WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:02.800 This is parent data. I'm Emily Oster. 2 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:08.160 We are the rainbow of foods that you should have 3 00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:11.360 in all your meals. Eat your rainbow every day and 4 00:00:11.480 --> 00:00:14.319 great is how you will feel. We'll give you a 5 00:00:14.440 --> 00:00:18.279 essential vitaminsen also men or rosso when you get it 6 00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:21.000 on green, make sure you sit and eat a rainbow. 7 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:23.239 Let's start with the dollar red. 8 00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:27.520 We are something between Halloween candy, Thanksgiving pie, Christmas pudding 9 00:00:27.840 --> 00:00:31.440 and RFK junior. It's hard to avoid a discussion of 10 00:00:31.520 --> 00:00:32.960 nutrition these days. 11 00:00:33.720 --> 00:00:35.440 Of course, if you live in the world. 12 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:38.400 Of parenting, it's hard to avoid discussions of food and 13 00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:39.639 nutrition basically. 14 00:00:39.680 --> 00:00:43.199 Ever, the World Health Organization says the number of obese 15 00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:46.760 children and teens is now ten times higher than it 16 00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:49.920 was forty years ago due to poor nutrition and lack 17 00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:53.600 of exercise. A new study suggests children are heavier today 18 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:54.920 than they were in the last decade. 19 00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:58.440 Yeah researcher say the percentage of kindergarteners can considered to 20 00:00:58.440 --> 00:01:00.840 be obese has jumped considerably. 21 00:01:01.040 --> 00:01:03.520 Many parents are struggling with how best to help their 22 00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:07.200 overweight children, and make no mistake about it, childhood obesity 23 00:01:07.520 --> 00:01:10.680 is a staggering problem. Of course, It's best to start 24 00:01:10.800 --> 00:01:13.240 kids in the habit of eating healthy from a very 25 00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:16.279 young age. But if your children have kind of gotten 26 00:01:16.319 --> 00:01:20.000 off track, nutrition experts say you need to start small. 27 00:01:21.360 --> 00:01:23.080 How do I feed my kids the right foods? 28 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:24.400 What are the right foods? 29 00:01:24.920 --> 00:01:27.600 What if they are picky, like really picky? 30 00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:31.800 Am I poisoning my kids if I sometimes give them doridos? 31 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:35.399 How important is it to cook dinner every night? And honestly, 32 00:01:35.480 --> 00:01:37.399 has anyone ever really managed to do that? 33 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:39.959 These questions are hard. 34 00:01:40.800 --> 00:01:43.679 In fact, nearly all nutrition questions are hard to answer 35 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:48.760 with data because disentangling correlation from causation is nearly impossible. 36 00:01:49.720 --> 00:01:51.880 What we eat is so wrapped up. 37 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:55.360 In everything else we do that it's very challenging to 38 00:01:55.440 --> 00:01:58.840 point to a particular food or even a particular eating 39 00:01:58.920 --> 00:02:01.680 pattern and say that it's unhealthy or. 40 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:03.080 That it's healthy. 41 00:02:03.520 --> 00:02:06.240 But that doesn't necessarily mean we know nothing. And my 42 00:02:06.360 --> 00:02:09.200 guest today, doctor Robert Davis, is here to talk it 43 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:12.960 through with me. Robert is a medical doctor and an 44 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:16.720 award winning health journalist, and most importantly, he's a voice 45 00:02:16.760 --> 00:02:21.320 of sanity who realistically explores the nuance of nutrition, the 46 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:25.480 food industry, childhood obesity, and how challenging it is for 47 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:29.120 individual parents to try to parse through it all. We 48 00:02:29.200 --> 00:02:32.160 talk about diet versus eating habits and the importance of 49 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:35.600 language around that issue. We talk about food fads in 50 00:02:35.600 --> 00:02:38.840 the recent past and what we keep not learning from them. 51 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:44.440 I'm looking at you, Margarine, what Robert calls nutritionism, obsessing 52 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:47.840 about omega threes instead of thinking holistically about our diets, 53 00:02:48.720 --> 00:02:51.000 Whether ultra processed foods are really as bad as we're 54 00:02:51.040 --> 00:02:55.800 led to believe kids and Nozebic and how heavy a 55 00:02:55.880 --> 00:02:58.280 hand parents are supposed to take when it comes to 56 00:02:58.360 --> 00:02:59.200 their kids nutrition. 