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<v Speaker 1>I have never thought about making a documentary about gangs

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<v Speaker 1>because I thought that it was one of the most

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<v Speaker 1>studied knowns and explaining topics about this region. And I

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<v Speaker 1>thought that I had nothing new to contribute. But when

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<v Speaker 1>Carlos told me about those mens inside this prison, I

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<v Speaker 1>knew that I had something unique.

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<v Speaker 2>From Futuro media. It's Latino Usa. I'm Mariano Josa. Today,

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<v Speaker 2>a new documentary takes us inside a Salvadoran prison and

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<v Speaker 2>into the world of former gang members who are now

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<v Speaker 2>openly gay. A few years ago, something unusual and kind

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<v Speaker 2>of incredible happened in a prison in western El Salvador.

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<v Speaker 2>The prison was called San Francisco Gote, and it was

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<v Speaker 2>entirely dedicated to holding members of El Salvador's notorious gangs

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<v Speaker 2>MS thirteen and the eighteenth Street Gang. Over the past

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<v Speaker 2>three decades, these gangs have been in an informal war

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<v Speaker 2>that has turned El Sabadord into one of the most

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<v Speaker 2>violent countries in the world and has forced thousands of

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<v Speaker 2>Salvadorans to leave their country. In twenty seventeen, nearly all

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<v Speaker 2>of the inmates inside the prison San Francisco Gotera withdrew

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<v Speaker 2>from their gangs, and converted to Christianity. Evangelical churches came

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<v Speaker 2>to control every part of the prison, every part except

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<v Speaker 2>for one, a small isolation block where inmates are locked

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<v Speaker 2>in around the clock for a variety of reasons. And

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<v Speaker 2>in that isolation block, nine men have chosen to live

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<v Speaker 2>in a single tiny cell about a yard by two

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<v Speaker 2>yards because they've made a decision that's unforgivable both to

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<v Speaker 2>the gangs they were once a part of and to

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<v Speaker 2>the Evangelical Church. These men are gay and they've decided

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<v Speaker 2>not to hide it. In twenty nineteen, Marlene Vignano and

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<v Speaker 2>Cadlos Martinez set out to document life inside that cell.

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<v Speaker 2>Madelene is a filmmaker who's originally from Spain and has

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<v Speaker 2>lived in El Salvador since twenty thirteen. Godless is a

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<v Speaker 2>Salvadoran reporter who's written about gangs for the Salvadoran newspaper

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<v Speaker 2>El Farro for the past decade. Their documentary in perdo

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<v Speaker 2>Nable Were Unforgivable is not just another documentary about Salvadoran gangs,

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<v Speaker 2>and the film has gotten a lot of attention over

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<v Speaker 2>the last few months. It won top awards at several

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<v Speaker 2>international film festivals and was selected by the International Documentary

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<v Speaker 2>Association as one of the ten best short films of

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty. In this segment of How I Made It

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<v Speaker 2>Madleine Vignallo and Carlos Martinez talk about the challenges of

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<v Speaker 2>documenting life inside a tiny, overcrowded cell over the course

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<v Speaker 2>of just twelve days. They also reflect on the world

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<v Speaker 2>they found inside the isolation unit and what that world

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<v Speaker 2>can tell us about the country outside the prison walls.

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Marlin Vignallo and I am a director

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<v Speaker 1>and producer of documentary films.

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<v Speaker 3>And my name is Carlos Martinez, and I'm a co

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<v Speaker 3>producer and co writer of Unforgive All of Film.

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<v Speaker 1>So the first time I came here to the Salvador

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<v Speaker 1>Goes in twenty ten, I came here as a volunteer

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<v Speaker 1>for an enngio to make a small video. That was

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<v Speaker 1>the first time I had contact with documentary films, and.

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<v Speaker 3>I fell in love with that.

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<v Speaker 1>At that time I also met Carlos, and in twenty

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<v Speaker 1>thirteen I decided to move to Salvador, to live here

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<v Speaker 1>and to try to be a filmmaker here, and of

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<v Speaker 1>course to be with Carlos.

