WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:05.720 To progress, you always need dissident people. You always need 2 00:00:05.960 --> 00:00:10.000 something to disrupt and question the status quo. That is 3 00:00:10.039 --> 00:00:15.080 the law for evolution. If everything remains the same, nothing changes, 4 00:00:15.520 --> 00:00:19.720 nothing is challenge. You don't have life. That's just death. 5 00:00:20.360 --> 00:00:24.600 I'm sure if we didn't have this authoritarian system, even 6 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:27.680 if we had a democratic one, I will still be 7 00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:28.880 a dissident. 8 00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:37.280 From futuro media and PRX. It's Latino USA. I'm Mariano Rosa. 9 00:00:37.720 --> 00:00:42.960 Cubans of all generations are protesting against decades of a 10 00:00:43.120 --> 00:00:47.680 one party government. Today a conversation with a young dissident 11 00:00:47.880 --> 00:00:51.320 who's been under house arrest for over one hundred days. 12 00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:58.520 On the eleventh of July, protest videos started to spread 13 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:08.760 like wildfire across Cuba. On that day, Cuba saw thousands 14 00:01:08.800 --> 00:01:12.319 of citizens taking to the streets across the country in 15 00:01:12.440 --> 00:01:16.880 villages and cities, massive demonstrations that haven't been seen since 16 00:01:16.880 --> 00:01:21.200 the early nineteen nineties. At the forefront were young Cubans 17 00:01:21.240 --> 00:01:24.240 demanding freedom from a government that has ruled for over 18 00:01:24.360 --> 00:01:35.280 sixty years. Cubans were also protesting food shortages, power cuts, 19 00:01:35.319 --> 00:01:39.600 and rising prices amid the coronavirus pandemic. At least one 20 00:01:39.640 --> 00:01:43.959 person died during the protests, and hundreds of Cubans were 21 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:49.200 detained on charges like instigating unrest, vandalism, and propagating COVID nineteen. 22 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:53.760 Some people underwent summary trials without access to a defense 23 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:58.720 lawyer that'supporting to international human rights organizations. The Cuban government 24 00:01:58.800 --> 00:02:02.800 says detainees were processed under the law. It also blamed 25 00:02:02.800 --> 00:02:06.600 hardships on US sanctions and claimed Washington and its quote 26 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:11.200 unquote allies were using social media to organize and purposely 27 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:16.160 create disruption on the island. The lamas in Crementola company 28 00:02:16.880 --> 00:02:21.760 social In the three months that have followed the unrest, 29 00:02:22.160 --> 00:02:25.360 the international media attention has faded away from the island 30 00:02:25.720 --> 00:02:29.400 and the government has launched some economic measures to handle 31 00:02:29.440 --> 00:02:33.760 the crisis, but it also issued a decree to titan 32 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:38.560 control specifically on social media. Meanwhile, as of the end 33 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:43.200 of September, more than five hundred Cubans remained detained, according 34 00:02:43.200 --> 00:02:53.600 to the local and geo Gualexquo. 35 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:55.960 Patria Helante sandolaes. 36 00:02:54.480 --> 00:02:58.440 Carolina Barrero is a thirty four year old art historian, 37 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:02.920 and she's been out protesting over this past year. She's 38 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:06.360 also been detained several times while she's been out protesting. 39 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:10.639 She's been charged with defying the authorities in citing crime 40 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:17.600 and printing clandestine flyers, and Carolina denies having committed any crimes. 41 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:21.840 Carolina spoke with us from her apartment in Levana, Vieha, 42 00:03:22.160 --> 00:03:25.359 where she has spent more than one hundred days under 43 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:29.680 house arrest. She doesn't have internet access, so just to 44 00:03:29.720 --> 00:03:34.600 do this interview, she had to borrow a friend's cellular data. 45 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:41.760 Hello to everyone. Hi, I'm really sorry that I get disconnected. 46 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:44.160 It's just it was my data. 47 00:03:44.760 --> 00:03:46.360 It's great to have you and let you know USA, 48 00:03:46.480 --> 00:03:49.040 thank you for making the effort. We really appreciate it. 49 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:50.720 Thanks for joining me from Lavana. 50 00:03:50.880 --> 00:03:53.280 Thank you Maria. It's very nice to meet you and 51 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:54.360 b and the program. 