WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:04.400 Dear listener, this episode includes some language that might be 2 00:00:04.440 --> 00:00:07.400 offensive and a brief description of violence. 3 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:13.080 We obviously have a Latin actress playing once again like 4 00:00:13.160 --> 00:00:15.840 a domestic worker. She works at a motel. You know, 5 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:18.919 anyone could obviously isolate that one scene and then you 6 00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:21.800 could deconstruct it and talk about you know, are we 7 00:00:21.840 --> 00:00:25.079 sort of continuing on with this same trope? And I'm 8 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:29.120 curious if you and Marvin had this experience on hint 9 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:31.520 to fight of it, but for us on pose, like 10 00:00:32.040 --> 00:00:35.760 I was hyper aware of the importance of casting black 11 00:00:35.760 --> 00:00:39.280 and brown people in roles on our show, because especially 12 00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:41.839 like if you're a working actor, like this could be 13 00:00:43.080 --> 00:00:46.360 you know, a month's rent, this could be an important meal. 14 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:48.879 Yeah, no, I mean I think we had a similar 15 00:00:49.440 --> 00:00:52.159 We had one character in the series. He's like this 16 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:54.680 kind of cooky side character that if you saw him, 17 00:00:55.160 --> 00:00:58.080 he would feel very stereotypical, like kind of the stereotypical 18 00:00:58.120 --> 00:00:59.040 trope of a. 19 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:00.520 Mexican like guy. 20 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:03.320 But we recognize that type of character in our own communities, 21 00:01:03.360 --> 00:01:05.240 like in our theos are pretty must and we wanted 22 00:01:05.240 --> 00:01:07.160 to have them be that character. But we definitely talked 23 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:10.000 about ways that going to look good or is that 24 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:13.000 going to look bad? But we want people to have representation, 25 00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:19.600 but also like is that the right way to do it? 26 00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:23.200 From Futuro Media, It's Latino Usa. I'm Maria ino Josa. 27 00:01:23.440 --> 00:01:25.679 Today we take you inside the writer's room with the 28 00:01:25.720 --> 00:01:29.760 creators of Pose and Penttified and they dissect what Latino 29 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:38.560 representation looks like seen by scene. Latino and Latina representation 30 00:01:38.800 --> 00:01:42.160 in film and television is an age old conversation topic, 31 00:01:42.600 --> 00:01:47.000 and despite some recent milestones, the numbers are still pretty disappointing. 32 00:01:49.600 --> 00:01:52.720 According to a recent study by the La Times, Latinos 33 00:01:52.720 --> 00:01:56.840 and Latinas are underrepresented across all aspects of television and 34 00:01:56.880 --> 00:02:00.640 film productions. Despite making up nearly twenty percent of the 35 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:05.960 US population, Latinos and Latinas constitute only six percent of 36 00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:10.600 main cast members, less than nine percent of writers, seven 37 00:02:10.720 --> 00:02:15.200 percent of directors, and six percent of senior executives. The 38 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:19.280 presence of Afro and Indigenous Latinos in the industry is 39 00:02:19.320 --> 00:02:24.560 even smaller, but statistics can only tell us so much. 40 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:29.280 How Latino individuals and communities are portrayed on screen is 41 00:02:29.320 --> 00:02:32.639 another part of the conversation. That's why today we're taking 42 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:35.920 you behind the scenes with two Award winning Latino creators 43 00:02:36.160 --> 00:02:40.040 who are breaking stereotypes about how our communities are depicted 44 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:44.400 on television, Stephen Canals and Linda Ivett Chavez. 45 00:02:46.480 --> 00:02:49.280 My name is Stephen Canals. I am the co creator, 46 00:02:49.440 --> 00:02:54.400 executive producer, writer, and director of the FX drama series Pose. 47 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:02.040 The category is Pose. 48 00:03:02.040 --> 00:03:08.760 Centers the black and Latin queer and trans individuals who 49 00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:13.680 are part of the New York City underground ballroom community 50 00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:18.680 as they are navigating the difficulties of the hiva's and 51 00:03:18.760 --> 00:03:21.640 crack epidemic of the eighties and early nineties. 52 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:24.600 Stephen was born and raised in the Bronx to an 53 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:27.920 Afro Puerto Rican mother and an African American dad. He 54 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:31.480 made his history when Poe's premiered in twenty eighteen, featuring 55 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:37.040 the largest cast of transgender actors in TV history. This year, 56 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:42.080 the show snagged numerous Emmy nominations, including Outstanding Drama Series. 