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<v Speaker 1>Dear listener. This month, we're bringing you episodes of La Brega,

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<v Speaker 1>a special seven part mini series presented by Futuro Studios

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<v Speaker 1>and WNYC Studios, all about the Puerto Rican experience. Today's

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<v Speaker 1>episode is an encyclopedia of betrayal, and if you'd like

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<v Speaker 1>to hear any of the episodes in Espanol, visit the

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<v Speaker 1>La Brega feed wherever you listen to your podcasts. And

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<v Speaker 1>now I'm going to hand things over to w n

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<v Speaker 1>y c's Alna Casanova Verges, the host of La Brega.

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<v Speaker 2>Alana, let's go. Yeah, yeah, you don't want to me.

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<v Speaker 3>Not long ago, Chris Gregory Rivera and our producergu Sandino

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<v Speaker 3>went to an office in sent Juan. They were there

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<v Speaker 3>to visit a stack of paper. Mama, more than paper,

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<v Speaker 3>it's a stack of folders. Really that was so heavy

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<v Speaker 3>that it landed with a thud on the table. This

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<v Speaker 3>is a garbita. It just means folder in Spanish, but

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<v Speaker 3>in Puerto Rico its meaning has a lot more weight.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, so this is it's like a you know,

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<v Speaker 2>some normal like office Manila folder with some pages in it,

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<v Speaker 2>some handwritten notes, but in here is a page that

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<v Speaker 2>has basically a list of codes on the left and

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<v Speaker 2>a list of names on the right, and it's the

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<v Speaker 2>list of agents, informants, and other collaborators of the police.

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<v Speaker 3>A garbite is a surveillance record from an illegal government

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<v Speaker 3>program that tracked Puerto Rico's independence movement, which for over

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<v Speaker 3>a century has fought for the island to leave control

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<v Speaker 3>of the United States. There have been attempts to suppress

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<v Speaker 3>the movement since the beginning in the fifties. For example,

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<v Speaker 3>you could be jailed for flying a Puerto Rican flag.

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<v Speaker 3>The files from this surveillance per date from the nineteen

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<v Speaker 3>forties to the eighties. It was carried out by a

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<v Speaker 3>secret police division that tracked over one hundred and fifty

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<v Speaker 3>thousand people and created extensive files on JESHI of sixteen thousand.

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<v Speaker 3>Chris has spent a lot of time with these garbeitas

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<v Speaker 3>he's a photographer and six years ago he started documenting

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<v Speaker 3>these massive stacks and the people whose lives they catalog.

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<v Speaker 2>And on the left you have their code names. The agent,

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<v Speaker 2>being like a paid member of the police force, tasks

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<v Speaker 2>with infiltrating a group and informants that were simply submitting

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<v Speaker 2>information to the cops.

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<v Speaker 3>Most of these records were compiled by local police officers,

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<v Speaker 3>but the effort relied on Puerto Ricans informing on each other.

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<v Speaker 3>The FBI closely collaborated with the Police Intelligence Division, routinely

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<v Speaker 3>mining the garbitas for information, as well as compiling their

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<v Speaker 3>own files on independentiitas. The files reveal a web of

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<v Speaker 3>constant vigilance.

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<v Speaker 2>Chris read some of the reports out loud. An eighteenth

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<v Speaker 2>of September nineteen sixty seven, nine thirty in the morning,

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<v Speaker 2>the check was done on his residence, but the target

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't seen.

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<v Speaker 3>Time. Eleven in the morning, contact was made with the

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<v Speaker 3>informant on Madrid Street in Rio Piires. Twelve thirty in

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<v Speaker 3>the afternoon, he was seen by the informant from the

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<v Speaker 3>soda fountain in front of the.

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<v Speaker 2>University Raaerente arauberre time from mantel.

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<v Speaker 3>There were informants everywhere. The neighbor the soda fountain, dude.

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<v Speaker 3>But the information is totally banal. It's just day to

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<v Speaker 3>day life. Chris says, that's part of what's so chilling.

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<v Speaker 3>The surveillance program in Puerto Rico was one of, if

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<v Speaker 3>not the longest, continuous targeted surveillance program conducted on US

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<v Speaker 3>citizens by their own government. For Chris, one of the

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<v Speaker 3>worst things about the program was that it relied on

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<v Speaker 3>Puerto Ricans spying on each other for the cops, with

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<v Speaker 3>betrayals happening within families and among friends. The history of

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<v Speaker 3>surveillance is so embedded in the Puerto Rican consciousness that

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<v Speaker 3>it has its own verb to carbetier, to folder someone

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<v Speaker 3>or be folded. Growing up in Puerto Rico, Chris heard

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<v Speaker 3>it all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to be a foot journalist, so I would

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<v Speaker 2>go out to protests and I would take pictures, and

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<v Speaker 2>my mom would always sort of tell me, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>be careful. You know that macarpethia. They're going to like,

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<v Speaker 2>they're going to create a file on you.

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<v Speaker 3>When your mom would say, what did you think? Was

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<v Speaker 3>it like rolling your eyes? Oh mom, come on, not

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<v Speaker 3>really or was it in any way real for you?

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<v Speaker 4>No?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, yeah it was. It was the boogeyman.

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<v Speaker 3>The very idea of being watched in Puerto Rico was

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<v Speaker 3>kind of a cuco. That's how we say boogeyman in Spanish.

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<v Speaker 3>Something there lurking just out of sight withou cuco or

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<v Speaker 3>not there at all. Just in your genation, you're paranoia.

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<v Speaker 3>A story to scare the kids, a story to scare everyone.

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<v Speaker 3>Chris takes it from here.

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<v Speaker 2>In the course of my photo project about Ascarpeta's, I

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<v Speaker 2>became interested in one particular portrayal when they got me

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<v Speaker 2>thinking about what the effects of surveillance are on society,

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<v Speaker 2>the wounds it leaves. So let's start the story here

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<v Speaker 2>with Nestor Nasario. Nestor has his scarpetta. A lot of

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<v Speaker 2>people have their files. Actually more on that later, but

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<v Speaker 2>he told me that his adds up to eighteen hundred pages.

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<v Speaker 2>Super His mother's file is even larger. He also has

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<v Speaker 2>his father's. Storing them all requires a lot of space.