52 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:56.920 So I'm wondering if you could just describe for me 53 00:03:57.560 --> 00:03:59.880 where you are right now, I mean the. 54 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:04.240 Old part of town. I am in house arrest. I've 55 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:07.560 been like this for more than one hundred days this year. 56 00:04:08.320 --> 00:04:11.280 First it was between the end of March and May, 57 00:04:11.480 --> 00:04:17.239 and now since the twenty third of June. I'm living 58 00:04:17.240 --> 00:04:22.039 in a house in the third floor. Outside. It's very vibrant, 59 00:04:22.080 --> 00:04:25.159 it's the most it's a part of town. You can 60 00:04:25.200 --> 00:04:29.120 hear even the sounds of people on the streets selling 61 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:35.240 avocados or just the music all around the place now 62 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:41.560 is less crowded because of the coronavirus crisis. For me, actually, 63 00:04:42.320 --> 00:04:46.520 it contrasts with the silence of my house. Of course, 64 00:04:46.520 --> 00:04:48.919 I'm in house arrest. Very few people can come and 65 00:04:48.960 --> 00:04:50.520 see me, and I cannot get out. 66 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:55.600 I'm kind of struck, Carolina with what that must be like. 67 00:04:55.720 --> 00:04:57.400 I mean, do you have a window that you can 68 00:04:57.440 --> 00:05:00.080 look outside and open your window and see everybody? 69 00:05:00.760 --> 00:05:04.320 Absolutely? I can head out at least to the balcony, 70 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:08.640 and I can say even high and waive the police 71 00:05:08.920 --> 00:05:13.359 enforcement and the state security agents down the stairs. You 72 00:05:13.440 --> 00:05:16.760 wave it them, of course, and I bring them coffee. 73 00:05:17.400 --> 00:05:21.000 Sometimes they accepted it. Sometimes they say no because that 74 00:05:21.080 --> 00:05:25.880 comes from your mercenary or some kind of absurd comment 75 00:05:26.080 --> 00:05:28.760 like that. And sometimes they just drink it with me 76 00:05:29.400 --> 00:05:30.360 and we have a chat. 77 00:05:30.960 --> 00:05:34.880 How are you eating and also how are you managing 78 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:35.919 this psychologically? 79 00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:41.520 Well? I receive some food that my father sends to me. 80 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:46.200 They allow that at least one friend is also allowed 81 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:49.919 to come inside for the rest. They need to check 82 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:54.400 their ID first, and most of them they cannot come in. 83 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:58.320 It's actually a kind of prison, but you are just in, 84 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:03.040 you know, at home. Psychologically, I and all of us 85 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:08.040 we understand the consequences of you know, having a critical position, 86 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:10.640 of being a dissident, like they say. 87 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:16.680 Early in July, actually July eleventh, you know, we started 88 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:20.400 seeing these images of people taking out to the streets 89 00:06:21.200 --> 00:06:26.840 and chanting Libertad and having confrontations with security forces and 90 00:06:26.880 --> 00:06:29.920 the police, who sometimes were overwhelmed by the amount of 91 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:32.200 people who were out there. And I'm wondering if you 92 00:06:32.200 --> 00:06:34.880 can tell us, like, where were you on July eleventh, 93 00:06:34.960 --> 00:06:38.080 and how did you feel about what you were seeing? 94 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:43.080 When we went to sleep on July tenth, no one 95 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:47.800 could imagine what would happen next day. It was quiet 96 00:06:47.880 --> 00:06:52.200 Sunday morning. I remember I was taking my first coffee 97 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:55.919 and checking the news. It was around ten thirty or 98 00:06:55.920 --> 00:07:00.680 something like that when I find a live video Facebook 99 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:04.799 with protesters in San Antonio de los Banos, a small 100 00:07:04.880 --> 00:07:09.080 town outside Lavana that is best known because of the 101 00:07:09.200 --> 00:07:14.800 International Cinema School. I was thrilled to see it. Very 102 00:07:14.840 --> 00:07:18.840 soon the group of roughly twenty people became a hundred, 103 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:23.120 and soon after that the whole town was on the streets, 104 00:07:23.440 --> 00:07:27.119 they were walking, and as they walked, more and more 105 00:07:27.200 --> 00:07:33.040 people joined. But what really strike me was that after that, 106 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:38.040 town after town, all across the island, Cubans went out 107 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:41.640 of protest to manifest their aim for freedom. When you 108 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:45.400 see the videos of that day, you can hear very 109 00:07:45.440 --> 00:07:49.680 clearly that what they repeated the most where we are 110 00:07:49.760 --> 00:07:54.720 not afraid anymore, we want freedom, we want them out. 111 00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:59.560 The government responded with brutality. It is very sad to 112 00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:04.200 see in the videos the special forces a vispas Negras. 113 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:08.880 They were sent to bid entertain everyone, just to stop demonstrations. 114 00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:10.920 And okay, so wait one second. 