WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:08.160 Friends, hello and welcome to the Never Post 2 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:12.320 Mailbag episode four rainy season 2025 in which we respond 3 00:00:12.320 --> 00:00:14.800 to listener emails, comments, voicemails, and voice messages 4 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:19.205 about our segments. Folks, you know it because I've said it 5 00:00:19.205 --> 00:00:23.125 before, but I'm gonna say it again. We love to hear from you. 6 00:00:23.125 --> 00:00:27.045 It's why we do the show. Please do get in touch and tell us your 7 00:00:27.045 --> 00:00:28.245 thoughts on our segments. 8 00:00:28.325 --> 00:00:30.610 All of the ways that you can get a hold of us are in the show 9 00:00:30.610 --> 00:00:34.370 notes. Drop us a line. And if you don't, Georgia is gonna cry. 10 00:00:34.450 --> 00:00:35.810 I am. I'm crying right now. 11 00:00:35.810 --> 00:00:36.450 I've seen it 12 00:00:36.450 --> 00:00:38.210 happen. She cries. 13 00:00:39.330 --> 00:00:40.530 He said it was 14 00:00:41.605 --> 00:00:43.525 I'm your host, Mark McNetta. Joining me today 15 00:00:43.525 --> 00:00:47.765 in order of their spicy food tolerance, I assume. Woah. 16 00:00:47.765 --> 00:00:51.525 Ascending Hans Buto, n p s p. 17 00:00:51.525 --> 00:00:52.805 Yeah. I think that's right. I think that's 18 00:00:52.805 --> 00:00:53.045 right. 19 00:00:53.045 --> 00:00:53.205 I'm the 20 00:00:53.205 --> 00:00:55.205 old man of the group. So I got I got that 21 00:00:55.205 --> 00:00:57.120 heartburn coming in the night. 22 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.800 I didn't I didn't wanna lean really hard into the 23 00:01:00.800 --> 00:01:02.400 Midwest The Midwest. But 24 00:01:04.240 --> 00:01:06.640 As long as there's also lots of mayonnaise in 25 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:10.000 there, I would be like, hey. God. No. Hans. No. 26 00:01:10.985 --> 00:01:13.385 Take it back. My god. 27 00:01:13.385 --> 00:01:15.705 Next in line, Jason Oberholzer, NPEP. 28 00:01:16.665 --> 00:01:18.665 Yeah. I'm probably somewhere in the middle 29 00:01:18.665 --> 00:01:23.480 here. I'm looking at Georgia and I'm trying to figure out which 30 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:27.400 side of the line we're gonna be on. I can do it. I don't always 31 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:27.960 seek it out. 32 00:01:27.960 --> 00:01:29.560 So that's where in the middle I am. 33 00:01:29.880 --> 00:01:32.440 Georgia, and then next in line, Georgia Hampton, 34 00:01:32.440 --> 00:01:34.120 NP, p. 35 00:01:34.600 --> 00:01:39.475 I'm honored to have this position in this order. I 36 00:01:39.475 --> 00:01:44.755 do like spicy food. Spicy food doesn't really like me. Oh. So I 37 00:01:44.755 --> 00:01:48.915 do really enjoy it and I have fun eating it. 38 00:01:48.915 --> 00:01:51.050 What's your favorite spicy dish that you 39 00:01:51.050 --> 00:01:52.490 wish you could have more that you don't? 40 00:01:52.490 --> 00:01:57.130 Oh, god. I mean, a lot of like Indian dishes. It's 41 00:01:57.130 --> 00:01:58.010 worth the pain. 42 00:01:58.170 --> 00:02:00.970 It is. When it's spicy and tasty, you just 43 00:02:00.970 --> 00:02:03.210 can't you can't do any better than that. Georgia, 44 00:02:03.210 --> 00:02:03.930 would you do hot ones? 45 00:02:04.135 --> 00:02:07.095 Absolutely not. Okay. No. I hate that, but that's for 46 00:02:07.095 --> 00:02:08.775 different reasons. I hate food challenges. 