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<v Speaker 2>Nestor's is deep in a closet in his house. Last

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<v Speaker 2>time I asked to see them, he told me it

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<v Speaker 2>would take a couple of days to find them all.

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<v Speaker 4>Then a Mariaco at temple.

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<v Speaker 2>They yellow with age, he says. Nestor is a retired

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<v Speaker 2>academic researcher in economics and a lifelong activist for Puerto

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<v Speaker 2>Rican independence. In fact, he was raised in a family

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<v Speaker 2>of independence activists. His mother is Brian known as Pupa.

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<v Speaker 2>She co founded the Momento Independencia or the pro independence

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<v Speaker 2>movement in Nessor's childhood home in Mais in nineteen fifty nine.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a coalition between all the political parties and

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<v Speaker 2>organizations advocating for independence at the time, and its creation

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<v Speaker 2>marked a renewed struggle for sovereignty in the sixties and seventies.

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<v Speaker 4>That the Vian home import can be parre.

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<v Speaker 2>Big tim undercover police would be parked outside their house

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<v Speaker 2>in eight hour shifts. Growing up in Independentista household, Nestor

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<v Speaker 2>got an early start in his own political activism. Even

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<v Speaker 2>in high school, he and some friends organized a pro

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<v Speaker 2>independence group. Then in college at the University of Puerto

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<v Speaker 2>Rico and San Juan, they would join LAFUPI, which stands

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<v Speaker 2>for the Federation of Pro Independence University Students. The university

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<v Speaker 2>and surrounding area of Rio Peiras during that time was

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<v Speaker 2>and in many ways still is ground zero for the

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<v Speaker 2>independence movement and the student group the FUPIE was at

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<v Speaker 2>the center of it all. The FUPI became a place

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<v Speaker 2>where real friendships formed, like minded students bonded beyond politics

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<v Speaker 2>and what they call lalucha or the struggle made He

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<v Speaker 2>and his friends would advocate for Independence, giving out flyers,

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<v Speaker 2>organizing protests, but they'd also go bowling together. I mean

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<v Speaker 2>they were teenagers after all. Mister became close with a

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<v Speaker 2>fellow student who was also a part of the FUPIE

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<v Speaker 2>organizing committee and a spokesperson for the group.

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<v Speaker 5>His name was William Tabia Equane.

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<v Speaker 2>Nestor describes William as being friendly. He was always telling

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<v Speaker 2>stories and jokes. He was really easy to get along with.

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<v Speaker 2>He and Nestor led a creative protest they called Operaci

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<v Speaker 2>and Bandea, Operation Lunch Trade. They would load up their

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<v Speaker 2>trades with food and just leave them at the checkout

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<v Speaker 2>counter as a way to fight back against a price

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<v Speaker 2>hike in the student cafeteria. Almost always the group of

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<v Speaker 2>friends either left from or ended up at Nestor's house.

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<v Speaker 2>It was like the unofficial clubhouse. Friends like William even

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<v Speaker 2>became like family in the process and became very involved

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<v Speaker 2>in helping BUPA with the official business of the pro

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<v Speaker 2>independence movement. The constant surveillance that the group of friends

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<v Speaker 2>experienced was something that they were used to at that point.

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<v Speaker 2>Nicola Sandreo was also among Nestor's college friends. They also

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<v Speaker 2>went to high school together and Nicolas's father co founded

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<v Speaker 2>a pron dapendens newspaper called Plaidad. Nicolas remembers tagging along

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<v Speaker 2>with his dad to speaking engagements at hotels across the island.

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<v Speaker 2>Police used to write down the names of everybody attending

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<v Speaker 2>these events on green index cards. If an individual had

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<v Speaker 2>four of these cards, then they'd get their own carpeta.

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<v Speaker 2>Hundreds of thousands of people were cataloged this way, and

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes the surveillance was surreal. One neighbor told the cops

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<v Speaker 2>that his family was communicating with Soviet submarines over the radio.

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<v Speaker 2>So they said that because his grandmother had a short

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<v Speaker 2>wave Phillips radio that she listened to the BBC from

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<v Speaker 2>London on When the police came and inspected, they can

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<v Speaker 2>find any antenna, and at the university there were informants everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Almost every foopie meeting was documented in the carpetas Nico

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<v Speaker 2>told me that if you were a student like him

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<v Speaker 2>at the time, the police would visit your teachers, they

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<v Speaker 2>would even visit your neighbors and tell them this person

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<v Speaker 2>is dangerous, this person is subversive, and you'd get ostracized

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<v Speaker 2>by those around you. Association with the independence movement would

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<v Speaker 2>usually prevent you from getting a job, and if you

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<v Speaker 2>had a job, it could get you fired. The idea

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<v Speaker 2>of Puerto Rican independence has always been portrayed by the

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<v Speaker 2>local and US governments as its own kind of cuco,

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<v Speaker 2>a boogeyman. Depend Independence was something to be feared, authority said,

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<v Speaker 2>and would be plunged into unimaginable poverty without the financial

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<v Speaker 2>support of the States. The US had a serious interest

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<v Speaker 2>in keeping Puerto Rico under its control. It was home

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<v Speaker 2>to one of the Navy's largest bases, and US companies

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<v Speaker 2>were flocking to the island for cheap labor and to

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<v Speaker 2>enjoy tax incentives. In nineteen sixty one, FBI Director Jayed

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<v Speaker 2>Garhover sent a memo to his agents in San Juan

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<v Speaker 2>about why it was important to disrupt the activities of

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<v Speaker 2>the independence movement. Quote we must have information concerning their weaknesses, morals,

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<v Speaker 2>criminal records, spouses, children, family life, and personal activities other

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<v Speaker 2>than independence activities end quote. This was the middle of

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<v Speaker 2>the Cold War, where hysteria about a communist takeover was

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<v Speaker 2>rampant in the United States. The government was afraid of

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<v Speaker 2>exactly that kind of revolutionary sentiment, and it was simmering

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<v Speaker 2>in Puerto Rico amongst Independentistas. The movement had been repressed

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<v Speaker 2>since its inception, often violently, and so while the struggle

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<v Speaker 2>for independence was largely fought through legitimate political means, some

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<v Speaker 2>groups responded to government persecution with violence of their own.