115 00:08:10.960 --> 00:08:14.520 So you just said a vispas Negras and people are like, okay, 116 00:08:14.520 --> 00:08:19.640 what is that. So the translation is black wasps. These 117 00:08:19.640 --> 00:08:21.760 are security agents that are dressed all in black and 118 00:08:21.760 --> 00:08:25.360 they kind of swoop in and clear out the situation 119 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:26.320 and take people away. 120 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:30.960 Yeah, it's special forces exactly, and they use violence to 121 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:37.120 stop all demonstrations and thousands were detained, including minors. Many 122 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:43.520 of these people were prosecuted and condemned collectively in summary trials, 123 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:48.720 with no right to a lawyer, and even without informing 124 00:08:48.800 --> 00:08:53.080 their families in time. Right now, more than ever. I 125 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:57.520 think Cuba has become a police state. Repression and vigilance 126 00:08:57.559 --> 00:09:02.320 has increased. Even most in social media can put you 127 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:07.959 in jail. The government, of course, fears another eleventh of July, 128 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:13.360 but as it did happen once without notice, we are 129 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:16.400 sure it will happen again. It's just a matter of time. 130 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:20.000 We all know it, and I think especially the state. 131 00:09:20.760 --> 00:09:23.560 I was talking to my producers and I said, you know, 132 00:09:23.640 --> 00:09:26.880 I've I've been traveling to Cuba since nineteen eighty two, 133 00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:34.760 so I have seen a lot of different moments in Cuba, 134 00:09:35.920 --> 00:09:43.240 but seeing that kind of fervor the lahinte diciendo questamos, Yeah, 135 00:09:43.400 --> 00:09:46.120 And for me on the outside, trying to understand what 136 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:53.360 is it that said Okaysalid, What exactly was it that 137 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:56.439 was making people take to the streets in these numbers 138 00:09:56.480 --> 00:09:56.880 in July. 139 00:09:57.640 --> 00:10:01.200 I think it was an accumulative thing. Right now, we 140 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:05.240 are under a huge sanitary crisis with a lot of 141 00:10:05.280 --> 00:10:09.160 shortage of food and medicine all over the country. People 142 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:13.240 is literally dying because they don't have access to basic 143 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:16.600 medicine or of food, and no good answers have been 144 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:21.560 given by the administration all of the country. One after 145 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:25.559 the other. All the measures have only wars and the situation. 146 00:10:25.800 --> 00:10:29.319 For instance, in the middle of the crisis, the government 147 00:10:29.400 --> 00:10:34.719 decided to reshape the financial structure and the currency, and 148 00:10:34.800 --> 00:10:36.640 that created huge inflation. 149 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:41.079 In July, everybody, of course, we're all. 150 00:10:40.920 --> 00:10:46.839 Agotalos, you know, with lapandemia, with asa taca, with coronavirus, 151 00:10:47.520 --> 00:10:53.400 and you're basically saying that intersected with this general increasing 152 00:10:53.880 --> 00:10:57.120 crackdown from the government, and that that's what pushed people 153 00:10:57.160 --> 00:11:01.240 to the streets. But a lot of this, it's really 154 00:11:01.280 --> 00:11:05.440 fascinating because a lot of the protests are happening and 155 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:09.640 are being propelled by artists and critics, and I'm wondering, 156 00:11:09.800 --> 00:11:12.640 you know, you're you're a curator, you're with artists, and 157 00:11:12.640 --> 00:11:14.880 I'm wondering if you can explain to the people who 158 00:11:14.920 --> 00:11:18.199 are listening to this what that actually looks like when 159 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:21.640 you have a protest movement that is led in many 160 00:11:21.640 --> 00:11:23.280 ways by artists. 161 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:29.040 Well, the eleventh of July was completely spontaneous. It is 162 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:32.440 true that from for the last three years artists have 163 00:11:32.640 --> 00:11:36.760 been in Laalanzada and at the front of all the 164 00:11:36.800 --> 00:11:41.520 protests made to the government. It began with the decree 165 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:46.839 three point forty nine, which limited freedom of expression, especially 166 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:51.520 among the artists. And from there the Science Cider movement 167 00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:56.880 was created and small protesters and people started to gather 168 00:11:57.040 --> 00:12:01.120 around to send letters, to try to story dialogue, to 169 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:05.440 try to change things more openly, and then we had 170 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:08.360 a twenty seven of November where for the first time, 171 00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:12.720 more than five hundred people gather on a public space 172 00:12:13.160 --> 00:12:15.040 in front of the Ministry of Culture. 