WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:04.320 Dear listener, this story is going to be a challenge. 2 00:00:04.519 --> 00:00:07.280 There is going to be talk of rape, sexual abuse, 3 00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:11.520 and domestic violence, and also the circumstances surrounding the death 4 00:00:11.600 --> 00:00:14.480 of a child. So take that into consideration. 5 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:15.360 Thanks. 6 00:00:19.440 --> 00:00:24.560 The State of Texas wants to kill me every day 7 00:00:24.600 --> 00:00:26.759 I ask DoD. 8 00:00:26.680 --> 00:00:38.080 Why From Fudro Media and pr X, it's let you 9 00:00:38.120 --> 00:00:41.159 know us say I'm Maria Josa. Today the State of 10 00:00:41.240 --> 00:00:45.360 Texas versus Melissa Lucio, the first Latina to be put 11 00:00:45.440 --> 00:00:48.880 on death row in Texas, and the effort to stop 12 00:00:48.920 --> 00:01:01.040 her scheduled execution next month. It's early February. A group 13 00:01:01.120 --> 00:01:05.360 of protesters is standing on the sidewalk outside the Cameron 14 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:10.840 County Courthouse in Brownsville in South Texas. Back in two 15 00:01:10.880 --> 00:01:15.520 thousand and eight, Melissa Elizabeth Lucio was brought here and 16 00:01:15.600 --> 00:01:20.280 what happened inside this building forever changed the lives of 17 00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:21.679 the Lucio family. 18 00:01:22.240 --> 00:01:24.400 Right from Melissa the execution. 19 00:01:25.160 --> 00:01:27.560 Listen to the community, Listen to the people. 20 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:31.440 The people gathered here today are holding black signs with 21 00:01:31.560 --> 00:01:38.440 white lettering. They read free Melissa Lucier. They're also carrying 22 00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:42.480 a banner with a huge photo of Melissa on it. 23 00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:48.000 She's in an off white prison uniform. Melissa looks tired. 24 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:52.600 The wrinkles on her face are distinct. Her dark brown 25 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:56.040 hair is slicked back into a ponytail. Her brown eyes 26 00:01:56.080 --> 00:02:00.400 are staring straight ahead. Woman. 27 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:03.280 She's not guilty of the death of my baby sister, 28 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:05.120 Mariah Elizabeth alib This is no, she is not. 29 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:10.480 That's John Vincent Lucio, live streaming the protest on his phone. 30 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:17.440 He's the eldest son of Melissa's fourteen children. Melissa, who 31 00:02:17.440 --> 00:02:20.960 today is fifty three years old, is scheduled to die 32 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:23.520 because of the death of her two year old daughter, 33 00:02:23.880 --> 00:02:30.840 Mariah Alvarez, fifteen years ago. On the evening of February seventeenth, 34 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:34.760 two thousand and seven, paramedics were called to Melissa's home 35 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:39.120 because her baby girl was unresponsive. Later, Mariah would be 36 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:43.160 pronounced dead at the hospital. Her body was found covered 37 00:02:43.200 --> 00:02:43.920 in bruises. 38 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:47.640 My mother is innocent. 39 00:02:47.880 --> 00:02:51.440 I wouldn't be traveling over eight hundred miles Friday, Saturday, 40 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:54.200 Sunday to go to visit my mother, which takes me 41 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:56.480 about eight hours to get there, just to see her 42 00:02:56.480 --> 00:02:57.960 for two hours. I would not be doing that for 43 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:01.000 her today. If she wasn't in she is an n 44 00:03:01.040 --> 00:03:01.800 SA woman. 45 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:05.840 As if in mourning. John is dressed in all black. 