WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:12.080 Friends, hello, and welcome to NeverPost's 2 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:15.735 jingle bell jingle bell jingle bell mailbag twenty twenty five 3 00:00:15.735 --> 00:00:18.695 in which we respond to listener emails, comments, voicemails, 4 00:00:18.695 --> 00:00:22.855 and voice messages about our segments. A surprising number of 5 00:00:22.855 --> 00:00:27.610 missives this round delivered by the mailman. Though they mostly 6 00:00:27.610 --> 00:00:31.050 appear to be poorly written letters with awful handwriting 7 00:00:31.050 --> 00:00:36.010 requesting things like pop guns, Lego sets, and puppies addressed 8 00:00:36.010 --> 00:00:40.515 to some guy who definitely does not work here. Beginning to 9 00:00:40.515 --> 00:00:43.315 think there may have been a mix up at the post office. Anyways, 10 00:00:43.315 --> 00:00:46.115 we're only a small Internet show. 11 00:00:46.355 --> 00:00:48.595 We're gonna see what we can do about all of these puppy 12 00:00:48.595 --> 00:00:51.730 requests. I'm your host, Mike Rugnetta. Joining me here today 13 00:00:51.730 --> 00:00:54.770 in order of how likely I think it is that they may have gotten 14 00:00:54.770 --> 00:00:59.410 their tongue frozen to a flagpole as a child decreasing. 15 00:00:59.410 --> 00:01:01.330 Oh. Okay. So most likely first. 16 00:01:01.330 --> 00:01:05.010 Oh. Based entirely upon geography, never 17 00:01:05.010 --> 00:01:07.495 post senior producer Hans Buteau. Yeah. 18 00:01:09.015 --> 00:01:14.135 My geography is cold. It was nine degrees 19 00:01:14.135 --> 00:01:17.415 yesterday, max. It's been snowing a lot recently. I live 20 00:01:17.415 --> 00:01:21.820 in the Twin Cities, and I grew up here. So, yeah, absolutely. 21 00:01:21.820 --> 00:01:23.420 I have frozen here's I'm not 22 00:01:23.420 --> 00:01:24.140 frozen my tongue too. 23 00:01:24.140 --> 00:01:28.780 Is the flagpole? But you know how well, 24 00:01:28.780 --> 00:01:30.620 especially when you're a kid, I was gonna say, you know how 25 00:01:30.620 --> 00:01:33.100 accidentally you lick your zipper on your jacket once in a 26 00:01:33.100 --> 00:01:35.705 while. I mean, you don't. But when you're a kid, you do. When 27 00:01:35.705 --> 00:01:35.865 you're 28 00:01:35.865 --> 00:01:37.865 a kid, you absolutely do your thing. 29 00:01:37.865 --> 00:01:39.545 You you huddle yeah. Exactly. Yes. 30 00:01:39.545 --> 00:01:40.425 Huddle your Sure. 31 00:01:40.425 --> 00:01:42.425 Sure. Middle is exactly what you're 32 00:01:42.425 --> 00:01:42.825 talking about. 33 00:01:42.825 --> 00:01:45.545 Yes. And then your tongue, like, glances against in 34 00:01:45.545 --> 00:01:46.985 its 16 below, and all of 35 00:01:46.985 --> 00:01:48.105 a sudden no longer a glance. 36 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:50.120 Yeah. Yeah. All of a sudden, you're stuck to your 37 00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:51.560 zipper. That has happened Next to 38 00:01:52.440 --> 00:01:55.240 in the roster, based again entirely upon 39 00:01:55.240 --> 00:01:57.880 geography, friend of the show, Meagle Janardan. 40 00:01:57.880 --> 00:02:00.840 Yeah. I don't think my tongue has ever frozen 41 00:02:01.705 --> 00:02:06.025 against anything, but I have been slashed by ice. Woah. 42 00:02:06.105 --> 00:02:08.985 Slashed by ice. Sledding accident. 43 00:02:09.065 --> 00:02:09.945 Oh. Classic. 44 00:02:10.505 --> 00:02:12.425 Let the audience know that Meagle made a motion 45 00:02:12.425 --> 00:02:15.705 indicating that she got the coolest, most badass injury in 46 00:02:15.705 --> 00:02:16.105 the world. 47 00:02:16.550 --> 00:02:19.110 An ice cut across the face. 48 00:02:20.390 --> 00:02:22.230 Never post producer Georgia Hampton. 49 00:02:22.390 --> 00:02:24.150 Okay. So I think I literally have done 50 00:02:24.150 --> 00:02:30.415 this. Like, I have a vivid memory of that specific feeling 51 00:02:30.415 --> 00:02:33.135 of my tongue being sucked to something that's, like, very 52 00:02:33.135 --> 00:02:37.535 strong, and having to figure out how to free myself and the panic 53 00:02:37.535 --> 00:02:38.095 of, like, 54 00:02:38.095 --> 00:02:41.295 uh-oh, the consequences of my actions. 55 00:02:42.050 --> 00:02:44.290 And finally, never post executive producer 56 00:02:44.290 --> 00:02:45.490 Jason Oberholtzer. 57 00:02:46.370 --> 00:02:48.050 I would never do such a thing. 58 00:02:48.930 --> 00:02:49.810 And I know that. 59 00:02:49.810 --> 00:02:50.370 Two watts. 60 00:02:50.370 --> 00:02:52.770 Two My entire life, I've been in a climate 61 00:02:52.770 --> 00:02:55.970 where that was available to me, and yet I have decided to make a 62 00:02:55.970 --> 00:03:01.005 better choice every time it was on offer. Wow. Okay. 63 00:03:01.405 --> 00:03:03.405 And that's why Jason's the EP of the show, 64 00:03:03.405 --> 00:03:03.885 folks. 65 00:03:04.285 --> 00:03:06.365 Mike, have you had such a thing happen? 66 00:03:06.365 --> 00:03:08.845 Oh, god. Yes. Absolutely. Oh, wow. Oh. 67 00:03:08.845 --> 00:03:10.650 Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I mean, 68 00:03:10.650 --> 00:03:12.490 I would just wander around my grandmother's 69 00:03:12.490 --> 00:03:15.130 house in Boston during this during the Boston winters and 70 00:03:15.130 --> 00:03:18.490 just, you know, lick every piece of metal I could possibly find. 71 00:03:18.730 --> 00:03:18.970 That's what 72 00:03:18.970 --> 00:03:20.810 I'm talking about. Mike's 73 00:03:20.810 --> 00:03:24.365 a very lingual four word. It's how Mike engages with 74 00:03:24.365 --> 00:03:25.325 a lot of the world. 75 00:03:25.805 --> 00:03:27.885 Heard about this one guy in Connecticut who 76 00:03:27.885 --> 00:03:30.365 refused to, and I was like, well, I gotta maintain balance 77 00:03:30.365 --> 00:03:31.165 in the universe. 78 00:03:31.165 --> 00:03:33.725 So Yeah. Have you ever considered making a 79 00:03:33.725 --> 00:03:34.525 better choice? 80 00:03:35.325 --> 00:03:36.525 You know? No. 81 00:03:37.510 --> 00:03:38.150 Good. 82 00:03:40.150 --> 00:03:41.910 Anyways, let's make a podcast. 83 00:03:41.990 --> 00:03:43.990 Yeah. Speaking of making bad choices, 84 00:03:43.990 --> 00:03:48.790 we've got a lot of mail. I'd like to start us out like we 85 00:03:48.790 --> 00:03:52.165 normally do with some responses to the previous mailbag and the 86 00:03:52.165 --> 00:03:55.685 subjects that came up there. And as a reminder, everybody, there 87 00:03:55.685 --> 00:03:58.325 are many ways to get in touch with us if you wanna be a part 88 00:03:58.325 --> 00:04:01.525 of these mailbags and look to the show notes for all of them. 89 00:04:01.765 --> 00:04:04.645 So I have one email in particular responding to some of 90 00:04:04.645 --> 00:04:07.925 the chatting you were doing last mailbag that I thought was 91 00:04:07.170 --> 00:04:09.730 particularly relevant in the holiday season. 92 00:04:09.730 --> 00:04:12.050 We're gonna do some spiritual stuff, gang. 93 00:04:12.210 --> 00:04:14.530 You know, we have we have joked in the past that 94 00:04:14.530 --> 00:04:18.370 this is a religious podcast. And then have joked that the more 95 00:04:18.370 --> 00:04:21.170 that we make that joke internally, the closer it gets 96 00:04:21.170 --> 00:04:23.985 to being weirdly kind of true. Mhmm. 97 00:04:24.225 --> 00:04:27.665 Well, I got an email for you, bud. We're 98 00:04:27.665 --> 00:04:31.345 getting close. This comes from Alex Friedman. I've been 99 00:04:31.345 --> 00:04:33.905 thinking about emailing the show for some time because I love it. 100 00:04:33.905 --> 00:04:36.065 I'm a member, and because I'm a rabbi. 101 00:04:36.400 --> 00:04:40.080 Oh. The last reason makes sense only because Never Post was 102 00:04:40.080 --> 00:04:44.400 deeply influential to me and to the high holiday sermon I just 103 00:04:44.400 --> 00:04:48.080 gave a week or so ago. Oh. I spoke about Addictive 104 00:04:48.080 --> 00:04:52.405 Technologies, Neil Postman, and focusing on local things you can 105 00:04:52.405 --> 00:04:55.125 actually influence over things that are just designed to get 106 00:04:55.125 --> 00:05:00.085 you angry and impotently engaged or enraged. Oh. 107 00:05:00.485 --> 00:05:02.965 I thought that might be too boring to be worth an email, but 108 00:05:02.965 --> 00:05:05.660 then Mike mentioned in the latest mailbag episode that he 109 00:05:05.660 --> 00:05:08.300 loves Rhode Island, and I'm in Providence. 110 00:05:08.700 --> 00:05:11.020 I this is only proving me more right that 111 00:05:11.020 --> 00:05:13.820 Providence that, yeah, Rhode Island rules. Yeah. 112 00:05:14.220 --> 00:05:15.420 I know y'all are inclined to think 113 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:18.025 politically about solutions to crisis of the social Internet, 114 00:05:18.025 --> 00:05:20.505 but I'm a rabbi, at least in part because I believe that 115 00:05:20.505 --> 00:05:24.025 religious institutions have a crucial role to play. They are, 116 00:05:24.025 --> 00:05:27.705 by definition and necessity, local. They are one of the last 117 00:05:27.705 --> 00:05:30.905 places, though this is becoming less true in some places and 118 00:05:30.905 --> 00:05:34.050 ways, where people of different politics and economic 119 00:05:34.050 --> 00:05:37.410 backgrounds come together regularly in common purpose, and 120 00:05:37.410 --> 00:05:40.130 they are a bastion of communal meaning making in a world that 121 00:05:40.130 --> 00:05:44.370 wants to teach us we are meant only to consume alone and be 122 00:05:44.370 --> 00:05:47.755 angry. Mhmm. He concludes, I'm happy to send the sermon along 123 00:05:47.755 --> 00:05:48.875 if you want to read it. 124 00:05:48.875 --> 00:05:52.955 I hope this note finds you well. It does and I do, so please send 125 00:05:52.955 --> 00:05:53.595 it along. 126 00:05:53.595 --> 00:05:55.035 Yeah. I would love to read that. Please send 127 00:05:55.035 --> 00:05:55.355 it along. 128 00:05:55.355 --> 00:05:56.875 Yeah, please. That sounds awesome. 129 00:05:56.875 --> 00:05:58.670 Incredible. So what do we 130 00:05:58.670 --> 00:06:00.990 think about the role of a religious 131 00:06:00.990 --> 00:06:03.710 institution as one of the last places where people of different 132 00:06:03.710 --> 00:06:06.270 political and economic backgrounds come together in 133 00:06:06.270 --> 00:06:08.910 common purpose? Wasn't that supposed to be the Internet? 134 00:06:11.230 --> 00:06:14.485 Interesting. Mean, I wonder the degree to 135 00:06:14.485 --> 00:06:17.685 which this is true on the larger scale. Like, I don't actually 136 00:06:17.685 --> 00:06:21.445 know, but it is extremely heartening to read that it is at 137 00:06:21.445 --> 00:06:23.125 least true in some places. 138 00:06:23.365 --> 00:06:28.010 Yeah. Yeah. I do think there's very few in in 139 00:06:28.010 --> 00:06:31.050 world places. Sorry. 