173 00:12:15.640 --> 00:12:18.920 The expression of the arts in Cuba have also been 174 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:23.720 super political, just from the very beginning, So I think 175 00:12:23.760 --> 00:12:25.920 that's going to help people to understand that when you 176 00:12:25.960 --> 00:12:28.800 have this crackdown on the freedom of expression by the government. 177 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:32.840 So what people would understand here the first Amendment. Basically 178 00:12:32.880 --> 00:12:35.840 it's the artists who are saying, wait, you cannot control us. 179 00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:39.920 We have to be free to do whatever we want. 180 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:44.160 Because art in Cuba is I mean, it's always been 181 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:50.520 very experimental, very forward thinking, very progressive, always breaking a 182 00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:53.960 new ground, and the artists were saying, we can't accept this. 183 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:57.559 Does that kind of explain that why the artists were 184 00:12:57.600 --> 00:12:59.960 so essential in leading the movement. 185 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:03.640 Yes, And I think it's part of the history too 186 00:13:03.760 --> 00:13:08.640 of the nation. If you see the Independence War, the 187 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:14.000 War of eighteen ninety five that was organized and led 188 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:18.199 by Jusse Marti, a poet, and even in the First 189 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:23.640 War of eighteen sixty eight, Cespides was also a poet. 190 00:13:24.040 --> 00:13:27.320 It's part of our DNA. If you even think in 191 00:13:27.400 --> 00:13:30.840 the students protest in the thirties and you have figures 192 00:13:30.880 --> 00:13:34.760 like Ruben Martinez, de Vigenanesta Riego. 193 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:35.840 It's always been there. 194 00:13:35.920 --> 00:13:41.199 It's part of our identity, the relationship between art, poetry 195 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:48.079 and civil rights. 196 00:13:49.640 --> 00:13:53.280 Coming up on Latino USA, we talk about Carolina's upbringing 197 00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:57.160 in Cuba while her parents were in exile, and how 198 00:13:57.240 --> 00:13:59.640 after a decade abroad, she decided to return to the 199 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:03.079 island and in the middle of a global pandemic. Stay 200 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:53.960 with us, Hey, we're back. We continue our conversation now 201 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:57.880 with Carolina Barrero. She's a young art historian and dissident 202 00:14:57.880 --> 00:15:00.680 who's been under house arrest in a vac for more 203 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:05.120 than three months. So, Carolina, in terms of your personal life, 204 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:07.600 let's talk a little bit about this, because you actually 205 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:12.680 made a choice. You have citizenship from Spain as well 206 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:17.920 as Cuban citizenship. You lived outside of Cuba. You grew 207 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:21.040 up in Cuba, even though your mom and dad had 208 00:15:21.040 --> 00:15:24.360 to leave, so you didn't have them around. You talk 209 00:15:24.400 --> 00:15:27.120 about this separation as being a central part of your life. 210 00:15:28.160 --> 00:15:32.400 But after growing up in Cuba and then leaving for 211 00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:36.359 eight years and living in Spain, you make a decision 212 00:15:37.040 --> 00:15:42.120 at the end of twenty twenty to return, And I'm 213 00:15:42.200 --> 00:15:45.920 thinking that's kind of at the height of the pandemic, 214 00:15:46.680 --> 00:15:49.720 there was no sense of whether or not a vaccine 215 00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:53.960 would be available or even created. And You're like, I'm 216 00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:57.960 going to go live in Havana, Cuba and essentially be 217 00:15:58.160 --> 00:16:02.680 tied to the protest movement. And I'm wondering what was that, Like, 218 00:16:02.760 --> 00:16:05.160 what was that decision? Like what do your mom and 219 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:09.880 dad say? But I will I'm glad you returned, or 220 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:13.480 a niha, we're talking about your life. Hold on you 221 00:16:13.520 --> 00:16:15.280 can be you can help from Afar. 222 00:16:16.400 --> 00:16:19.880 I have been living for almost a decade abroad in Madrid, 223 00:16:20.560 --> 00:16:25.200 but I never stopped coming back. Every year, every two 224 00:16:25.280 --> 00:16:29.520 years I came back. I am very close to my 225 00:16:29.680 --> 00:16:33.520 roots here. I still I have the memory of my 226 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:38.280 family house, my grandparents. I was raised here by them, 227 00:16:38.800 --> 00:16:42.000 and I never wanted to just I couldn't just leave 228 