00:11:45.400 clients that are going through this process, confirms that the 188 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:48.800 majority of people who are successful have been out of 189 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:52.760 prison for about five to ten years, depending on the offense. 190 00:11:53.520 --> 00:11:55.760 I'm coming up by my seven years in November. 191 00:11:56.679 --> 00:12:01.880 It might be impossible, but maybe us, maybe would that 192 00:12:02.040 --> 00:12:11.480 feel like true freedom? 193 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:12.480 We have to do that. 194 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:15.360 Good afternoon, God, I haven't talked to you in a 195 00:12:15.400 --> 00:12:16.400 long time, man. 196 00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:18.960 Three years to talk all the time. 197 00:12:20.640 --> 00:12:22.880 Listen, I'm gonna tell you I don't laugh at this 198 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:24.880 fleet it was you could laugh. 199 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:28.800 So on this Sunday afternoon, Save calls me like he 200 00:12:28.880 --> 00:12:32.000 usually does, and he tells me about his weekend. Tells 201 00:12:32.040 --> 00:12:33.920 me that he was hanging out with a group of 202 00:12:33.920 --> 00:12:36.760 guys that he knew from prison. That they showed up 203 00:12:36.760 --> 00:12:39.719 to his place for a barbecue, and you know, these 204 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:41.800 are guys that he used to be locked up with. 205 00:12:42.120 --> 00:12:45.720 So we started off sinking karaoke with Lavo and we 206 00:12:45.760 --> 00:12:47.319 had a we had a food drink. 207 00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:51.640 Oh no that, Oh no, why did you say that? 208 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:52.040 Maria? 209 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:55.120 At that moment, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, 210 00:12:55.160 --> 00:12:57.839 because you know you can't be drinking. And then I'm 211 00:12:57.840 --> 00:12:59.760 all like, oh my god, what happens if Perole calls 212 00:12:59.800 --> 00:13:02.720 him right now at this precise moment. But you know 213 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:05.400 the good news is that the story didn't end up 214 00:13:05.400 --> 00:13:06.280 going in that direction. 215 00:13:06.760 --> 00:13:10.520 And guess what's song we end up singing? Manulo sue what. 216 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:13.760 They helped me more, I swear to God. 217 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:15.960 And then he tells me that like one of his 218 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:18.800 friends had her phone out at that moment and then 219 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:20.160 she recorded. 220 00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:28.320 Me dancing to Mark Anthony Dan I was drunk. 221 00:13:28.800 --> 00:13:30.920 Oh my God's right. I can't believe you got drunk. 222 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:34.840 I can't believe you got drunk. Actually, I've never seen drunk. 223 00:13:34.920 --> 00:13:35.839 Sat. 224 00:13:36.679 --> 00:13:37.920 I really enjoyed. 225 00:13:38.520 --> 00:13:41.400 I'm having two or three of my friends that we've 226 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:44.760 done time with. You know, my friend says something to me. 227 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:48.840 He's like, damn, we walked the first in yard together 228 00:13:49.760 --> 00:13:53.000 for decades and now we're sitting in your. 229 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:57.160 Backyard drinking the head and eating burned. 230 00:13:56.920 --> 00:13:59.880 Hot dogs, and they paste sue it. 231 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:05.640 You know, it was really sweet just hearing Suavit tell 232 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:09.200 this story with so much joy and happiness. 233 00:14:09.520 --> 00:14:13.400 But Swaba doesn't always enjoy getting together with his prison friends. 234 00:14:14.040 --> 00:14:16.640 Part of it is parole and it can be risky 235 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:19.480 to be around people that are drinking or smoking wheat 236 00:14:19.520 --> 00:14:23.920 around you. But that's not really it. It's because it 237 00:14:23.960 --> 00:14:26.720 can get complicated for him emotionally. 238 00:14:27.800 --> 00:14:30.440 I don't have the desire to meet with guys that 239 00:14:30.520 --> 00:14:32.080 I did thirty forty. 240 00:14:31.800 --> 00:14:35.600 Years after telling me that Swave sits with this thought 241 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:40.160 for a minute, then he backtracks. It's not about not 242 00:14:40.400 --> 00:14:42.600 wanting to see the guys, but. 243 00:14:43.160 --> 00:14:45.960 A lot of it has to do with y'all not 244 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:49.960 on parole. I'm on parole. It's like a reality check, like, Bro, 245 00:14:50.040 --> 00:14:53.720 you really not free. Bro, You're really not free. 246 00:14:54.520 --> 00:14:58.000 You're just alone for the ride. 247 00:14:58.760 --> 00:15:03.440 So former joy know lifers like Suavet they're all on parole. 