140 00:06:31.370 --> 00:06:34.010 Oh, no. It's not it's, 141 00:06:34.010 --> 00:06:35.610 you know, in universe locations. 142 00:06:35.610 --> 00:06:36.650 In universe. Yeah. 143 00:06:36.730 --> 00:06:39.370 Canonical. Is this church canon? They say, 144 00:06:39.370 --> 00:06:43.615 Chad. This reminded me there's an another conversation I've 145 00:06:43.615 --> 00:06:46.735 been following online right now about movie theaters, kind of in 146 00:06:46.735 --> 00:06:54.415 a a sort of similar way of this space in our real lived world 147 00:06:54.720 --> 00:07:00.480 where we are gathering together for a shared goal, in the case 148 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:02.960 of movie theaters. And I imagine in the case of religious 149 00:07:02.960 --> 00:07:06.720 institutions, the idea being that you are not allowed to be 150 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:10.085 on your phone, that there are very few places left where that 151 00:07:10.085 --> 00:07:12.565 is explicitly understood. 152 00:07:13.285 --> 00:07:16.725 And in the things I've seen, movie theaters obviously fall 153 00:07:16.725 --> 00:07:20.405 under that category, though many people do not follow that. Mhmm. 154 00:07:20.405 --> 00:07:22.965 And I imagine the same is true for religious institutions. 155 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:25.560 I think it's yeah. There's, like, relatively 156 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:29.400 few places that you go where there is some percentage of the 157 00:07:29.400 --> 00:07:32.760 group of people that is there has a strong idea about how 158 00:07:32.760 --> 00:07:35.960 everybody is supposed to behave while they're there and enforces 159 00:07:35.960 --> 00:07:36.120 that. 160 00:07:36.535 --> 00:07:36.855 Yes. 161 00:07:36.855 --> 00:07:39.735 It's one of the reasons I love metal and punk 162 00:07:39.735 --> 00:07:42.535 rock shows. Because when someone gets out of line, there's a big 163 00:07:42.535 --> 00:07:45.335 group of people there who will very gently, but very firmly say 164 00:07:45.495 --> 00:07:45.815 Mhmm. 165 00:07:45.815 --> 00:07:47.655 We don't behave that way here. It's not what 166 00:07:47.655 --> 00:07:48.375 this is for. 167 00:07:48.615 --> 00:07:50.935 Yes. Do you think a classroom will fall into 168 00:07:50.935 --> 00:07:51.095 that? 169 00:07:51.790 --> 00:07:54.510 That's a good question. I and I wonder if the 170 00:07:54.510 --> 00:07:59.790 answer is different pre and post device ban, which is really sort 171 00:07:59.790 --> 00:08:02.670 of sweeping the nation at this very moment. 172 00:08:02.830 --> 00:08:06.350 Mhmm. It's almost like we have a natural 173 00:08:06.350 --> 00:08:10.565 inclination to desire some structure and authority around 174 00:08:10.565 --> 00:08:11.605 us at times. 175 00:08:11.925 --> 00:08:13.125 I mean It 176 00:08:13.125 --> 00:08:14.645 can be nice. It can 177 00:08:14.645 --> 00:08:15.525 be nice. 178 00:08:16.085 --> 00:08:18.005 That's not very girl boss slay. 179 00:08:21.210 --> 00:08:23.930 We gotta take our medicine sometimes. Yeah. 180 00:08:24.730 --> 00:08:27.530 But interesting about that comment is that it 181 00:08:27.530 --> 00:08:33.770 implies that having a device around you is anti structure in 182 00:08:33.770 --> 00:08:37.785 some way, where I would argue that having a phone on you is 183 00:08:37.785 --> 00:08:41.945 following a different set of rules. Like Yes. The people who 184 00:08:42.345 --> 00:08:45.705 want you to hold your phone all the time and want to be online, 185 00:08:46.025 --> 00:08:48.665 and that's a different environment with its own rules. 186 00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:54.000 It just clashes with a movie theater, a church Yes. A 187 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:55.360 synagogue, what have you. 188 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:57.440 Yeah. Yeah. It is in some ways in, like, 189 00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:00.320 conflict that you're walking around with a social compact in 190 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:02.935 your pocket that's very different from the spaces you 191 00:09:02.935 --> 00:09:03.575 move between 192 00:09:03.735 --> 00:09:04.135 Yes. That have 193 00:09:04.135 --> 00:09:05.575 different social compacts. 194 00:09:05.575 --> 00:09:07.495 Yeah. Like it's not just that it's different, 195 00:09:07.495 --> 00:09:12.615 it's that it's like directly in opposition to those spaces. 196 00:09:13.175 --> 00:09:14.855 Well, because they're both kind of asking the 197 00:09:14.855 --> 00:09:17.900 same thing, which is that they want you to be here. Yeah. They 198 00:09:17.900 --> 00:09:21.100 just happen to be co located and at odds. 199 00:09:21.340 --> 00:09:25.020 Mhmm. We got some responses to the segment I 200 00:09:25.020 --> 00:09:29.020 worked on on New Luddism. One of them from a friend of the show, 201 00:09:29.020 --> 00:09:33.175 Talia. Talia wrote in, what a great episode. Love your work, 202 00:09:33.175 --> 00:09:33.575 Meagle. 203 00:09:33.575 --> 00:09:37.335 Thank you. It just so happened that Jathan Sadowski was holding 204 00:09:37.335 --> 00:09:40.855 a Luddite tribunal at the local public library last night. So, 205 00:09:40.855 --> 00:09:43.990 of course, I had to mosey down and have a gander. Although the 206 00:09:43.990 --> 00:09:47.350 analysis and antics were fun, the library had risk assess 207 00:09:47.350 --> 00:09:50.550 smashing things and found it, well, risky. Instead, they 208 00:09:50.550 --> 00:09:53.990 commissioned, quote, Enoch shredder, unquote, to shred 209 00:09:53.990 --> 00:09:57.145 paper icons of the technology we deem smash able. 210 00:09:57.225 --> 00:09:59.785 Amazing. That is suspicious. 211 00:09:59.785 --> 00:10:00.665 I'll put it on. 212 00:10:03.305 --> 00:10:05.865 Fun little tautological knots aside, I 213 00:10:05.865 --> 00:10:08.505 guess the event didn't delve into the questions I feel most 214 00:10:08.505 --> 00:10:11.225 strongly about, and these were the ones I think this episode 215 00:10:11.225 --> 00:10:14.450 tackled. Like, generally, one of the most important questions to 216 00:10:14.450 --> 00:10:17.730 me is, can you even smash a virtual machine? There 217 00:10:17.730 --> 00:10:20.530 definitely feels like there is an important moment going on in 218 00:10:20.530 --> 00:10:23.570 which capital is trying to make its instruments less contingent 219 00:10:23.570 --> 00:10:27.395 on labor. Maybe more clearly stated, are they making the 220 00:10:27.395 --> 00:10:30.435 machines networked and virtual with protective intention? Can 221 00:10:30.435 --> 00:10:33.315 tools of this nature ever be democratized? 222 00:10:34.115 --> 00:10:40.035 I would question, is it really virtual? I I I think that that 223 00:10:40.035 --> 00:10:44.610 maybe is something that a lot of companies are having us think is 224 00:10:44.610 --> 00:10:47.570 that, you know, like, the cloud is in the cloud when a lot of 225 00:10:47.570 --> 00:10:51.970 technology is not there there's a physical aspect to all the 226 00:10:51.970 --> 00:10:55.010 technology that we engage with. We just kind of are being more 227 00:10:55.010 --> 00:11:00.065 and more removed from it. Yes. I also think that, you know, if 228 00:11:00.065 --> 00:11:04.865 we're not gonna go mosey our way down to a data center, maybe 229 00:11:04.865 --> 00:11:08.385 another way to look at smashing virtual technology is through 230 00:11:08.385 --> 00:11:08.945 boycotting. 231 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:11.320 It reminds me, Meaghel, of of what they were 232 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:13.720 talking about, of what especially Mohammed was talking 233 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:17.800 about in the interview about all the different types of sabotage 234 00:11:17.800 --> 00:11:18.680 that exist. 235 00:11:18.680 --> 00:11:23.400 Yes. Yes. Yeah. Mohammed and Emily were talking 236 00:11:23.400 --> 00:11:27.335 about that it's not always about smashing a physical piece of 237 00:11:27.335 --> 00:11:31.335 technology. You know, there's other ways to resist and kind of 238 00:11:31.335 --> 00:11:33.735 break down the technology even through using it. 239 00:11:33.735 --> 00:11:35.895 You have to smash the Epson printer in your heart 240 00:11:35.895 --> 00:11:36.535 first. 241 00:11:37.015 --> 00:11:37.735 Oh my god. 242 00:11:40.410 --> 00:11:43.450 Next up, we got an email from Julia Fisher in 243 00:11:43.450 --> 00:11:48.650 response to the episode I worked on about my attention span. This 244 00:11:48.650 --> 00:11:51.290 episode made me think about my own relationship with my phone 245 00:11:51.290 --> 00:11:55.215 usage and particularly short form video. In about twenty 246 00:11:55.215 --> 00:11:58.015 twenty two, I was halfway across the road when I realized that I 247 00:11:58.015 --> 00:12:01.295 had been using TikTok without enjoying it for months. I took 248 00:12:01.295 --> 00:12:04.255 that moment to delete the app and have never gone back. I 249 00:12:04.255 --> 00:12:07.310 could feel how the app had its hooks in my brain, and I knew 250 00:12:07.310 --> 00:12:10.270 that I had to remove myself from the cycle there and then. 251 00:12:10.430 --> 00:12:13.230 I am still annoyed that a medium, which I think has so 252 00:12:13.230 --> 00:12:15.150 much potential for really interesting and unique 253 00:12:15.150 --> 00:12:18.590 expressions, been used as a tool to squeeze the hours out of my 254 00:12:18.590 --> 00:12:22.485 day like a juicer. I'm ashamed to say that in the past year, I 255 00:12:22.485 --> 00:12:24.565 started going at Instagram reels instead. 256 00:12:24.725 --> 00:12:28.565 Oh my god. I saw. The freaks. 257 00:12:28.565 --> 00:12:29.925 Home of the freaks. 258 00:12:30.805 --> 00:12:33.205 I feel similar. I could give various arguments 259 00:12:33.205 --> 00:12:35.680 as to why I've gone back, but ultimately, it's the same brain 260 00:12:35.680 --> 00:12:38.720 hooks from a different app. One thing I've noticed with 261 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:41.360 Instagram though is that one of my core themes my algorithm 262 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:44.240 keeps returning me to is productivity. I believe it 263 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:47.585 started from a few videos about how to do good academia, which 264 00:12:47.585 --> 00:12:50.225 makes sense since I've recently returned to university for a 265 00:12:50.225 --> 00:12:53.745 master's. And, of course, Meta could consult their 266 00:12:53.745 --> 00:12:56.865 constellation of data about me to find out the second I 267 00:12:56.865 --> 00:12:58.145 submitted my application. 