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.960 and never never come back to that. So it's not 229 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:48.600 that I was completely away from it. But it is 230 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:53.040 true that in a sense this is something different than 231 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:57.280 just coming back for the holidays, right, And that is 232 00:16:57.400 --> 00:17:01.920 exactly that was kind of my intent, because there is 233 00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:05.920 a myth that when you go out from Cuba, if 234 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:08.879 you go, you go forever you are in exile, you 235 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:12.840 cannot return, and if you do well, it's just to 236 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:16.639 see your family, bring goods to them and go to 237 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:20.120 the beach and have a good time. Or if you stay, 238 00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:25.199 then you sort of stay. And that's also definitely and 239 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:28.479 I know this very well because when I was very small, 240 00:17:28.600 --> 00:17:32.640 my parents they went into exile, and I knew exactly 241 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:33.560 what that meant. 242 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:35.880 That meant they are very. 243 00:17:35.800 --> 00:17:39.000 Very far away and it will take some time until 244 00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:43.280 I see them again. And I think Cubans, and especially 245 00:17:43.280 --> 00:17:47.600 in my generation, we have this a task to end 246 00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:51.440 that myth and to naturalize you know, you can come 247 00:17:51.520 --> 00:17:54.639 and fly in and out of the island. Cubans in 248 00:17:54.760 --> 00:17:58.280 exile have the same rights to be part of public life, 249 00:17:58.560 --> 00:18:02.160 public debate, and not just from abroad. They can come 250 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:05.520 here and fly for it here between Cuban. 251 00:18:06.040 --> 00:18:08.520 I'm kind of struck by the fact that you talk 252 00:18:08.560 --> 00:18:12.720 about the exile that you experienced with your parents being exiled, 253 00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:15.760 and how that was such an essential part of your 254 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:19.800 life and how you experience that exile. 255 00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:20.360 But at the. 256 00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:25.679 Same time, you were being raised with the Cuban communist 257 00:18:25.800 --> 00:18:29.520 value system. Whether or not it's actually communist, we can 258 00:18:29.560 --> 00:18:30.719 have a conversation about that. 259 00:18:31.320 --> 00:18:32.280 Can you put that together? 260 00:18:32.280 --> 00:18:34.639 As a little girl, when you're like, when, oh, Mimmiami 261 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:38.040 pa Bay is done in exilio, but I'm going to 262 00:18:38.520 --> 00:18:40.199 Cuban school with me? 263 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:43.160 What is it that little banderita. 264 00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:45.960 Roja, Yes, our flag exactly, and you. 265 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:49.080 Wear it around your neck and you're a little bionetro 266 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:53.280 You're a little Cuban pioneer. Can you put those two 267 00:18:53.320 --> 00:18:56.159 things together, like having your parents in exile, but you 268 00:18:56.280 --> 00:19:01.719 also being raised essentially through the communist educational system. 269 00:19:02.280 --> 00:19:06.439 I want to first make a distinction because I think 270 00:19:06.600 --> 00:19:11.399 the Cuban government have long forgotten if they ever knew 271 00:19:12.080 --> 00:19:16.359 what communism or socialism even is. What we have here 272 00:19:16.600 --> 00:19:21.720 is an authoritarian regime that used the ideology of communism 273 00:19:21.760 --> 00:19:26.560 and socialism to create a narrative, a myth and stay empowered. 274 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:30.520 I was very fortunate, I think while I was growing up, 275 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:34.560 because I was fortunate to have my grandparents. They were 276 00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:37.520 from the east side of Cuba, from a town called 277 00:19:37.520 --> 00:19:42.240 Bajamo where the independence were started. And I grew up 278 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:47.119 with all these stories and all these values around Cuba independence, 279 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:51.720 Cuban freedom, and so that was part of my everyday life. 280 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:57.840 My grandfather also in nineteen fifty nine renounced to his 281 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:01.760 own family because all of his brothers and sisters left 282 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:06.160 to the immigrate to New York actually, and he decided 283 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:10.720 to stay. He lost some of his property and a 284 00:20:10.760 --> 00:20:13.920 small business he ran at the time, and he did 285 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:18.360 that with happiness because he believed in the ideas of 286 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:23.840 socialism and social justice. But very very soon he felt 287 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:28.480 trison by the government, of course, but he didn't actually 288 00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:31.719 inflate that feeling on me. I could see it in 289 00:20:31.800 --> 00:20:35.120 his eyes. He was sad, and he aim of course 290 00:20:35.600 --> 00:20:38.760 for real social justice and freedom. 