47 00:02:08.775 --> 00:02:09.175 Don't 48 00:02:09.495 --> 00:02:10.775 like big interviews. That's too bad 49 00:02:10.775 --> 00:02:12.295 because, like, because I saw Sean 50 00:02:12.295 --> 00:02:13.095 at the Webby's and I 51 00:02:13.095 --> 00:02:15.415 was like, Sean, Georgia would Georgia would be 52 00:02:15.415 --> 00:02:16.135 on it. Listen. 53 00:02:16.750 --> 00:02:19.310 I locked eyes with Sean at the Webby's, and I felt we 54 00:02:19.310 --> 00:02:21.870 had a cosmic connection. So Sean, get at me. Would love to 55 00:02:21.870 --> 00:02:22.030 talk 56 00:02:22.030 --> 00:02:23.710 to you. As long 57 00:02:23.710 --> 00:02:25.310 as it doesn't involve anything spicy, we're 58 00:02:25.310 --> 00:02:25.790 good. 59 00:02:25.870 --> 00:02:30.005 No. No. No. It's my I just I I hate food challenges. I 60 00:02:30.005 --> 00:02:30.645 hate them. 61 00:02:30.645 --> 00:02:33.525 I don't like it. They kinda yuck me out. So I wouldn't I get it. 62 00:02:33.605 --> 00:02:34.325 Do it. 63 00:02:34.485 --> 00:02:37.365 Yeah. Hey, guys. Mailbag. Look at us. 64 00:02:37.365 --> 00:02:38.005 Wow. I 65 00:02:38.005 --> 00:02:43.525 think we're mailing it. I think I did it. 66 00:02:43.525 --> 00:02:43.845 I did 67 00:02:43.845 --> 00:02:44.485 a good job. 68 00:02:45.780 --> 00:02:46.420 Mike got 69 00:02:46.420 --> 00:02:47.060 the call. 70 00:02:48.020 --> 00:02:48.420 So you 71 00:02:48.420 --> 00:02:50.180 did it? See you on the other side. 72 00:02:50.180 --> 00:02:54.580 Alright. Let's mailbag. up, in response to a 73 00:02:54.580 --> 00:02:57.700 previous mailbag, and I would just like to aside here for one 74 00:02:57.700 --> 00:03:03.235 moment to formally acknowledge something that Jason has pointed 75 00:03:03.235 --> 00:03:08.595 out, which is that we get the most listener mail in response 76 00:03:08.595 --> 00:03:11.475 to or I shouldn't say in response to, I should say 77 00:03:11.475 --> 00:03:15.360 immediately following mailbags. Yeah. It's great. 78 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:18.320 Yeah. So even though you are writing in and talking to us 79 00:03:18.320 --> 00:03:22.320 about segments, we get most of this communication immediately 80 00:03:22.320 --> 00:03:25.680 following the publish of a mailbag. So I just wanna say, 81 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:26.640 that's great. Keep doing that. 82 00:03:26.640 --> 00:03:27.120 That's rad. 83 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:29.840 But you don't have to wait. You can reach out 84 00:03:29.115 --> 00:03:34.875 anytime you have a thought. Okay. So Hern Sushi wrote in 85 00:03:34.875 --> 00:03:37.435 after the previous mailbag and said, I just listened to the 86 00:03:37.435 --> 00:03:40.795 latest mailbag, and I wanted to say, fuck yes, RSS. Now I'll 87 00:03:40.795 --> 00:03:42.635 pause here and say, fuck yes, RSS. 88 00:03:42.635 --> 00:03:45.220 RSS. We did Yes. RSS. 89 00:03:45.220 --> 00:03:48.580 I am also still using a beautiful turquoise iPod 90 00:03:48.580 --> 00:03:55.380 mini and a Tungara gay open hardware iPod. Oh, yes. To 91 00:03:55.380 --> 00:03:58.180 listen to podcasts and music from Bandcamp. There are dozens 92 00:03:58.180 --> 00:03:59.300 of us. Dozens. 93 00:04:01.005 --> 00:04:05.165 And I just wanted to acknowledge or maybe not acknowledge, but to 94 00:04:05.165 --> 00:04:09.325 request. I wanna know about all of the weird, like, open 95 00:04:09.325 --> 00:04:11.565 hardware RSS gadgets. 96 00:04:11.565 --> 00:04:12.285 Yes. Definitely. 