268 00:12:58.865 --> 00:13:02.225 From those academia videos, I have then been shown a number of 269 00:13:02.225 --> 00:13:05.260 videos similar to the episode, which are about how to rebuild 270 00:13:05.260 --> 00:13:08.780 your attention. Mhmm. I am fascinated by the process of an 271 00:13:08.780 --> 00:13:12.140 app showing me videos, which acknowledge that the experience 272 00:13:12.140 --> 00:13:15.500 is not pleasant and then showing techniques of how to stop using 273 00:13:15.500 --> 00:13:19.435 it. It's hardly new for systems to present their own critiques, 274 00:13:19.515 --> 00:13:22.235 but seeing people talk in practical terms about how to 275 00:13:22.235 --> 00:13:25.915 stop does feel different. It all makes me wonder about how the 276 00:13:25.915 --> 00:13:29.675 future of digital systems will be built on co opted critique. 277 00:13:30.070 --> 00:13:33.350 Could Instagram just be setting up a smokescreen by showing me 278 00:13:33.350 --> 00:13:36.950 these videos, showing me the way out to trick me into thinking I 279 00:13:36.950 --> 00:13:43.110 can leave whenever I want? Oh. Woah. You should definitely 280 00:13:43.110 --> 00:13:47.135 subscribe to the Neverpost RSS feed and continue to listen to 281 00:13:47.135 --> 00:13:47.855 this podcast. 282 00:13:47.855 --> 00:13:48.735 I'm trying to 283 00:13:48.975 --> 00:13:50.095 can learn how to stop 284 00:13:50.095 --> 00:13:53.135 listening to podcasts. But just listen to 285 00:13:53.135 --> 00:13:53.615 this podcast. 286 00:13:53.615 --> 00:13:56.335 Could Instagram be showing you the way 287 00:13:56.335 --> 00:13:58.735 out to trick you into thinking you can leave whenever you want? 288 00:13:59.170 --> 00:14:02.530 We know the answer, and we'll tell you soon later on. Never 289 00:14:02.530 --> 00:14:03.010 post. 290 00:14:03.010 --> 00:14:04.450 After these messages. After 291 00:14:04.690 --> 00:14:07.970 these messages. If you're a member, 292 00:14:08.770 --> 00:14:10.770 you'll get access to that conversation 293 00:14:10.770 --> 00:14:11.010 early. 294 00:14:12.045 --> 00:14:13.965 Should we should we just start printing out 295 00:14:13.965 --> 00:14:16.125 transcripts and mailing them to people? Is that the better 296 00:14:16.125 --> 00:14:20.205 option? Finish an episode. Do the transcripts. 297 00:14:20.285 --> 00:14:23.405 Not to be confused with a newspaper. Oh. 298 00:14:23.645 --> 00:14:25.725 Uh-oh. Mike accidentally invented 299 00:14:25.725 --> 00:14:26.630 newspapers. Newspapers. 300 00:14:26.630 --> 00:14:29.670 Interesting. Interesting. You know, this 301 00:14:29.670 --> 00:14:32.150 podcast industry thing is doesn't really seem to be 302 00:14:32.150 --> 00:14:36.310 working out for the world. Let's just go and check. How is the 303 00:14:36.310 --> 00:14:40.155 news publishing industry doing? 304 00:14:40.235 --> 00:14:41.595 Oh, Mike. I already checked. 305 00:14:41.595 --> 00:14:45.195 It's awesome. It's so good. 306 00:14:46.315 --> 00:14:49.915 Oh my god. I do have to I have to yell about the 307 00:14:49.915 --> 00:14:51.595 TikTok to Instagram reel pipeline. 308 00:14:53.730 --> 00:14:55.010 Where where what's the state 309 00:14:55.010 --> 00:14:56.530 of it now? Because it used to be, like, 310 00:14:56.530 --> 00:14:59.010 TikTok had everything first and it was cool, then Instagram was 311 00:14:59.010 --> 00:15:03.490 boomer y and had it late. But now, like okay. Still that? 312 00:15:03.490 --> 00:15:04.130 Yes. Oh, 313 00:15:04.130 --> 00:15:04.770 still that. 314 00:15:04.770 --> 00:15:05.490 Oh, I'm just gonna 315 00:15:05.735 --> 00:15:07.815 know TikTok seems like it's all commercials, 316 00:15:07.815 --> 00:15:09.495 and Instagram seems like it's all sickos. 317 00:15:09.495 --> 00:15:11.895 Instagram reels, at least in my experience in 318 00:15:11.895 --> 00:15:16.535 comparison to using TikTok, is full of fucking weirdos. Oh, 319 00:15:16.535 --> 00:15:21.580 okay. Strange. Like, the amount of just truly bizarre stuff that 320 00:15:21.580 --> 00:15:27.340 I see, it's is just mountains more of it on Instagram than I 321 00:15:27.340 --> 00:15:28.700 ever saw on TikTok. 322 00:15:28.780 --> 00:15:31.900 I do wonder how long it will take for the the 323 00:15:31.900 --> 00:15:38.725 ads, the endless advertising to get to Reels because I do still 324 00:15:38.725 --> 00:15:42.725 feel like TikTok I I generally avoid Reels because I'm like, 325 00:15:42.725 --> 00:15:45.605 listen, if I'm going to be drinking straight from the hose 326 00:15:45.925 --> 00:15:48.085 of this kind of content, I'm gonna do it once. 327 00:15:48.250 --> 00:15:50.330 Like it to be like it to be water and not 328 00:15:50.330 --> 00:15:51.130 chlorine or 329 00:15:51.290 --> 00:15:52.250 Yeah. Exactly. 330 00:15:52.890 --> 00:15:55.210 Yeah. And, like, I have a lot of a a few 331 00:15:55.210 --> 00:15:58.090 friends in my life who genuinely have been like, yeah. I'm so 332 00:15:58.090 --> 00:16:02.855 glad that I never got on TikTok. And I'm like, diva, Let's check 333 00:16:02.855 --> 00:16:05.175 our Instagram DMs. How many times are you looking at 334 00:16:06.135 --> 00:16:10.135 TikTok is on you. Yeah. This email does it just 335 00:16:10.135 --> 00:16:12.615 makes me think about I mean, and and Julia even acknowledges 336 00:16:12.615 --> 00:16:16.510 this, the old idea that it's like, any capitalism is able to 337 00:16:16.510 --> 00:16:21.150 subsume any criticism of it and is able to host it and profit 338 00:16:21.150 --> 00:16:23.710 from it. Yeah. So it's like, you know, Penguin House makes tons 339 00:16:23.710 --> 00:16:25.870 of money from printing Karl Marx's books. 340 00:16:25.870 --> 00:16:29.075 Yeah. It's just how it works. And it's like, you know, the job 341 00:16:29.075 --> 00:16:32.355 of the technology is to figure out what you want and give it to 342 00:16:32.355 --> 00:16:35.395 you. And what a lot of people want right now is to figure out 343 00:16:35.395 --> 00:16:39.315 how to spend less time online. So yeah, it is deeply ironic, 344 00:16:39.315 --> 00:16:42.595 but also very very true and makes all kinds of sense that 345 00:16:42.595 --> 00:16:46.410 Instagram will be like, well, here's endless content about 346 00:16:46.410 --> 00:16:48.170 spending less time online. 347 00:16:48.250 --> 00:16:53.050 Yeah. There is also this new what's in my bag 348 00:16:53.050 --> 00:16:56.730 video that I've seen where it's people packing, like, you know, 349 00:16:56.730 --> 00:17:00.105 putting stuff in their purse for activities that are offline, and 350 00:17:00.105 --> 00:17:03.545 they're making content about putting a book in their purse. 351 00:17:03.545 --> 00:17:05.705 Folks, we're gonna win. We're gonna we're 352 00:17:05.785 --> 00:17:08.585 everything's gonna be okay. It's just gonna take a little while. 353 00:17:08.585 --> 00:17:11.545 Did they start that day by yawning and 354 00:17:11.545 --> 00:17:12.265 tossing off their 355 00:17:12.265 --> 00:17:17.410 sheets 10 feet away from their phone? Yes. God. 356 00:17:17.410 --> 00:17:17.730 Well, I 357 00:17:17.730 --> 00:17:19.570 think one thing that's interesting about this is 358 00:17:19.570 --> 00:17:23.090 where Julia figured it out. I love the detail that no one has 359 00:17:23.090 --> 00:17:28.005 commented on. I was halfway across a road. Realized I 360 00:17:28.005 --> 00:17:28.885 had been using TikTok 361 00:17:28.885 --> 00:17:30.485 TikTok without enjoying it for months. I took 362 00:17:30.485 --> 00:17:32.885 that moment to delete the app and have never gone back. 363 00:17:32.885 --> 00:17:33.205 I hope it. 364 00:17:33.205 --> 00:17:35.845 Stepping on to the far curb and thinking 365 00:17:35.845 --> 00:17:37.925 immediately, oh, damn, dog. 366 00:17:37.925 --> 00:17:42.005 We all remember that moment. If you if you 367 00:17:42.005 --> 00:17:45.660 remember the moment that you had such a realization, tell us what 368 00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:47.820 it is. Tell us where you were standing and which road you were 369 00:17:47.820 --> 00:17:51.580 crossing, when you decide when it hit you. 370 00:17:51.580 --> 00:17:52.220 Don't tell us 371 00:17:52.300 --> 00:17:52.700 Oh god. 372 00:17:52.700 --> 00:17:53.580 Out of the road first. 373 00:17:53.580 --> 00:17:55.740 Yeah. Yeah. Please. Traffic. 374 00:17:56.140 --> 00:17:58.780 But send that to us. Thank you, Julia, for this. 375 00:18:00.755 --> 00:18:03.715 Ben Smith sent in something about my segment 376 00:18:03.715 --> 00:18:06.995 about recipes as vibe posting. 377 00:18:08.195 --> 00:18:12.930 Hi, Neverpost. This is less of a question or comment 378 00:18:12.930 --> 00:18:17.250 and more of just an excited, what a wonderful confluence of 379 00:18:17.250 --> 00:18:20.850 people thinking about this topic slash excitedly just sort of 380 00:18:20.850 --> 00:18:23.570 waving my arms in the air about this the entire time I was 381 00:18:23.570 --> 00:18:28.275 listening. But Ruby Tando from Bake Off, but also who is just a 382 00:18:28.275 --> 00:18:32.275 fantastic food writer in her own right, literally had a book 383 00:18:32.275 --> 00:18:36.035 coming out this week called All Consuming. The cover is very 384 00:18:36.035 --> 00:18:39.555 good, but the first section of it, because I have devoured it 385 00:18:39.860 --> 00:18:43.780 like so much of her writing, is all about the process of writing 386 00:18:43.780 --> 00:18:47.860 recipes now. And why are all of the descriptions of them like 387 00:18:47.860 --> 00:18:50.420 cheesy green beans and things like that. 388 00:18:51.140 --> 00:18:55.275 And just sort of like the nature of very Marshall McLuhan y, the 389 00:18:55.275 --> 00:18:58.315 medium is the message, and what does it mean that the medium has 390 00:18:58.315 --> 00:19:03.115 now changed? And I just wanted to excitedly share so that it is 391 00:19:03.115 --> 00:19:06.155 also on your radar. Thank you for a fantastic show. 392 00:19:06.820 --> 00:19:08.580 Ben, I just looked this up, and I'm ordering 393 00:19:08.580 --> 00:19:09.540 it right now. 394 00:19:09.540 --> 00:19:10.980 I love this. Love this. 395 00:19:11.860 --> 00:19:14.340 The it also it would behoove me to mention 396 00:19:14.340 --> 00:19:17.780 specifically Caleb Herron's interpretation of this, which is 397 00:19:17.780 --> 00:19:21.855 the, like, just a a green crunch. Like, a a healthy green 398 00:19:21.855 --> 00:19:24.095 crunch. Like, it's Is there a 399 00:19:24.095 --> 00:19:26.255 name for that? For that, like God. 400 00:19:26.415 --> 00:19:28.095 Maybe I need to do another segment that's 401 00:19:28.095 --> 00:19:29.535 specifically food about this. 402 00:19:29.615 --> 00:19:31.055 In? It's enraging. 