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<v Speaker 3>We have been almost eight years together. I worked for

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<v Speaker 3>a newspaper for an online newspaper in Salvador named Del Faro.

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<v Speaker 3>I has spent almost ten years making research about violence

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<v Speaker 3>in Central America, especially about gangs issues. One of my colleagues,

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<v Speaker 3>a photojournalist, Victorpaena, invited me to a gang pussion San

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<v Speaker 3>Francisco o Terra inl Salvador. I was talking with the

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<v Speaker 3>director of this persion and he told me there was

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<v Speaker 3>an isolation part of the prison and in this part

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<v Speaker 3>of the prison it was different cells because of different reasons,

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<v Speaker 3>because of the inmates were so violent. But there was

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<v Speaker 3>one cell with nine guys inside because they have taken

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<v Speaker 3>the decision to be openly gain inside itself, and it

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<v Speaker 3>was really amazing for me. One of the first things

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<v Speaker 3>you learned about gangs is that they consider almost axuality

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<v Speaker 3>as a shameful condition and they kill their own members

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<v Speaker 3>if they suspect they can be case. For my surprise,

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<v Speaker 3>they were really open to talk about themselves, and I

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<v Speaker 3>think it's because nobody has never talked with them without shape,

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<v Speaker 3>and I thought people need to see them, to listen

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<v Speaker 3>to them, to watch their conditions, and you know, surrounding

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<v Speaker 3>area such a visual story so I called Marlynne and

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<v Speaker 3>I told her about this story and she said yes.

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<v Speaker 1>So when Carlos told me that he met these guys,

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<v Speaker 1>I was very interested in making a documentary film about that.

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<v Speaker 1>But I thought that it was impossible to get the

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<v Speaker 1>permission to film inside the prison during our long period,

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<v Speaker 1>and we asked to the director of the prison system

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<v Speaker 1>and surprisingly he said, yes, you can, and he gave

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<v Speaker 1>us twelve days of shooting. During the first two days,

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<v Speaker 1>I was inside the sale with them, talking with them

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<v Speaker 1>without the camera, and Carlos was interviewing them and asked

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<v Speaker 1>them who of them wanted to be in the film.

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<v Speaker 3>For us, it was really really important for them to

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<v Speaker 3>know and to understand what is this about. We were

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<v Speaker 3>very interested in not add more risk to their condition.

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<v Speaker 1>We spent almost eight hours a day inside the cell.

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<v Speaker 1>So at the beginning they were very curious about the camera,

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<v Speaker 1>about us because it was something new for them, and

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<v Speaker 1>they wanted to talk a lot with us. And they asked,

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<v Speaker 1>what do you want us to do because our life

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<v Speaker 1>here is very boring, And I said, no, I just

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<v Speaker 1>want to be here in a corner shooting your daily

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<v Speaker 1>life or the normal things to do inside the cell.

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<v Speaker 1>They understood, So the story is about Giovanni.

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<v Speaker 3>Giovanni really loved the Cameratamatada. Giovanni started being a gang

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<v Speaker 3>member and a hitman at twelve, and he has lost

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<v Speaker 3>the number of people he has killed.

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<v Speaker 1>And in the prison, he decided to retire to the

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<v Speaker 1>gang and join an evangelical chart. But he was in

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<v Speaker 1>love with another gang member, so he decided to be

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<v Speaker 1>in a relationship with his inmate. So he is not

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<v Speaker 1>only guilty of his crimes, but he is guilty also

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<v Speaker 1>of an unforgivable scene for the charge and also for

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<v Speaker 1>the gun.

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<v Speaker 3>We didn't want to make a movie about guns, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>We really want to make a movie about a society

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<v Speaker 3>with a broken moral compass. It's a society where you

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<v Speaker 3>can say to kill next to to love in one sentence.

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<v Speaker 3>And this is supposed to make sense. When this guy,

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<v Speaker 3>our main character, Giovanni, told us it depends onzona to

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<v Speaker 3>kill a man. Well, it's a bad thing that it's

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<v Speaker 3>not so difficult, Hargo, But to love a man is

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<v Speaker 3>an anti natural thing. It's really hard how somebody can

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<v Speaker 3>say to kill is easy and to love is difficult.