248 00:15:04.120 --> 00:15:06.640 But most people who go to prison, they're going for 249 00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:09.720 shorter terms, so they're actually coming out with a clean 250 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:14.120 slate after their sentence. And many of Swave's prison buddies 251 00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:18.320 don't really have to worry about parole. After decades of 252 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:21.680 supporting each other in prison, the rules that guy, their 253 00:15:21.760 --> 00:15:23.920 lives are now very different. 254 00:15:24.680 --> 00:15:27.600 Yeah, I mean. Swabet tells me that he's starting to 255 00:15:27.640 --> 00:15:32.280 find it harder and harder to relate and that for 256 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:34.800 a long time these were the only people in his 257 00:15:34.920 --> 00:15:38.800 life who could really understand him. But it's changing. 258 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:43.520 Sometimes it feels like, wow, damn, man, I deserve that 259 00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:46.960 chance more than you. I get that feeling sometimes like 260 00:15:47.400 --> 00:15:49.360 you got a chance and you ain't doing shit with it. 261 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:51.280 Man, I deserve that chance more than you. 262 00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:01.560 It sounds harsh, but what does it feel like to 263 00:16:01.680 --> 00:16:05.640 know the people on the outside can't ever really understand 264 00:16:05.640 --> 00:16:09.360 how you feel? And then Swabi's prison friends, who are 265 00:16:09.400 --> 00:16:13.520 supposed to understand, well, they're moving on themselves. 266 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:20.840 Sometimes if oh, man, while is I'm saying this on 267 00:16:21.040 --> 00:16:21.840 tape man. 268 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:25.000 But sometimes it just feels. 269 00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:32.360 It just feel like, damn, I'm fucking jealous, like the fuck. 270 00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:04.880 In January, I meet up with Swave in Atlanta, where 271 00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:07.439 I live. Swab is in town to speak at a 272 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:11.760 criminal justice reform conference. Over the last five years that 273 00:17:11.800 --> 00:17:15.560 I've been producing Suave, I've gone to Philly a lot, 274 00:17:16.119 --> 00:17:20.200 but we never really hung out in my turf. So 275 00:17:20.600 --> 00:17:23.960 we are in front of a waffle house right in 276 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:25.440 front of Centennial Olympic Park. 277 00:17:25.520 --> 00:17:27.280 It's Alana. I love it down here. 278 00:17:28.560 --> 00:17:31.239 And while he's in town, we've been invited to an 279 00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:37.119 artist showcase at the infamous Stanconia Studios. Suaves seems really excited. 280 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:41.840 Okay, So I know I'm supposed to know what Stankonia 281 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:45.320 Studios is, but I don't, So what is it. 282 00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:50.720 Stanconia is the most Atlanta of all Atlanta places. I mean, 283 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:55.399 it's just this legendary studio where Outcasts recorded a bunch 284 00:17:55.480 --> 00:18:01.040 of classics. Honestly, it's pretty iconic, Maria. Everyone from TLC 285 00:18:01.320 --> 00:18:03.920 to TI to Ludacris have recorded there. 286 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:08.240 Oh my god. So like Suave a big hip hop head. 287 00:18:08.760 --> 00:18:10.639 I mean, he's just got to be like, wait, what 288 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:12.160 I get to go to this studio? 289 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:15.679 Yeah, he was, you know. And anyway, so we decided 290 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.400 to meet there, and that night, as I'm getting ready 291 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:22.040 to head out, Swavic just suddenly stops responding to all 292 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:31.080 my phone calls. Your call has been forwarded to an 293 00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:34.000 automatic voice message. So the next day I finally hear 294 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:37.120 back from him, and it turns out he did go, 295 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:40.199 but he was out of there so fast, and he 296 00:18:40.320 --> 00:18:42.400 just didn't know how to explain it to me, so 297 00:18:42.800 --> 00:18:45.960 he just ignored my calls. So I ask him why, 298 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:48.640 I mean, like, what's up? What happened? We had all 299 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:50.879 these plans and then he just left me hanging. 