403 00:19:31.055 --> 00:19:34.015 It's so it's so wild. Like, I just think we need 404 00:19:34.015 --> 00:19:36.300 a little green, a little crunch, a little 405 00:19:36.780 --> 00:19:38.460 Like, it's every time you 406 00:19:38.460 --> 00:19:39.260 do this. 407 00:19:39.340 --> 00:19:42.460 But it is, like, there's something so it's 408 00:19:42.460 --> 00:19:45.100 like, picking up, like, a mosquito bite where, like, even 409 00:19:45.100 --> 00:19:48.140 saying it, I'm like, there's something evil that I'm, like, 410 00:19:48.140 --> 00:19:53.525 taking pleasure But, yes, thank you so much, Ben. This is 411 00:19:53.525 --> 00:19:57.685 awesome. I am so going to read this. This looks amazing. Also, 412 00:19:57.685 --> 00:19:58.645 cover is awesome. 413 00:19:59.525 --> 00:20:03.045 Eric Moore wrote in about my Brain Rot segment. 414 00:20:03.045 --> 00:20:05.950 Eric writes, I was listening to the Mailbag episode, and I was 415 00:20:05.950 --> 00:20:09.790 struck by what my mother used to call the cosmic two by four when 416 00:20:09.790 --> 00:20:11.870 I heard your discussion about Jay McGee's letter on 417 00:20:11.870 --> 00:20:15.310 WikiLeaping. I'm a professional independent trivia host, and 418 00:20:15.310 --> 00:20:17.950 what they were talking about is very nearly my initial 419 00:20:17.950 --> 00:20:21.135 brainstorming process when it comes time for me to write a new 420 00:20:21.135 --> 00:20:24.895 show every week, which got me thinking, am I just a paid brain 421 00:20:24.895 --> 00:20:30.975 rot shepherd? Uh-oh. I think trivia and brain rot have a sort 422 00:20:30.975 --> 00:20:34.015 of rhombus slash quadrilateral relationship. 423 00:20:34.540 --> 00:20:37.980 In that trivia, begrudgingly to my field, is a type of 424 00:20:37.980 --> 00:20:41.260 fulfilling brain rot in the modern sense, but especially 425 00:20:41.260 --> 00:20:44.620 when compared to AI slop brain rot, which at most generous is 426 00:20:44.620 --> 00:20:47.100 probably a highly irregular trapezoid in this metaphor. 427 00:20:49.025 --> 00:20:51.265 While I think brain rot is a well understood and accurate 428 00:20:51.265 --> 00:20:53.665 description of the umbrella term for activities that are 429 00:20:53.665 --> 00:20:56.865 capitalistically useless, but passively to semi passively 430 00:20:56.865 --> 00:21:00.065 enjoyable, I think where some of that distinction of fulfillment 431 00:21:00.065 --> 00:21:02.625 and where it loops into being a healthy thing pejoratively 432 00:21:02.625 --> 00:21:06.910 called brain rot comes in is in a, as Jay remarked, was this 433 00:21:06.910 --> 00:21:11.070 brain rot designed by human minds? B, are you engaging with 434 00:21:11.070 --> 00:21:14.110 it because you want to and not that it was served to you 435 00:21:14.110 --> 00:21:17.915 algorithmically slash systematically? And c, is this 436 00:21:17.915 --> 00:21:21.275 something that can be shared and communally experienced? Trivia 437 00:21:21.275 --> 00:21:23.835 is at least as old as the classics etymologically, but 438 00:21:23.835 --> 00:21:26.635 probably even older because even standing on the stage, there is 439 00:21:26.635 --> 00:21:29.675 nothing quite so enjoyably human as being surrounded by other 440 00:21:29.675 --> 00:21:32.330 humans fighting about answers to questions no one ever made you 441 00:21:32.330 --> 00:21:35.370 learn the answers to, and that you don't need to remember and 442 00:21:35.370 --> 00:21:36.650 utilize afterwards. 443 00:21:36.890 --> 00:21:40.810 Viva la brain rot that actually helps you enjoy living and being 444 00:21:40.810 --> 00:21:45.595 wonderfully useless if only for a moment. PS, AI is extremely 445 00:21:45.595 --> 00:21:48.795 bad at writing competent trivia questions, so my brain rot job 446 00:21:48.795 --> 00:21:55.835 is safe for the time being. I mean, I think like I don't know. 447 00:21:55.835 --> 00:22:00.560 I'm so maybe increasingly resistant to calling anything 448 00:22:00.560 --> 00:22:05.440 that doesn't leave you with a kind of device related hangover 449 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:11.585 afterwards, any form of brain rot. That like, for me, rot now 450 00:22:11.585 --> 00:22:16.225 has, like, a very particular feeling associated to it. 451 00:22:16.225 --> 00:22:21.425 And it is when I put my phone down and I, like, re check into 452 00:22:21.425 --> 00:22:24.850 the world, and I'm like, oh, woah. 453 00:22:25.570 --> 00:22:26.050 Hold on. 454 00:22:26.050 --> 00:22:28.050 Like, you just woke up from a really long nap and 455 00:22:28.050 --> 00:22:28.770 you'll 456 00:22:28.770 --> 00:22:31.170 go Oh, yeah. You feel sick and angry. Yeah. 457 00:22:31.170 --> 00:22:31.250 Yeah. 458 00:22:31.250 --> 00:22:33.090 Yeah. Stupid. Like a you're, like, kinda 459 00:22:33.090 --> 00:22:34.850 sweaty and angry. You went 460 00:22:34.850 --> 00:22:35.170 to bed. 461 00:22:35.170 --> 00:22:37.915 It was bright, and now it's dark, and you missed 462 00:22:37.915 --> 00:22:38.795 dinner, and what 463 00:22:38.795 --> 00:22:43.515 the hell? Stop. I had stuff I needed to do. Yeah. 464 00:22:44.235 --> 00:22:48.475 And so I'm like, if you're I'm open to the idea that, like, you 465 00:22:48.475 --> 00:22:51.995 can do things in space with people, and then afterwards be 466 00:22:51.995 --> 00:22:53.020 like, oh. 467 00:22:54.860 --> 00:22:57.740 And like, have a kind of social hangover. But like, 468 00:22:58.060 --> 00:23:01.820 fundamentally, is that brain rot or is that just, you know, 469 00:23:02.140 --> 00:23:07.100 social anxiety? Like, I think if you're with people, there's 470 00:23:06.595 --> 00:23:10.035 gotta be something just fundamentally additive and pro 471 00:23:10.035 --> 00:23:13.075 social about it, if certain characteristics of the scenario 472 00:23:13.075 --> 00:23:16.595 are given. That is just so different from sitting on your 473 00:23:16.595 --> 00:23:22.440 phone and like, doing nothing or doing something that sort of is 474 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:24.840 justified through the idea of doing nothing. 475 00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:29.560 I'm really enchanted by this description of 476 00:23:29.560 --> 00:23:33.320 trivia as information that you never learned intentionally. 477 00:23:33.320 --> 00:23:38.755 Because there's something I think, comparatively true about 478 00:23:38.755 --> 00:23:42.995 that with memes, and I can say, and they were roommates, and you 479 00:23:42.995 --> 00:23:44.995 know what comes next, and you know where that's from. 480 00:23:44.995 --> 00:23:46.435 And they were roommates. 481 00:23:46.675 --> 00:23:48.675 Yeah. There's something about that that's 482 00:23:48.675 --> 00:23:52.620 kinda sweet that is sort of communal, but it kind of I feel 483 00:23:52.620 --> 00:23:56.460 like in a way, it feels the most that way in the real world with 484 00:23:56.460 --> 00:23:57.420 other people. 485 00:23:57.660 --> 00:23:59.260 And I think there's still a big distinction 486 00:23:59.260 --> 00:24:02.220 between, like I'm gonna talk in generalities here, and like what 487 00:24:02.220 --> 00:24:05.605 I'm about to say doesn't apply to say, like, people who are 488 00:24:05.605 --> 00:24:08.565 gonna go on Jeopardy! Or like Don Caldwell from Know Your 489 00:24:08.565 --> 00:24:15.445 Meme. Watch yourself, counselor. The idea of trivia is that you, 490 00:24:15.525 --> 00:24:20.950 just through the way that you live your life and the sort of, 491 00:24:21.350 --> 00:24:25.270 like, you know, who you are, you are in possession of information 492 00:24:25.270 --> 00:24:28.630 that is at that particular moment and perhaps no other 493 00:24:28.630 --> 00:24:31.990 moment immediately useful to answer a question. Whereas I see 494 00:24:31.990 --> 00:24:35.515 a lot of people using their devices, being online, scrolling 495 00:24:35.515 --> 00:24:38.235 TikTok, scrolling Instagram, etcetera etcetera, like, using 496 00:24:38.235 --> 00:24:40.635 the excuse of being like, well, I gotta know what's going on out 497 00:24:40.635 --> 00:24:41.115 there. 498 00:24:41.275 --> 00:24:45.035 Like, I gotta sort of, like, actively dig through this pile 499 00:24:45.035 --> 00:24:48.110 of stuff and like kinda hurt myself a little bit in the 500 00:24:48.110 --> 00:24:51.710 process Mhmm. So that I know what's going on. I think unless 501 00:24:51.710 --> 00:24:55.550 you are a professional trivia person, the people who play 502 00:24:55.550 --> 00:24:57.870 trivia most regularly, and I have a lot of friends who do, 503 00:24:57.870 --> 00:25:01.755 they're not like studying. But they are studious people. 504 00:25:02.075 --> 00:25:03.995 My takeaway from all the responses we've 505 00:25:03.995 --> 00:25:08.395 gotten to your brain rot segment is, I think to notice that 506 00:25:08.395 --> 00:25:12.635 people have a very difficult time defining what productive 507 00:25:12.635 --> 00:25:15.700 uses of their time are as soon as they are asked to so without 508 00:25:15.700 --> 00:25:17.060 a capitalistic framework. 509 00:25:17.060 --> 00:25:17.300 Yeah. 510 00:25:17.300 --> 00:25:19.940 Yeah. Everyone answers that a little 511 00:25:19.940 --> 00:25:22.500 differently, or like makes a little bit of a different 512 00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:26.180 deflection on the answer, as if they cannot just wholeheartedly 513 00:25:26.180 --> 00:25:29.620 say, I enjoy doing this with my time, and so I do. 514 00:25:30.175 --> 00:25:33.135 Yeah. And and even though it makes me no money 515 00:25:33.135 --> 00:25:35.535 or whatever, like, don't feel guilty about that. 516 00:25:35.775 --> 00:25:36.335 Yeah. 517 00:25:36.975 --> 00:25:39.375 So with that, let's take a little break so I can go 518 00:25:39.375 --> 00:25:44.575 check my texts, my TikTok, my Instagram, all the things. 519 00:25:45.070 --> 00:25:47.310 Because I don't know what happened in the last twenty 520 00:25:47.310 --> 00:25:47.950 minutes, but 521 00:25:48.270 --> 00:25:49.550 Gotta go make sure. Maybe it could have been 522 00:25:49.550 --> 00:25:52.270 some guy. Gotta yeah. So sorry. We'll be right 523 00:25:52.270 --> 00:25:52.430 back. 524 00:26:09.325 --> 00:26:11.405 Welcome back everyone. I hope you enjoyed 525 00:26:11.405 --> 00:26:15.405 that break wherein you looked at a different screen and waited 526 00:26:15.405 --> 00:26:21.090 for us to come back. Next up, we have a response to a segment I 527 00:26:21.090 --> 00:26:26.210 did over the summer with Hannah Paivo about charts in the early 528 00:26:26.210 --> 00:26:29.970 nineteen hundreds, and the ways in which charting came from the 529 00:26:29.970 --> 00:26:34.285 cartographers of the world, historians, and the academics 530 00:26:34.605 --> 00:26:41.165 into the greedy little hands of business. And what that meant 531 00:26:41.165 --> 00:26:45.165 about the dissemination of data and its magical powers of 532 00:26:45.165 --> 00:26:50.220 prognostication. I have not heard this response at all, but 533 00:26:50.220 --> 00:26:51.980 Hans assures me I will enjoy it. 534 00:26:51.980 --> 00:26:54.540 So Hans, show me what I'm in store for. 535 00:26:54.940 --> 00:26:58.780 We got a message, an audio message from Talia, who 536 00:26:58.780 --> 00:27:01.260 we heard from a little bit earlier in the in the episode. 