46 00:03:06.480 --> 00:03:10.600 His shirt is another sign on the front. It says 47 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:16.119 free Melissa Lucio. He has a shaved head and tattoos 48 00:03:16.320 --> 00:03:19.120 that run along both of his arms. He's thirty two 49 00:03:19.200 --> 00:03:21.799 years old and his mom has been on death row 50 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:26.280 for almost half of his life. Now he's worried he 51 00:03:26.360 --> 00:03:31.760 might lose her forever. On April twenty seven, Melissa Lucio 52 00:03:31.880 --> 00:03:34.920 could become the first Latina to be executed by the 53 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:39.160 state of Texas in one hundred and sixty years. John 54 00:03:39.600 --> 00:03:43.200 and others are out here today trying to raise awareness 55 00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:47.480 about Melissa's story. Their ultimate goal is to save her 56 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:49.560 life before they run out of time. 57 00:03:50.640 --> 00:03:53.480 I will be here to fight for her life till 58 00:03:53.480 --> 00:03:58.279 the end. 59 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:01.720 John and so many others to this case still have 60 00:04:01.920 --> 00:04:06.680 questions about Melissa's trial. In theory, the court system should 61 00:04:06.760 --> 00:04:10.760 only punish people who have had a fair trial and 62 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:16.080 when there's no reasonable doubt of guilt. For Melissa's supporters, 63 00:04:16.400 --> 00:04:18.400 that is not her case. 64 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:20.840 I mean, I'm gonna be honest. I would not sure 65 00:04:20.960 --> 00:04:23.520 quote anything my mother. Yes she was the drug abuser, 66 00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:26.040 Yes she was neglectful towards us, but never was she 67 00:04:26.080 --> 00:04:26.960 abusive towards us. 68 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:29.440 She loved us dearly, she never did hurt us. 69 00:04:30.320 --> 00:04:33.800 In fact, in twenty nineteen, the Fifth Circuit Court of 70 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:38.839 Appeals also showed skepticism about the fairness of Melissa's case 71 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:42.560 and opened the door to the possibility of a new trial. 72 00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:47.640 Shortly after, though, the court backtrack on its own decision, 73 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:54.279 placing Melissa even closer to being executed. Latino USA producer 74 00:04:54.520 --> 00:04:57.080 Renaldo Leanoz Junior is going to pick up the rest 75 00:04:57.160 --> 00:04:58.640 of this story from here. 76 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.640 It's around lunchtime, and the protest outside of the Cameron 77 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:08.640 County Courthouse that John is at has been going on 78 00:05:08.760 --> 00:05:12.560 now for about half an hour. Suddenly, a man in 79 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:15.960 a business suit walks out of the concrete building. 80 00:05:18.440 --> 00:05:20.560 A day. 81 00:05:24.640 --> 00:05:28.480 Peter Gilman was Melissa Lucio's first defense attorney back in 82 00:05:28.520 --> 00:05:32.000 two thousand and seven, and John is still pretty upset 83 00:05:32.080 --> 00:05:37.440 with the way he handled his mom's case. The year 84 00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:41.960 after Melissa's conviction, Gilman joined the DA's office, the same 85 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:47.919 office that has been fighting to keep Melissa on death row. Today, 86 00:05:48.400 --> 00:05:55.760 Gilman is an assistant District attorney in Cameron County John 87 00:05:55.880 --> 00:05:58.280 follows him down the block a few steps, but the 88 00:05:58.360 --> 00:06:00.000 lawyer just ignores him. 89 00:06:00.200 --> 00:06:02.159 What you, buddy? 90 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:02.280 What? 91 00:06:03.640 --> 00:06:07.680 A little later, another familiar person steps out of the courthouse. 92 00:06:08.440 --> 00:06:12.520 This time it's Louise V. Science, the current district attorney 93 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:15.599 for the county. He also played a key role in 94 00:06:15.640 --> 00:06:19.479 Melissa's trial. He was a judge who arranged her and 95 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:21.640 said a two million dollar bond for her. 96 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:24.680 You were her judge, Louise sides knew who this woman is. 97 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:26.240 You know the corruption that took place. 98 00:06:26.960 --> 00:06:31.800 Like Gilman, Science also ignores John. This is the first 99 00:06:31.880 --> 00:06:34.960 time John has seen these men in person in almost 100 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:39.760 fifteen years. Back then, John was just a teenager. Today 101 00:06:40.080 --> 00:06:42.560 he's a husband and works as a barber in the 102 00:06:42.640 --> 00:06:46.479 Rio Grande Valley. 