57 00:03:42.320 --> 00:03:46.040 The show's star, MJ. Rodriguez became the first trans woman 58 00:03:46.440 --> 00:03:49.840 to be nominated for an Emmy in a major acting category. 59 00:03:50.200 --> 00:03:55.000 The award ceremony will take place on September nineteenth. 60 00:03:56.240 --> 00:03:57.520 I'm Lyndaevit Chames. 61 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:01.360 I'm one of the co creators executive producers and writers 62 00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:09.440 of Henphifide on Netflix. Henhified is the story of the 63 00:04:09.440 --> 00:04:13.360 Morales family, who are from Boyle Heights in Los Angeles 64 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:17.120 and are fighting to keep their taco shop open in 65 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:20.640 the face of gentrifcation. But it's also a show about 66 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:25.560 this Mexican American family who are trying to pursue the 67 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:28.720 American dreaming, though that that dream is false and a 68 00:04:28.760 --> 00:04:29.520 little bit broken. 69 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:35.760 Linda, the first generation Chikhana raised in Norfolk, California, originally 70 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:40.080 developed Hentified as an anthology style web series with co 71 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:45.240 creator Marvin Lemouse. After pitching the series around Hollywood, they 72 00:04:45.320 --> 00:04:49.240 received offers from six different networks and ultimately chose to 73 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:53.080 sign on with Netflix. The show got nominated for several awards, 74 00:04:53.200 --> 00:04:57.520 including the Peabody Award in twenty twenty. 75 00:04:58.520 --> 00:05:00.680 I can't wait for season two pent their five. 76 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:01.840 Yeah it's coming out. 77 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:05.719 I had a friend tell me when hen the Five 78 00:05:05.760 --> 00:05:08.120 first came out, like, Yo, did you know there's a 79 00:05:08.200 --> 00:05:11.000 queer couple on the show. I was like, oh really, 80 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:12.400 and they were like mm hm. And one of the 81 00:05:12.440 --> 00:05:15.760 girls is black. It was really amazing to be able 82 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:18.360 to say, oh, there's a place that you can go 83 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:23.000 and you can now see a fully actualized Latin queer 84 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:25.719 black person. I just wanted you to know that that 85 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:28.880 that was like what you did, which is really beautiful. 86 00:05:28.640 --> 00:05:31.800 Oh Evehen, and just gave me chills. That means so 87 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:32.359 much to me. 88 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:35.040 I mean, first of all, Puppy and Angel, my goodness, 89 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:38.480 I love them, one of my favorite couples of folks. 90 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:42.679 So definitely such a beautiful representation. And I love seeing 91 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:46.280 this love story and seeing these two two folks. 92 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:48.839 Like fall in love, like that's not when do we 93 00:05:48.880 --> 00:05:49.479 get to see that. 94 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:55.080 For this conversation, we wanted to try something a little different. 95 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:58.280 For those of you who are familiar with Inside the 96 00:05:58.320 --> 00:06:03.760 actor's Studio, well consider this conversation and inside the Writer's Room. 97 00:06:04.080 --> 00:06:07.000 Linda and Stephen will walk us through some of the 98 00:06:07.040 --> 00:06:10.640 most representative scenes from their shows. They're going to talk 99 00:06:10.640 --> 00:06:14.760 about the goals that motivated them, the fears they struggled with, 100 00:06:15.200 --> 00:06:18.640 and ultimately how some of the most defining elements of 101 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:24.240 their series came to be. Linda and Stephen are the 102 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:29.599 protagonists from here on and here we go action when 103 00:06:29.640 --> 00:06:33.599 you know, you know, not everybody knew. 104 00:06:33.440 --> 00:06:37.680 And Yessica are our lesbian couple in the and the series, 105 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:46.680 played by Kerry Martin and Julissa, both women of color, 106 00:06:46.760 --> 00:06:50.640 Julissa for Latina and Kerrie and duran Anna. She is 107 00:06:50.680 --> 00:06:54.680 this artist from Istile who is an activist and has 108 00:06:54.760 --> 00:06:58.600 in the course of the series gone from her protests 109 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:00.880 st are to having opportunities open up for her and 110 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:04.840 her whole world kind of open up through this local white, 111 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:08.440 essentially gentrifier who's coming to the community under the guise of. 112 00:07:08.520 --> 00:07:10.880 Helping the community beautify. 