97 00:04:12.285 --> 00:04:14.510 Because like, this rules. 98 00:04:14.590 --> 00:04:16.830 Yeah. This is awesome. And I'm glad that we 99 00:04:16.830 --> 00:04:22.270 are slowly inculcating everyone into the RSS feed life. Okay. 100 00:04:23.230 --> 00:04:26.750 Next up, on the subject of platforms and hentai, 101 00:04:26.830 --> 00:04:30.715 Gabriel wrote in and said this, I've recently seen a chart on 102 00:04:30.715 --> 00:04:33.355 how ChatGPT is gobbling up the traffic from the biggest 103 00:04:33.355 --> 00:04:35.995 websites. I didn't verify it, but it seems right to me. 104 00:04:35.995 --> 00:04:39.355 ChatGPT doesn't really feel like the Internet to me. It's more 105 00:04:39.355 --> 00:04:42.660 like a tool that just happens to use the Internet, But I already 106 00:04:42.660 --> 00:04:45.540 had trouble thinking of some of the other sites as Internet 107 00:04:45.540 --> 00:04:49.380 websites, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Reddit, etcetera, are 108 00:04:49.380 --> 00:04:52.580 more like apps to me. I think that the Internet shouldn't be 109 00:04:52.580 --> 00:04:54.340 apps, but I guess I'm just old school. 110 00:04:54.785 --> 00:04:57.665 For me, the Internet is a website that I access in a 111 00:04:57.665 --> 00:05:01.265 browser on my PC laptop on my desk. Shout out to Mike who has 112 00:05:01.265 --> 00:05:03.425 to sit down with his laptop to write important emails. Still 113 00:05:03.425 --> 00:05:07.105 true. It seems like increasingly how people use the Internet is 114 00:05:07.105 --> 00:05:10.760 through apps on phones, and it just makes me wonder, what is 115 00:05:10.760 --> 00:05:13.960 the Internet? Am I just a boomer who is used to browsing actual 116 00:05:13.960 --> 00:05:16.840 websites like forums and blogs, and I should consider everything 117 00:05:16.840 --> 00:05:18.920 that needs an Internet connection to function? 118 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:22.600 Is any app that I have on my phone the Internet? Podcasts, 119 00:05:22.665 --> 00:05:25.705 chat GPT, console games, torrenting. What else is the 120 00:05:25.705 --> 00:05:29.145 Internet that I didn't consider? Bonus question. When I'm at work 121 00:05:29.145 --> 00:05:32.105 and I open an app on my phone to turn on the AC and the lights at 122 00:05:32.105 --> 00:05:34.825 home, which are all connected to my Wi Fi, is that the Internet? 123 00:05:35.270 --> 00:05:37.750 When my printer refuses to print because I stopped paying a 124 00:05:37.750 --> 00:05:40.710 subscription, is that the Internet? When I have to wait 125 00:05:40.710 --> 00:05:42.950 for ten minutes before I can start my car because of a 126 00:05:42.950 --> 00:05:46.230 software update, is that the Internet? Gabriel? Gabriel. I 127 00:05:46.230 --> 00:05:47.670 think those things are the Internet. 128 00:05:47.670 --> 00:05:49.750 I think it's all the Internet. It's all the Internet. 129 00:05:49.905 --> 00:05:51.745 But like derogatorial. 130 00:05:51.985 --> 00:05:55.185 Yeah. Yeah. Internet open parentheses not 131 00:05:55.185 --> 00:05:59.185 complimentary. Yeah. Internet parentheses threat. 132 00:05:59.185 --> 00:06:03.345 I mean, this reminds me of the there was discussion that 133 00:06:03.345 --> 00:06:08.070 happened many many years ago where it was like, what's the 134 00:06:08.070 --> 00:06:11.910 Internet versus the World Wide Web? Yeah. Like, back when this 135 00:06:11.910 --> 00:06:14.150 was like, you know, we were still sort of figuring out what 136 00:06:14.150 --> 00:06:19.750 this delimiter was. It was like you would go on Usenet, right, 137 00:06:19.750 --> 00:06:25.165 would be the Internet, but like www.yahoo.com was the World Wide 138 00:06:25.165 --> 00:06:28.925 Web. That was the and like, are all of these things the 139 00:06:28.925 --> 00:06:30.525 information superhighway? 