300 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:53.560 We go through the Dog and you like in this 301 00:18:53.800 --> 00:19:03.560 space hogh stage, Spaceship Smoke DJ. It was like going 302 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.600 into an outcast rack video, like for real, it was 303 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:09.080 like being in a video. 304 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:11.000 But then the. 305 00:19:11.080 --> 00:19:15.600 Crowd, the energy, it's like WHOA. I met with my 306 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:18.960 friend's friend he's you know what's up, bro? 307 00:19:19.080 --> 00:19:19.520 You good? 308 00:19:19.760 --> 00:19:22.520 You know you with me? But I see the budge 309 00:19:22.560 --> 00:19:26.160 in his waistline like I'm like, shit, everybody in here 310 00:19:26.840 --> 00:19:27.920 has a gun. 311 00:19:33.840 --> 00:19:35.520 And the thing is, you know a lot of people 312 00:19:35.520 --> 00:19:38.800 in Atlanta carry a gun. It's kind of become normal 313 00:19:38.840 --> 00:19:41.720 for me. You know, open carry is legal here in Georgia. 314 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:45.359 So I had never really considered that Swaven might find 315 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:49.280 it risky or even like upsetting until this moment. 316 00:19:50.280 --> 00:19:52.639 If somebody bump in to me, I got to be 317 00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:54.600 the one that bitch up and be like, oh my bad, 318 00:19:54.760 --> 00:19:58.000 you know, because I'm probably the only one did not packing. 319 00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:03.040 You get liud with somebody, you might get shot, seriously, 320 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.440 So I'm like, no, I'm cool, I'm out. I don't 321 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:09.240 like being in them places where I feel defenseless. 322 00:20:09.800 --> 00:20:13.080 And of course he has to think about his lifetime. 323 00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:17.120 Parole something jump off, dude, what was you even doing 324 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:17.720 in that he room. 325 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:19.520 That's the first thing that parole won't say. 326 00:20:19.840 --> 00:20:23.120 The thing is Ripe is right. Anything going sideways here 327 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:24.760 could land him back in prison. 328 00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:27.320 So better just to get out of there. 329 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:30.359 You know, I'm not hanging with little ray Red and 330 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:34.040 Raheem from not the block, I'm not now. When I 331 00:20:34.080 --> 00:20:37.120 came home, I wanted it. I've wanted that seventeen year 332 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:39.440 old life. I wanted what I missed when I went 333 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:43.199 to jail, minus standing in the corner. 334 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:45.919 But I like, I liked that shit. I like that smoke. 335 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:49.320 I like I like that irving excitement where I could 336 00:20:49.320 --> 00:20:51.719 be in the corner and hit gun shots. And but 337 00:20:51.760 --> 00:20:53.800 I'm not involved with it. But I like that shit, 338 00:20:54.600 --> 00:20:56.040 you know I still do. 339 00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:59.760 I mean, think about what he said about the guns. 340 00:21:00.320 --> 00:21:02.920 Before he went to prison. He used to be one 341 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:07.800 of these guys, packing, talking, bold, just fearless, you know 342 00:21:07.840 --> 00:21:11.280 how he is. But now he really can't be that 343 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:17.159 way anymore. The risk is too big. So it's interesting 344 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:21.240 and also even a little confusing. Swabe has to live 345 00:21:21.320 --> 00:21:24.639 by all these rules, but he also pushes back on 346 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:25.679 them regularly. 347 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:29.000 Somebody might say, well, that's a dangerous game. They could 348 00:21:29.080 --> 00:21:32.359 violate you truth. Those are the consequences that come with 349 00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:36.239 you making certain actions. Man, So I do a lot 350 00:21:36.280 --> 00:21:38.760 of stuff that I'm not supposed to do, only because 351 00:21:38.840 --> 00:21:39.760 I want to feel human. 