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<v Speaker 2>These groups often set off bombs on the island and

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<v Speaker 2>in the States. In many cases, these bombs were timed

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<v Speaker 2>to only harm property to send a message in response

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<v Speaker 2>to government actions that the groups opposed. In some cases,

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<v Speaker 2>though there were both civilian and military casualties. On the

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<v Speaker 2>other hand, the government was implicated in various extra judicial

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<v Speaker 2>killings of activists. In nineteen sixty two, a bomb went

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<v Speaker 2>off and the pharmacy Nestor's father owned and tuning the Pandistas,

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<v Speaker 2>were killed. Nestor remembers it vividly how there was blood

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<v Speaker 2>on the walls yare. Officials said his parents were building

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<v Speaker 2>bombs for the movement and when exploded by accident, but

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<v Speaker 2>Nestor's family maintains that an undercover police officer had planted

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<v Speaker 2>the bomb. No one was ever convicted for the explosion,

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<v Speaker 2>and to this day the facts about this and so

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<v Speaker 2>much else during this time are unclear. And the reason

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<v Speaker 2>I'm telling you. All of this is to underscore that

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<v Speaker 2>revolutionary groups did exist and they had ties to political groups,

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<v Speaker 2>including the one. Nessor's family found it. But this surveillance

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<v Speaker 2>overwhelmingly cracked down on folks who supported peaceful protest, not violence.

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<v Speaker 2>But back to Nestor and the student organization he was

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<v Speaker 2>a part of the FUPIE. In the late nineteen sixties,

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<v Speaker 2>the biggest rift on campus was between the FUPIE and

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<v Speaker 2>the US Army Reserve Officer Training Corps the ROTC, which

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<v Speaker 2>recruited on campus for the Vietnam War. For the FUPIE,

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<v Speaker 2>the idea of Puerto Rican bodies returning from a war

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<v Speaker 2>waged by the United States on the other side of

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<v Speaker 2>the world was difficult to stomach, so Nestor, William and

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<v Speaker 2>the rest of the FUPIE called for protests to oust

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<v Speaker 2>the rot from campus so.

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<v Speaker 6>There is no tension on the island because people know

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<v Speaker 6>that the trouble, which has been brewing for some time,

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<v Speaker 6>lies deeper than the ROTC.

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<v Speaker 2>These protests were some of the most intense in the

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<v Speaker 2>history of the University of Puerto Rico.

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<v Speaker 6>The violence also spread to a business section of San Juan.

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<v Speaker 6>Students broke windows, there was some looting, but only stores

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<v Speaker 6>owned by state side companies were vandalized.

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<v Speaker 2>The night after the.

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<v Speaker 6>Fighting, several homes displaying pro independence flags or symbols were burned.

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<v Speaker 2>In those years, many students were arrested and expelled for protesting,

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<v Speaker 2>including Nestor and William. They fought the decision in one

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<v Speaker 2>years later, but others weren't able to return to their studies.

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<v Speaker 2>The Fupie did get their OTC and the police banned

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<v Speaker 2>from the university. It was a victory, at least on campus,

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<v Speaker 2>but in the end it costs lives. Over the course

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<v Speaker 2>of two years, two students, one of them a cadet,

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<v Speaker 2>two police officers, and one civilian were killed in the clashes.

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<v Speaker 2>Aqua Nesser says that while it might seem ridiculous now,

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<v Speaker 2>he and other students in the movement felt like the

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<v Speaker 2>revolution was just around the corner.

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<v Speaker 4>Afia Afer Cambrio A.

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<v Speaker 2>The world seemed to be changing, turning towards the left,

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<v Speaker 2>towards socialism, and that's because it actually was just the

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<v Speaker 2>stones throw away. In Cuba, in nineteen sixty nine, a

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<v Speaker 2>group of Foopie students were invited by the Cuban government

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<v Speaker 2>to come see what revolution looked like for themselves a

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<v Speaker 2>that's Nico again. The delegation was twenty strong, including Nestor

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<v Speaker 2>and William Tabia, but Cuba was a difficult place to

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<v Speaker 2>visit as a US citizen. Because of the embargo, direct

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<v Speaker 2>flights to Cuba weren't permitted, so they had to go

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<v Speaker 2>first to New York and then take a bus to

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<v Speaker 2>Canada and then board a livestock ship to Cuba. Nestor

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<v Speaker 2>says they were there for a month and a half,

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<v Speaker 2>just traveling the island and getting to know Cuba well.

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<v Speaker 4>If I might be go behind, the.

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<v Speaker 2>Trip cemented the bonds of friendship between the young activists.

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<v Speaker 2>Nestor didn't necessarily know it, but after Cuba, and over

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<v Speaker 2>the course of the seventies, as he took a job

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<v Speaker 2>at the university and continued to be an active member

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<v Speaker 2>of the movement, his garbeta continued to grow. He might

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<v Speaker 2>have never learned his Garbetta even existed if it weren't

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<v Speaker 2>for the events that took place on a mountaintop in

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<v Speaker 2>the center of the island in the late seventies. What

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<v Speaker 2>happened in Serra Maravillat changed the course of Puerto Rican

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<v Speaker 2>history and ultimately led to the demise of the secret police.

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<v Speaker 2>What happened is this. In nineteen seventy eight, an undercover

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<v Speaker 2>police agent befriended two university students active in the FUPI.

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<v Speaker 2>The agent had been recruited by police when he was

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<v Speaker 2>just fifteen and infiltrated independence groups all throughout high school

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<v Speaker 2>and college. To seem like a hard COREGN dipendentista. He

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<v Speaker 2>convinced the two students to go with him to blow

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<v Speaker 2>up a radio tower on Seto Mount Avia with materials

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<v Speaker 2>that he would provide. It made national news. Sixty Minutes

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<v Speaker 2>covered it.

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<v Speaker 6>July twenty fifth, nineteen seventy eight, marked the eightieth anniversary

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<v Speaker 6>of the US invasion of Puerto Rico.

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<v Speaker 2>When they got to the radio tower, a group of

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<v Speaker 2>ten officers ambushed the two students and killed them.

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<v Speaker 6>Rosanno and Soto had been murdered, shot on their knees

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<v Speaker 6>as they begged for mercy.