57 00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:03.600 This is a tough topic. We need to eat, we need. 58 00:03:03.440 --> 00:03:05.799 To feed our kids, and I don't think we fully 59 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:09.480 process how stressful it is to feel responsible for our kids' 60 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:14.160 health and as they get older, their body image. Hopefully 61 00:03:14.200 --> 00:03:17.720 this conversation can help alleviate some of that stress, especially 62 00:03:17.760 --> 00:03:18.880 around this time of year. 63 00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:23.160 After the break, Doctor Robert Davis, every day. 64 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:26.639 It is how you feel. We'll give you a essential 65 00:03:26.720 --> 00:03:30.440 vital mins and also mand Oroso and you, Gavin Aungreen, 66 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:32.680 make sure you sit and eat your rainbow. 67 00:03:35.040 --> 00:03:38.000 Doctor Robert Davis, thank you so much for joining me 68 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:41.720 on parent Data. Thanks for having me so can we 69 00:03:41.760 --> 00:03:44.960 start by having you introduce yourself a bit well. 70 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:49.560 I have spent many years as a healthcare journalist covering nutrition, fitness, 71 00:03:49.600 --> 00:03:54.960 other wellness topics. I've written four books covering topics including nutrition, fitness, 72 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:59.000 weight loss, and general wellness. And I have a series 73 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:01.560 of videos called The Health Healthy Skeptic, in which I 74 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:04.520 take common health claims and nutrition and fitness and wellness, 75 00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:08.400 try to look at the science, help viewers understand what's true, 76 00:04:08.440 --> 00:04:12.240 what's not, what's believable, what's not, and sort through all 77 00:04:12.320 --> 00:04:15.960 the misinformation and confusing facts that are out there on 78 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:17.039 these topics. 79 00:04:17.520 --> 00:04:19.360 It is a noble but difficult goal. 80 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:24.840 Indeed, So I want to talk about two things today, 81 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:29.720 both of which surround diet and food, and the first 82 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:31.919 one of them is the question of. 83 00:04:31.960 --> 00:04:34.839 What makes a healthy diet. 84 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:37.440 I spend a tremendous amount of time, as I think 85 00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:40.599 you do, kind of reading studies about food and trying 86 00:04:40.640 --> 00:04:45.839 to help people parse correlation from causality, and for me, 87 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:50.040 it's one of the most challenging literature, is one of 88 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:53.680 the most challenging kinds of data to understand because I 89 00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:58.599 think the correlations are so strong, Establishing causality is so challenging, 90 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:01.560 and what we eat is so deeply wrapped up in 91 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:05.880 so many other things that we do. So we might 92 00:05:05.880 --> 00:05:08.080 get to nerd out a little bit on some data, 93 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:12.960 which would be great, I hope. But let me start 94 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:15.480 with a question, which is, let's say I came to 95 00:05:15.520 --> 00:05:18.120 you and I just said, you know, I'm a person 96 00:05:18.760 --> 00:05:19.320 and i'd like. 97 00:05:19.320 --> 00:05:23.960 To be healthy. What is the best diet? How should 98 00:05:23.960 --> 00:05:25.039 I eat well? 99 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:26.760 First of all, let me say I'm not a fan 100 00:05:26.839 --> 00:05:28.839 of the word diet because of what it cannotes. 101 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:29.040 Right. 102 00:05:29.080 --> 00:05:31.920 When you think of diet, you think about something that's restrictive, 103 00:05:32.320 --> 00:05:35.120 something that's a regimen that's hard to follow, something that 104 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:35.880 you can't. 105 00:05:35.640 --> 00:05:36.839 Follow for very long. 106 00:05:37.880 --> 00:05:40.520 And so I use the word diet, but it's not 107 00:05:40.640 --> 00:05:42.520 something I love to do. I prefer to talk in 108 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:46.160 terms of eating patterns, eating habits, because I think that's 109 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:49.840 really more appropriate when we're talking about what the best 110 00:05:49.880 --> 00:05:53.080 way to eat is. So that said, I would say 111 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:56.159 that the best diet quote unquote, or the best way 112 00:05:56.200 --> 00:06:01.320 of eating is the so called Mediterranean diet, and that 113 00:06:01.400 --> 00:06:07.080 has received more attention obviously over the years, and has 114 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:10.600 been the subject of greater study and has been validated 115 00:06:10.640 --> 00:06:13.800 more than just pretty much any other way of eating 116 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:17.800 that is out there. There have been and I we 117 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:20.320 can talk about the different kinds of studies. Of course, 118 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:22.800 there have been a number of so called cohort studies. 