113 00:07:11.640 --> 00:07:15.920 Your little white savior is tearing up our neighborhood block 114 00:07:16.400 --> 00:07:17.120 by block. 115 00:07:17.640 --> 00:07:18.360 How many people in. 116 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:21.200 The homeless count were this place due to his beautifying projects. 117 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:22.680 Hum, face it. 118 00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:27.440 You are part of the problem, and you can separate 119 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:27.760 the two. 120 00:07:28.280 --> 00:07:31.000 The character of Jesika, she's an activist. She has this 121 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:34.200 profound passion for community, like this love for her community 122 00:07:34.200 --> 00:07:36.040 that's very deep, Which was also part of why we 123 00:07:36.080 --> 00:07:38.920 wanted the original character to be La based, because we 124 00:07:38.960 --> 00:07:42.040 had envisioned her as someone who grew up from birth 125 00:07:42.200 --> 00:07:44.400 to like this was where she was from and it 126 00:07:44.440 --> 00:07:46.480 was her roots and she was protecting and defending it. 127 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:51.120 We really wanted to have Afro Latin X representation in 128 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:53.200 this series and there's a lot of black and Mexican 129 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:57.960 like biracial folks in LA and there's also Afro Mexicans, 130 00:07:58.080 --> 00:08:00.560 of course, and so we're trying to figure out who 131 00:08:00.640 --> 00:08:02.960 would be the right presentment represent that. And Julisa is 132 00:08:02.960 --> 00:08:04.720 actually one of the first people we saw on the tapes, 133 00:08:04.760 --> 00:08:06.400 and right away we were like, oh my god, she's 134 00:08:06.400 --> 00:08:06.920 so good. 135 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:08.920 She's so good. She's so good. 136 00:08:08.960 --> 00:08:10.960 And I immediately was like, damn it. She's from the 137 00:08:10.960 --> 00:08:13.080 East Coast. She's got that East Coast accent. And she 138 00:08:13.200 --> 00:08:16.000 came in and did a camera with Carrie and it 139 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:16.400 was like. 140 00:08:16.400 --> 00:08:17.640 Ooh, let's be real. 141 00:08:18.640 --> 00:08:20.680 Your family has never accepted me. 142 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:23.000 Cica, it's just my mom. 143 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:26.920 It's not no, it's not the scene that they autih 144 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:31.400 ined with because actually the breakup scene between Anna and Yessica, 145 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:35.800 Yessica calls Anna out not only on her buying into 146 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:39.439 capitalism in a sense, but also a lot of the colorism, 147 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:42.640 a lot of the austrasization that she's been feeling from 148 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:46.000 Anna's family, the emotion that came out between them, the 149 00:08:46.040 --> 00:08:48.199 way that they really affected each other in that moment, 150 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:51.080 and just everything that Julisa brought. We said, like, this 151 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:53.839 is the right person, and what we have to do 152 00:08:54.520 --> 00:08:56.800 is do our best to be authentic. And if this 153 00:08:57.000 --> 00:08:59.679 person is Dominican from the East Coast, and this character 154 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:02.640 has to Dominican from the East Coast and from there, 155 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:07.760 you know, I'm Mexican American from La like I don't 156 00:09:07.800 --> 00:09:11.800 know fully the Afro Dominican experience. And sometimes it would 157 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:13.760 be lines where we would write them in English for 158 00:09:13.760 --> 00:09:15.160 her and she'd be like, yo, I would say. 159 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:16.000 This in Spanish. 160 00:09:16.160 --> 00:09:19.160 It's important to have that openness to it because you 161 00:09:19.640 --> 00:09:22.080 can't embody all of those things, and you have to 162 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:27.520 have the humility, I think, to allow others to contribute 163 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:28.680 and collaborate in that way. 164 00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:31.880 Yeah, no, I completely agree. And you know, so much 165 00:09:31.920 --> 00:09:34.960 of pose is ad libbed. You know, I just have 166 00:09:35.040 --> 00:09:37.360 to trust the actor. And you know, I've had a 167 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:40.120 lot of experiences, most recently when I was directing the 168 00:09:40.160 --> 00:09:42.040 series finale and then remember I walked in and I 169 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:45.040 gave MJ who plays Blanca, a note and it was 170 00:09:45.040 --> 00:09:46.880 like it was something really small, like I think it 171 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:49.280 was like an eye roll and like a tongue pop. 172 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:51.120 But I could see her working through it and I 173 00:09:51.160 --> 00:09:52.640 was