140 00:06:30.845 --> 00:06:31.805 Oh, boy. 141 00:06:31.805 --> 00:06:34.445 Getting to your question, the immediate thing 142 00:06:34.445 --> 00:06:37.410 that I thought was like, yeah, all the things that need an 143 00:06:37.410 --> 00:06:39.570 Internet connection to function are the Internet, including like 144 00:06:39.570 --> 00:06:42.530 the Internet of Things. And then you call out the Internet of 145 00:06:42.530 --> 00:06:46.130 Things, which yeah. I think it's like the global network of 146 00:06:46.130 --> 00:06:49.810 machines, even if they're your refrigerator, it's all the 147 00:06:49.810 --> 00:06:50.370 Internet. 148 00:06:50.370 --> 00:06:51.090 Yeah. I agree. 149 00:06:51.090 --> 00:06:52.905 Yeah. Yeah. There's a good decade there, 150 00:06:52.905 --> 00:06:56.025 where like the Internet of Things was always looming in the 151 00:06:56.025 --> 00:06:59.225 think pieces as coming and arriving and life changing. And 152 00:06:59.225 --> 00:07:02.105 it turns out it just like kind of came and arrived and became 153 00:07:02.105 --> 00:07:04.970 everything and nothing really feels any different. 154 00:07:04.970 --> 00:07:07.050 And now my air conditioner is connected to the 155 00:07:07.050 --> 00:07:10.570 Internet and it's got a timer on it that I can change via an app 156 00:07:10.570 --> 00:07:14.170 on my phone to time when it turns on and off, but it doesn't 157 00:07:14.170 --> 00:07:17.290 it doesn't ever apply. Like no matter how many times I do it in 158 00:07:17.290 --> 00:07:20.795 the app, the actual appliance never behaves any differently. 159 00:07:21.195 --> 00:07:23.035 And that feels like the Internet. You know I mean? Like, 160 00:07:23.035 --> 00:07:25.355 that feels thematically right. 161 00:07:25.515 --> 00:07:27.755 But I do think there's sort of different designations 162 00:07:27.755 --> 00:07:33.640 worth being made here of the Internet of things, the social 163 00:07:33.640 --> 00:07:34.360 Internet. 164 00:07:34.520 --> 00:07:35.000 Right. 165 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:38.040 I mean, it's all the Internet, but the app Instagram 166 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:42.120 on my phone feels like a different Internet than the app 167 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:45.560 on my phone I use to change the color of the light bulbs in my 168 00:07:45.665 --> 00:07:46.785 light fixtures. 169 00:07:46.785 --> 00:07:48.545 But I think it's like, this is where this like 170 00:07:48.545 --> 00:07:50.705 the psychogeographic metaphors are useful. 171 00:07:50.865 --> 00:07:51.745 You know, like 172 00:07:52.065 --> 00:07:52.385 Like it does. 173 00:07:52.385 --> 00:07:55.665 Pittsburgh and Palm Springs are both The United 174 00:07:55.665 --> 00:07:59.265 States, but they're very very different places. I think, you 175 00:07:59.265 --> 00:08:01.265 know, the Internet feels similarly sometimes. 