119 00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:26.040 Those are the kinds that show correlation in which they 120 00:06:26.080 --> 00:06:29.440 follow large groups of people over many years or decades, 121 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:34.000 and those studies have associated a Mediterranean diet with a 122 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:39.960 lower risk of a number of different conditions heart disease, strokes, diabetes, 123 00:06:41.080 --> 00:06:46.040 Alzheimer's disease, obesity, the list goes on. And there importantly, 124 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:50.400 here are clinical trials. Those are the gold standard when 125 00:06:50.400 --> 00:06:54.160 it comes to proving whether something is effective, in this 126 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:58.200 case diet, and I should say randomized trials are very 127 00:06:58.240 --> 00:06:59.760 difficult to do when it comes to diet. 128 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:01.719 Is think of all the challenges there. 129 00:07:01.760 --> 00:07:04.880 You have to make sure that people eat a particular diet, 130 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:08.719 which is very difficult, difficult, very hard, and then you 131 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:10.760 have to figure out, okay, what else are they eating 132 00:07:10.760 --> 00:07:13.600 that may complicate that. You have to of course, they're 133 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:16.239 very expensive, and you have to follow people long enough 134 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:19.080 to really show an effect, and sometimes that can mean 135 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:21.800 many years or decades. But that's said, there have been 136 00:07:21.840 --> 00:07:26.040 several clinical trials on the Mediterranean diet that have shown 137 00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:29.600 that it can be effective in reducing the risk of 138 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:32.400 both cardiovascular disease and diabetes. 139 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:34.240 So we have evidence from there as well. 140 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:37.280 And then we have other types of evidence, small short 141 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:42.120 term studies that show improvements in markers like cholesterol, inflammation, 142 00:07:42.280 --> 00:07:45.440 things like that that also add to the body of evidence, 143 00:07:46.200 --> 00:07:50.240 the very large body of evidence suggesting that a Mediterranean 144 00:07:50.280 --> 00:07:53.720 way of eating is very helpful or can be very helpful. 145 00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:56.840 And so when we talk about the Mediterranean diet, it's 146 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:00.000 basically there's fish, lean protein. 147 00:08:00.400 --> 00:08:02.080 Les, olive oil, nuts. 148 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:06.760 In the trial that's run from this, people were given versions. 149 00:08:06.320 --> 00:08:07.160 Of that diet. 150 00:08:07.280 --> 00:08:09.320 Some of them had nuts, some of them had more 151 00:08:09.400 --> 00:08:12.800 olive oil, and there were some wine involved. 152 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:15.800 I believe right red wine specifically. 153 00:08:17.320 --> 00:08:20.800 I think what's hard about what's hard for me about 154 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:23.200 this is I absolutely agree with you. I think that's 155 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:26.000 the kind of diet that has the most evidence space. 156 00:08:27.080 --> 00:08:29.680 But not everyone is going to eat that exact it's 157 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:31.679 going to have that exact eating pattern. 158 00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:34.400 And where people then want. 159 00:08:34.160 --> 00:08:37.120 To go is to ask, well, what are the like, 160 00:08:37.160 --> 00:08:40.400 what are the individual components or how much flexibility is 161 00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:42.000 there around that? 162 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:45.000 You know, if I is it okay to eat some 163 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:47.719 red meat. What about Like I. 164 00:08:47.760 --> 00:08:50.840 Just wonder, like, is there a way for us to 165 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:54.240 understand these deviations, to go to say anything more? 166 00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:55.920 In some ways? 167 00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:57.280 Is there a way to say anything in the data 168 00:08:57.280 --> 00:08:59.400 that's more helpful than just a Mediterranean diet has been 169 00:08:59.400 --> 00:08:59.959 shown to be good. 170 00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:03.400 It would be great if you could have that well. 171 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:06.280 I would say that there is an advantage and a 172 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:09.679 disadvantage in the way that the