like, tell me, what is it? And she was like, 174 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:55.200 I just dont thing Blanca would do that. I was 175 00:09:55.240 --> 00:09:56.920 like no, I was like, oh, it would be like 176 00:09:57.040 --> 00:10:00.200 really fun if in this moment that's your reaction. She's 177 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:02.040 like yeah, and I hear that. She's like, I just 178 00:10:02.400 --> 00:10:05.800 that's not Blanca though, and I was like okay, and 179 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:06.360 I let it go. 180 00:10:06.920 --> 00:10:09.360 Do you ever think you ever had that split second 181 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:11.839 of like, no, it's it's good. It's good the way 182 00:10:11.880 --> 00:10:13.240 it is, and then you're like, ohait, hold on, let 183 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:15.480 me let me take a bread hold on, let me listen. 184 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:18.080 I have this now, and then where I'm like what 185 00:10:18.520 --> 00:10:21.320 we spent months on this? Oh no, no, I think 186 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:21.839 you're okay. 187 00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:24.600 You're right for them to ask one question that pulls 188 00:10:24.640 --> 00:10:27.920 the whole thread and you're like, oh, okay. 189 00:10:30.640 --> 00:10:35.640 I am so lucky to be part of this, sister. 190 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:40.440 All of the Latin women on Pose are Afro Latin, 191 00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:43.560 you know. So we have Angel played by India Moore, 192 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:47.280 who is a black Dominican Puerto Rican woman, and then 193 00:10:47.320 --> 00:10:52.120 we have MJ. Rodriguez who plays Blanca, who is a 194 00:10:52.160 --> 00:10:59.320 Black Puerto Rican woman. The character Angel is a transgender 195 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:04.480 Afro at survival sex worker and she works at the 196 00:11:04.520 --> 00:11:08.920 Peers in New York City and the character Stan, played 197 00:11:08.920 --> 00:11:13.040 by Evan Peters, is one of her johns. He quickly 198 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:18.559 goes from being just a client to having a relationship 199 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:20.720 with Angel. You wanted to stay a. 200 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:23.360 Piece, you could have fucked the secretary like most guys do. 201 00:11:23.640 --> 00:11:25.320 And if you wanted to pay for how come. 202 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:27.480 You chose to spend a week driving around those docs 203 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:31.000 stand You were looking for me, but someone like me, 204 00:11:31.920 --> 00:11:33.160 I was an experiment to you. 205 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:41.280 Angel is really confused why their sexual relationship seems to 206 00:11:41.320 --> 00:11:45.720 be at the moment hyper centered on the fact that 207 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:48.600 she is a trans woman who still has a penis. 208 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:51.960 I'm a pornographic magazine come to life. 209 00:11:52.520 --> 00:11:57.920 She is confronting Stan about his sexual desires and his 210 00:11:57.960 --> 00:12:02.560 proclivities and why it seems that he's attracted to just 211 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:05.880 one part of her and not everything else. 212 00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:07.400 Get out of my apartment. 213 00:12:08.280 --> 00:12:13.960 Here you have this straight, white cisgendered man, and he 214 00:12:14.160 --> 00:12:17.199 is in a relationship with an Afro Latin trans woman, 215 00:12:17.400 --> 00:12:21.080 and he has all these complications around his own sexuality. 216 00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:23.680 And I think that felt really important to us because 217 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:27.160 more often than not, queer and trans people we are 218 00:12:27.280 --> 00:12:30.840 over sexualized. And I think in the case of thinking 219 00:12:30.920 --> 00:12:35.840 about the character of Angel as a Latin woman. Latin 220 00:12:35.880 --> 00:12:40.120 women are always over sexualized, you know, they're the fiery temptress, 221 00:12:40.280 --> 00:12:43.280 and so it felt really important for us to rewrite 222 00:12:43.280 --> 00:12:43.920 the narrative. 223 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:46.320 Yeah, I think, you know, for us, we had to. 224 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:49.560 We had obviously many female characters, and I remember when 225 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:53.240 we were kind of putting together that first episode in Posts, 226 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:57.720 there was a different opening scene for Anna's character and 227 00:12:57.920 --> 00:13:01.000 the next scene was Anna and. 228 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:04.800 Yessica in bed together. I'm not dating of Indida boob. 229 00:13:05.160 --> 00:13:09.920 No, because none of this is for sale, baby cakes, 230 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:10.600 only for you. 231 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:13.720 We had decided to cut the first scene with Anna 232 00:13:13.760 --> 00:13:15.200 because it didn't feel like it was working