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<v Speaker 2>The Puerto Rican government, backed by the FBI, said that

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<v Speaker 2>the students were terrorists planning to blow up the facility.

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<v Speaker 2>They claimed that the police were defending themselves in shooting them.

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<v Speaker 6>In fact, there was no clear evidence that they were

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<v Speaker 6>terrorists and there's no evidence at all that when they

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<v Speaker 6>went up there they were want to blow up communications towers.

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<v Speaker 3>They had no explosives with them, and they.

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<v Speaker 2>Could have done it. This all led to a scandal

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<v Speaker 2>that exposed a massive cover up by both the Puerto

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<v Speaker 2>Rican government and the FBI. There were years of televised

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<v Speaker 2>trials and investigations that slowly unraveled the story of what

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<v Speaker 2>really happened. The undercover agent was eventually acquitted on a

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<v Speaker 2>lesser charge after testifying against other police officers involved in

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<v Speaker 2>the murder. But two months after his acquittal, he was assassinated.

286
00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:29.679
<v Speaker 2>Anita Bernentista group took credit, though some speculate it was

287
00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:35.600
<v Speaker 2>actually retaliation by fellow police officers for snitching on them.

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<v Speaker 2>But why am I telling you all of this? Because

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00:18:40.040 --> 00:18:43.960
<v Speaker 2>this scandal sparked so much outrage that it was what

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00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:48.160
<v Speaker 2>led to the revelation that there was secret surveillance happening

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<v Speaker 2>at all. In nineteen eighty seven, during a heated discussion

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00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:54.159
<v Speaker 2>on a talk radio program about the settlement of a

293
00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:59.520
<v Speaker 2>Ya murders, a police officer inadvertently spilt the beans. Everybody

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00:18:59.560 --> 00:19:01.879
<v Speaker 2>knows that they're files on the independent these Thus he said,

295
00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:05.360
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, what had been dismissed for decades

296
00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:09.479
<v Speaker 2>as paranoia as a cuco within independence circles, turned out

297
00:19:09.520 --> 00:19:19.400
<v Speaker 2>to be very real. There really were informants everywhere. When

298
00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:21.720
<v Speaker 2>the surveillance program came to light, it at least a

299
00:19:21.800 --> 00:19:24.880
<v Speaker 2>debate over what to do with the files. That's garbadas

300
00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:28.360
<v Speaker 2>the government wanted to destroy them, but the courts did

301
00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:31.959
<v Speaker 2>something unprecedented. They said the files should be saved and

302
00:19:32.040 --> 00:19:35.320
<v Speaker 2>returned to those who had been watched, return as their property.

303
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<v Speaker 2>It's the only such case in the world of original

304
00:19:38.520 --> 00:19:42.640
<v Speaker 2>surveillance files being returned directly to victims that could.

305
00:19:45.760 --> 00:19:46.760
<v Speaker 4>Stay u Filano.

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00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:50.160
<v Speaker 2>So you have the pas of two or twice Liso.

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00:19:51.280 --> 00:19:53.520
<v Speaker 2>That's a news report from nineteen ninety two when a

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00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:56.320
<v Speaker 2>judge in Puerto Rico ruled that the surveillance had infringed

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00:19:56.320 --> 00:19:59.000
<v Speaker 2>on the constitutional rights of those in the independence movement,

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<v Speaker 2>and he ordered the names of the police informants involved

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<v Speaker 2>in the program also be released. When the victims of

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00:20:07.280 --> 00:20:10.360
<v Speaker 2>surveillance were finally given their files in the early nineties,

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00:20:10.600 --> 00:20:15.320
<v Speaker 2>to their surprise, the documents were completely unredacted published whole.

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00:20:17.320 --> 00:20:21.320
<v Speaker 2>The files were an encyclopedia of betrayal, in some cases

315
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:27.400
<v Speaker 2>documenting decades of deceit and relationships under false pretenses. As

316
00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:29.560
<v Speaker 2>they read them, people found out that many of the

317
00:20:29.600 --> 00:20:33.520
<v Speaker 2>reports had been filed not by strangers, but instead those

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00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:36.560
<v Speaker 2>closest to them. And what Nestor and his group of

319
00:20:36.560 --> 00:20:44.520
<v Speaker 2>friends found out would be devastating for starters about that

320
00:20:44.600 --> 00:20:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Cuba trip.

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00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:51.240
<v Speaker 4>And Binde, dos Hint and Kubielto.

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<v Speaker 2>Of the group of twenty who went, two were undercover informants.

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<v Speaker 2>Nesser's friend Nico was the first in their group to

324
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:02.240
<v Speaker 2>get the Dakota list of informants from his carpeta. He

325
00:21:02.320 --> 00:21:08.040
<v Speaker 2>recognized the name Jim, someone who was close to Nesta

326
00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:10.120
<v Speaker 2>and Pupa practically family.

327
00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:19.359
<v Speaker 4>Here's Nestor casso avea persona.

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<v Speaker 2>Someone who was a Fopie member who shared so much

329
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:24.159
<v Speaker 2>with them and yet was an agent.

330
00:21:25.560 --> 00:21:26.439
<v Speaker 4>He com.

331
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:35.480
<v Speaker 2>He this person had filed fifty four reports against Nestor

332
00:21:37.080 --> 00:21:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Ganas a PERSONA William Tapia.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, William Tapia.

334
00:21:47.840 --> 00:21:52.880
<v Speaker 2>William Tapia, the easy going, funny friend, the FUPIE spokesperson

335
00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:56.199
<v Speaker 2>who was arrested with Nestor for protesting the rotc who

336
00:21:56.280 --> 00:21:58.800
<v Speaker 2>went to Cuba, who was a part of the struggle.

337
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:05.480
<v Speaker 2>That William Tapia.

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<v Speaker 3>When we come back the search for an informant. This

339
00:22:11.840 --> 00:22:26.000
<v Speaker 3>is La Brega, and we're back to La Brega. When

340
00:22:26.040 --> 00:22:28.800
<v Speaker 3>we left off, Nestor Nasario Trabal just learned that one

341
00:22:28.840 --> 00:22:31.520
<v Speaker 3>of his close friends from the Puerto Rican Independence movement,

342
00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:36.520
<v Speaker 3>William Tapia, was actually collaborating with the secret Police. Chris

343
00:22:36.560 --> 00:22:38.360
<v Speaker 3>Gregory Rivera picks it up from here.