Mediterranean diet has been 173 00:09:09.800 --> 00:09:14.080 presented to us. The disadvantage is that, as you say, 174 00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:18.240 there aren't strict guidelines that you must eat this much fish, 175 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:22.800 or you must limit yourself to this much alcohol. I 176 00:09:22.800 --> 00:09:26.000 actually there are limits on alcohol, But the point is 177 00:09:26.040 --> 00:09:28.559 that there aren't strict guidelines the way that people often 178 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:31.079 expect when it comes to other diets. So that can 179 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:33.800 be an issue for people because sometimes people want to know, okay, 180 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:37.160 how much of this and that every category of food 181 00:09:37.160 --> 00:09:41.080 should I consume. The advantage, though, is that there is 182 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:44.360 so much flexibility that people can tailor this way of 183 00:09:44.400 --> 00:09:45.400 eating to what. 184 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:46.280 Works for them. 185 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:50.480 So, for example, when it comes to protein, if you 186 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:53.319 prefer fish, or if you like nuts, or if you 187 00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:57.160 like other kinds of protein, you can use whatever combination 188 00:09:57.320 --> 00:10:00.200 and whatever sources work for you in terms of what 189 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:02.000 you like and what you don't like, so you're not 190 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:05.200 in a situation where you're forcing yourself to eat foods 191 00:10:05.280 --> 00:10:07.839 you don't like, which is often the case on very 192 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:12.200 prescriptive diets. And so what I like to say about 193 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:15.920 the Mediterranean Way of eating is that it provides guidelines 194 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:19.640 but a lot of flexibility so that people can work 195 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:21.719 within those guidelines to eat in a way that. 196 00:10:21.760 --> 00:10:22.400 Works for them. 197 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:25.719 I also should say that it is a reflection of 198 00:10:25.760 --> 00:10:30.560 the fact that there is no single optimal diet, and 199 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:32.720 I think that's very important because often. 200 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:33.560 That is very important. 201 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:36.840 We're searching for this holy grail in is diet A 202 00:10:37.160 --> 00:10:40.120 or diet B or C or D the best diet? 203 00:10:40.360 --> 00:10:42.680 And the answer is there's no such thing as a 204 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:46.520 best diet. There are many paths to the same destination, 205 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:50.120 and I think the Mediterranean Way of eating reflects that 206 00:10:50.280 --> 00:10:54.000 fact that within these guidelines you can get to that 207 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:58.880 destination depending on what your preferences are and what works 208 00:10:58.920 --> 00:11:01.520 for you long term. And I think that's something that 209 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:04.600 we've been led to believe that we have to find 210 00:11:04.640 --> 00:11:08.120 the optimal diet. And the truth is that the Mediterranean 211 00:11:08.160 --> 00:11:11.040 Way of eating helps us get to that without having 212 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:14.880 to follow a diet that is best for everyone. 213 00:11:14.520 --> 00:11:18.000 Quote unquote, I mean the history of sort of how 214 00:11:18.040 --> 00:11:21.840 we talk about individual foods is rife with these examples 215 00:11:21.920 --> 00:11:26.080 where we decided, you know, one food was good or 216 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:30.800 one food was bad, and that somehow we could identify 217 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:33.959 a component, you know, butter is bad and if only 218 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:37.040 we can take butter out and replace it with margarine, 219 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:40.000 you know, health is going to be improved. And in 220 00:11:40.040 --> 00:11:41.760 some of those cases it just turns out to be 221 00:11:41.800 --> 00:11:43.320 a waste. And in some of those cases, like the 222 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:47.479 butter and margarine, that actually turned out to be literally 223 00:11:47.800 --> 00:11:50.400 the opposite of what what was true. But I think 224 00:11:50.400 --> 00:11:52.960 it does illustrate for me what's very hard about this 225 00:11:53.040 --> 00:11:55.040 question of what is the best diet or what is this. 226 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:56.520 Or is this a superfood? 227 00:11:56.960 --> 00:11:58.959 Which is that there really is not something which you 228 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:02.640 would say you must eat that or you absolutely cannot 229 00:12:02.640 --> 00:12:02.960 eat that. 230 00:12:03.640 --> 00:12:05.560 You do you agree with that? Or is that there 231 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:08.640 are things you put in the must or no. 232 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:08.600 No, absolutely. 