well in 233 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:17.719 the beginning, and I was concerned about showing the two 234 00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:20.280 of them, that being the first image of them together 235 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:25.800 because of historically how lesbian women queer women are like 236 00:13:25.880 --> 00:13:29.480 shown together and are hyper sexualized, and especially these two 237 00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:32.360 women of color being also fetishized in that way. 238 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:36.600 Yeah, for us, you know, And I think going back 239 00:13:36.640 --> 00:13:40.120 again to thinking about Angel and maybe more specifically thinking 240 00:13:40.160 --> 00:13:42.880 about her relationship in seasons two and three with the 241 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:43.960 character Little Poppy. 242 00:13:44.760 --> 00:13:46.880 Yeah, Angel, maybe Gool. 243 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:52.199 I'm sorry, Shaddy loving good today. 244 00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:59.000 Little Poppy is the young Dominican boy who is dealing 245 00:13:59.040 --> 00:14:01.760 drugs and living out on the streets, and he gets 246 00:14:01.760 --> 00:14:05.680 adopted by Blanca and joins the house of Evangelista. You know, 247 00:14:05.800 --> 00:14:08.920 in that relationship, it's just ultra loving and they had 248 00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:12.000 moments like we saw them make love, but it was 249 00:14:12.040 --> 00:14:14.840 always coming from a real place, which is just what 250 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:18.800 are the complications of being two human beings in a relationship. 251 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:21.760 Steven's right shows like Poe's and hint the fact like 252 00:14:21.800 --> 00:14:25.080 we're trying to show the full dimension anality of who 253 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:26.400 we are. I mean, like one of the things that 254 00:14:26.400 --> 00:14:28.720 we really worked on with the two of them was 255 00:14:28.800 --> 00:14:32.120 making sure that their relationship was three dimensional and had 256 00:14:32.160 --> 00:14:32.680 a history. 257 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:35.120 We see the two of them as little girls. 258 00:14:35.160 --> 00:14:36.800 They met when they were like in their early in 259 00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:39.560 their teens, and for me, it was exciting to see 260 00:14:39.560 --> 00:14:41.480 these two young girls falling in love because I feel 261 00:14:41.520 --> 00:14:46.240 like I don't often see that. There's a scene at 262 00:14:46.280 --> 00:14:51.160 the end where Eric hugs Pop. Eric Morales, he's one 263 00:14:51.160 --> 00:14:52.440 of our cousins in the series. 264 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:53.760 He plays hop. 265 00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:56.880 Gasimito Monatus's grandson, and that was a moment that Marvin 266 00:14:56.880 --> 00:14:58.680 and I had had in our head for such a 267 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:01.320 long time, We're just like, we want to see these 268 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:06.360 human hug because I think machismo and Latino communities and 269 00:15:06.880 --> 00:15:11.160 you know, Mexican machismo. We wanted to use Hop and 270 00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:15.000 Eric is a way to kind of be an example 271 00:15:15.040 --> 00:15:18.040 to those men in our community. Is like, you can't 272 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:20.080 hug your grandson and let him cry in your arms, 273 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:24.560 like he can be emotionally heartbroken from love, Like that's okay, 274 00:15:24.640 --> 00:15:25.760 that's allowed. 275 00:15:27.640 --> 00:15:27.920 Question. 276 00:15:36.880 --> 00:15:40.560 This season, this final season of Pose, there is actually 277 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:44.840 a scene where Angel and Little Papy are engaged and 278 00:15:44.880 --> 00:15:51.640 they're having an argument about paying for their wedding. 279 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:52.240 And actually just going to pay for it, but what 280 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:53.360 does that make me look like? 281 00:15:53.920 --> 00:15:57.880 And he's got all of this raggedocious like I'm going 282 00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:00.800 to pay for it. I'm a man, and literally says 283 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:05.240 to him. And so we literally called it out. 284 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:05.640 You know. 285 00:16:06.040 --> 00:16:09.560 We had conversations in the room about the character and 286 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:14.080 specifically the wedding and these choices, and that's where the 287 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:18.200 conversation beard, which is I feel like she would call 288 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.080 out this behavior and be very specific about why it's 289 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:26.040 not okay. And it's great to be able to highlight it, 290 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:29.800 even if it's just breefe, you know, you get feedback 291 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:31.760 and you know that it resonates with the audience. 