WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:04.120 Dear listener, we begin today in the fall of two 2 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:07.800 thousand and one. We start with a precocious seven year 3 00:00:07.840 --> 00:00:13.200 old boy named Alejandro Erevia. He's living with his grandparents 4 00:00:13.480 --> 00:00:17.439 in the Dominican Republic. For years, Alejandro heard from the 5 00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:20.800 adults all around him that one day his parents would 6 00:00:20.880 --> 00:00:24.840 return to take him with them to the United States, 7 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:27.520 and that one day has arrived. 8 00:00:28.080 --> 00:00:30.160 The very last day before I left. 9 00:00:30.360 --> 00:00:34.320 The thing that sticks in my mind is walking to 10 00:00:34.400 --> 00:00:39.600 the car, looking out the window and seeing Junior, my 11 00:00:39.720 --> 00:00:45.080 older brother, Ricky, my grandmother, and my grandfather. And I 12 00:00:45.120 --> 00:00:47.640 remember it like a photo. I mean, that was my life. 13 00:00:47.760 --> 00:00:50.040 They were standing in front of the house. That moment 14 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:52.040 sticks in my brain and I don't think I'll ever 15 00:00:52.080 --> 00:00:52.599 forget it. 16 00:00:53.680 --> 00:00:57.560 Even at the tender age of seven, Alejandro had a 17 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.680 deep sense of knowing inside of him. 18 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:03.560 Or I felt in my heart, even if I didn't 19 00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:05.479 have the language for it, as a seven year old, 20 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:10.080 that I would never return to that image of my 21 00:01:10.160 --> 00:01:13.080 grandparents and my siblings and this world. 22 00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:17.920 Soon, Alejandro was on a plane with his dad, a 23 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:22.360 fifteen hundred mile journey from Santo Domingo to New York City. 24 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:26.760 I remember that I really hated being on a plane, 25 00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:30.479 not because I was scared of height, although that became 26 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:35.280 apparent later on. I hated it because my ears hurt. 27 00:01:35.319 --> 00:01:37.000 My ears were popping and they heard, and I was 28 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:37.880 really uncomfortable. 29 00:01:38.360 --> 00:01:42.039 And then Alejandro would be in New York, the flashy 30 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:44.240 city he'd seen in photographs. 31 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:49.560 And then I remember arriving in the Bronx in the 32 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:54.240 apartment and being very disappointed in how the buildings looked 33 00:01:54.600 --> 00:01:57.400 because in the Dominica Republic, I had only ever seen 34 00:01:57.600 --> 00:02:03.160 images of downtown New York, and so all these beautiful buildings, 35 00:02:03.240 --> 00:02:05.360 these high towers, and I thought that was all of 36 00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:07.920 New York. And so when I arrived in the Bronx 37 00:02:07.960 --> 00:02:11.160 and I see all these like break buildings, I was like, 38 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:12.000 what is this? 39 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:17.480 But it wasn't just the buildings. The people waiting for 40 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:20.560 him in the big city didn't match the images in 41 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:21.639 his head either. 42 00:02:22.480 --> 00:02:25.800 And then I get to the third floor and my 43 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:30.840 mother opens the door, and I didn't think much about it. 44 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:35.240 I just walked right past her. I didn't really recognize her. 45 00:02:36.440 --> 00:02:39.919 But I think that moment is still telling of what 46 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:42.720 it is like to grow up without your parents, or 47 00:02:42.720 --> 00:02:45.080 to meet your parents when you're seven, I couldn't have known. 48 00:02:45.880 --> 00:02:50.799 Like New York, Alejandro's mother to him existed in photographs 49 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:52.720 and in a foggy memory. 50 00:02:53.200 --> 00:02:55.320 I had seen photos of my mom and she had 51 00:02:55.320 --> 00:02:57.520 come to visit, I think a couple of years before, 52 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:00.040 when I was like maybe three or four, but I 53 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:03.360 didn't remember her by that point, and I walked past her, 54 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:04.680 and I think that really hurt her. 55 00:03:06.480 --> 00:03:10.640 Alejandro was finally reunited with his parents, yes, but it 56 00:03:10.720 --> 00:03:14.600 wasn't immediately the happy ending to his childhood dreams. 