233 00:12:08.640 --> 00:12:11.760 And I think that this is a very important issue 234 00:12:12.120 --> 00:12:16.559 because there has been a growing trend toward what has 235 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:20.680 been called nutritionism, which is the idea of thinking about 236 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:24.720 foods in terms of their individual constituents. What, how much 237 00:12:24.920 --> 00:12:27.640 car how higher they are low in carbs, what about 238 00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:30.200 their program counting your macros? 239 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:33.280 Are you act Robert. 240 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:36.720 Right, counting your macros but also looking at omega threes 241 00:12:36.920 --> 00:12:40.800 or looking at antioxidants or looking at whether they contain cholesterol. 242 00:12:40.840 --> 00:12:43.280 The list goes on and on on, so breaking down. 243 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:47.840 Foods to their constituents, and this kind of reductionism, I 244 00:12:47.880 --> 00:12:50.400 think has led us to some really bad places in 245 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:54.320 being obsessed with the individual properties of foods rather than 246 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:57.920 looking at our diets as a whole. Related to this, 247 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:00.880 as this concept you mentioned of superfoods, the idea of 248 00:13:00.920 --> 00:13:04.120 elevating certain foods, whether it's berries, or whether it's salmon, 249 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:08.880 or whether green tea, the list goes on and elevating 250 00:13:08.920 --> 00:13:11.680 these foods to some kind of mythical status where we 251 00:13:11.800 --> 00:13:13.640 have to eat these in order to be healthy. 252 00:13:13.880 --> 00:13:15.479 Now, granted, many. 253 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:17.640 If not most, of these foods can be part of 254 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:22.480 a healthy diet overall, but to isolate these foods, to 255 00:13:22.520 --> 00:13:24.560 say that we have to eat these foods to be 256 00:13:24.920 --> 00:13:29.680 healthy is really the result of very very smart marketing 257 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.840 on the part of companies that have latched onto this 258 00:13:32.920 --> 00:13:35.040 idea to convince us that we need these foods. And 259 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:39.679 I think both of those ideas, nutritionism and superfoods are 260 00:13:39.760 --> 00:13:43.280 ones that we need to resist when we're thinking about 261 00:13:43.280 --> 00:13:47.280 a healthy diet and focus instead on the overall, the 262 00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:48.360 overall diet hairy. 263 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:50.120 Patterns that we have, the diet as a whole. 264 00:13:51.880 --> 00:13:54.120 The current version of this I see a lot of 265 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:57.560 in the social media space. In particular is protein. So 266 00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:00.400 this idea like that you must get. I don't know 267 00:14:00.520 --> 00:14:03.320 one gram of protein for every kilogram of body weight, 268 00:14:03.400 --> 00:14:05.880 or some number that requires you to eat like a 269 00:14:05.920 --> 00:14:10.520 disturbing amount of protein. People get very engaged in counting 270 00:14:10.640 --> 00:14:15.800 their protein. In particular, I'm curious if you count your protein. 271 00:14:17.280 --> 00:14:19.080 I do not. I do not count macros. 272 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:22.840 I try to live by what I've described as a 273 00:14:22.880 --> 00:14:26.720 way of thinking overall about my diet. Certainly there are 274 00:14:26.800 --> 00:14:29.760 situations where that may be beneficial. If somebody is trying 275 00:14:29.800 --> 00:14:33.040 to build muscle, if they're a bodybuilder or lifting weights, 276 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:36.200 it's important to get extra protein. And likewise, an older 277 00:14:36.280 --> 00:14:40.400 person who is who is undernourished, who's not getting enough food, 278 00:14:40.640 --> 00:14:43.760 it's important to try to think about focusing on protein. 279 00:14:43.920 --> 00:14:44.760 But for most. 280 00:14:44.560 --> 00:14:48.760 People, the normal American diet, people typically get adequate amounts 281 00:14:48.800 --> 00:14:52.400 of protein, and it's not particularly helpful to fixate on protein. 