291 00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:41.280 He stayed in a very quiet place. 292 00:20:41.320 --> 00:20:45.000 He was very critical, but he was not open, completely open. 293 00:20:45.320 --> 00:20:47.640 I think I am the first one to. 294 00:20:47.560 --> 00:20:51.080 Be seen actually like that and to be prosecuted and 295 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:54.639 to have this dissident title by the state. 296 00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:59.919 So you talk about the narrative of Cuba or the 297 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:05.520 myth of Cuba, the narrative that Cuba has around communism 298 00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:10.119 or socialism, whether or not it's actually being practiced is 299 00:21:10.600 --> 00:21:13.000 you know, set aside. But there is a myth and 300 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:16.879 externally and myself as a as a young student of 301 00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:21.280 Latin American studies, Cuba was in fact held up as 302 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:24.200 an example of back then we talked about. 303 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:27.440 Innuel the new man, the new woman. 304 00:21:27.520 --> 00:21:31.320 Who is going to be really focused on equality and justice. 305 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:36.360 Well that didn't necessarily turn out to be that way. 306 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:40.600 But I'm wondering how you respond because the outside world 307 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:43.680 still will look at Cuba and there will be many 308 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:48.680 people who consider themselves to be progressives or on the left, 309 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:51.960 and they will they'll in fact side with the Cuban 310 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:56.560 government and say that protesters like you are problematic. And 311 00:21:56.600 --> 00:22:00.399 I'm wondering it just gets confusing because what is and 312 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:03.639 what is right and what is all of these terms 313 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:05.960 begin to get very watered down. 314 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:11.119 Well, I would say to them, look with honesty to 315 00:22:11.600 --> 00:22:15.680 the videos and what happened on that day on July eleventh, 316 00:22:16.040 --> 00:22:22.359 and how the government responded to legitimate claims of its citizens. 317 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:29.359 So how did the government responded to these specific demonstrations, 318 00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:34.600 the way it used violence, even pistolas, even with weapons 319 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.720 because the person that was killed was killed because of 320 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:42.239 a gunshot. How can you use gunshots again? People that 321 00:22:42.280 --> 00:22:45.640 doesn't just have stones to say the most. 322 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:46.639 To say the most? 323 00:22:47.280 --> 00:22:51.840 So what kind of socialism can you defend? After that? 324 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:55.520 Are what are you talking about? It's very clear that 325 00:22:55.560 --> 00:22:59.760 that is not even close to what they say they defense. 326 00:23:00.040 --> 00:23:03.479 So I would say to them not, you know, not 327 00:23:03.600 --> 00:23:07.480 to stay with the myth because it can be very pretty, 328 00:23:07.840 --> 00:23:10.879 but reality is different, and if you really want to 329 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:13.880 be progressive and you want to be honest, you need 330 00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:19.480 to look inside reality with that you know, sincerity and 331 00:23:19.560 --> 00:23:20.640 to engage with it. 332 00:23:21.280 --> 00:23:24.800 How do the younger generations feel about the left and 333 00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:26.639 what is considered progressive. 334 00:23:27.280 --> 00:23:30.280 One of the things that strike me when I arrived 335 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:35.200 last December was to see exactly that in young students, 336 00:23:35.280 --> 00:23:40.480 people from university, we had a whole proliferation of different 337 00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:44.359 movements from the left being very critical. 338 00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:45.080 Towards the government. 