292 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:36.720 Coming up on Latino USA, Stephen and Linda discussed their 293 00:16:36.760 --> 00:16:41.680 experiences capturing difficult traumatic topics in their series and the 294 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:45.000 importance of who gets to tell the stories of Latinos 295 00:16:45.040 --> 00:17:28.440 and Latinas on television. Stay with us, Hey, we're back. 296 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:37.240 Stephen Ganals of Pose and Linda Yvette Chavis Oftentified continue 297 00:17:37.280 --> 00:17:41.000 their conversation now about the challenges of representing Latino characters 298 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:45.280 and communities on the screen. Here are Stephen and Linda again. 299 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:57.359 When I sold Pose to Ryan Murphy, Ryan and I 300 00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:01.000 spent a lot of time talking about Jenny Livingstone's landmark 301 00:18:01.040 --> 00:18:04.360 documentary Paris Is Burning, which was released in nineteen ninety one. 302 00:18:04.840 --> 00:18:08.560 And in that documentary there's a young trans woman of 303 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:13.440 Venus Extravaganza, who at the very end of the documentary 304 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:17.640 we find out is murdered. And so through those conversations 305 00:18:18.040 --> 00:18:21.720 we wound up creating the character Angel, And so our 306 00:18:21.760 --> 00:18:25.359 intention was just to really honor Venus and her life, 307 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:30.480 but also for us to reimagine what this trans woman 308 00:18:30.560 --> 00:18:33.720 would have been, what she would have become if she 309 00:18:33.760 --> 00:18:37.600 had lived, which I think is it felt subversive and 310 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:41.359 refreshing to me as a storyteller, because so often queer 311 00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:44.920 and trans people aren't represented that way, and specifically trans 312 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.639 women more often than not are killed. 313 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:51.200 I need you didn't tell me what happened, please. 314 00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:55.920 I got a call from the motel manager. 315 00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:58.760 He said, after we Love, he was curious about what 316 00:18:58.840 --> 00:18:59.920 was happening in those worlds. 317 00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:04.640 So the man went into the room to clean it house. 318 00:19:07.560 --> 00:19:14.160 The character Candy, who is played by Angelica love Ross, 319 00:19:15.080 --> 00:19:22.119 goes missing and her best friend Lulu played by Hailey Sahar, 320 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:26.320 is searching for her, and all she knows is that 321 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:31.440 Candy has been working as a dancer at a nightclub 322 00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:33.720 and has picked up a couple of New Johns, and 323 00:19:33.760 --> 00:19:37.960 so she's worried about her. They found Kenny's body dead 324 00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:41.720 and clotton and then we find out that she's been murdered. 325 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:47.960 When we made the choice specifically for Candy to die, 326 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:51.399 it was in twenty nineteen. In a span of four days, 327 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:54.359 three black trans women were murdered, and we were like, 328 00:19:54.560 --> 00:19:57.480 we can't ignore this, you know, And I think the 329 00:19:57.520 --> 00:20:00.720 reaction at first was like we're going to be those people, 330 00:20:00.840 --> 00:20:03.760 Like we're going to get dragged and you know ultimately 331 00:20:03.800 --> 00:20:07.440 like we're duplicating past hurts and traumas. That's all we're doing. 332 00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:10.639 And I think what really came through for me and 333 00:20:10.800 --> 00:20:13.040 what having make the decision to say, no, we have 334 00:20:13.080 --> 00:20:17.000 to tell this story is knowing that these murders are 335 00:20:17.040 --> 00:20:18.800 going to continue to happen, these deaths are going to 336 00:20:18.800 --> 00:20:22.080 continue to happen, and here we have this incredible platform 337 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:25.320 where we have an opportunity to educate the audience, and 338 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:30.600 we're choosing to not make that choice because we're personally concerned. 339 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:33.000 And it was like I had to check my own 340 00:20:33.040 --> 00:20:35.359 privilege in the moment, and it's like, you know, I 341 00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:39.480 felt a responsibility to the women who are part of 342 00:20:39.520 --> 00:20:42.399 my community and the women who aren't, to say we 343 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:43.520 have to tell the story. 344 00:20:44.080 --> 00:20:49.120 Were you ever like fearful of like showing that pain 345 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:51.119 in that trauma, Because that moment when we see Candy, 346 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:53.840 it's like very vivid, We're seeing her body on the ground. 