57 00:03:14.880 --> 00:03:17.040 I was always afraid of the dark as a kid, 58 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:22.480 and I remember that on the phone. They had explained 59 00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:25.320 to me before I went that I would be sleeping 60 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:28.640 on a sandwich bed, which is a bed that opens 61 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:31.400 and closes, and people use those when there is an 62 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:33.360 intern a space in an apartment, and I was like. 63 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:36.400 This is supposed to look like a sandwich. Where's the lettuce, 64 00:03:36.440 --> 00:03:37.440 where's the bread? You know? 65 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:41.200 But I stopped on my sandwich bed, and I was 66 00:03:41.240 --> 00:03:45.080 afraid it was weird. I think I was excited. It 67 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:48.400 felt to me like an adventure, but I was also 68 00:03:48.480 --> 00:03:52.120 afraid of being alone. And I think that is something 69 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:54.560 that as a child I had to grapple with for 70 00:03:54.600 --> 00:03:56.760 a very long time, and I think in part it 71 00:03:56.840 --> 00:04:00.320 was because I had left behind my world. I left 72 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:02.960 behind my siblings, the people who had raised me. 73 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:03.480 All of that. 74 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:10.040 Soon Alejandro would start over a new language, a new city, 75 00:04:10.640 --> 00:04:16.120 a new life, and with time he'd discover more of himself, 76 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:21.000 his love of writing, his queerness, his longing to understand 77 00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:24.920 why people leave their homelands and how they build community 78 00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:28.600 in a new land. These are some of the questions 79 00:04:28.640 --> 00:04:33.520 that inspired Alejandro Eredia to write his debut novel, Loca, 80 00:04:34.400 --> 00:04:39.040 and the answers he found were layered, complicated, and also 81 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:48.320 full of beauty. From Futro Media and PRX, It's Latino USA, 82 00:04:48.400 --> 00:04:52.680 I'm Mariano JSA Today a conversation about migration and queerness 83 00:04:53.000 --> 00:05:04.080 with Afro Dominican author Alejandro Eredia. Producer Renardo Lanos Junior 84 00:05:04.440 --> 00:05:05.760 has today's story for us. 85 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:11.119 The bronx is so present in Alejandro Heredia's debut novel, 86 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:14.840 Loka that it becomes a character of its own, and 87 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:17.880 that's why I wanted to start my conversation with Alejandro 88 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:27.120 right here, Patients. Alejandro has black, curly hair, strikingly symmetrical eyebrows, 89 00:05:27.440 --> 00:05:31.039 and an incredibly well groomed beard. He has a welcoming 90 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:34.120 air to him. So, Alejandro, can you set the scene 91 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:35.680 as to like, where are we at right now? 92 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:39.039 So we are on the corner of Grand Concourse and 93 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:42.480 one sixty seven. There's a bunch of cars passing by, 94 00:05:42.760 --> 00:05:46.080 a bunch of New York City buses. There's people coming 95 00:05:46.080 --> 00:05:48.359 in and out of the train station. So we're just 96 00:05:48.400 --> 00:05:51.279 going to walk around my old stomping grounds where I 97 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:54.359 grew up when I first immigrated to the Bronx in 98 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:55.719 two thousand and one. 99 00:05:55.760 --> 00:05:59.120 This community, home to one of the largest concentrations of 100 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:02.800 Dominicans in New York City, means a lot to Alejandro. 101 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:06.120 It's a place that helps shape him into the person 102 00:06:06.200 --> 00:06:10.520 he is today. It's also where sal the queer Dominican 103 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:12.880 protagonist in Alejandro's book. 104 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:13.159 Grew up. 105 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:15.440 I don't think a lot of people get to experience 106 00:06:15.640 --> 00:06:18.440 the Bronx, But for you, what is it about the 107 00:06:18.440 --> 00:06:20.440 Bronx that makes it so special? 108 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:26.960 I always tell people that anything and everything that you 109 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:30.960 can learn about, the grace and the limitations and the 110 00:06:30.960 --> 00:06:34.840 struggles of being a human being, you can learn about 111 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:38.320 just by hearing the stories that happen right here on 112 00:06:38.400 --> 00:06:42.520 Grand concourse, we have incredible food here, we have incredible people. 113 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:45.760 It's a challenging place to grow up in, but it's 114 00:06:45.760 --> 00:06:48.799 also a place that taught me so much about street smarts, 115 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:53.880 about perseverance, about asking questions and being really curious. 116 00:06:54.880 --> 00:06:59.080 As we walk, Alejandro points out his old and current hunts. 