339 00:23:45.320 --> 00:23:48.600 What I'm trying to say is five years ago, if 340 00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:53.120 you've been coming to Cuba, no one would imagine that 341 00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:57.680 the most critical positions to the government would come from 342 00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:01.440 the left or the so called left. You would project 343 00:24:01.720 --> 00:24:05.919 that that would come from you know, positions liberal positions 344 00:24:06.040 --> 00:24:10.800 or more conservative positions, but not within the ideals of 345 00:24:10.840 --> 00:24:11.400 the left. 346 00:24:11.840 --> 00:24:13.760 And this is exactly what is happening. 347 00:24:19.280 --> 00:24:22.240 Most of the people on July the eleventh were young. 348 00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:26.960 We're talking about people that they didn't live through the 349 00:24:27.280 --> 00:24:31.800 revolution process. They don't feel they need to have a 350 00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:37.600 gratitude towards anything or any kind of commitment towards anything. 351 00:24:38.080 --> 00:24:41.840 They just want to live in a society where polarity 352 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.200 is respected. Most we are talking about a young generation 353 00:24:45.760 --> 00:24:50.199 that is, you know, very diverse, and that uses internet 354 00:24:50.359 --> 00:24:53.960 and is in tune with the world, and they want 355 00:24:54.040 --> 00:24:57.359 to experience that freedom, and they want to live in 356 00:24:57.400 --> 00:25:00.560 a country that they are actually not just to go 357 00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:04.399 in exile, but they're actually able to build and to 358 00:25:04.560 --> 00:25:08.199 create and to be part of and to participate and 359 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:11.520 to say, hey, this should be done differently and to 360 00:25:11.600 --> 00:25:16.520 be heard. I don't see a reason why they should 361 00:25:16.600 --> 00:25:20.720 stop doing that. So I'm very hopeful. 362 00:25:27.320 --> 00:25:30.760 So interestingly, I'll never forget when I don't remember on 363 00:25:30.800 --> 00:25:34.880 what trip it was that I was visiting Cuba, and 364 00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:39.440 it was one of those revelations I was young, and 365 00:25:39.520 --> 00:25:43.280 somebody very of course, as Dude Cuban said, oh, this 366 00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:47.160 thing about the US embargo. The second you take away 367 00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:49.560 the US embargo, what is the Cuban government going to 368 00:25:49.600 --> 00:25:50.800 blame for all of the problems? 369 00:25:50.800 --> 00:25:52.120 And I was like, huh. 370 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:55.560 On the left, progressive people in the United States have 371 00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:59.720 always been demanding that the embargo be lifted, and yet 372 00:25:59.840 --> 00:26:03.119 this moment was kind of like, well, actually, does the 373 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:07.399 Cuban government want the embargo to be lifted because it 374 00:26:07.520 --> 00:26:11.000 is the perfect scapegoat. And in fact, the government has 375 00:26:11.040 --> 00:26:14.000 been saying what's happening in Cuba right now is a 376 00:26:14.040 --> 00:26:17.680 result of the embargo, that that is the reason why 377 00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:22.960 there is hunger, And they're also saying the US and 378 00:26:23.560 --> 00:26:28.119 social media is also behind the protests. And I'm wondering 379 00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:29.560 what you think about this. 380 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:35.480 You know, when you don't take responsibility for your actions 381 00:26:35.600 --> 00:26:40.280 and the way you have managed the administration so badly, 382 00:26:40.760 --> 00:26:45.159 and you are always blaming others for it, the embargo 383 00:26:45.280 --> 00:26:49.720 and all the restrictions of the US government towards Cuba 384 00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:52.480 is very relevant and important for the story. 385 00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:55.400 My personal opinion is not. 386 00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:59.760 Only the embargo, all the restrictions and all the inter 387 00:27:00.040 --> 00:27:06.320 and all the way the American government could interfere in Cuba, 388 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:11.560 or is interfering actually they should stop completely. The Cuban 389 00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:17.320 policy shouldn't be determined by its relationship, and its identity 390 00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:22.400 should not be built by its relationship towards United States. 391 00:27:22.800 --> 00:27:27.399 I think this is a thing for Cubans to solve. 392 00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:32.439 Cubans living in Cuba and also in exile. Of course, 393 00:27:32.560 --> 00:27:36.000 Cubans living in the United States needs to be part 394 00:27:36.080 --> 00:27:40.160 of this because this is their homeland and will always 395 00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:43.959 be and they are part of the solution. But Cubans, 396 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:47.320 this is not between states. This is for the Cuban 397 00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:48.520 people to solve it. 398 00:27:49.560 --> 00:27:54.000 So the word dissident does it in fact represent who 399 00:27:54.040 --> 00:27:57.760 you are as a young Cuban woman who is fiercely 400 00:27:57.760 --> 00:27:58.800 in love with her country. 401 00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:04.439