103 00:06:47.320 --> 00:06:48.400 It's it's sad. 104 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:52.039 It's sad because, I mean, they they're not trying to 105 00:06:52.080 --> 00:06:54.120 help an innocent woman on dance Row. 106 00:06:55.440 --> 00:06:57.919 There are a lot of twists and turns in Melissa 107 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:01.080 Lucio's story, and we're going to get into most of 108 00:07:01.080 --> 00:07:05.880 them today, including a political corruption scandal. But let's start 109 00:07:05.880 --> 00:07:09.560 with the documentary that premiered in twenty twenty. The film. 110 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:12.360 Protesters kept chanting about WhatsUp? 111 00:07:13.400 --> 00:07:13.800 Whatched? 112 00:07:13.960 --> 00:07:14.200 Up. 113 00:07:14.280 --> 00:07:18.240 It's called The State of Texas Versus Melissa, and it's 114 00:07:18.280 --> 00:07:20.720 a deep dive investigation into her case. 115 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:26.960 I've lost twelve years without my children. Some of them 116 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:31.520 have memories of me and some of them don't. It's 117 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:36.120 been very hard to wake up, bitch morning and not 118 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:39.480 not hear them. 119 00:07:39.840 --> 00:07:42.520 What you just heard is one of Melissa's interviews from 120 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:47.880 that documentary. Sabrina van Tassel, a French American journalist and filmmaker, 121 00:07:48.280 --> 00:07:48.880 directed it. 122 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:52.920 I really did not know much about her case, apart 123 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:56.400 from the fact that you know, she was there because 124 00:07:56.440 --> 00:08:01.640 she supposedly had killed her daughter. It was supposedly a 125 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:06.760 horrific child abuse case, and that was pretty much it. 126 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:11.280 Sabrina tried to find out more so in twenty seventeen, 127 00:08:11.400 --> 00:08:15.000 she got in contact with Melissa's family and she has 128 00:08:15.080 --> 00:08:16.880 kept in touch with them ever since. 129 00:08:17.400 --> 00:08:22.000 Immediately when I met her sister, she said to me, 130 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:24.680 it was an accident, you know, and Melissa she was 131 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:27.040 never violent to it, you know, with any of her children. 132 00:08:27.760 --> 00:08:31.000 Backing Melissa's sister, it's the fact that Melissa had no 133 00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:34.920 documented history of being violent, not towards her kids or 134 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:39.080 towards anyone, but life wasn't perfect for Melissa and her 135 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:45.360 children either. In two thousand and four, Child Protective Services 136 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:49.960 or CPS, took her kids away following reports of parental neglect. 137 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:54.160 Melissa was using drugs, and for a while they were homeless. 138 00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:58.640 Two years later, though, after securing an apartment going to 139 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:03.560 substance abuse counseling and parenting courses, Melissa was reunited with 140 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:10.120 nine of her underage children, including Mariah, the youngest. After 141 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:14.040 meeting with Melissa's family, Sabrina went to see Melissa herself 142 00:09:14.520 --> 00:09:15.280 on death row. 143 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:21.000 I met Melissa the next day, and everything in me, 144 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:24.000 like every single cell in my body was telling me, 145 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:28.520 this just cannot be. I don't believe it. You know, 146 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:30.680 there's just much more to this story. 147 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:34.520 Sabrina began digging deeper. 148 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:41.080 I mean I basically read everything. I read every court record, 149 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:45.079 just all the CPS files, the trials, everything, everything, all 150 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:50.400 the appeals, and discovered that not only is there no 151 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:54.920 not one single witness in this case, she just got 152 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:59.119 sentenced to death solely because of her chorused confession. 