537 00:27:01.725 --> 00:27:04.765 They sent us this pretty incredible thing with the tag. 538 00:27:04.765 --> 00:27:07.405 They're all good segments, Brent, but I have listened to 539 00:27:07.405 --> 00:27:09.565 the charts one like four times. 540 00:27:12.365 --> 00:27:17.380 Hey, Inverpost. This is Talia. I'm coming to you today 541 00:27:17.380 --> 00:27:22.100 from a far noisier place than I normally do. It's Friday 542 00:27:22.100 --> 00:27:28.115 afternoon in the hot lab, which is where I work, which means 543 00:27:28.115 --> 00:27:32.835 it's time for the end of week monitoring sweep. And I have 544 00:27:32.835 --> 00:27:37.235 been thinking a lot about the formalism thing that Jason 545 00:27:37.235 --> 00:27:47.150 discussed and how much I have grown to have after working in 546 00:27:47.150 --> 00:27:50.510 HOT Labs for the last six or seven years, a sense of 547 00:27:50.510 --> 00:27:55.150 formalism based on the sensor, which is a radioactive sensor, 548 00:27:56.455 --> 00:27:58.615 which you potentially can hear in the background. 549 00:27:58.615 --> 00:27:59.895 I was wondering what that was. 550 00:27:59.895 --> 00:28:00.615 Yep. The 551 00:28:00.615 --> 00:28:03.655 afternoon monitoring sweep is to check whether or not 552 00:28:03.655 --> 00:28:07.255 the laboratory is clean and safe and if everything that should be 553 00:28:07.495 --> 00:28:11.890 active or hot, as we like to call it, is in its rightful 554 00:28:11.890 --> 00:28:15.570 place. So rest assured, I'm a professional and 555 00:28:15.570 --> 00:28:16.370 I know what I'm doing. 556 00:28:16.370 --> 00:28:17.090 Don't worry if 557 00:28:17.090 --> 00:28:19.650 it happens to sound noisy Okay. 558 00:28:19.650 --> 00:28:23.625 With chirps over here. But I thought that this would be 559 00:28:23.625 --> 00:28:27.145 a nice submission for the charts that Jason requested as this is 560 00:28:27.145 --> 00:28:31.705 a sensor that moves through the chart of space in the laboratory 561 00:28:31.705 --> 00:28:37.110 in the jerk. And I think the way in which these trips have come 562 00:28:37.110 --> 00:28:40.790 to mean something to me, but potentially don't mean anything 563 00:28:40.790 --> 00:28:47.110 to you, is is interesting as a discussion on, like, that that 564 00:28:47.110 --> 00:28:51.895 kind of idea of, like, how the form becomes or starts to mean 565 00:28:51.895 --> 00:28:57.735 something the more you interact with it. Anyway, I'm gonna stop 566 00:28:57.735 --> 00:29:00.455 talking and just do the sweep. Okay. 567 00:29:03.255 --> 00:29:06.890 So this message goes on for another 568 00:29:07.130 --> 00:29:10.090 Oh, Talia, get out of there. No. 569 00:29:10.090 --> 00:29:13.610 Another five minutes and it goes a lot of 570 00:29:13.610 --> 00:29:16.890 places. Talia's really doing the work over that. Let me play you 571 00:29:16.890 --> 00:29:19.695 just a couple of moments that happen within the next four 572 00:29:19.695 --> 00:29:20.975 minutes of Talia's life. 573 00:29:20.975 --> 00:29:23.215 Can I just read one one thing, Hans, before you 574 00:29:23.215 --> 00:29:27.935 start it? Yeah. Okay. A hot lab is a secure shielded room in 575 00:29:27.935 --> 00:29:31.855 hospitals or research facilities for safely handling, preparing, 576 00:29:31.855 --> 00:29:35.590 and storing radioactive materials used in nuclear 577 00:29:35.590 --> 00:29:37.510 medicine and therapy. 578 00:29:38.550 --> 00:29:40.710 Talia, just Okay. 579 00:29:40.790 --> 00:29:43.430 Our first radioactive audio clip. 580 00:29:43.510 --> 00:29:46.150 So apparently, they can just use their phone in 581 00:29:46.150 --> 00:29:49.030 there because this is these are these are two examples of what 582 00:29:49.030 --> 00:29:49.750 we get later. 583 00:29:55.045 --> 00:29:56.005 Is that good? 584 00:29:56.645 --> 00:29:59.125 I don't think so. They are a professional. 585 00:30:00.645 --> 00:30:01.925 Are a professional. 586 00:30:01.925 --> 00:30:04.245 Hearing that sound, does that feel good? 587 00:30:05.120 --> 00:30:08.560 No. It does not. Something about the form of 588 00:30:08.560 --> 00:30:09.040 it. 589 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:16.000 I don't think I like charts. 590 00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:19.605 I'm scared. I'm scared. So by the end of 591 00:30:19.605 --> 00:30:23.205 it, Talia gets into a little bit calmer area. 592 00:30:27.285 --> 00:30:29.685 This is even scarier to be seen. Yeah. 593 00:30:30.805 --> 00:30:37.890 I embraced. Is that good? 594 00:30:37.890 --> 00:30:40.050 Who is that? Don't know. Okay. 595 00:30:40.290 --> 00:30:42.210 Again, Talia is a professional. 596 00:30:44.450 --> 00:30:45.890 A secret third thing. 597 00:30:53.105 --> 00:30:59.025 Okay. Well, that's all the serious stuff done. As 598 00:30:59.025 --> 00:31:00.385 always, loving the show. 599 00:31:14.565 --> 00:31:15.925 Bizarrely stressful. 600 00:31:15.925 --> 00:31:16.805 Why is it? 601 00:31:16.965 --> 00:31:19.925 What is the part of my, like, animal brain that's 602 00:31:19.925 --> 00:31:21.605 like, that's bad. That's just bad. 603 00:31:21.605 --> 00:31:22.405 That's bad. 604 00:31:22.405 --> 00:31:23.285 Get out of there. 605 00:31:23.605 --> 00:31:25.605 I cannot overemphasize how much everyone 606 00:31:25.605 --> 00:31:29.605 was fidgeting and moving around frame that entire time. Nobody 607 00:31:29.605 --> 00:31:30.325 was comfortable. 608 00:31:30.620 --> 00:31:33.500 Oh, that's also only segments of it. I'm it 609 00:31:33.500 --> 00:31:35.820 literally go it's four minutes long of them just 610 00:31:35.820 --> 00:31:37.740 going through the room. That is truly 611 00:31:38.140 --> 00:31:39.660 Incredible. Wild. 612 00:31:40.220 --> 00:31:42.460 Speaking of unsettling and alarming sounds, 613 00:31:45.855 --> 00:31:52.255 Adam, sent in a note about my segment with Luis Lopez on Burnt 614 00:31:52.255 --> 00:31:58.735 Toast Audio, which if you do not recall, was this audio trend 615 00:31:59.190 --> 00:32:03.910 where people intentionally peak their audio and just blow out 616 00:32:03.910 --> 00:32:04.790 the sound. 617 00:32:05.990 --> 00:32:08.950 On the opposite end of mic clipping, I've noticed this 618 00:32:08.950 --> 00:32:12.150 thing where people will move their face away from a mic to 619 00:32:12.150 --> 00:32:15.355 yell, and it just has a very particular vibe to it that 620 00:32:15.355 --> 00:32:19.035 creates this mixture of both yelling and whispering as 621 00:32:19.035 --> 00:32:21.435 they're no longer speaking directly into the mic, but 622 00:32:21.435 --> 00:32:24.955 they're still talking at a loud volume. I feel like I see it a 623 00:32:24.955 --> 00:32:27.675 lot when people are making comments that are either open 624 00:32:27.675 --> 00:32:31.650 secrets or very private hush-hush secrets. I couldn't 625 00:32:31.650 --> 00:32:34.610 find any good analysis about this online, so I wanted to see 626 00:32:34.610 --> 00:32:37.890 what you all could dig up. Thanks. This is truly one of my 627 00:32:37.890 --> 00:32:40.530 favorite podcasts, and I look forward to every new episode. 628 00:32:40.530 --> 00:32:41.330 Oh, thanks, Adam. 629 00:32:41.330 --> 00:32:43.335 Thanks, Adam. Okay. This I'm obsessed with 630 00:32:43.335 --> 00:32:45.575 this because I know exactly what you're talking about. 631 00:32:46.615 --> 00:32:48.455 Can you do it? 632 00:32:48.855 --> 00:32:51.495 Yeah. So it'd be kind of like, I'm talking to 633 00:32:51.495 --> 00:32:52.455 you over here. 634 00:32:52.615 --> 00:32:52.935 Yeah. 635 00:32:54.230 --> 00:32:55.910 And then I move away 636 00:32:56.230 --> 00:32:56.790 Okay. 637 00:32:56.870 --> 00:33:01.270 And in interact with the space I'm in more 638 00:33:01.270 --> 00:33:02.310 pointedly. 639 00:33:02.310 --> 00:33:04.230 And while you're back there, you talk about how, 640 00:33:04.230 --> 00:33:06.390 like, someone is cheating on their significant other? Like, 641 00:33:06.390 --> 00:33:06.630 is that 642 00:33:06.710 --> 00:33:07.110 Yeah. Is that, 643 00:33:07.110 --> 00:33:08.950 like, the gossip you enter the gossip zone? 644 00:33:08.950 --> 00:33:09.430 You're like, 645 00:33:10.175 --> 00:33:13.695 so this celebrity has done something 646 00:33:14.175 --> 00:33:15.935 normal and innocuous. 647 00:33:15.935 --> 00:33:17.375 The smash cut, probably. 648 00:33:17.375 --> 00:33:19.695 Not that we would ever forget the terrible 649 00:33:19.695 --> 00:33:22.095 and horrible crimes they've committed. 650 00:33:22.590 --> 00:33:23.630 Smash cut back. 651 00:33:23.630 --> 00:33:25.710 So anyway, like, it's yeah. It's 652 00:33:25.710 --> 00:33:26.350 this Sure. Yeah. 653 00:33:26.430 --> 00:33:28.270 It's this, like, analog 654 00:33:28.430 --> 00:33:29.470 It's like the Greek chorus almost. 655 00:33:29.470 --> 00:33:32.590 Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's this analog way of 656 00:33:32.990 --> 00:33:38.365 cutting. It's an emphasis on what you're saying in the 657 00:33:38.365 --> 00:33:40.205 opposite, which is interesting. 658 00:33:40.205 --> 00:33:43.965 It's it's sort of posits, like, you know, like the 659 00:33:43.965 --> 00:33:46.685 whisper is like a very particular kind of emphasis that 660 00:33:46.685 --> 00:33:50.445 it's close and a change in vocal timbre. Like, you know, you 661 00:33:50.445 --> 00:33:53.120 can't really, the only way that you can hear this is like, you 662 00:33:53.120 --> 00:33:56.160 really have to get in there. But like, this sort of does the 663 00:33:56.160 --> 00:34:00.960 opposite where it's like, it forces you to yell, but it still 664 00:34:01.280 --> 00:34:03.040 sort of like enters this whole other space. 665 00:34:03.595 --> 00:34:05.595 Well and I think there's the an implication 666 00:34:05.595 --> 00:34:08.235 there that it's like, I'm yelling and no one can hear me. 667 00:34:08.395 --> 00:34:09.195 Oh, interesting. 668 00:34:09.195 --> 00:34:09.835 Like, no. 669 00:34:09.835 --> 00:34:10.555 I didn't think about that. 670 00:34:10.555 --> 00:34:12.635 Like, I'm saying this thing, like, don't 671 00:34:12.635 --> 00:34:15.275 you under like, it's sort of you, like, slapping your hands 672 00:34:15.275 --> 00:34:17.680 against the glass being like trying to warn 673 00:34:17.680 --> 00:34:18.320 you. Yeah. 674 00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:20.080 Yeah. I've tried to warn you. Don't like, 675 00:34:20.080 --> 00:34:23.680 don't you see I'm yelling and no one can hear me. 676 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.960 One of the things that I teach students when we 677 00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:31.465 work on audio only things and I talk about writing for audio is 678 00:34:31.465 --> 00:34:36.345 that grammar, as it is generally taught, is a written person's 679 00:34:36.345 --> 00:34:41.465 game Yeah. And not a reading or talking person's game. We do not 680 00:34:41.465 --> 00:34:44.025 talk with proper grammar, and we never will. If you wanna sound 681 00:34:44.025 --> 00:34:47.170 natural, ignore grammar. Of course, don't because you need 682 00:34:47.170 --> 00:34:49.970 to make it legible when you read it and things, but this feels 683 00:34:49.970 --> 00:34:53.410 like another entry into a grammar 684 00:34:53.410 --> 00:34:54.930 of audio. 