344
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<v Speaker 2>In an interview in twenty sixteen, Nestor's mom told me

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<v Speaker 2>how close she was with William Tapia. I loved him

346
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<v Speaker 2>like a son. There was a time when her husband,

347
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.520
<v Speaker 2>Nessa's father was in the hospital. Tapia stayed with him overnight.

348
00:22:58.840 --> 00:23:06.080
<v Speaker 2>William Bupa says she gave William his first car. She

349
00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:08.439
<v Speaker 2>was a bridesmaid at his wedding. She took care of

350
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:10.920
<v Speaker 2>his first son while he worked and his wife studied.

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<v Speaker 2>And so when she first learned that Tapia had been

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<v Speaker 2>an informant her son Nestor says, she took it really hard.

353
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<v Speaker 2>She refused to believe it. Pupa later said that she

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to believe that Tapia would never hurt her, would

355
00:23:25.560 --> 00:23:30.600
<v Speaker 2>never betray her, because she was so good to him.

356
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<v Speaker 2>I had been hearing William Tapia's name from the subjects

357
00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:36.280
<v Speaker 2>I photographed for years. He was a visible figure in

358
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<v Speaker 2>the independence movement. When the files came out, Gladidra, a

359
00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:43.719
<v Speaker 2>pro independence newspaper on the island, published the famous Erista Dechotas,

360
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<v Speaker 2>or List of Snitches. Each week they would profile one

361
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<v Speaker 2>of the informants discovered from the files. Dapia got his

362
00:23:51.920 --> 00:24:00.000
<v Speaker 2>own quarter page. Bupa has been pretty public about when

363
00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:03.240
<v Speaker 2>Tabia he comes up in her memoirs. She spoke about

364
00:24:03.280 --> 00:24:05.919
<v Speaker 2>him in a documentary too. She came to believe that

365
00:24:05.960 --> 00:24:08.760
<v Speaker 2>he was more than a mere informant, but an undercover

366
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:12.159
<v Speaker 2>agent assigned to infiltrate her family and gain her trust.

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<v Speaker 2>For decades, Tapiah has been silent, although I had heard

368
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:19.720
<v Speaker 2>from sources that when the newspaper list was first published,

369
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:22.119
<v Speaker 2>he sent a letter to the editor trying to clear

370
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<v Speaker 2>his name. I have had questions about William that have

371
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:30.560
<v Speaker 2>been lingering for years now. What was his involvement exactly

372
00:24:31.760 --> 00:24:34.480
<v Speaker 2>if he was an informant, why did he collaborate with

373
00:24:34.520 --> 00:24:40.320
<v Speaker 2>the police, How did he defend his actions or did

374
00:24:40.320 --> 00:24:43.000
<v Speaker 2>he dispute the story the independence movement had told about

375
00:24:43.040 --> 00:24:49.439
<v Speaker 2>him for decades. Alana and I decided to look for

376
00:24:49.520 --> 00:24:51.880
<v Speaker 2>him and we found a social media profile.

377
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<v Speaker 3>Do you have the link?

378
00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:54.040
<v Speaker 2>Candy?

379
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:56.280
<v Speaker 3>The question is is this the right guy?

380
00:24:56.760 --> 00:25:00.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm in? It all checks out. He was sharing messages

381
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:03.080
<v Speaker 2>critical of the physical Control Board in Puerto Rico and

382
00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:06.920
<v Speaker 2>supportive of independence, along with family pictures and prayers.

383
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:09.800
<v Speaker 3>Does it mean anything to you that he's just hanging

384
00:25:09.840 --> 00:25:10.200
<v Speaker 3>out here.

385
00:25:10.520 --> 00:25:14.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it makes me feel like he's obviously somebody's father

386
00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:17.480
<v Speaker 2>and husband and all of these things. You have the

387
00:25:17.560 --> 00:25:23.120
<v Speaker 2>perspective of somebody who feels like they were wronged by

388
00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:26.320
<v Speaker 2>this person, or was betrayed perhaps, But you look at

389
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:28.879
<v Speaker 2>his face of a page. Now he's sharing, you know,

390
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:31.200
<v Speaker 2>like the weird stuff that your parents share, like these,

391
00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:35.960
<v Speaker 2>like inspirational messages. It turned out Tapia was living in

392
00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:42.200
<v Speaker 2>Puerto Rico, so I told him I wanted to talk

393
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:46.000
<v Speaker 2>to him about his involvement within the Pendentistas. He didn't

394
00:25:46.040 --> 00:25:48.560
<v Speaker 2>agree to have our calls recorded, but he did agree

395
00:25:48.560 --> 00:25:52.320
<v Speaker 2>to meet so Lula William. He told me all about

396
00:25:52.320 --> 00:25:55.240
<v Speaker 2>a nonprofit he started that digs wells in rural communities

397
00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:57.520
<v Speaker 2>on the island so they can have ready access to water.

398
00:25:58.760 --> 00:26:01.359
<v Speaker 2>The years of militancy and the independence movement, he said,

399
00:26:01.600 --> 00:26:04.760
<v Speaker 2>were formative to his work and life now, and he

400
00:26:04.800 --> 00:26:07.480
<v Speaker 2>invited me to come check out his project and to

401
00:26:07.560 --> 00:26:21.480
<v Speaker 2>talk about his time in the movement. And I see

402
00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:25.320
<v Speaker 2>you and William Dabin We pulled over at a roadside restaurant.

403
00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:28.120
<v Speaker 2>It was so early in the morning that it was closed.

404
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:31.639
<v Speaker 2>He jumped out of Alexis suv to greet us. I

405
00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:35.040
<v Speaker 2>bought it used, he reassured us later. Dapia has about

406
00:26:35.040 --> 00:26:38.920
<v Speaker 2>five foot seven, gregarious and tan. We first talked about

407
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:41.400
<v Speaker 2>water witching, a practice where people claim to be able

408
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.000
<v Speaker 2>to divine where to find underground water. Turns out he

409
00:26:45.080 --> 00:26:48.399
<v Speaker 2>witches for water to dig the wells. He gave me

410
00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:51.840
<v Speaker 2>a demonstration right there in the parking lot. I have

411
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:54.040
<v Speaker 2>to say I was taken aback by the fact that

412
00:26:54.080 --> 00:26:56.240
<v Speaker 2>the person I had heard and read so much about

413
00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:01.200
<v Speaker 2>was in front of me. Daby A declined to record

414
00:27:01.240 --> 00:27:03.520
<v Speaker 2>an interview, but as I was heading home from spending

415
00:27:03.560 --> 00:27:06.399
<v Speaker 2>time with him that day, I called Ilana how to go?