153 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:03.559 Today's date is too eighteen, two thousand and seven. It 154 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:07.040 is three am. We are here at the Harlingo Police Department. 155 00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:12.400 I am here with Melissa Lucia. My name is Victor Escoone. 156 00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:15.520 That's a clip of the interrogation that Sabrina just referenced. 157 00:10:16.040 --> 00:10:19.520 The video, which she included in her documentary, was the 158 00:10:19.520 --> 00:10:22.520 core of the prosecution's case against Melissa. 159 00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:24.679 You know something is wrong. 160 00:10:25.160 --> 00:10:26.000 No I don't. 161 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:27.560 You know something is wrong? 162 00:10:27.800 --> 00:10:28.680 No, I don't. 163 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:31.040 If I bring you all those pictures, if I beat 164 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:33.680 you half to death like that little child was beat 165 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:35.400 I bet you die too. 166 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:37.280 So why didn't I beat my daughter? 167 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:37.560 Sir? 168 00:10:37.920 --> 00:10:39.560 No, not that cruel to my children? 169 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:41.200 One of those brutes on your little child. 170 00:10:42.160 --> 00:10:45.880 Melissa was taken into custody just hours after the death 171 00:10:45.920 --> 00:10:46.760 of Mariah. 172 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:52.560 The police take this extremely vulnerable woman and begin to 173 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:57.200 interrogate her the night that her toddler daughter died, and 174 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:01.600 they continue to interrogate her, use it techniques that are 175 00:11:01.640 --> 00:11:04.719 known to be coercive, that are known to be unreliable. 176 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:07.440 They gaslight her, they lie to her. 177 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:12.199 That's Federal public defender T Vone Chardle in twenty eighteen, 178 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:16.240 he was appointed to Melissa's case. In the video of 179 00:11:16.280 --> 00:11:20.840 her interrogation, you can see Melissa slouched over. She's quiet, 180 00:11:21.520 --> 00:11:25.840 just answering when questioned no attorneys present on her behalf. 181 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:28.560 This is your chance to set it's strict because right 182 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:30.480 now it looks like capital mortar. Right now, it looks 183 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:33.920 like you're a cold blood of killing. Now were you 184 00:11:33.920 --> 00:11:35.760 a cold blood of killer Elegana or were you a 185 00:11:35.760 --> 00:11:37.320 frustrated mother who just took. 186 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:37.640 It out on it. 187 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:41.760 Melissa told the officers that Mariah fell down the stairs 188 00:11:41.800 --> 00:11:45.439 two days prior, but they didn't believe her. They continued 189 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:47.760 to push her to admit that she had beaten Mariah 190 00:11:47.760 --> 00:11:51.440 to death. A little past one am, after three hours 191 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:54.600 of being pressed with no food, no sleep, and several 192 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:57.280 weeks pregnant, Melissa gave in. 193 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:00.599 Okay with Melissa, let's just get it. 194 00:12:02.640 --> 00:12:05.000 I'm responsible for it. 195 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:10.640 Okay, Melissa said, I'm responsible for it. The ranger then 196 00:12:11.040 --> 00:12:13.280 pushed her even further, and. 197 00:12:13.160 --> 00:12:21.680 This is just what spanking mm hm our calvary, what's 198 00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:22.000 up from? 199 00:12:22.520 --> 00:12:27.520 Just After going back and forth for more than an hour, 200 00:12:28.160 --> 00:12:31.240 Melissa accept she hit Maria in several of the places 201 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:35.199 where Maria's body had bruises, but she insists that she 202 00:12:35.400 --> 00:12:38.080 didn't kill her daughter, and what happened? 