685 00:34:55.410 --> 00:34:56.290 Oh, a 100%. 686 00:34:56.290 --> 00:34:56.770 I agree with that. 687 00:34:56.945 --> 00:34:58.865 Because there's also kind of a like, it's a 688 00:34:58.865 --> 00:35:00.145 parenthetical almost. 689 00:35:00.305 --> 00:35:02.385 Yeah. Like this what you're saying so much more. 690 00:35:02.385 --> 00:35:05.505 It is a parenthetical, but it's like a nuanced parenthetical. 691 00:35:05.505 --> 00:35:07.585 Yeah. Well, because it's not it's not just 692 00:35:07.585 --> 00:35:10.310 necessarily, like, I'm yelling and no one can hear me. It's 693 00:35:10.310 --> 00:35:13.190 almost like I'm yelling. I'm far enough away from the mic where 694 00:35:13.190 --> 00:35:16.950 there's almost this implication that, like, I don't know you can 695 00:35:16.950 --> 00:35:20.550 hear me. Like, whereas I'm right here right now, and I know that 696 00:35:20.550 --> 00:35:21.190 you can hear me. 697 00:35:21.190 --> 00:35:23.670 I'm right by my mic. I am intentionally recording my 698 00:35:23.670 --> 00:35:29.165 voice. Whereas if I move four feet back, there's this sort of 699 00:35:29.165 --> 00:35:32.925 implicit feeling of, like, maybe I'm saying this and I don't know 700 00:35:32.925 --> 00:35:33.965 that you can hear me. 701 00:35:34.765 --> 00:35:37.085 I wonder how much of it is derived from the 702 00:35:37.085 --> 00:35:41.085 practical concerns of, Yeah. These are things that you want 703 00:35:40.580 --> 00:35:42.820 to shout because they frustrate you, but that would make the 704 00:35:42.820 --> 00:35:45.460 audio sound bad, so you just move away a little bit. 705 00:35:45.540 --> 00:35:47.700 But with burnt toast, you'd be looking for 706 00:35:47.700 --> 00:35:47.940 that. 707 00:35:47.940 --> 00:35:48.180 Yeah. 708 00:35:48.180 --> 00:35:50.340 Like, staying close to your mic and blowing it out 709 00:35:50.340 --> 00:35:53.700 according to Georgia's thesis is actually a thing you could do, 710 00:35:53.700 --> 00:35:55.060 and it would mean something. 711 00:35:55.220 --> 00:35:59.905 Yeah. There is something this phenomenon of, 712 00:35:59.905 --> 00:36:01.985 like, either intentionally, like, okay, come closer, come 713 00:36:01.985 --> 00:36:06.385 closer, and then whispering into your mic or, like, going back 714 00:36:07.265 --> 00:36:12.410 reminds me of, like, millennials use of jump cuts Yes. Yeah. And 715 00:36:12.410 --> 00:36:13.450 the videos that they make. 716 00:36:13.450 --> 00:36:13.850 Sure. 717 00:36:13.850 --> 00:36:16.170 Mhmm. It feels very millennial to 718 00:36:16.170 --> 00:36:20.170 me. Uh-oh. That well, that's interesting to me 719 00:36:20.170 --> 00:36:22.810 because I feel like the millennial jump cut is much more 720 00:36:22.810 --> 00:36:28.005 effort Because in that case, you are actually cutting the video, 721 00:36:28.005 --> 00:36:30.885 like, are going in after the fact and cutting it. Whereas 722 00:36:30.885 --> 00:36:36.270 this is such a, like to me, this feels very very close to the 723 00:36:36.270 --> 00:36:39.230 medium that you see it in, at least that I see it in, which is 724 00:36:39.230 --> 00:36:41.710 more like short form video TikTok, that kind of stuff, 725 00:36:41.710 --> 00:36:45.550 vertical video, where the idea is that you can just make a 726 00:36:45.550 --> 00:36:48.030 video right now. I don't have time to do all this stuff. 727 00:36:48.765 --> 00:36:51.725 So I'm just going to get this message across as quickly as I 728 00:36:51.725 --> 00:36:52.205 can. 729 00:36:52.525 --> 00:36:53.325 Yes. Adam, 730 00:36:53.885 --> 00:36:55.245 this is so interesting. I could write an 731 00:36:55.245 --> 00:36:59.325 entire other, segment about this, and maybe I will. 732 00:36:59.325 --> 00:37:00.365 No. Wait. Hold on. 733 00:37:00.365 --> 00:37:00.765 Hold on. 734 00:37:00.765 --> 00:37:03.450 And maybe I will. A 735 00:37:06.410 --> 00:37:08.730 little while ago, I did a segment about how 736 00:37:08.810 --> 00:37:11.210 artificial intelligence is helping contribute to the 737 00:37:11.210 --> 00:37:14.490 aesthetic of new American fascism. And Dan wrote us an 738 00:37:14.490 --> 00:37:17.215 email, and Dan says, since listening to your episode about 739 00:37:17.215 --> 00:37:20.495 AI and new American fascism, I can't stop thinking about how 740 00:37:20.495 --> 00:37:24.335 the Fasc Bros' latest obsession of AI contrasts with and 741 00:37:24.335 --> 00:37:27.775 contradicts their previous obsession with cryptocurrency. 742 00:37:28.490 --> 00:37:32.410 Specifically, how the supposed advantage of crypto, its ability 743 00:37:32.410 --> 00:37:35.130 to substitute fiat government banking with cryptographic proof 744 00:37:35.130 --> 00:37:39.290 of work runs completely counter to the inherent premise of AI. 745 00:37:39.450 --> 00:37:44.345 What is at its core evidence of a lack of work. So much of the 746 00:37:44.345 --> 00:37:46.905 hype of crypto seems nominally predicated on the belief that 747 00:37:46.905 --> 00:37:50.025 the proof of work equals scarcity, and therefore 748 00:37:50.025 --> 00:37:52.425 legitimacy as a currency. 749 00:37:52.585 --> 00:37:56.520 But AI throws out that notion that proof of work matters at 750 00:37:56.520 --> 00:38:00.200 all, insisting that only the end result is of any importance to 751 00:38:00.200 --> 00:38:03.320 the audience. The fact that adherence to one of these 752 00:38:03.320 --> 00:38:05.880 technologies are typically adherence to the other belies 753 00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:09.475 crypto's stated necessity. If the ultimate goal of AI is to 754 00:38:09.475 --> 00:38:12.515 get work without any effort, then perhaps predicating an 755 00:38:12.515 --> 00:38:15.235 entire economic system on computational work isn't the 756 00:38:15.235 --> 00:38:18.595 democratic decentralized anti establishment tool we were told 757 00:38:18.595 --> 00:38:21.750 it would be. Perhaps even it's just another tool for 758 00:38:21.750 --> 00:38:25.110 speculating, scams, and buying sketchy drugs on the dark web. 759 00:38:25.110 --> 00:38:25.430 Okay. 760 00:38:25.430 --> 00:38:28.390 Listen. As someone with friends who buy a lot of sketchy drugs 761 00:38:28.390 --> 00:38:32.630 on the dark web, like, that part, let's, you know, let's let 762 00:38:32.630 --> 00:38:35.865 people buy their sketchy drugs. Everything else, hell yeah, Dan. 763 00:38:36.425 --> 00:38:38.505 Well, in truth, you should be buying sketchy 764 00:38:38.505 --> 00:38:39.785 drugs from your own 765 00:38:40.105 --> 00:38:42.105 community. Lately. 766 00:38:42.425 --> 00:38:44.745 Sores. You. You go You should be going 767 00:38:44.745 --> 00:38:50.950 to Providence. Yeah. I mean, I think that this 768 00:38:50.950 --> 00:38:53.590 is a set of people who generally is interested in one thing and 769 00:38:53.590 --> 00:38:56.150 it's political expediency. And so they will do whatever is 770 00:38:56.150 --> 00:38:58.790 politically expedient in any given scenario, and they're 771 00:38:58.790 --> 00:39:01.190 doing the politically expedient thing in both of these 772 00:39:01.190 --> 00:39:04.485 scenarios. The fact that those two things don't necessarily 773 00:39:04.485 --> 00:39:08.405 line up to form a coherent I don't even wanna call it 774 00:39:08.405 --> 00:39:09.045 ideology. 775 00:39:09.045 --> 00:39:13.685 A coherent line of reasoning is like, Dan, you have given this a 776 00:39:13.685 --> 00:39:17.125 thousand times more thought than any of the people who are 777 00:39:16.830 --> 00:39:18.910 interested in both of these technologies. 778 00:39:19.150 --> 00:39:21.630 Yeah. Yeah. Think the center of the Venn 779 00:39:21.630 --> 00:39:26.270 diagram between the two is what is an easy answer for how can I 780 00:39:26.270 --> 00:39:30.590 receive things from the world when I have absolutely nothing 781 00:39:30.590 --> 00:39:31.950 of value to give the world? 782 00:39:32.405 --> 00:39:35.765 Yeah. Yeah. I guess in that way, it's very 783 00:39:35.765 --> 00:39:36.565 coherent. 784 00:39:36.565 --> 00:39:37.765 Yeah. 785 00:39:37.765 --> 00:39:43.125 So we got a very interesting comment in, of 786 00:39:43.125 --> 00:39:46.800 all places, our subreddit, which if you did not know this 787 00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:51.120 existed, you should go to r/neverpost and join the 788 00:39:51.120 --> 00:39:54.480 community there. Make your voice heard. Tell us your thoughts. We 789 00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:56.800 are constantly reading it. Sometimes we might even comment 790 00:39:56.800 --> 00:39:57.200 in there. 791 00:39:57.200 --> 00:39:57.600 We're in there. 792 00:39:57.895 --> 00:40:00.375 We're in there, and I was in there when I found 793 00:40:00.375 --> 00:40:10.455 this comment. So, frequent, chat participant in our, live 794 00:40:10.455 --> 00:40:15.300 streams, which if you'd also like to, see our beautiful faces 795 00:40:15.300 --> 00:40:19.780 there, it is twitch.tv/theneverpost. User 796 00:40:19.780 --> 00:40:24.180 nondeterminist system wrote a really interesting comment on 797 00:40:24.180 --> 00:40:28.365 our subreddit about my episode that came out in October about 798 00:40:28.365 --> 00:40:31.485 digital witchcraft, Etsy witches, and the industry of 799 00:40:31.485 --> 00:40:36.205 witchcraft on the Internet. And they write, I had a few quick 800 00:40:36.205 --> 00:40:40.205 thoughts after listening to this episode. First, one thing that I 801 00:40:40.205 --> 00:40:43.005 may ruminate on and come back with a more fleshed out thought 802 00:40:43.005 --> 00:40:43.405 later. 803 00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:46.980 Mahegan Saint Pierre talked about acting as an intermediary 804 00:40:46.980 --> 00:40:50.500 between the living and the spirits. It occurred to me that, 805 00:40:50.500 --> 00:40:54.260 for most people, the Internet is a vast ethereal world with 806 00:40:54.260 --> 00:40:58.260 unpredictable agents whose will often requires interpretation 807 00:40:58.260 --> 00:41:02.055 and intercession. Maybe we need new kinds of spiritual 808 00:41:02.055 --> 00:41:05.655 intermediaries for our new realities. Or maybe we're 809 00:41:05.655 --> 00:41:09.095 already trying to think of the Internet as a spiritual place, 810 00:41:09.415 --> 00:41:12.055 and maybe some of our angst about the current state of the 811 00:41:12.055 --> 00:41:16.350 Internet can be thought of as spiritual. Second, and 812 00:41:16.350 --> 00:41:19.710 relatedly, I'd love to hear more from practitioners of other 813 00:41:19.710 --> 00:41:22.830 religions and faith traditions about how their beliefs and 814 00:41:22.830 --> 00:41:24.990 practices have been impacted by the Internet. 