416
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:12.280
<v Speaker 2>It went well? I mean, I don't know if well

417
00:27:12.760 --> 00:27:16.560
<v Speaker 2>is the word. I don't know if I was expecting

418
00:27:16.560 --> 00:27:19.440
<v Speaker 2>the answer that he gave us, and we asked him

419
00:27:19.840 --> 00:27:33.120
<v Speaker 2>about all of it. Dab I sached and I spent

420
00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:35.720
<v Speaker 2>that entire day criss crossing the mountains in the center

421
00:27:35.760 --> 00:27:38.040
<v Speaker 2>of the island, looking at these community wells that he's

422
00:27:38.080 --> 00:27:41.800
<v Speaker 2>helping install. Over a coffee and banalie at one point,

423
00:27:41.800 --> 00:27:44.600
<v Speaker 2>at a roadside Kiosk, he opened up about his upbringing

424
00:27:44.600 --> 00:27:47.320
<v Speaker 2>in a working class neighborhood of San Juan. He went

425
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:50.239
<v Speaker 2>to a Catholic school run by Spanish priests who had

426
00:27:50.280 --> 00:27:54.560
<v Speaker 2>fled political persecution in Spain. They were the first to

427
00:27:54.600 --> 00:27:58.160
<v Speaker 2>introduce him to radical politics, urging him to attend Communist

428
00:27:58.160 --> 00:28:01.879
<v Speaker 2>party meetings and discuss the ideas with them. His family, though,

429
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:06.399
<v Speaker 2>was very conservative and pro statehood. His father had a

430
00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:09.920
<v Speaker 2>fifty first state bumper sticker on his car. He also

431
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:13.160
<v Speaker 2>opened up about his frustrations with the independence movement, how

432
00:28:13.160 --> 00:28:16.320
<v Speaker 2>he wanted to double down on grassroots activism while others

433
00:28:16.320 --> 00:28:19.760
<v Speaker 2>were more engaged in theory and politics. To him, the

434
00:28:19.800 --> 00:28:23.320
<v Speaker 2>movement was too hung up on convoluted intellectual ideas. That's

435
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:26.040
<v Speaker 2>why he says he's digging wells today instead of sitting

436
00:28:26.040 --> 00:28:29.800
<v Speaker 2>around and theorizing. He told me about this one time

437
00:28:30.320 --> 00:28:32.680
<v Speaker 2>back when he was a member of the FUPI, where

438
00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:36.040
<v Speaker 2>most of the meeting was spent discussing the philosophy around

439
00:28:36.040 --> 00:28:48.239
<v Speaker 2>the perfect placement of loudspeakers for speeches. Eventually at the

440
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:50.800
<v Speaker 2>top of a mountain with views of the entire north

441
00:28:50.840 --> 00:28:53.240
<v Speaker 2>side of the island. I got the courage to ask

442
00:28:53.320 --> 00:28:57.160
<v Speaker 2>him about his time being an informant. I knew you

443
00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:00.360
<v Speaker 2>were going to ask me about that, he said. Said

444
00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:10.360
<v Speaker 2>it was true, but that he had only been an

445
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:13.880
<v Speaker 2>informant for about a year during college and stopped after

446
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:17.400
<v Speaker 2>the trip to Cuba with Nestor and Nico. He also

447
00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:20.120
<v Speaker 2>said that the allegations that he got close to Poupa

448
00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:23.080
<v Speaker 2>for information and that he was a paid agent assigned

449
00:29:23.120 --> 00:29:27.120
<v Speaker 2>to her were also false, and on top of that,

450
00:29:27.120 --> 00:29:29.720
<v Speaker 2>that he didn't inform for money or because he wanted

451
00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:32.280
<v Speaker 2>to hurt the cause, but because he actually saw an

452
00:29:32.280 --> 00:29:36.520
<v Speaker 2>opportunity to help the movement. A relative who was an

453
00:29:36.560 --> 00:29:39.880
<v Speaker 2>officer in the intelligence division had asked him to file

454
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:44.280
<v Speaker 2>reports Sanni dependentist. Thus, according to him, he then went

455
00:29:44.320 --> 00:29:46.800
<v Speaker 2>to Manuel de jot A Gonzalez, who was the then

456
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:50.720
<v Speaker 2>president of the FUPIE, and hatched a plan. He would

457
00:29:50.760 --> 00:29:54.360
<v Speaker 2>become an informant and feed the cops harmless information to

458
00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:58.160
<v Speaker 2>see if they could get valuable information. To return, he

459
00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:05.680
<v Speaker 2>would become a double agent. Typically informants like him were

460
00:30:05.720 --> 00:30:08.800
<v Speaker 2>either coursed or paid, but he maintains that he never

461
00:30:08.840 --> 00:30:15.800
<v Speaker 2>took any money. William says dos at the beginning of

462
00:30:15.800 --> 00:30:17.840
<v Speaker 2>this episode, as Again and I were in manuel Le

463
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:21.880
<v Speaker 2>Rota Gonzadas's office looking at his carpeta. We were trying

464
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:24.600
<v Speaker 2>to confirm Dapia's timeline that he had only been an

465
00:30:24.600 --> 00:30:28.080
<v Speaker 2>informant for about a year. From these files, at least,

466
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:30.880
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't seem to be the decades long collaboration with

467
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:33.720
<v Speaker 2>the cops that the movement has alleged. But the files

468
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:35.960
<v Speaker 2>don't reveal anything about William's claim that he was a

469
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:39.760
<v Speaker 2>double agent. So I asked Manuel Jrota Gonsadez about that.