176 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:07.000 Definitely. Well, I think this dovetails very nicely 177 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:11.480 into some messages we got around my segment around tactility and 178 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:17.065 buttons and smartphones. And we got this message from Alec that 179 00:08:17.065 --> 00:08:21.385 says, hi, Neverpost. I finished Georgia's segment on tactility 180 00:08:21.385 --> 00:08:24.905 and smartphones with a thick yellow electrical wire in my 181 00:08:24.905 --> 00:08:31.410 hands. I was steadily coiling it in wide circles around a vacuum, 182 00:08:31.570 --> 00:08:35.410 finishing my nightly janitor work at Seattle based tech mega 183 00:08:35.410 --> 00:08:39.730 corp and wondering why I couldn't relate to this lack of 184 00:08:39.730 --> 00:08:41.970 touch, this void that needed to be filled. 185 00:08:42.505 --> 00:08:45.705 The answer came almost immediately. Rubbery plastic 186 00:08:45.705 --> 00:08:49.225 wire running through my fingers, threatening to burn them through 187 00:08:49.225 --> 00:08:53.225 the friction of its passing. Touch is a major sense in my 188 00:08:53.225 --> 00:08:57.620 line of work, only to sight. I can feel the coffee stain on 189 00:08:57.620 --> 00:09:01.300 your desk as well as I can see it. And more importantly, I can 190 00:09:01.300 --> 00:09:03.060 feel when I've wiped it away. 191 00:09:03.380 --> 00:09:07.060 Touching a sticky mess is not satisfying, but what I like 192 00:09:07.060 --> 00:09:10.020 about my job is the act of reaching out and changing the 193 00:09:10.020 --> 00:09:15.435 world around me bit by tiny bit. With each bag of trash, each 194 00:09:15.435 --> 00:09:19.675 stroke of the toilet brush, not only do I know I am doing 195 00:09:19.675 --> 00:09:23.915 something impactful, but my body knows it too. When I spend too 196 00:09:23.915 --> 00:09:27.310 long on my phone, some part of myself feels adrift in the sea 197 00:09:27.310 --> 00:09:30.830 of content, floating further and further away from the pile of 198 00:09:30.830 --> 00:09:34.990 meat and bones lying in my bed. I think the need for tactile 199 00:09:34.990 --> 00:09:38.750 experiences is very high, both as a way for our minds to stay 200 00:09:38.750 --> 00:09:42.325 grounded within our bodies, and as a way for our bodies to get 201 00:09:42.325 --> 00:09:45.445 the feedback that they have a purpose. That they are not just 202 00:09:45.445 --> 00:09:49.125 for ferrying a brain and a thumb around to look at the next 203 00:09:49.125 --> 00:09:49.685 screen. 204 00:09:50.165 --> 00:09:53.525 That's a very long way of saying that I love buttons, and I think 205 00:09:53.525 --> 00:09:57.000 they're fun to press. Thanks for the thought provoking episode as 206 00:09:57.000 --> 00:09:57.560 always. 207 00:09:58.360 --> 00:09:59.480 Yeah. of all. 208 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:00.840 Fucking shouts to Alex. 209 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:02.360 That was great. 210 00:10:02.760 --> 00:10:05.160 Beautifully beautifully written. 211 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:05.800 Yes. 212 00:10:05.800 --> 00:10:07.880 And I mean, I completely agree with you. I 213 00:10:07.880 --> 00:10:11.225 think what you're describing when you start feeling adrift 214 00:10:11.225 --> 00:10:14.105 from your actual physical body is something I struggle with 215 00:10:14.105 --> 00:10:17.945 constantly because I am online so much, because I'm interfacing 216 00:10:17.945 --> 00:10:22.745 with screens so much more than I'm doing something, I would 217 00:10:22.745 --> 00:10:26.840 say, like intentional with my body, with my hands, with my 218 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:27.880 