203 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:40.640 What was it? 204 00:12:41.800 --> 00:12:43.280 Just hand? 205 00:12:43.760 --> 00:12:45.960 No, I don't know how she died. 206 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:46.439 I don't know. 207 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:51.600 Listen, no I didn't. 208 00:12:51.800 --> 00:12:52.680 We're doing so good. 209 00:12:53.280 --> 00:12:55.199 No I didn't, so I would mar it to that? 210 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:57.280 What caused her to die? 211 00:12:57.520 --> 00:12:57.920 I don't know. 212 00:12:58.400 --> 00:13:00.239 Other than just getting. 213 00:13:01.640 --> 00:13:02.000 I don't know. 214 00:13:03.520 --> 00:13:07.840 The entire interrogation lasted more than five hours. A little 215 00:13:07.920 --> 00:13:11.800 after three am, the ranger asked Melissa one final. 216 00:13:11.640 --> 00:13:13.959 Question, through your heads. 217 00:13:15.640 --> 00:13:17.040 The shoes, maybe it better. 218 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:29.679 In the eyes of the prosecution, Melissa had confessed to 219 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:35.120 murder and they ran with that. On top of being 220 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:38.880 subject to a very forceful interrogation with no legal counsel 221 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:43.160 by her side. Ti Vone, her current lawyer, believes Melissa 222 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:47.560 took responsibility for Maria's bruises because she's been through a lot. 223 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:54.000 The state had to find some way to pin this 224 00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:58.760 child's death on somebody, and what they did was they 225 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:03.880 selected a vulnerable person, Melissa Lucio, who is a survivor 226 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:06.800 of childhood sexual abuse. 227 00:14:07.920 --> 00:14:09.840 She had two adult men in her life who were 228 00:14:09.920 --> 00:14:13.840 victimizing her regularly, starting at the age of six. 229 00:14:16.640 --> 00:14:20.120 That's Sandra Babcock, a professor at Cornell Law School in 230 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:23.760 New York. She specializes in cases of women facing the 231 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:27.560 death penalty around the world and has been advocating for Melissa. 232 00:14:28.400 --> 00:14:30.680 She's raped again at the age of nine by a 233 00:14:30.760 --> 00:14:34.360 stranger in her apartment building, and then after she marries 234 00:14:34.400 --> 00:14:38.840 at age sixteen, she enters into a violent and abusive 235 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:42.800 partnership with a man who ultimately threatens to kill her. 236 00:14:43.800 --> 00:14:47.680 Her second partner, who, by the way, was only given 237 00:14:47.680 --> 00:14:51.360 a four year sentence compared to Melissa's death sentence. He 238 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:56.720 is somebody who beat her regularly. He controlled her movements, 239 00:14:57.160 --> 00:15:01.040 He raped her repeatedly. He would pin her against the wall. 240 00:15:01.640 --> 00:15:05.240 The children had to intervene to stop the violence. This 241 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:09.920 is the kind of repeated violence that causes a person 242 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:13.440 to suffer from post traumatic stress disorder, and that's why 243 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:17.960 Melissa herself became mentally ill and developed these symptoms of 244 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:21.160 numbing and dissociation that helped her to cope. 245 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:26.080 The police interpreted Melissa's behavior as that of a cold 246 00:15:26.160 --> 00:15:33.480 blooded murderer. For Sandra Tivonne and others, it was PTSD. Likewise, 247 00:15:33.800 --> 00:15:37.720 an independent social worker who reviewed Melissa's history of abuse 248 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:42.280 and the taped interrogation on behalf of the defense, identified 249 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:45.960 a pattern of behavior in Melissa which made her more 250 00:15:46.160 --> 00:15:51.040 likely to cave into male figures of authority. Melissa was 251 00:15:51.160 --> 00:15:55.840 charged with quote intentionally and knowingly causing Mariah's death by 252 00:15:56.040 --> 00:16:01.840 anti quote again, striking, shaking, or throwing her. Before facing trial, 253 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:04.880 she was offered a thirty year prison sentence if she 254 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:09.200 pleaded guilty, but Melissa turned it down, insisting that she 255 00:16:09.400 --> 00:16:13.200 didn't kill her daughter. When the trial began a year later, 256 00:16:13.800 --> 00:16:17.840 not only was the recorded interrogation of Melissa presented as evidence. 