117 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:02.800 My aunt lived here in this building for a very 118 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:07.240 long time. My cousin and my grandparents also lived in 119 00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:09.960 this apartment. My cousin still lives here, he's probably at work. 120 00:07:09.960 --> 00:07:12.480 Can you paint a picture of what little Alexandro was, 121 00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:15.400 you know, kind of growing up here in this community. 122 00:07:16.120 --> 00:07:16.560 Yeah. 123 00:07:16.640 --> 00:07:20.120 So I came to this country, into this neighborhood when 124 00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:23.920 I was seven years old, and that's a very particular 125 00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:26.480 time to come to a new country. I had to 126 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:29.040 learn English, and I had to learn it very very fast, 127 00:07:29.320 --> 00:07:33.440 because learning to speak the language and speak it well 128 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:37.120 as a foremost survival. And again, the Bronx. 129 00:07:36.880 --> 00:07:38.560 Is a beautiful place, but it's also a tough place 130 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:40.680 to grow up in, you know, in schools or bullies, 131 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:42.080 and I. 132 00:07:41.960 --> 00:07:45.000 Had to be able to defend myself, and being able 133 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:48.840 to defend myself came with learning English very fast, I think, 134 00:07:48.880 --> 00:07:52.960 because I was so hyper vigilant about language and words. 135 00:07:53.400 --> 00:07:54.720 I became a very good student. 136 00:07:55.200 --> 00:07:58.960 I remember in fourth grade seeing one of my essays 137 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:01.960 get a really good grade and feeling very good about myself, 138 00:08:02.200 --> 00:08:05.720 feeling like, oh wow, like I've done something to be 139 00:08:05.760 --> 00:08:08.200 proud of. And it came by way of language in 140 00:08:08.200 --> 00:08:08.880 the written word. 141 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:13.320 That knack for writing would stay with him and he'd 142 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:17.880 harness it, sharpen it with time until he finally wrote 143 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:22.600 his novel Looka, which centers around two friends, Sal and Charro, 144 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:26.440 who each left the Dominican Republic for the Bronx. The 145 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:31.080 book has been described as a quintessential American novel. And 146 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:35.520 I really thought his writing was evocative, real, relatable, and 147 00:08:35.640 --> 00:08:39.000 lace with the view that is so universal. I wondered 148 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:42.040 when first reading his book if that warmth in his 149 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:45.560 writing was shaped by his feelings for his parents and 150 00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:49.720 in their own immigration stories. And obviously your mom also 151 00:08:49.800 --> 00:08:52.720 had to have had her own experience coming here to 152 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:56.240 the Bronx settling in and I think that's also part 153 00:08:56.280 --> 00:08:59.800 of the reason why you based Loka in the timeline 154 00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:03.440 of the nineties, because this was around the time your 155 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:06.080 parents moved here as well. But what has your mom 156 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:09.760 told you about her own personal experiences of settling here 157 00:09:09.880 --> 00:09:10.400 in New York. 158 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:15.080 I was particularly curious about writing, or interested in writing 159 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:18.439 about all of the great things, but also the challenges 160 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:21.080 of being in immigrants in this city in the nineteen nineties. 161 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:24.600 My mom, every time we walk down the street Grand 162 00:09:24.640 --> 00:09:29.640 Concourse or drive through it, she points to like every 163 00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:32.480 building that she lived in, and there are so many. 164 00:09:32.559 --> 00:09:34.400 In just the span of a few years, she moved 165 00:09:34.400 --> 00:09:37.400 around to so many different places. And it wasn't out 166 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:39.960 of a sense of adventure. It was out of a 167 00:09:40.040 --> 00:09:42.000 you know how difficult it was. So even just rent 168 00:09:42.040 --> 00:09:45.040 out a room, she had terrible roommates, or there were 169 00:09:45.640 --> 00:09:48.880 rat infestations, or so many different struggles that she went through. 170 00:09:49.280 --> 00:09:51.480 And that's evident just in the amount of places that 171 00:09:52.160 --> 00:09:54.080 and buildings that she lived in on the Strip. 172 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:56.320 And I think one thing that you said recently, it's 173 00:09:56.400 --> 00:09:58.640 kind of just been more important than ever to say 174 00:09:58.800 --> 00:10:01.000 that you're like a writer from the Bronx, Right. 