physical self. 219 00:10:28.280 --> 00:10:30.920 This reminds me of when I used to work in 220 00:10:30.920 --> 00:10:35.480 restaurants a lot. And my wife, who was then my girlfriend, we 221 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:38.695 were just starting to date, worked in an office, and she 222 00:10:38.695 --> 00:10:41.015 would say, sometimes I really like doing dishes, and I would 223 00:10:41.015 --> 00:10:45.575 say, no. And she would say, all of my projects are long term 224 00:10:45.575 --> 00:10:48.135 projects that never have any resolution, but when I do a 225 00:10:48.135 --> 00:10:53.260 dish, I wash it, I put it down, I dry it, and it's done. And 226 00:10:53.260 --> 00:10:55.740 it's like that same sort of impulse of, ugh, I think I can 227 00:10:55.740 --> 00:10:58.940 touch rather than the thing that swirls around me, I think is a 228 00:10:58.940 --> 00:11:00.460 is a strong inclination. 229 00:11:00.700 --> 00:11:03.745 This is something I think about a lot with jobs I've 230 00:11:03.745 --> 00:11:06.785 had in the past. When I was an undergrad, I was the lab 231 00:11:06.785 --> 00:11:10.945 assistant in a dark room for multiple years and was 232 00:11:10.945 --> 00:11:14.305 responsible for mixing the chemistry together that was used 233 00:11:14.305 --> 00:11:18.470 in the black and white darkroom. And even I mean, the act of 234 00:11:18.470 --> 00:11:21.510 printing a photograph in a darkroom is so physical. You 235 00:11:21.510 --> 00:11:24.310 specifically cannot have a phone out because it will destroy your 236 00:11:24.310 --> 00:11:30.305 paper. Even I was a barista when I moved to Chicago, and the the 237 00:11:30.545 --> 00:11:33.905 experience of that job is so physical and so physical in a 238 00:11:33.905 --> 00:11:38.465 way that kind of negates the possibility of using screens, 239 00:11:38.465 --> 00:11:41.800 which is something I find exponentially more helpful for 240 00:11:41.800 --> 00:11:44.360 me when it's like, no, actually, you can't. 241 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:47.480 Mhmm. I think part of what feels good when I 242 00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:50.680 spend like a weekend making music with the fellows that I 243 00:11:50.680 --> 00:11:54.360 record with is that I cannot touch my phone because my hands 244 00:11:54.520 --> 00:11:58.175 are busy. Like Mhmm. They're on instruments. I cannot use it. 245 00:11:59.135 --> 00:12:01.535 And that is very satisfying. The other thing that's made me think 246 00:12:01.535 --> 00:12:04.975 of sort of like in a psycho spatial sense, if not psycho 247 00:12:04.975 --> 00:12:08.015 geographic, is that when I started doing podcasts after 248 00:12:08.015 --> 00:12:12.990 being a writer for a while, podcasting felt more spatial and 249 00:12:12.990 --> 00:12:16.110 tactile to me in a way that's sort of like reminiscent of the 250 00:12:16.110 --> 00:12:19.310 way Hans, your wife was saying that like dishes is a job you 251 00:12:19.310 --> 00:12:22.030 can finish. Like podcast is a job you can finish because 252 00:12:22.030 --> 00:12:24.750 there's so much raw material and you move it around and you drag 253 00:12:24.750 --> 00:12:27.365 it and you cut it. You do all these things that like writing 254 00:12:27.365 --> 00:12:29.685 is just the moving of ideas around and they could be 255 00:12:29.685 --> 00:12:32.725 anything. Like podcast has material. 