257 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:24.040 To Voone says, this ranger who questioned Melissa was then 258 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:29.120 allowed to testify for the prosecution that he could tell 259 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:33.360 by her demeanor, by the way her shoulders were slumped, 260 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:37.800 by the way her head was bowed, by the expression 261 00:16:37.880 --> 00:16:43.040 on her face, that she was lying when she claimed 262 00:16:43.160 --> 00:16:48.160 that she hadn't beaten Mariah. The ranger was not a 263 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:53.320 trained psychologist. Melissa's defense tried to present the testimony of 264 00:16:53.640 --> 00:16:56.800 the independent social worker, who had over twenty years in 265 00:16:56.880 --> 00:17:01.160 clinical training and experience in human behavior, to explain why 266 00:17:01.280 --> 00:17:04.960 Melissa would have taken responsibility for something that she didn't do, 267 00:17:06.040 --> 00:17:08.840 But Tavone says the judge ruled that the social worker 268 00:17:09.080 --> 00:17:14.440 was quote not qualified to testify. Then, he says, Melissa's 269 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:17.800 defense try to present the expert opinion of an independent 270 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:20.800 psychologist who also reviewed the video. 271 00:17:21.080 --> 00:17:23.320 And he actually comes to the same conclusion that she 272 00:17:23.560 --> 00:17:27.720 is a battered woman, a survivor of traumatic abuse, and 273 00:17:27.840 --> 00:17:32.560 that what you're seeing on this video is a woman 274 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:36.159 who is dissociating, a woman who has post traumatic stress 275 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:41.840 disorder and is really just trying to survive this interrogation 276 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:45.440 and is not, in fact trying to hide anything, or 277 00:17:45.520 --> 00:17:49.080 isn't necessarily trying to hide anything. At that point, the 278 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:52.120 judge says all of this evidence is irrelevant. 279 00:17:53.040 --> 00:17:55.960 On July eighth of two thousand and eight, after a 280 00:17:56.119 --> 00:18:00.200 trial that lasted one week, Melissa was found guilty of 281 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:04.920 capital murder. Two days later, she was sentenced to death. 282 00:18:05.760 --> 00:18:08.840 What's extraordinary about this case is how gendered it is, 283 00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:13.760 how stereotypes related to her gender and ethnicity were used 284 00:18:13.840 --> 00:18:14.439 against her. 285 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:21.280 The prosecution dismissed the evidence of Melissa's abuse, They essentially 286 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:24.200 encouraged the jury to think that she was making it 287 00:18:24.320 --> 00:18:29.520 all up, and they belittled her for her experiences of 288 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:33.280 sexual abuse and domestic violence, and said in the closing 289 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:37.480 argument that her failure to cry was indication that she 290 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:41.080 was cold hearted and that she didn't have any remorse 291 00:18:44.080 --> 00:18:46.879 and if you think about it and you ask yourself 292 00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:49.760 this question, would a prosecutor ever say that a man 293 00:18:49.840 --> 00:18:55.680 who didn't cry was cold hearted? And the answer is no, 294 00:18:55.840 --> 00:18:58.920 because this is something that you only ask of women, 295 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:02.000 because the ones who are the ones who are expected 296 00:19:02.080 --> 00:19:03.720 to cry. Men aren't expected to cry. 297 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:14.359 Coming up on Latino USA, we continue to examine Melissa's 298 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:18.240 trial and later we'll hear from Melissa's family and how 299 00:19:18.280 --> 00:19:23.360 this case has devastated their lives. Stay with us, Yes, 300 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:19.920 we're back, and just a reminder there might be some 301 00:20:20.080 --> 00:20:23.840 triggering stuff coming up. You heard about the case of 302 