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<v Speaker 1>We had twelve days of shooting and during these days

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<v Speaker 1>we were lost because we didn't know what was the

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<v Speaker 1>story that we had and that we wanted to tell.

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<v Speaker 1>But when the main character tell us that sentence, everything

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<v Speaker 1>changed for us. We decide that with this documentary film,

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<v Speaker 1>we will try to understand and explain why the sentence

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<v Speaker 1>has sense for him and in which society will live

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<v Speaker 1>in where this sentence is possible. The charts rule the

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<v Speaker 1>internight life of the prison, so for us was very

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<v Speaker 1>important to put in the documentary the things that the

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<v Speaker 1>charts believe.

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<v Speaker 3>You also said for us the amost example and communand life.

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<v Speaker 3>This pressure was talking an he say, God compares homosexual

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<v Speaker 3>people with dogs with animals, and they really believe that.

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<v Speaker 3>Before we met these nine guys, they were living with

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<v Speaker 3>the rest of the inmates in the regular part of

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<v Speaker 3>the prison ruled by the Shorts. But the church did

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<v Speaker 3>not allow them to be together or even to talk

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<v Speaker 3>to each other or to be one next to the

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<v Speaker 3>other because they suspect they were gay. So they asked

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<v Speaker 3>to transfer them to an isolation cell two can be

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<v Speaker 3>together and to live openly. And it was a very

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<v Speaker 3>hard decision because the isolation cell is not a human thing.

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<v Speaker 1>They spent all day side the cell, almost twenty four

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<v Speaker 1>hours a day. They only can't go out to go

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<v Speaker 1>to the bathroom during fifteen minutes in the morning and

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen minutes in the afternoon. And this place is really

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<v Speaker 1>really hot, and the cell is tiny, so they sleep.

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<v Speaker 3>In the floor, or two of them can sleep in

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<v Speaker 3>the amac.

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<v Speaker 1>It's overcrowded, it's dirty, it smells really really bad, and

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<v Speaker 1>they don't have even the basics. Most of the time,

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<v Speaker 1>they don't have water or soap.

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<v Speaker 3>Above all, they don't have things to do because they

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<v Speaker 3>don't have access to education programs because they were in

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<v Speaker 3>an isolation place. Of course, they don't have sports or

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<v Speaker 3>books or television or radios or so they make, for example,

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<v Speaker 3>chess with soap. They make the soap like in the

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<v Speaker 3>shape of chess pieces. They made their own cards to

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<v Speaker 3>play cards inside.

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<v Speaker 1>When you enter in a prison, you don't expect to

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<v Speaker 1>find love. They show love to each other inside the cell,

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<v Speaker 1>not only the couple, also with the other inmates.

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<v Speaker 3>They were taking.

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<v Speaker 1>Care of each other, protecting each other, loving each other.

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<v Speaker 1>They are very very very complex characters. So in a

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<v Speaker 1>moment they can't tell you how they killed and in

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<v Speaker 1>the next moment, they can show tenderness and love to

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<v Speaker 1>each other.

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<v Speaker 3>There are a lot of moments that make us to

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<v Speaker 3>understand we were in the presence of a sable side.

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<v Speaker 3>It's tiny shell. The essence of what Salvadorian people, Salvadorian

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<v Speaker 3>society are is inside these people. They are young as

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<v Speaker 3>we are, they are poor as we are, They are

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<v Speaker 3>violent and amophobic, can match us as we are, and

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<v Speaker 3>they have a really low level of education as we

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<v Speaker 3>are as a society, and they are trying to find

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<v Speaker 3>their place in this country. We build countries with no

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<v Speaker 3>place for everyone, societies that tolerate extreme poverty next to

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<v Speaker 3>the extreme richness, a society built under a history of violence.