175 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:06.440 Yeah, I grew up feeling very ashamed about being from 176 00:10:06.520 --> 00:10:10.000 the Bronx. The Bronx is a place that is deep 177 00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:14.520 in myth. There are so many things that people believe 178 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:18.440 that they know about the Bronx, and when I was 179 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:22.640 a young person and a teenager, I internalize a bunch 180 00:10:22.640 --> 00:10:26.400 of negative stereotypes about my hometown. And it wasn't until 181 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:29.679 my early twenties when I started to educate myself, when 182 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:32.920 I started to do community organizing, that I started to 183 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:36.360 gain a new found appreciation for this place. And then, 184 00:10:36.520 --> 00:10:38.440 you know, by the time I sat down to write 185 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:41.040 the novel, it was clear in my mind that I 186 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:44.480 wanted to write about the Bronx, not just as a 187 00:10:44.520 --> 00:10:46.800 place that is dangerous or a place that is dirty, 188 00:10:46.920 --> 00:10:50.280 or a place that is all of these different negative stereotypes. 189 00:10:50.640 --> 00:10:52.800 I wanted to write about the humanity of this place. 190 00:10:53.800 --> 00:10:56.640 That mission to humanize the place in the world he 191 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:01.240 comes from, that's often so misunderstood, really comes through in 192 00:11:01.280 --> 00:11:05.480 Alejandro's writing. At a time when queer immigrants like Alejandro 193 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:09.640 himself are so vilified, I wanted to ask him did 194 00:11:09.640 --> 00:11:14.240 he have concerns about publishing his book during this presidential administration. 195 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:18.800 Now I definitely think about the importance of writing about 196 00:11:18.920 --> 00:11:26.240 immigrant narratives, especially LGBTQ immigrant narratives, and it feels like 197 00:11:26.280 --> 00:11:29.120 the work is more necessary than ever. There are so 198 00:11:29.320 --> 00:11:35.880 many societal grand narratives about what immigrants are like in 199 00:11:35.920 --> 00:11:38.040 a positive way, in a negative. 200 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:39.040 Way, whatever it might be. 201 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:42.680 And part of what I'm trying to do through this 202 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:47.240 novel is to show that immigrants are people, and that 203 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:51.199 means that they are varied and all different and all 204 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:55.480 have different stories to share. I think when we create 205 00:11:55.600 --> 00:12:00.319 negative political narrative or positive political narratives, we put people 206 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:04.040 into boxes. And my job as a novelist is to 207 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:06.480 take my people out of boxes. 208 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:13.959 When we come back, debut novelist Alejandro Redia tells us 209 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:17.560 about a relationship and a loss that shaped him forever, 210 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.640 also about writing queer characters and insisting on queer joy. 211 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:46.800 Stay with us, Yes, Hey, we're back. Latino USA producer 212 00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:50.000 Renaldo Lanos Junior is going to continue his conversation with 213 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:55.040 author Alejandroredia in our Harlem studio. Here's Ronaldo speaking about 214 00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:56.760 Alejandro's novel Looca. 215 00:13:00.880 --> 00:13:04.040 I was able to get the advanced copy and I 216 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:05.880 finished it in like a day or two, Like it 217 00:13:05.920 --> 00:13:06.560 was pretty quick. 218 00:13:06.679 --> 00:13:07.280 That's awesome. 219 00:13:07.400 --> 00:13:10.520 I really really enjoyed it. And in the advanced copy 220 00:13:10.800 --> 00:13:13.960 you start off and literally by this first sentence, it says, 221 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:17.280 in twenty eighteen, my older cousin who is more like 222 00:13:17.400 --> 00:13:21.240 my brother, died by suicide. That cousin was named Junior, 223 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:23.240 And you go on to talk a little bit about 224 00:13:23.280 --> 00:13:26.200 how important he was too, and you say that writing 225 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:31.240 this novel saved you from self destruction, and so can 226 00:13:31.280 --> 00:13:34.760 you talk a little bit about who Junior was and 227 00:13:34.880 --> 00:13:36.760 just why he was so special too. 228 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:40.280 Yeah, So, Junior and I grew up together in the 229 00:13:40.280 --> 00:13:43.600 Dominican Republic up until I was the age of seven, 230 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:47.920 which is when I migrated. We were part of many 231 00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:53.160 generations of children who are left behind by their parents 232 00:13:53.520 --> 00:13:56.240 when their parents migrate somewhere else to try to find 233 00:13:56.280 --> 00:13:59.000 the opportunity, and so we grew up as brothers. We 234 00:13:59.040 --> 00:14:01.760 did everything together. Junior taught me how to ride a bike, 235 00:14:02.400 --> 00:14:05.520 how to escape. We used to play baseball outside with 236 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:09.320 other kids. We did everything together. And when he passed 237 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:12.760 away in twenty eighteen, it was a real shock to 238 00:14:12.880 --> 00:14:16.440 my system in so many different ways, and it pushed 239 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:19.840 me and created an urgency within me to try to 240 00:14:19.880 --> 00:14:22.760 capture with language of the worlds from which we came from. 241 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:25.000 I think for a long time I sort of took 242 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:28.800 our vernacular and our dreams and our desires for granted, 243 00:14:29.400 --> 00:14:31.880 as we often do in life. But when he passed, 244 00:14:32.040 --> 00:14:34.560 I thought, I really want to honor his life and 245 00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:38.280 our experiences. And none of the characters in the novel 246 00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:42.520 are him or me or anyone in my life, but 247 00:14:42.560 --> 00:14:45.480 it was important for me to capture the texture of 248 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:47.040 so much of our desire. 249 00:14:46.800 --> 00:14:47.560 As young people. 250 00:14:47.680 --> 00:14:48.520 What do you mean by that? 251 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:53.200 For example, we grew up watching Sex and the City, 252 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:57.200 and part of what we did often is that we 253 00:14:57.200 --> 00:15:01.880 would dream that this In high school, we would dream 254 00:15:02.040 --> 00:15:05.280 that we would be like those white girls in Sex 255 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:08.360 and the City, that we would go out dancing and 256 00:15:08.400 --> 00:15:11.360 buy nice clothes and fall in love in and out 257 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:14.240 of love with men. And that was just our world 258 00:15:14.280 --> 00:15:16.320 like that was just the way that our dreams worked 259 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:19.040 and desires that we had for ourselves, and we talked 260 00:15:19.040 --> 00:15:21.760 about it openly and it was fun to dream in 261 00:15:21.800 --> 00:15:25.080 that way. Some of those dreams never came true. There 262 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:27.520 are things that we didn't get to do together. But 263 00:15:27.560 --> 00:15:30.200 I think often it's a symptom of being alive, that 264 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:32.920 we are often just moving through our day to day 265 00:15:33.040 --> 00:15:37.240 and not thinking about how important the worlds and the 266 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:40.640 vernaculars that we come from are. Part of writing this 267 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:42.760 novel part of what I had to do was to 268 00:15:43.640 --> 00:15:48.600 almost mystify and then demystify my own normal so that. 269 00:15:48.560 --> 00:15:49.800 I could write it on the page. 270 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:53.600 When we were in the Bronx, we talked about your 271 00:15:53.640 --> 00:15:56.000 love of the Bronx, the importance of that place, and 272 00:15:56.040 --> 00:15:59.320 we also talked a little bit about migration. And another 273 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:03.360 big theme in your book is queerness and identity. I 274 00:16:03.400 --> 00:16:07.880 heard you recently talk about Yadiel, who's, you know, unabashedly 275 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:10.960 kind of queer character in your book, who is not 276 00:16:11.040 --> 00:16:14.760 worried about expressing himself. He's very just like present, living 277 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:16.640 his life. And I think you had said something on 278 00:16:16.680 --> 00:16:20.000 along the lines of how, Yadiel, it's very different from you, 279 00:16:20.400 --> 00:16:22.600 or at least like what's different from you, like growing 280 00:16:22.680 --> 00:16:24.480 up and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but 281 00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:27.440 that he was more in line with that cousin, Junior 282 00:16:27.920 --> 00:16:32.280 walk me through that creative process of creating the characters 283 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:35.760 of Sao and the character of Yadiel, because I think 284 00:16:35.760 --> 00:16:38.320 the relationship was just extremely beautiful. 285 00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:41.760 Yeah. I remember one day Junior and I were on 286 00:16:41.800 --> 00:16:45.600 a bus in the Bronx, and I don't know what 287 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:49.080 we were talking about, but I remember in that moment 288 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:54.120 looking at Junior and seeing how unapologetic he was about 289 00:16:54.160 --> 00:17:00.440 his mannerisms and his queerness. And I remember watching myself 290 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:05.760 feel ashamed about what other people might think, seeing two 291 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:11.120 queer people on a bus talking in this unapologetic way, 292 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:15.439 taking up space, and I remember feeling ashamed about that shame. 