347 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:56.640 And sometimes I feel like our communities are like we're 348 00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:58.399 tired of seeing the trauma. We're tired of seeing the 349 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:00.040 pain and the violence. 350 00:21:00.080 --> 00:21:02.760 You know, I think, and the jury's out to be 351 00:21:02.760 --> 00:21:04.960 honest when it comes to the reaction to it because 352 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:08.200 I know some specifically trans people, you know, I've heard 353 00:21:08.280 --> 00:21:11.359 feedback from and they hated it, and then others felt 354 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:15.520 like it was important to see. I think the question 355 00:21:15.600 --> 00:21:18.560 that kept coming up for me around how I mean 356 00:21:18.560 --> 00:21:20.439 this was the question that always came up for me 357 00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:23.560 when considering how to depict any moment on the show 358 00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:28.080 was who is the audience? It felt important to show 359 00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:31.560 it because I think the reality is the vast majority 360 00:21:31.760 --> 00:21:34.359 of our audience was going to come in not knowing 361 00:21:34.600 --> 00:21:37.360 that this is the reality, that this is what happens. 362 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:40.080 And it just felt like if we really slap you 363 00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:42.919 in the face with confronting it, what are you going 364 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:45.119 to do? You know, like you have to wrestle with it. 365 00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:48.280 I often struggle with it because exactly what you're saying, 366 00:21:48.320 --> 00:21:50.520 like we at the same time there's this huge platform 367 00:21:50.560 --> 00:21:52.480 and we get to talk about real things that are 368 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:56.760 really happening and influence folks, and they're thinking around it. 369 00:21:56.800 --> 00:21:59.679 Because for us, like with Pop, like that moment at 370 00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:01.520 the end of the season where he gets detained, that 371 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:03.280 was a big point of discussion of like do we 372 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:04.760 want to see that? Do we want to show him 373 00:22:04.760 --> 00:22:07.880 being put into an ice truck and how painful that is. 374 00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:14.240 It's your vehicle? 375 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:20.359 Yes, are you catching Miro Morales And the finale of 376 00:22:20.520 --> 00:22:25.199 the season one of hemphfied Pop. He is on his 377 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:29.440 way to the hospital because Lydia, Eric's girlfriend is having 378 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:32.880 their baby, and on the way he gets pulled over 379 00:22:33.280 --> 00:22:37.919 by a police officer who then calls ICE and detains him, 380 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:39.439 and we discover at the end of the season that 381 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:41.440 Pop has been undocumented this whole time. 382 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:50.960 When your first season first came out, like that was 383 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:53.280 a moment that I remember, if it's fair to say, 384 00:22:53.320 --> 00:22:55.280 went viral, but I just I know that I saw 385 00:22:55.320 --> 00:22:57.880 that going around quite a bit, and like I saw 386 00:22:57.920 --> 00:22:59.560 that there was a lot of discussion about it, and 387 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:04.960 if you know, we have to take those kinds of risks. Ultimately, 388 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:08.520 it's like that's kind of our responsibility. Right. 389 00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:12.960 Often we'll find ourselves as artists because you know, myself 390 00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.119 and Marvin, we're artists like Steve and you're an artist. 391 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:17.240 Like we've been in these situations where we've had to 392 00:23:18.080 --> 00:23:19.959 where we want to talk about our trauma, we want 393 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:21.800 to talk about what our families have gone through, where 394 00:23:21.800 --> 00:23:24.159 we want to create art out of them, and then 395 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:26.600 we have supporters come in to support us, and they. 396 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:28.720 Don't realize that they're doing it, but they're doing it. 397 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:32.880 Where you know, we're being seen as only that trauma 398 00:23:33.040 --> 00:23:36.160 versus seeing the full complexity of who we are as humans, 399 00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:38.920 and I think often we all also end up being 400 00:23:39.040 --> 00:23:41.480 infantilized or fetishized in that process. 401 00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:50.720