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<v Speaker 3>The reality is not black and white, and the categories

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<v Speaker 3>of good and evil are a useless categories. We also

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<v Speaker 3>don't want to redeem a modern just for being in

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<v Speaker 3>love or just for being gay. We try to say

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<v Speaker 3>how complex human beings are. We just have twelve days

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<v Speaker 3>to shoot because the thirteen day Naive Bukelly became president

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<v Speaker 3>of al Sabama, whose there is confersa bukele have a

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<v Speaker 3>Trump style to be president, you know, to agitate hate

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<v Speaker 3>or to use hate or fear to promote his own

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<v Speaker 3>figure as a central character of the country, and I

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<v Speaker 3>bookelem hidden like journalists, so we knew that we will

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<v Speaker 3>not have the opportunity to continue shooting after he became president.

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<v Speaker 1>When the government changed, all the prison systems changed, and

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<v Speaker 1>all of the inmates inside the San Francisco Otra prison

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<v Speaker 1>were transferred to another prison. We have tried to communicate

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<v Speaker 1>with them, to talk with them by phone, but it

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<v Speaker 1>was impossible. The prison system don't allow us to do it,

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<v Speaker 1>so all we know about them is that they were

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<v Speaker 1>transferred to another prison. At least two of them are together,

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<v Speaker 1>and the other two we don't know where they are.

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<v Speaker 1>Last December, we launched the trailer and a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people from different countries started writing me asking me for interviews.

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<v Speaker 1>I am very happy that all these people is so

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<v Speaker 1>uny interested this film, because I think we have the

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<v Speaker 1>opportunity to open debates for us.

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<v Speaker 3>It's really happy that this movie have traveled a lot

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<v Speaker 3>around the world. But it's so important to show with

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<v Speaker 3>hearing our salvator to make discussions here in Salvador, because

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<v Speaker 3>we are not used to use this mirror, this beautiful

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<v Speaker 3>mirror that cinema is. Because it's really hard to make

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<v Speaker 3>movies in the Salvator for American audience. If they want

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<v Speaker 3>to understand why we escape from our countries, we need

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<v Speaker 3>to understand our countries and we need to understand the

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<v Speaker 3>places we came from when we arrived to the United States.

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<v Speaker 3>And it can also help them to understand why is

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<v Speaker 3>stupid to think that the world can stop us for

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<v Speaker 3>escaping from our countries and why a world can stop

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<v Speaker 3>us from trying to get a better life.

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<v Speaker 2>That was filmmaker Madelene Vignayo and reporter Carlos Martinez talking

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<v Speaker 2>about their film Unforgivable. This episode was produced by Alissa

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<v Speaker 2>Scarce and edited by Marta Martinez. The Latino USA team

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<v Speaker 2>includes Miel Masis, Andrea Lopez Grusado, Julia Ta Martinelli, Gini Montalvo,

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<v Speaker 2>Alejandra Salasar, Rerinaldo, Leanos Junior, and Julia Rocha, with.

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<v Speaker 3>Help from Raoul Perez.

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<v Speaker 2>Our engineers are Stephanie Lebau, Julia Caruso, and Leah Shaw.

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<v Speaker 2>Our digital editor.

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<v Speaker 3>Is Luis Luna.

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<v Speaker 2>Our New York Women's Foundation Ignite fellow is Mari es Kinka.

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<v Speaker 2>Our theme music was composed by Signer Rubinos. If you

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<v Speaker 2>like the music, you heard on this episode. Stop by

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<v Speaker 2>Latinousa dot org and check out our weekly Spotify playlist.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm your host and executive producer Marie no Fosa. Join

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<v Speaker 2>us again next time, and in the meantime, look for

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<v Speaker 2>us on social media. Alos Bacco Bye.

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<v Speaker 4>Latino USA is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation,

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<v Speaker 4>working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide,

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<v Speaker 4>the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, and W. K.

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<v Speaker 4>Kellogg Foundation, a partner with communities where children Come First.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we were hired on open English classes after this interview.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Maria in Josa this week on Latino USA. In

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<v Speaker 2>terms of crisis, something seemingly small like the lack of

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<v Speaker 2>contraceptives can have long lasting consequences for women. We travel

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<v Speaker 2>to the Columbia Venezuela border to see what this looks like.

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<v Speaker 2>The women who were denied the abortion saw serious financial

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<v Speaker 2>issues that end up in the court system. That's next

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<v Speaker 2>time on Latino USA.