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:27.639 Melissa Lucio, a woman who was sentenced to death in 303 00:20:27.760 --> 00:20:30.400 two thousand and eight after her two year old daughter, 304 00:20:30.520 --> 00:20:35.480 Mariah died. John Lucio, Melissa's son, and others are doing 305 00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:40.800 everything they can to stop Melissa's execution. Now we're going 306 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:44.000 to dive deeper into some of the things that Melissa's 307 00:20:44.080 --> 00:20:47.800 defense says went wrong with her case, and we're going 308 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.760 to hear from Melissa's family. Latino USA producer Reynando Leanos 309 00:20:51.800 --> 00:20:53.920 Junior picks up the story from here. 310 00:20:56.800 --> 00:20:59.880 It's mid February and I'm speaking with Sabrina Van tas 311 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:05.919 the director of the documentary about Melissa Lucio. We're at 312 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:10.119 Melissa's mom's home in Harlingen, Texas. Sabrina is here with 313 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:14.440 members of the Lucio family coordinating a statewide media tour 314 00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:19.920 to try to get Melissa's execution date withdrawn. The day before, 315 00:21:20.520 --> 00:21:24.080 Sabrina met with Melissa at the Mountain View prison unit 316 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:27.520 in Gainesville, which is about an eight hour drive north 317 00:21:27.560 --> 00:21:27.920 from here. 318 00:21:28.840 --> 00:21:33.200 It was really more joyful than I thought it would be, 319 00:21:33.760 --> 00:21:36.399 just because we were happy to be together, and we 320 00:21:36.520 --> 00:21:39.320 kind of detached ourselves about where we were, you know, 321 00:21:39.600 --> 00:21:42.640 just being separated by that huge glass, and we talked 322 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:46.080 also about very intimate things I asked her, for example, 323 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:48.119 you know, who was the love of your life. She 324 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:50.680 asked me things about myself too, so it was it 325 00:21:50.800 --> 00:21:51.360 was interesting. 326 00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:56.959 Sabrina spent four hours with Melissa. They spoke via a handset, 327 00:21:57.520 --> 00:21:59.920 separated from one another by a glass wall. 328 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:03.040 She wants to fight till the end. She wants to 329 00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:05.600 fight for justice, she wants to fight for her children, 330 00:22:06.280 --> 00:22:09.320 and also, you know from Mariah, she wants her life 331 00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:13.440 and her fight to help others because she realizes that 332 00:22:13.840 --> 00:22:17.040 it's all political and that you do not end up 333 00:22:17.080 --> 00:22:21.320 on death her ownness. You're poor or a person of color, 334 00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:24.440 and you've been in a way misrepresented. 335 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:27.920 When she left the prison, some of the same questions 336 00:22:28.040 --> 00:22:31.720 she had when she first met Melissa still loomed over 337 00:22:31.840 --> 00:22:32.240 her head. 338 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:36.760 How could you set an execution date when there are 339 00:22:36.840 --> 00:22:39.280 so many question marks all over a case. 340 00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:47.200 Yeah, that's her right there as Mariah. And that's actually 341 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:49.920 whenever she was in the in the Foster home and 342 00:22:50.080 --> 00:22:50.800 it was her birthday. 343 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:54.720 This is John Lucio, Melissa's son, who we heard from 344 00:22:54.760 --> 00:22:58.040 at the beginning of the episode. I visited him in 345 00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:01.680 his home in Harlingen in early March. He showed me 346 00:23:01.760 --> 00:23:04.280 a few family photos he had hanging on the wall. 347 00:23:05.040 --> 00:23:07.760 So she was happy. She was very happy. 348 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:10.920 And the photograph we're looking at you can see a 349 00:23:11.040 --> 00:23:15.120 chubby toddler. She's sitting on a large, dark brown leather chair, 350 00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:17.359 and in front of her there's a big pink and 351 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:22.360 yellow cake that says happy birthday, Mariah. John gets emotional 352 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:25.280 talking about this. He says he was clothes with his 353 00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:27.560 baby sister Mariah. 