282 00:14:52.400 --> 00:14:52.880 In my view. 283 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:56.040 One of the things I think is very interesting about 284 00:14:55.680 --> 00:14:59.520 this space and the sort of like the comments made 285 00:14:59.520 --> 00:15:01.160 me think of it. A comment you made about somebody 286 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:03.520 who's trying to like bulk up is actually much of 287 00:15:03.560 --> 00:15:08.480 the best like evidence we have about eating comes from 288 00:15:08.520 --> 00:15:11.600 like sports, comes from sort of like places where you 289 00:15:11.640 --> 00:15:14.560 can study people who are doing like endurance athletics and 290 00:15:14.640 --> 00:15:16.960 you know, do experiments with protein and see could you 291 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:18.400 have all the protein at the beginning or do you 292 00:15:18.400 --> 00:15:20.520 have to spread the protein during the day. But those 293 00:15:20.560 --> 00:15:23.560 studies are often not very relevant to a population who 294 00:15:23.640 --> 00:15:26.480 is both not exercising at that kind of like, you know, 295 00:15:26.520 --> 00:15:28.920 not running one hundred and twenty miles a week, but 296 00:15:29.040 --> 00:15:31.800 also is kind of eating a diet that's sort of 297 00:15:31.880 --> 00:15:35.080 so far from where you would need to be screwing 298 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:37.600 around on the on the edges that it seems kind 299 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:38.800 of kind of irrelevant. 300 00:15:39.920 --> 00:15:40.640 I agree with that. 301 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:44.880 And what's more, often these kinds of studies are extrapolated 302 00:15:44.880 --> 00:15:45.760 to the average person. 303 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:48.160 We see this in social. 304 00:15:47.800 --> 00:15:50.480 Media, we see it in news stories, and that can 305 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:51.400 be counterproductive. 306 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:52.440 We'll give you one example. 307 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:57.160 You may have read stories about people should refuel after 308 00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:00.320 exercise with chocolate milk because it has the perfect. 309 00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:02.480 Ratio of carbs and protein. 310 00:16:02.560 --> 00:16:04.880 Well for someone to ruin this for me, do not 311 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:06.160 ruin this for me, Robert. 312 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:08.640 I'm sorry to do that. 313 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:11.440 But for someone who's an a leaf athlete, studies do 314 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:15.400 suggest that that kind of refueling after you've done intensive exercise, 315 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:18.960 perhaps several sessions a day, can be beneficial. But for 316 00:16:19.040 --> 00:16:22.240 the average person who goes for a walk or takes 317 00:16:22.280 --> 00:16:25.400 a yoga class, there's no reason to drink chocolate milk 318 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:28.120 after you exercise, And if you're concerned about your weight, 319 00:16:28.880 --> 00:16:32.520 that may be very well counteracting any benefits you get 320 00:16:32.520 --> 00:16:36.560 from the exercise by adding more calories after you exercise 321 00:16:36.680 --> 00:16:39.960 than you burned during that activity. So that's just one 322 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:43.280 of many examples where these kinds of studies that you say, 323 00:16:43.280 --> 00:16:46.480 as you say, can be very beneficial for understanding what 324 00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:51.080 works in athletes have been misappropriated when we. 325 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:54.080 Are talking about average people and what is best for us. 326 00:16:55.760 --> 00:16:58.440 I want to interject that I drink a chocolate protein 327 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:02.880 shake every time I exercise, and uh, just the reader, 328 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:07.240 the listeners should know that there you go. I'm not 329 00:17:07.280 --> 00:17:10.200 going to rethink it. I love I love the front. Okay, 330 00:17:11.040 --> 00:17:13.840 all right, I want to talk about ultraprocessed foods because 331 00:17:13.840 --> 00:17:16.359 I think this is for if you sort of asked 332 00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:21.280 the question of kind of what is our most hated, 333 00:17:22.040 --> 00:17:26.560 most maligned food group and also our most consumed food group. Ironically, 334 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:31.360 it is this category of ultra processed foods. So let 335 00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:34.479 me just open that aperture just generally for you, which is, like, 336 00:17:34.560 --> 00:17:38.120 what is your take on the kind of ultraprocessed foods? 337 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:43.160 Are the worst? Ultra process foods are fine? I love them. 338 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:45.320 Where are you on the ultra process foods? 339 00:17:45.800 --> 00:17:49.159 I would say there is growing evidence that ultraprocessed foods 340 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:52.919 are bad for us. But I say that with several 341 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:58.440 important caveats, because they're the research is still in its infancy, 342 00:17:58.560 --> 00:18:03.200 relatively speaking, and there are some gaps in our understanding 343 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:06.560 of ultra processed foods that are important for us to understand. 344 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:11.320 For starters, let's talk about just the concept of ultraprocessed foods. 