293 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:19.200 So there's so many layers of shame. And I think 294 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:21.639 that was something that I always admired about Junior, that 295 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:25.680 he was so willing to be himself wherever he went 296 00:17:26.320 --> 00:17:28.760 in ways that I just could not. I was always 297 00:17:28.800 --> 00:17:33.919 such an anxious young person, always so apologetic and hypervigilant 298 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:36.760 about how I would take up space. And I brought 299 00:17:36.760 --> 00:17:39.520 some of the energy to the novel because I am 300 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:44.040 really curious about people like that who just refuse to 301 00:17:44.080 --> 00:17:49.600 fold themselves in response to other people's criticisms or their 302 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:52.119 own shame. One of my favorite lines in the novel 303 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:56.400 is some people would rather be destroyed than be reduced. 304 00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:00.439 I think that is such an important value to keeping mind, 305 00:18:00.520 --> 00:18:03.159 that there are just people that are not willing to 306 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:06.600 fold themselves for anyone, And I wanted to create this 307 00:18:06.760 --> 00:18:10.320 contrast between these two characters in the novel, where one 308 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:13.639 of them was unapologetically queer and willing to defy and 309 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:17.680 push back against societal norms, and the other one feels 310 00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:20.880 like I'm going to do it but kind of halfway, 311 00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:23.080 but also I'm really anxious and don't want to make 312 00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:24.840 anyone uncomfortable. 313 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:26.919 In Just like hearing you speak and looking at the 314 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:30.000 novel as well, it seems that like a lot of 315 00:18:30.040 --> 00:18:33.920 the way that this is created really stems from questions, right, 316 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:37.560 like imagining what your mom or your parents' journey from 317 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:41.360 Dominican Republic to the Bronx was. Is that how your 318 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:42.879 creative process works. 319 00:18:43.320 --> 00:18:46.199 I think that so much of my writing begins with 320 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:50.119 asking myself what if? So one of the foundation of 321 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:52.480 questions at the center of the novel for me while 322 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:55.480 I was writing it was what if I would have 323 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:59.280 had a queer adolescence in the Dominican Republic? Because I 324 00:18:59.280 --> 00:19:03.159 did not have that experience, Sala's experience is not my own. Also, 325 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:06.000 I asked myself, what if I would have had a 326 00:19:06.080 --> 00:19:08.679 queer mentor to guide me and take care of me 327 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:12.919 through adolescence so that I could understand all the complicated 328 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:15.119 feelings that were coming up for me. And so I 329 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:18.399 wrote Ranada into the novel so that she could guide 330 00:19:18.600 --> 00:19:23.320 Sayada through their queer coming of age. I'm really curious 331 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:26.320 about all the alternative ways that I could have or 332 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:29.960 might have lived my life, and then sometimes I transpose 333 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:32.920 that into characters. But I always make sure that I'm 334 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:36.879 creating a very big space or gap between myself and 335 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:39.439 the other characters. I want them to be their own people, 336 00:19:39.840 --> 00:19:42.560 with their own desires, their own wants, their own needs. 