470
00:30:40.560 --> 00:30:48.920
<v Speaker 2>That's the feel good Oh yeah, he told me. Obviously

471
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:52.040
<v Speaker 2>it's a lie that he never directed William to infiltrate

472
00:30:52.080 --> 00:30:55.640
<v Speaker 2>the police. And as for that supposedly harmless information that

473
00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:58.160
<v Speaker 2>he fed the cops, Nesser says that one of the

474
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:01.400
<v Speaker 2>most damning reports in his carpetta was in fact provided

475
00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:05.320
<v Speaker 2>by William. Nestor was briefly declared a fugitive for leaving

476
00:31:05.320 --> 00:31:07.760
<v Speaker 2>the island to cool off when he faced charges linked

477
00:31:07.760 --> 00:31:11.640
<v Speaker 2>to the ROTC protests. He says William gave up his whereabouts,

478
00:31:12.040 --> 00:31:15.160
<v Speaker 2>which could have landed Nestor in jail. William told me

479
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:19.239
<v Speaker 2>that Nestor's whereabouts were public knowledge at the time. Later on,

480
00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:22.360
<v Speaker 2>Dabia was convicted in connection with the bomb planted by

481
00:31:22.360 --> 00:31:25.480
<v Speaker 2>the movement in a federal building in nineteen seventy one.

482
00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:28.560
<v Speaker 2>His arrests made front page news, and the movement rallied

483
00:31:28.560 --> 00:31:31.760
<v Speaker 2>for his release. He spent seven years fighting the charges

484
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:36.560
<v Speaker 2>and was convicted anyway, but he never actually served his

485
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:40.520
<v Speaker 2>sentence in prison. On the one hand, what kind of

486
00:31:40.520 --> 00:31:43.800
<v Speaker 2>police informant would go through seven years of appeals just

487
00:31:43.840 --> 00:31:47.280
<v Speaker 2>to end up convicted. But on the other hand, the

488
00:31:47.280 --> 00:31:49.120
<v Speaker 2>fact that he got out of going to prison for

489
00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:53.160
<v Speaker 2>serious criminal offenses seemed suspicious to many in the movement,

490
00:31:53.760 --> 00:31:56.240
<v Speaker 2>and they believe that it's all part of his cover

491
00:31:56.320 --> 00:32:03.720
<v Speaker 2>as an agent. Was William an informant or an agent

492
00:32:03.760 --> 00:32:07.640
<v Speaker 2>assigned to PUPA. Was he part of revolutionary forces or

493
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:11.560
<v Speaker 2>even independentista at all? Or was he just playing both

494
00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:15.400
<v Speaker 2>sides and got in over his head. You could argue

495
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:19.440
<v Speaker 2>that this confusion is part of a larger plan. Manuel

496
00:32:19.840 --> 00:32:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Gonzada says, all this surveillance wasn't done to uncover revolutionary groups.

497
00:32:28.320 --> 00:32:31.160
<v Speaker 2>It was done to destroy them, to turn them against

498
00:32:31.160 --> 00:32:48.320
<v Speaker 2>each other. Even collaborators were victims, he says. Also from

499
00:32:48.800 --> 00:32:57.880
<v Speaker 2>vo some were unremorseful, but others not so much. They

500
00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:03.320
<v Speaker 2>have to live carrying that weight on their content. Maybe

501
00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Dapia is one of them, he said, who knows. For

502
00:33:14.520 --> 00:33:17.600
<v Speaker 2>his part, Tapia says he feels just as betrayed by

503
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:21.560
<v Speaker 2>his friends as they feel betrayed by him. When the

504
00:33:21.600 --> 00:33:25.960
<v Speaker 2>garbetas came out and he proclaimed his innocence, nobody believed him.

505
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:28.920
<v Speaker 2>He felt like the movement turned their backs on him.

506
00:33:29.520 --> 00:33:31.560
<v Speaker 2>He told me. The way he sees it is that

507
00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:38.520
<v Speaker 2>he freed himself with the people that didn't truly know him.

508
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:42.640
<v Speaker 2>As for Nester, he isn't interested in hearing about or

509
00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:54.520
<v Speaker 2>from William ever familiar among family. It doesn't matter if

510
00:33:54.520 --> 00:33:59.360
<v Speaker 2>you have different views. You can share ideas, talk, argue,

511
00:34:00.120 --> 00:34:05.480
<v Speaker 2>take it. But the traders, people who betrayed you, that's

512
00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:17.239
<v Speaker 2>another thing. Is a Puerto Rican social and political psychologist

513
00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:20.600
<v Speaker 2>at NYU. He says that part of the reason it's

514
00:34:20.640 --> 00:34:23.280
<v Speaker 2>so hard to untangle what actually happened in this period

515
00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:25.960
<v Speaker 2>of history has to do with the way that carpetas

516
00:34:25.960 --> 00:34:29.960
<v Speaker 2>were returned. The government basically said, come get your file

517
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:32.359
<v Speaker 2>and deal with what happened on your own.

518
00:34:33.040 --> 00:34:38.959
<v Speaker 7>It led to individual process of reconciliation and remembering, which

519
00:34:39.200 --> 00:34:39.640
<v Speaker 7>led to.

520
00:34:41.560 --> 00:34:42.399
<v Speaker 4>A process of.

521
00:34:44.200 --> 00:34:47.319
<v Speaker 7>Forgetting in the collective sense of it.

522
00:34:48.080 --> 00:34:51.720
<v Speaker 2>There was never a collective process to understand what happened

523
00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:54.279
<v Speaker 2>like there was in East Germany or after many of

524
00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:58.279
<v Speaker 2>the South American dictatorships with similar secret police programs. And

525
00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:01.719
<v Speaker 2>there is no single place you can go to see

526
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:05.759
<v Speaker 2>all of the garbedas. Some are in people's closets and garages,

527
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:09.200
<v Speaker 2>the rest are in a poorly funded national archive. And

528
00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:12.680
<v Speaker 2>because there is no complete archive, there is no cohesive

529
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:15.759
<v Speaker 2>way to remember or interpret all of this history or

530
00:35:16.160 --> 00:35:20.200
<v Speaker 2>definitively understand the roles of people like Tapia and others

531
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:23.680
<v Speaker 2>who are involved. But it's not like a national reckoning.