345 00:18:11.800 --> 00:18:14.679 It comes from The concept comes from Brazil. It was 346 00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:18.200 developed in two thousand and nine, and basically it refers 347 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:21.040 to foods that have gone through, as the name suggests, 348 00:18:21.040 --> 00:18:25.159 a lot of processing in a factory. So the foods 349 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:31.600 typically have additives, preservatives, colors, flavors, things like that, and 350 00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:34.680 then typically salt, fat, and sugar on top of that. 351 00:18:34.800 --> 00:18:37.280 So think think of things. 352 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:45.400 Like hot dogs and packaged cookies and frozen piazza, sugary cereals, 353 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:49.359 things like that. So I think that it's I think again, 354 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:51.840 there's pretty good evidence, or at least we're seeing better 355 00:18:51.840 --> 00:18:55.040 evidence as we go, that these things are associated with a. 356 00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:56.439 Number of health effects. 357 00:18:56.520 --> 00:19:00.440 That One of the shortcomings, though, is that number one, 358 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:05.159 this category of ultra processed foods may include and does include, 359 00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:06.840 some foods that may not be so bad for us. 360 00:19:06.840 --> 00:19:09.479 For example, it includes package breads. 361 00:19:09.520 --> 00:19:12.080 Well, as we know, you can find an array of 362 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:15.200 package breads, some of which we know are not. 363 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:17.000 Good for us, but some of which are good for us, 364 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:17.280 that are. 365 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:21.600 High in whole grains, and other things that aren't necessarily 366 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:26.760 bad for us. So sometimes the ultra process category lumps 367 00:19:26.800 --> 00:19:29.800 together some things that should or shouldn't be there. I 368 00:19:29.800 --> 00:19:32.000 also can tell you, as somebody who grew up in 369 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.000 the South, there are plenty of things that people cook 370 00:19:34.040 --> 00:19:36.000 at home that aren't so good for you that would 371 00:19:36.040 --> 00:19:36.320 not be. 372 00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:38.919 Classified as ultra processed foods. 373 00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:42.000 Where I come from, everything is fried and those would 374 00:19:42.080 --> 00:19:45.159 not necessarily be classified as ultra processed foods. But they 375 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:49.879 aren't so good for us, So it's not a perfect system. 376 00:19:50.800 --> 00:19:54.080 And then also the other hole we have here is 377 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:57.760 that we don't understand what it is about these foods 378 00:19:58.160 --> 00:19:59.080 yet that. 379 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:01.639 Are bad that is so bad for us. Is it 380 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:02.840 the salt, fat, and sugar. 381 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:06.000 Is it the properties of the foods that typically cause 382 00:20:06.080 --> 00:20:10.960 us to over consume them. Is it the certain constituents 383 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:15.960 in the foods, whether the whatever additives there are, the emulsifiers, 384 00:20:17.080 --> 00:20:21.080 the colors, the flavors. Is it some combination of things. 385 00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:23.840 We don't know that. And I think that this again 386 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:28.280 is something that we need to understand better to fully 387 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:32.600 understand the extent to which these foods. 388 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:33.600 Are having effect in our diets. 389 00:20:34.040 --> 00:20:36.320 But the short answer to your question overall is I 390 00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:41.960 would say that there's enough evidence about the downsides of 391 00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:44.440 these foods to suggest that we should try to minimize 392 00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:45.199 them in our diets. 393 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:49.439 When I look at that evidence, one of the things 394 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:55.080 that I see very strongly is the socioeconomic confound So 395 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:59.480 the ultra processed foods are cheap, and they are therefore 396 00:20:59.520 --> 00:21:05.080 consumed largely or more disproportionately by people who have other 397 00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:08.639 have less education, have less income, have less access to resources, 398 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:11.960 exercise less, smoke, smoke more. Like all of those things 399 00:21:12.040 --> 00:21:15.040 in the data kind of very closely correlate. 400 00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:16.000 And so I. 401 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:20.920