354 00:23:27.760 --> 00:23:29.840 We just locked in, like we got so attached, and 355 00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:33.080 she loved me, she really did. She would come to me, 356 00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:36.119 and she get excited when she would see me. 357 00:23:37.800 --> 00:23:40.880 When we spoke, John had also just recently come back 358 00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:43.560 from visiting his mom. He had gone with two of 359 00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:44.359 his siblings. 360 00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:48.440 My mother hadn't seen her children three at the same 361 00:23:48.520 --> 00:23:51.280 time in a long time, so, I mean, last time 362 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:53.080 she probably had that was back in two thousand and 363 00:23:53.080 --> 00:23:55.440 eight when she was still here in Cameron County. So 364 00:23:55.600 --> 00:23:57.639 it was very amazing. It was beautiful. She loved it. 365 00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:00.000 I mean it was We had a bunch of laughters, 366 00:24:00.040 --> 00:24:03.520 a bunch of joking around, and it was just it 367 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:06.720 was just so amazing. I'll do whatever I can to 368 00:24:07.040 --> 00:24:08.680 see a smile on my mother's face. 369 00:24:09.840 --> 00:24:12.720 As we heard earlier from John, he acknowledges that his 370 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:17.159 mom was not perfect. She was drugs and she was neglectful. 371 00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:20.440 They were also very poor and sometimes they didn't even 372 00:24:20.520 --> 00:24:24.760 have water. But there was also the other side of Melissa. 373 00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:31.960 Her cooking was amazing. She cooked breakfast, lunch, and didn't 374 00:24:32.040 --> 00:24:33.840 especially on the weekends like when we're not at school, 375 00:24:34.040 --> 00:24:36.280 and she made full course mills. I'm talking about homemade 376 00:24:36.320 --> 00:24:41.120 her tears. My mother was a woman too. After breakfast, clean, 377 00:24:41.280 --> 00:24:44.040 after lunch, clean, after dinner, clean, So I mean, even 378 00:24:44.080 --> 00:24:46.159 though we come from a family of poverty, and we 379 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:49.080 were like the lowest of the lowest. When I mean 380 00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:51.080 you're coming into our house or where we lived at 381 00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:54.000 in the projects or whatever we lived at, you smelled 382 00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:57.320 the scent of a clean house. She was a wonderful mother. 383 00:24:57.400 --> 00:24:59.520 She was a loving mother, She was a carried mother. 384 00:25:00.600 --> 00:25:02.639 I mean, she did whatever she had to do for us. 385 00:25:07.800 --> 00:25:11.520 John was just seventeen when his baby sister died, but 386 00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:15.640 even then he had some questions about his mother's legal defense. 387 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:20.800 Why didn't they use us, especially my younger siblings. That's 388 00:25:20.840 --> 00:25:21.760 seeing what happened. 389 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:24.840 He's referencing the fact that back in two thousand and eight, 390 00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:28.160 two of his younger siblings said to a CPS social 391 00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:32.359 worker that they saw Mariah falling down the stairs, just 392 00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:36.399 as Melissa had told the officers who interrogated her. This 393 00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:37.600 was captured in video. 394 00:25:38.520 --> 00:25:41.159 I saw some pictures of her, and she had a 395 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:45.800 lot of scranches on her face, and she had bruises everywhere. 396 00:25:46.040 --> 00:25:48.200 So I wanted to know if you knew about those, 397 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:52.600 how she got those, how much she got Did you 398 00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:53.320 ever see them? 399 00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:53.560 Though? 400 00:25:54.320 --> 00:25:56.800 Well? I saw one booth, was she fled up steps? 401 00:25:57.240 --> 00:25:58.800