352 00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:45.960 When he says this, like, it really does click for me. Yeah, 353 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:49.280 We're like, it's always this balance, right of how we 354 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:53.040 live out there in the world. And in some ways, 355 00:21:53.320 --> 00:21:56.000 I kind of think that we've gotten a little comfortable 356 00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.280 with the risks that Suave takes. I mean, the thing 357 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:03.160 or not paying his parole fees on time, and it's 358 00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:05.720 kind of like, haha, you know, move on, ha ha. 359 00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:10.440 But the reality is that Suave is doing constant risk assessment, 360 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:14.000 deciding how much to break the rules, when and where, 361 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:16.679 how much can he live with, and how much of 362 00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:21.000 this actually gives him life. And for me, it's always like, yo, bro, 363 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:25.879 why why take that risk? And you can see Suave 364 00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:28.639 is struggling. And you know, I think about his past. 365 00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:31.240 Is he a rule follower? 366 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:32.000 No? 367 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:35.520 I mean absolutely not. That has not been his identity. 368 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:39.959 And I can see he's feeling this disconnect between his 369 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:44.160 new friends and his old friends, his new life and 370 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:48.359 his old life. He's somewhere in the middle wrestling with 371 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:51.280 this new identity. 372 00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:04.520 Later that day, in Atlanta, Swabe and I sit across 373 00:23:04.560 --> 00:23:07.639 from each other at the hotel lobby. He's wearing a 374 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:11.240 cream hoodie with a pair of matching Joggers cream and 375 00:23:11.320 --> 00:23:15.520 mint green sneakers, and of course a Yankee sat and 376 00:23:15.560 --> 00:23:18.119 he tells me a story about a friend from inside 377 00:23:18.320 --> 00:23:19.920 who just got out of prison. 378 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:24.920 A couple of days ago. My homie just came home. 379 00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:28.959 He was able to work out or release without lifetime parole. 380 00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:31.800 This dude was like, my brother got him a job. 381 00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:35.920 He told me straight up, I'm not going to work 382 00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:39.040 for them. No, you know, oh, they're not paying me enough. 383 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:43.359 And you know, I left the conversation there because the 384 00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:45.400 that is like my brother, right, But. 385 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:49.840 Then the conversation went into some pretty interesting territory. 386 00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:55.399 But then I'm thinking, like he had no restrictions, he 387 00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.000 had no parole, so he freed to go anywhere he 388 00:23:59.080 --> 00:24:05.720 wanted to go. That's dangerous. The why it's dangerous because 389 00:24:05.760 --> 00:24:06.600 he could say I. 390 00:24:06.520 --> 00:24:08.040 Don't want to work no way you said. 391 00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:12.080 He came home. He's not on parole. That's dangerous. That 392 00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:13.040 really caught my ear. 393 00:24:13.280 --> 00:24:14.040 It's dangerous. 394 00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:17.440 Oh that's a loaded sentence. I want to talk a 395 00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:20.159 little more about that because we've been talking about, you know, 396 00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:21.600 how to get you off like in parole. 397 00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:26.480 And see what I mean, I keep telling you I'm institutionalized, right, 398 00:24:26.560 --> 00:24:28.560 And what I mean my institutional lives. 399 00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:32.960 I do things and patterns a b C. 400 00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:36.200 I can't do things with A and then see, because 401 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:37.199