815 00:41:25.230 --> 00:41:30.285 Well, Alex Friedman, rabbi who wrote in to us, I'd be very 816 00:41:30.285 --> 00:41:33.405 interested if you have thoughts about this. Yeah. Yeah. I do 817 00:41:33.405 --> 00:41:35.565 think this is an interesting idea of looking at our 818 00:41:35.565 --> 00:41:39.885 relationship to the Internet as spiritual. I think it's that's 819 00:41:39.885 --> 00:41:41.245 certainly its own thing. 820 00:41:41.245 --> 00:41:45.890 I don't want to equate the industry and existence of 821 00:41:45.890 --> 00:41:51.010 witchcraft on the Internet with a broader spirituality about the 822 00:41:51.010 --> 00:41:56.610 Internet. But I do think there is there is truth in this 823 00:41:56.770 --> 00:42:02.505 feeling that the Internet does, by virtue of it existing through 824 00:42:02.505 --> 00:42:07.785 devices, but not in a particular place. It's sort of a this vast 825 00:42:07.785 --> 00:42:15.400 endless more conceptual space that there is a a desire to 826 00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:18.840 ground it, to understand it, to interpret it in a way that I 827 00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:22.840 think does feel similar to spiritual practice. There's a 828 00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:26.875 desire to, like, interpret, understand, have people who 829 00:42:26.875 --> 00:42:31.595 interpret it for us who feel more, like, authorities. 830 00:42:32.075 --> 00:42:34.395 And that's why I have to look at my phone for 831 00:42:34.395 --> 00:42:37.835 fourteen hours every day to make sure that I know enough to guide 832 00:42:37.835 --> 00:42:38.580 people through 833 00:42:38.580 --> 00:42:41.540 the Exactly. Exactly. I was gonna say I do 834 00:42:41.540 --> 00:42:46.820 feel I I worry that us on this call I mean, I certainly fall 835 00:42:46.820 --> 00:42:51.460 into that, where I'm like, I gotta I gotta learn so that I 836 00:42:51.460 --> 00:42:55.115 can I can explain? Mhmm. 837 00:42:55.115 --> 00:42:57.755 I would also say that what this made me think 838 00:42:57.755 --> 00:43:01.595 of is how sometimes people have a crisis of faith, where going 839 00:43:01.595 --> 00:43:04.715 to church every week, doing this thing doesn't feel the same 840 00:43:04.715 --> 00:43:07.755 anymore. It's not they're not getting what they used to get 841 00:43:07.755 --> 00:43:11.430 out of it. And that makes me think of how I feel about the 842 00:43:11.430 --> 00:43:14.870 Internet. I used to go to the Internet. When I would go 843 00:43:14.870 --> 00:43:16.630 online, I would feel a certain way. 844 00:43:16.630 --> 00:43:19.350 I would frequent certain websites, engage in certain 845 00:43:19.350 --> 00:43:23.685 content, whatever. And I'm always almost having a crisis of 846 00:43:23.685 --> 00:43:26.085 faith when it comes to the Internet. I don't feel the same 847 00:43:26.085 --> 00:43:30.885 anymore when I gauge in certain times of types of content, and 848 00:43:30.885 --> 00:43:35.205 I'm in certain spaces. And that makes me think of how maybe, 849 00:43:35.205 --> 00:43:39.950 yeah, the Internet is kind of a place that is very similar to, 850 00:43:39.950 --> 00:43:41.790 like, a spiritual practice. 851 00:43:42.270 --> 00:43:44.990 And which is also, like, getting actively 852 00:43:44.990 --> 00:43:48.590 worse. Like, you know Yes. I don't as I don't participate in 853 00:43:48.590 --> 00:43:50.910 religion too much, so I don't know how often that that 854 00:43:50.910 --> 00:43:53.595 happens. It certainly has famously happened in a couple 855 00:43:53.595 --> 00:43:56.315 places in The United States over the last thirty or so years. 856 00:43:56.315 --> 00:43:58.715 But, like, I think that's also part of it is that it's like, it 857 00:43:58.715 --> 00:44:03.115 is actually demonstrably getting less pleasant and harder to use. 858 00:44:03.675 --> 00:44:04.235 Mhmm. 859 00:44:04.235 --> 00:44:07.300 Yeah. Speaking of getting less pleasant and harder 860 00:44:07.300 --> 00:44:11.780 to use, unless you're a member, it's time to hear some ads. 861 00:44:14.420 --> 00:44:15.220 We'll be right back. 862 00:44:31.035 --> 00:44:34.075 Folks, I got good news for us. Finally. Finally, 863 00:44:34.075 --> 00:44:38.630 good news after all those ads. We got a Molly's Corner. 864 00:44:38.710 --> 00:44:40.950 Yes. Yes. 865 00:44:41.030 --> 00:44:54.025 I have no clue what this is. For anybody who is 866 00:44:54.025 --> 00:44:57.705 a new listener, Molly, my wife, occasionally calls in and asks 867 00:44:57.705 --> 00:45:00.745 questions or make statements that are completely unrelated to 868 00:45:00.745 --> 00:45:01.385 the show. 869 00:45:01.465 --> 00:45:05.945 Yes. Today, we hear from Molly Underground. 870 00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:12.880 Hi. It's me. I was just getting the m train up town from 871 00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:16.560 Delancey Essex Street. And one thing they've done, everything 872 00:45:16.560 --> 00:45:21.215 is install a screen that tells you on the m Platform when the f 873 00:45:21.215 --> 00:45:24.255 is coming because it's not in New York. These are trains that 874 00:45:24.255 --> 00:45:26.735 basically go on the same route that are on different levels of 875 00:45:26.735 --> 00:45:27.935 the subway platform. 876 00:45:28.335 --> 00:45:30.815 For the years, there's been one stairway between the two 877 00:45:30.815 --> 00:45:33.775 platforms where people would either stand at the top or stand 878 00:45:33.775 --> 00:45:36.770 at the bottom, look out for when the train was coming, and then 879 00:45:36.770 --> 00:45:42.290 communicate to strangers to say, come up here or go down there, 880 00:45:42.290 --> 00:45:45.810 and and people would essentially shave one or two minutes off 881 00:45:45.810 --> 00:45:49.250 their commute. Very important. But they since they've installed 882 00:45:49.250 --> 00:45:51.970 the screen, now you can stand on the m platform and see when the 883 00:45:51.970 --> 00:45:55.625 app coming. I assume the same as Shu downstairs. And it's just a 884 00:45:55.625 --> 00:45:59.465 bit sad to me, really, because I love that I love the forcing 885 00:45:59.465 --> 00:46:01.705 function of having to communicate with a stranger to 886 00:46:01.705 --> 00:46:04.345 figure something out in the city. 887 00:46:04.345 --> 00:46:09.930 And it made me wonder if any of you have examples of where, 888 00:46:09.930 --> 00:46:12.730 like, technology has arguably made your life better. It 889 00:46:12.730 --> 00:46:16.890 actually makes you a little bit sad because maybe it's the right 890 00:46:17.050 --> 00:46:20.250 some kind of human connection or something that was pleasurable 891 00:46:20.250 --> 00:46:25.115 to do that took longer than the way you do it now. Anyway, I was 892 00:46:25.115 --> 00:46:27.835 just thinking about that. So gladly. Know 893 00:46:28.235 --> 00:46:29.755 exactly what Molly's talking about. Is this 894 00:46:29.755 --> 00:46:31.435 clear to everybody what's going on here? 895 00:46:31.515 --> 00:46:34.235 Yeah. I think so. Yeah. I think so. Two two 896 00:46:34.235 --> 00:46:35.915 different levels of people talking to each other about 897 00:46:35.915 --> 00:46:36.795 which train is coming first. 898 00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:38.360 Yeah. And then they put it they put a screen 899 00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:39.640 in. You don't to do that anymore. 900 00:46:39.640 --> 00:46:43.240 Yeah. Molly trusting the screen is what I'm 901 00:46:43.240 --> 00:46:43.640 not sure 902 00:46:43.640 --> 00:46:44.840 about. Yeah. 903 00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:47.160 I find those screens generally are right 904 00:46:47.240 --> 00:46:50.280 unless they say, hey. I'm a screen. I'm broken. 905 00:46:50.825 --> 00:46:55.145 Nope. Which is Hey. Often. Often. So maybe No. 906 00:46:55.225 --> 00:47:00.185 Okay. But okay. To her question, does this make 907 00:47:00.185 --> 00:47:01.625 you think of another example? 908 00:47:01.705 --> 00:47:03.945 Absolutely. Something came right to mind 909 00:47:03.945 --> 00:47:09.070 when they installed checkout kiosks at the library. Oh. I 910 00:47:09.070 --> 00:47:11.150 love talking to our librarians. They're great. 911 00:47:11.150 --> 00:47:11.630 Yeah. 912 00:47:12.190 --> 00:47:14.430 Like, I loved going to the desk and, like, 913 00:47:14.430 --> 00:47:17.390 having a little chat, talking about books, and, like, getting 914 00:47:17.390 --> 00:47:20.670 recommended other books. And, like, I sometimes I did have to 915 00:47:20.670 --> 00:47:21.230 wait in line. 916 00:47:21.765 --> 00:47:24.165 Mike, that's a good one because I feel the same way. 917 00:47:24.165 --> 00:47:28.165 I think I'm on record on this show saying I don't use self 918 00:47:28.165 --> 00:47:29.765 checkout in lines. Oh, 919 00:47:29.765 --> 00:47:30.965 yeah. Interesting. 920 00:47:30.965 --> 00:47:33.525 And and a similar reason where, like and it's a 921 00:47:33.525 --> 00:47:36.085 similar reason to, like, what Alex was saying way at the 922 00:47:36.085 --> 00:47:38.810 beginning of this episode, which is, like, there's certain social 923 00:47:38.810 --> 00:47:41.690 contracts and the fact that people still wear their pajamas 924 00:47:41.690 --> 00:47:44.410 to the store and then can check out without interacting with a 925 00:47:44.410 --> 00:47:48.970 single person. It leads to this idea that these spaces are your 926 00:47:48.970 --> 00:47:50.505 living room, and they are not 927 00:47:50.745 --> 00:47:52.985 Bypass by bypassing all of the moments 928 00:47:52.985 --> 00:47:55.545 wherein they may be slightly judged. 929 00:47:55.705 --> 00:47:57.865 Yeah. Yeah. Hold on. Why is wearing pajamas 930 00:47:57.865 --> 00:47:59.465 to the store catching strays right 931 00:47:59.465 --> 00:48:00.665 now? Yeah. 932 00:48:00.665 --> 00:48:02.585 Hans is actually a Russian grandma that thinks 933 00:48:02.585 --> 00:48:05.300 that you should have a full face of makeup and red lipstick every 934 00:48:05.300 --> 00:48:05.460 time 935 00:48:05.460 --> 00:48:06.580 you leave silence. All 936 00:48:06.580 --> 00:48:07.300 of us. Right? 937 00:48:07.300 --> 00:48:09.300 All of us. Yes. All of us doing 938 00:48:09.300 --> 00:48:10.340 that. Yep. 939 00:48:10.500 --> 00:48:13.860 No. I this then makes me think of it's funny 940 00:48:13.860 --> 00:48:17.935 when when I was listening to Molly's Molly's Corner. I wasn't 941 00:48:17.935 --> 00:48:20.735 originally thinking of this, but the other day, was walking down 942 00:48:20.735 --> 00:48:25.055 the street and I saw a little restaurant in my neighborhood 943 00:48:25.055 --> 00:48:29.535 that basically deals entirely in online orders. Nobody ever goes 944 00:48:29.535 --> 00:48:31.695 in there and sits there. It's just picking up or getting 945 00:48:31.695 --> 00:48:32.655 DoorDash or whatever. 