337 00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:45.439 I just really wanted to see queer Dominican people in 338 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:49.840 literary fiction. I wanted to bring queer Dominican vernacular to 339 00:19:50.080 --> 00:19:53.080 this genre and this literary world that I love so much, 340 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:55.359 and I think that's what propelled me to work on 341 00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:57.879 the book for so many years. I'm interested in creating 342 00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:00.359 rigorous art and what I want to do that I 343 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:04.000 want to push people to think or feel something new 344 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:07.320 about the world that includes my own people, Dominican people, 345 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:09.800 queer people, but also people who have never been to 346 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:12.760 the Dominican Republic, or who have never been to the Bronx, 347 00:20:12.840 --> 00:20:14.880 or don't know any queer people, whatever it might be. 348 00:20:15.280 --> 00:20:17.280 And you know, you've also said that Looka is going 349 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:21.280 to much the queer Dominican life. I mean, there's men dancing, 350 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:24.560 but shat that together. There's gay sex, queer friendship, and 351 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:27.480 a lot more written within these pages of your novel. 352 00:20:27.800 --> 00:20:31.840 But why was it intentional for you to have these moments, 353 00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:37.680 these snapshots, these intimate moments of queerness within the pages 354 00:20:37.800 --> 00:20:38.280 of Lucca. 355 00:20:38.840 --> 00:20:42.320 I think it's because I grew up reading so much 356 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:46.560 immigrant literature, reading the works of Jamaica and Kate into 357 00:20:46.600 --> 00:20:50.800 Each Dantica and Juno Diaz and so many different writers, 358 00:20:51.040 --> 00:20:55.359 and it's like, queer people don't exist in those worlds. 359 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:57.720 And I'm not saying that those writers have a responsibility 360 00:20:57.760 --> 00:20:59.639 to write about queer people. They write about whatever they 361 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:02.160 want to writ about. But I saw a real absence 362 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:06.480 in the kinds of narratives that represented my own life 363 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:09.040 and the experiences of people around me, And so I 364 00:21:09.040 --> 00:21:12.560 felt a responsibility from the very beginning in my first 365 00:21:12.600 --> 00:21:16.159 novel to make sure that I said to the world 366 00:21:16.320 --> 00:21:19.600 through my work that queer Dominican people are just as 367 00:21:20.280 --> 00:21:24.720 deserving of rigor and intelligent writing. 368 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:27.200 I have to also bring up your your book launch, 369 00:21:27.600 --> 00:21:31.760 your recent book launch, you hosted a Q and A 370 00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:34.439 that was like followed by this like queer dance party. 371 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.080 I don't see a lot of that right, like parties 372 00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:40.680 infused with these book talks, and in a lot of 373 00:21:40.760 --> 00:21:43.200 ways it does, and for lack of a better word, 374 00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:47.000 and this kind of sometimes like overused but queer joy. Now, 375 00:21:47.280 --> 00:21:49.720 you know, just talk to me about the reason for 376 00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:53.719 you wanting to fuse these two things together. 377 00:21:54.560 --> 00:21:56.439 So, when you're putting a book out into the world, 378 00:21:56.680 --> 00:21:59.320 you have to think seriously about how you want your 379 00:21:59.320 --> 00:22:02.000 book to live in the world and how you want 380 00:22:02.280 --> 00:22:06.040 people to engage with it, especially in regards to events, 381 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:09.400 launch parties, all that stuff. And I thought, what better 382 00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:12.040 way to honor the themes of the novel and the 383 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:16.200 energy of the novel than to throw a dance party 384 00:22:16.840 --> 00:22:20.760 in which all the DJs are Dominican and queer, in 385 00:22:20.800 --> 00:22:25.680 which the energy feels lively and exciting. We were in 386 00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:29.399 Brooklyn at the Moxie Hotel and the Lily Star Space, 387 00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:32.600 which is all the way upstairs. It has a beautiful 388 00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:37.639 view of a bridge and the New York skyline, and 389 00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:44.160 people were wearing really beautiful, colorful outfits and people were dancing. 390 00:22:44.560 --> 00:22:47.280 At one point there was this huge cake that came 391 00:22:47.320 --> 00:22:49.880 out that had the cover of Loca and. 392 00:22:49.840 --> 00:22:51.200 That was beautiful to see. 393 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:54.679 At one point from my little corner of signing books, 394 00:22:55.080 --> 00:22:58.879 I saw people voguing and creating a circle of dance. 395 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:01.280 It was like I was seeing some of the scenes 396 00:23:01.320 --> 00:23:04.600 in the book alive in front of me, which is 397 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:08.399 just beautiful. I think sometimes in the literary world, because 398 00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:11.359 we are all very serious, intense people, we tend to 399 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:14.640 go for the very serious and intense and we want 400 00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:17.720 to create intellectual spaces, which I think is important. But 401 00:23:17.760 --> 00:23:20.680