532
00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:28.400
<v Speaker 2>Isn't possible or hasn't happened before. In Puerto Rico, Serro Maravilla,

533
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:31.200
<v Speaker 2>where the two students were murdered, is more widely known

534
00:35:31.200 --> 00:35:31.920
<v Speaker 2>and understood.

535
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:33.520
<v Speaker 4>I don't think we're there.

536
00:35:33.600 --> 00:35:37.800
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, we lost garpetas because there was never a process

537
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:41.080
<v Speaker 7>like the one in Settra Madavia was the worst trials

538
00:35:41.120 --> 00:35:44.319
<v Speaker 7>after trials. In every instance of the news that was

539
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:45.520
<v Speaker 7>the main topic.

540
00:35:45.600 --> 00:35:50.520
<v Speaker 2>There was an actual national conversation. People couldn't not have

541
00:35:50.600 --> 00:35:55.160
<v Speaker 2>an opinion about it. But the garbetas are a different story.

542
00:35:55.400 --> 00:35:59.280
<v Speaker 2>They're seldom taught in school today, so many years later

543
00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:03.800
<v Speaker 2>they become a kind of folklore without garpetia, like my

544
00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:06.280
<v Speaker 2>mom used to warm me when I would go cover protests.

545
00:36:07.040 --> 00:36:10.759
<v Speaker 2>And even though Governor Perro Rosello formally outlawed carpetio of

546
00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:14.080
<v Speaker 2>any kind in nineteen ninety four, many of us still

547
00:36:14.080 --> 00:36:25.839
<v Speaker 2>believe deep down were being watched, and that threat came

548
00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:29.239
<v Speaker 2>back into sharper focus just last year when we learned

549
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:33.200
<v Speaker 2>of another example of authorities surveilling activists challenging the government.

550
00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:37.000
<v Speaker 2>A video of a student protest at the university had

551
00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:40.640
<v Speaker 2>been live streamed on Facebook. Puerto Rican police then got

552
00:36:40.680 --> 00:36:44.320
<v Speaker 2>personal information and messages from the more than five thousand

553
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:47.600
<v Speaker 2>people who had interacted with the student newspaper pages where

554
00:36:47.600 --> 00:36:52.400
<v Speaker 2>the video appeared. That led to criminal charges for seven

555
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:55.799
<v Speaker 2>of the students involved in the protest, which they've been

556
00:36:55.840 --> 00:37:02.120
<v Speaker 2>fighting in court since twenty seventeen. Protesters of this surveillance

557
00:37:02.160 --> 00:37:05.799
<v Speaker 2>have called it digital garbadeo, a stark reminder that this

558
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:12.440
<v Speaker 2>practice is not over the result of all of this

559
00:37:12.520 --> 00:37:16.160
<v Speaker 2>surveillance is the fear that was instilled in Puerto Ricans.

560
00:37:17.080 --> 00:37:20.680
<v Speaker 2>Fear of the government, fear of each other, fear of

561
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:27.719
<v Speaker 2>imagining an alternative political reality. Ultimately, the problem with surveillance

562
00:37:28.120 --> 00:37:31.960
<v Speaker 2>goes beyond the information that was collected. It's about how

563
00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:35.160
<v Speaker 2>you might conjure up the boogeyman, the gougle if you

564
00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:39.680
<v Speaker 2>dare express yourself freely, and maybe that's what the government

565
00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:44.400
<v Speaker 2>intended all along. Even though the Secret Police was disbanded

566
00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:48.080
<v Speaker 2>over thirty years ago, for many Puerto Ricans, that google

567
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:50.920
<v Speaker 2>that they unleashed still lives on.

568
00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:12.600
<v Speaker 3>Chris Gregory Rivera is a photographer from San Juan. If

569
00:38:12.600 --> 00:38:15.360
<v Speaker 3>you want to see Chris's photographs of Las Carbetas and

570
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:17.880
<v Speaker 3>photos the police took as part of their surveillance, you

571
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:21.520
<v Speaker 3>can head over to Chris Gregory dot co. That's dot co.

572
00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:27.280
<v Speaker 3>Laverega is a co production of WNYC Studios and Fuburo Studios.

573
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:30.840
<v Speaker 3>This episode is available in Spanish as well, and you

574
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:34.319
<v Speaker 3>can listen to either wherever you hear your podcasts through

575
00:38:34.600 --> 00:38:39.879
<v Speaker 3>Leaverega's podcast feed. This episode was produced by Esquirorigua Sandino

576
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:43.239
<v Speaker 3>and by me with help from Mark Pagan. It was

577
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:46.560
<v Speaker 3>edited by Marlon Bishop. Fact checking was by Istra Pacheco,

578
00:38:47.040 --> 00:38:51.960
<v Speaker 3>engineering by Stephanie Leveau, Lea Sha Damren, Rosanna Caban, Garrie

579
00:38:52.040 --> 00:38:56.319
<v Speaker 3>La Vais and Alicia ba Etube. Original music for Laverega

580
00:38:56.360 --> 00:39:00.120
<v Speaker 3>was composed by Balloon and our theme song is by EFE.

581
00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:04.360
<v Speaker 3>Art for this piece was done by Fernando Nora. Leadership

582
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:07.160
<v Speaker 3>support for La Brega is provided by the Jonathan Logan

583
00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:10.800
<v Speaker 3>Family Foundation and the john S and James L. Knight Foundation,

584
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:15.680
<v Speaker 3>with additional support provided by Amy Liss. Deep gratitude to

585
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:21.560
<v Speaker 3>Lucilla Risari, Joel Rivera Blanco, Mario rocce Osvaldo Rivera Soto,

586
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:28.480
<v Speaker 3>Charlie Glesias, Emily Botine, Adrian Florido, Rika Rodriguez, and Ilcia.

587
00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:35.200
<v Speaker 2>Latino USA is made possible in part by the chan

588
00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Zuckerberg Initiative, the Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the

589
00:39:40.640 --> 00:39:46.040
<v Speaker 2>front lines of social change worldwide, and funding for Latino

590
00:39:46.160 --> 00:39:49.040
<v Speaker 2>USA is. Coverage of a Culture of Health is made

591
00:39:49.120 --> 00:39:51.520
<v Speaker 2>possible in part by a grant from the Robert Wood

592
00:39:51.600 --> 00:39:52.520
<v Speaker 2>Johnson Foundation.