946 00:48:33.590 --> 00:48:36.630 I have certainly been someone who does this, but it does make 947 00:48:36.630 --> 00:48:41.430 me sad to see entire restaurants that are just completely empty, 948 00:48:41.430 --> 00:48:44.070 have all the trappings of a regular restaurant, have seats, 949 00:48:44.070 --> 00:48:47.030 have chairs of everything, and nobody's ever there because 950 00:48:47.030 --> 00:48:50.005 they're never going to be there because this has been determined 951 00:48:50.005 --> 00:48:51.925 to be a takeout restaurant. 952 00:48:52.005 --> 00:48:54.725 There's an incredible thread on the I 953 00:48:54.725 --> 00:48:57.045 believe the Bed Stuy, the neighborhood that I live in 954 00:48:57.045 --> 00:49:01.285 subreddit, where someone is like, hey, where are the good 955 00:49:01.285 --> 00:49:05.870 Indian food restaurants where people actually sit down in the 956 00:49:05.870 --> 00:49:10.910 restaurant Yes. And eat in the restaurant? I want I wanna go. I 957 00:49:10.910 --> 00:49:12.910 have a first date coming up or something like that, and I wanna 958 00:49:12.910 --> 00:49:15.870 go, and I don't want the two of us. We wanna get Indian food, 959 00:49:15.870 --> 00:49:18.865 but, like, we don't want the two of us to be the only people in 960 00:49:18.865 --> 00:49:19.665 the restaurant. 961 00:49:19.745 --> 00:49:23.345 Oh, And every single comment is like, oh, this place is really 962 00:49:23.345 --> 00:49:25.585 good. And then people being like, you didn't he doesn't 963 00:49:25.905 --> 00:49:27.185 yeah. But it's always empty. 964 00:49:27.185 --> 00:49:28.545 But it's a takeout restaurant. 965 00:49:28.545 --> 00:49:30.705 Yeah. Only just a group of guys on bikes waiting 966 00:49:30.705 --> 00:49:31.745 outside constantly. 967 00:49:32.040 --> 00:49:34.200 Do you think then it's this is kind of part 968 00:49:34.200 --> 00:49:38.200 of the bigger conversation that about convenience, and this is 969 00:49:38.200 --> 00:49:40.120 actually the pain of convenience? 970 00:49:40.120 --> 00:49:42.920 Yes. Absolutely. 100%. Yeah. The destruction of 971 00:49:42.920 --> 00:49:46.280 the sensual world at the the altar of convenience. 972 00:49:46.280 --> 00:49:46.600 Yeah. 973 00:49:46.600 --> 00:49:46.920 Mhmm. 974 00:49:48.655 --> 00:49:51.775 Jason? Yes? You look like you were gonna say 975 00:49:51.775 --> 00:49:53.695 something. I wanna give you a chance before we move on. 976 00:49:54.095 --> 00:49:56.015 I was gonna try to, and I haven't figured 977 00:49:56.015 --> 00:49:59.535 out how to use the altar pivot to land a religious button to 978 00:49:59.535 --> 00:50:02.975 move us on. Okay. Ended at the altar of convenience. 979 00:50:04.210 --> 00:50:08.210 Sir Suri is mouse in French, and mice inhabit 980 00:50:08.210 --> 00:50:09.410 churches. Church mouse. 981 00:50:09.730 --> 00:50:11.250 Mice are very religious. 982 00:50:11.250 --> 00:50:13.810 This is a well known fact. Mice love Jesus. 983 00:50:14.210 --> 00:50:14.850 All of this is. 984 00:50:14.850 --> 00:50:18.095 Mice love Jesus. Jesus. They're constantly 985 00:50:18.095 --> 00:50:19.535 telling me. Yeah. 986 00:50:19.535 --> 00:50:21.695 And we actually I think like most Ganesha 987 00:50:21.695 --> 00:50:24.095 statues, there is a mouse. 988 00:50:24.495 --> 00:50:27.455 I feel like I missed an entire connective step 989 00:50:27.455 --> 00:50:28.655 in this. Why am I here? 990 00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:31.560 I feel like we should just leave this in and 991 00:50:31.560 --> 00:50:33.640 then just talking about start talking about one word graffiti. 992 00:50:33.640 --> 00:50:34.600 Blessed are the meat. 993 00:50:34.600 --> 00:50:35.880 Okay. A mouse. 994 00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:39.720 What's the great or not the great mouse 995 00:50:39.720 --> 00:50:40.680 detective. This one 996 00:50:40.840 --> 00:50:41.880 Why are we talking about mice? 997 00:50:44.375 --> 00:50:45.415 What's this? The Jewish 998 00:50:45.495 --> 00:50:46.135 No one tell 999 00:50:46.135 --> 00:50:49.495 Jason. One. That's about mice. 1000 00:50:49.815 --> 00:50:54.935 Fievel Goes West is a Jewish movie? Yes. But 1001 00:50:54.935 --> 00:50:55.815 he's a cowboy. 1002 00:50:57.830 --> 00:51:00.470 Careful. Why are we talking about the cowboy? 1003 00:51:00.470 --> 00:51:01.350 That's okay. 1004 00:51:02.390 --> 00:51:04.630 How about this? Andy's a cowboy. 1005 00:51:04.630 --> 00:51:05.350 There you go. 1006 00:51:05.350 --> 00:51:07.990 We got a bunch of one word graffiti mostly from 1007 00:51:07.990 --> 00:51:08.870 the subreddit. 1008 00:51:09.670 --> 00:51:13.105 Good god. Alright. Yeah, gang. Hey. 1009 00:51:13.105 --> 00:51:15.745 Remember when I told you all to stop doing this last time? 1010 00:51:16.065 --> 00:51:19.745 Well, you didn't fucking listen, did you? I'm gonna rattle off 1011 00:51:19.745 --> 00:51:24.920 some one word graffiti for you, which to be fair, you all were 1012 00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:27.880 very good rule followers this time. Maybe it's because you 1013 00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:30.440 listened to an episode of Normal Gossip where Mike Rickenetta 1014 00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:35.240 talked about being a rule follower, but you're doing good 1015 00:51:35.240 --> 00:51:43.175 this time. Alright. Reddit user, vim dynamo, sent in Souris, s o 1016 00:51:43.175 --> 00:51:44.695 u r I s. 1017 00:51:44.695 --> 00:51:47.815 And in that thread are a bunch of people talking about this 1018 00:51:47.815 --> 00:51:51.410 word that is baffling to me. I'm not gonna spoil it. You gotta go 1019 00:51:51.410 --> 00:51:53.410 to the subreddit and figure out what the fuck Cerus is all 1020 00:51:53.410 --> 00:51:53.730 about. 1021 00:51:53.730 --> 00:51:55.250 It's good. There's a whole discussion. It's 1022 00:51:55.250 --> 00:51:55.490 great. 1023 00:51:55.490 --> 00:52:01.890 Next up, Vogie sends in p s y c psych. 1024 00:52:02.375 --> 00:52:05.495 Psych. On the side of, like, a transformer unit. That's kind of 1025 00:52:05.495 --> 00:52:05.975 fun. 1026 00:52:06.135 --> 00:52:09.255 With just pigeons and pigeons? 1027 00:52:09.255 --> 00:52:10.695 I don't think that's not 1028 00:52:10.935 --> 00:52:11.735 a pigeons. 1029 00:52:11.735 --> 00:52:13.575 That's are those assumptions? It's 1030 00:52:13.575 --> 00:52:14.935 something far more worried. 1031 00:52:20.030 --> 00:52:22.270 Those are bushcats. It's 1032 00:52:22.510 --> 00:52:24.590 I this image is spooky. 1033 00:52:24.670 --> 00:52:26.910 There's a darkness here. Yeah. 1034 00:52:27.390 --> 00:52:30.430 If Saff only sends in dong. 1035 00:52:31.045 --> 00:52:31.685 Dong. 1036 00:52:31.685 --> 00:52:33.365 Dong dong near soup. 1037 00:52:33.765 --> 00:52:36.325 Oh, yeah. There's a bunch of I didn't see 1038 00:52:36.325 --> 00:52:37.045 that ever. 1039 00:52:37.045 --> 00:52:39.525 That just makes it for me. Yeah. Dong near soup. 1040 00:52:39.525 --> 00:52:41.045 Campbell's cream of something. 1041 00:52:41.125 --> 00:52:44.100 Yeah. Oh, this next one rips so hard. 1042 00:52:44.820 --> 00:52:49.380 Todd from Montreal sends sends in and a 1043 00:52:49.380 --> 00:52:51.300 little Mario guy with a b on his hat. 1044 00:52:51.300 --> 00:52:54.180 I'm gonna say that this barely it is one word, 1045 00:52:54.180 --> 00:52:56.100 but, like, maximum effort. 1046 00:52:56.235 --> 00:52:57.675 It is a full wall mural 1047 00:52:57.675 --> 00:53:00.155 of graffiti. With, like, three d letters. 1048 00:53:00.955 --> 00:53:01.595 Carolyn 1049 00:53:06.075 --> 00:53:08.635 Thompson from Portland, Oregon sends in queso. 1050 00:53:08.715 --> 00:53:11.675 It appears twice. Queso queso, and it's stenciled on the 1051 00:53:11.675 --> 00:53:15.810 street. So in a few ways, you are pushing credulity, but I'll 1052 00:53:15.810 --> 00:53:16.610 let it in. 1053 00:53:16.690 --> 00:53:19.810 And it's yellow. Like queso. 1054 00:53:19.810 --> 00:53:20.850 Like queso. 1055 00:53:20.850 --> 00:53:21.890 We do like that. 1056 00:53:21.890 --> 00:53:24.050 I like that it's also in this very pleasing 1057 00:53:24.050 --> 00:53:24.530 triangle. 1058 00:53:24.975 --> 00:53:28.175 Like a chip almost. Yeah. Like a tortilla 1059 00:53:28.175 --> 00:53:31.535 chip. You know what? Cameron, this is good now. 1060 00:53:31.535 --> 00:53:34.175 I'm gonna forgive this being both a stencil and the same word 1061 00:53:34.175 --> 00:53:34.735 twice. 1062 00:53:34.735 --> 00:53:37.055 Wait. What's wrong with the stencil? Yeah. 1063 00:53:37.610 --> 00:53:38.570 Why is that a problem? 1064 00:53:38.570 --> 00:53:40.810 Jason's the, in charge of He's the decider. 1065 00:53:40.810 --> 00:53:41.050 Yeah. 1066 00:53:41.050 --> 00:53:42.890 Yep. There's lots of mostly, 1067 00:53:44.010 --> 00:53:45.370 we must cater to his whims. 1068 00:53:45.370 --> 00:53:46.250 That's so true. 1069 00:53:46.250 --> 00:53:48.330 I just feel like spray painting through a 1070 00:53:48.330 --> 00:53:51.930 stencil is not quite the spirit of one word graffiti. 1071 00:53:52.275 --> 00:53:53.795 Fair enough. Fair enough. 1072 00:53:53.955 --> 00:53:56.915 And finally, quirky spirit five nine eight 1073 00:53:56.915 --> 00:54:01.955 zero in the subreddit sends in a sign that appears to say shit 1074 00:54:01.955 --> 00:54:05.075 bottle on it, and one imagines someone spray painted something 1075 00:54:05.075 --> 00:54:06.275 to change it from what it once said. 1076 00:54:06.275 --> 00:54:08.570 There's a whole story. This is less than one 1077 00:54:08.570 --> 00:54:13.130 word graffiti. It is people adding a single horizontal line 1078 00:54:13.290 --> 00:54:16.810 to the signs for a town named Shillbottle. 1079 00:54:16.970 --> 00:54:19.210 Uh-huh. Knew it. Yes. 1080 00:54:19.290 --> 00:54:21.855 Jason, in fact, two months ago, you responded to 1081 00:54:21.855 --> 00:54:24.095 this saying, the purest entry. 1082 00:54:24.575 --> 00:54:27.215 Yes. We'll see if 1083 00:54:27.215 --> 00:54:30.095 past Jason agrees with the whims of present Jason. 1084 00:54:32.015 --> 00:54:34.495 Well, I myself feel like something of a 1085 00:54:34.495 --> 00:54:38.650 shit bottle right now. So I think that's as good a reason as 1086 00:54:38.650 --> 00:54:41.610 any to say, thank you all for your one word graffiti. You did 1087 00:54:41.610 --> 00:54:44.970 much better this time around. I'm proud of you all and my 1088 00:54:44.970 --> 00:54:51.195 holiday gift is for the next mailbag, you can send me two and 1089 00:54:51.195 --> 00:54:54.315 only two word graffiti. Oh. 1090 00:54:54.315 --> 00:54:57.915 Wow. Thank you all your little shit bottles out there. See you 1091 00:54:57.915 --> 00:54:58.555 next time. 1092 00:54:58.555 --> 00:55:00.475 Thanks for listening everybody. Done.