256 00:12:32.725 --> 00:12:36.325 There's actually materiality to it. So I felt more grounded 257 00:12:36.325 --> 00:12:39.590 doing also just stare at my screen digital work because it 258 00:12:39.590 --> 00:12:42.950 was a different kind of stare at my screen digital ideal work. 259 00:12:42.950 --> 00:12:43.910 That's interesting. 260 00:12:44.150 --> 00:12:47.110 Yeah. Mean, sort of materialize writing 261 00:12:47.350 --> 00:12:47.910 Right. 262 00:12:47.830 --> 00:12:51.270 Into clips that you have to move around, that you 263 00:12:51.270 --> 00:12:55.045 cut, that you place, that you organize. Yeah. There's 264 00:12:55.045 --> 00:12:57.925 something to that that makes it feel much more Yeah. I mean, 265 00:12:57.925 --> 00:12:58.165 tactile 266 00:12:58.245 --> 00:12:58.405 Yeah. 267 00:12:58.405 --> 00:12:58.805 In a way. 268 00:12:58.805 --> 00:12:59.765 Much more satisfying. 269 00:13:01.125 --> 00:13:05.365 So we actually got a lot of messages around mods and 270 00:13:05.365 --> 00:13:10.570 add ons that you can attach to your devices to make them feel 271 00:13:10.570 --> 00:13:13.610 more tactile and have more sensation to them. And one in 272 00:13:13.610 --> 00:13:17.210 particular that I wanted to bring here is an audio clip from 273 00:13:17.210 --> 00:13:17.930 Tim. 274 00:13:18.410 --> 00:13:20.730 As a motion graphic artist, I do a lot of your digital 275 00:13:20.730 --> 00:13:23.655 illustrations so that I can get into my animation software of 276 00:13:23.655 --> 00:13:27.495 choice faster. And within the last few years, swapped to 277 00:13:27.495 --> 00:13:29.655 Procreate on the iPad for that specifically because of how 278 00:13:29.655 --> 00:13:32.775 powerful the Apple Pencil is versus, you know, using your 279 00:13:32.775 --> 00:13:35.255 finger or just being on a Wacom which doesn't have a screen in 280 00:13:35.255 --> 00:13:39.130 it, which was my go to for many years. And initially those touch 281 00:13:39.130 --> 00:13:41.930 interface buttons where you're zooming in and out with pinches 282 00:13:41.930 --> 00:13:44.650 and touching four fingers at once to do certain things felt 283 00:13:44.650 --> 00:13:47.530 like magic and I really enjoyed that experience. But then no 284 00:13:47.530 --> 00:13:49.290 matter what I changed in the settings, would always be 285 00:13:49.290 --> 00:13:52.090 undoing by accident with the palm registration turned off and 286 00:13:52.090 --> 00:13:54.145 it was infuriating that all these touch commands actually 287 00:13:54.145 --> 00:13:57.665 became a hindrance to my process and after a bit of googling 288 00:13:57.665 --> 00:14:00.065 found out that there's a large contingent of the illustration 289 00:14:00.065 --> 00:14:03.905 community that uses a party controller called the eight Bit 290 00:14:03.905 --> 00:14:08.090 Do because you can map different key shortcuts to each button. So 291 00:14:08.090 --> 00:14:10.570 there are like number pads, bluetooth number pads that you 292 00:14:10.570 --> 00:14:13.290 can buy from Amazon but they're pre programmed and I didn't like 293 00:14:13.290 --> 00:14:16.410 the bulkiness of it and this tiny little controller just 294 00:14:16.410 --> 00:14:20.265 seems so much more appealing to me so I got one recently, mapped 295 00:14:20.265 --> 00:14:22.265 all of the keyboard shortcuts and Procreate to it and 296 00:14:22.265 --> 00:14:25.065 honestly, like my illustration process is so much better for it 297 00:14:25.065 --> 00:14:27.945 because you still need to, you know, pinch the zoom, that's 298 00:14:27.945 --> 00:14:30.105 still natural part of it, but being able to like press buttons 299 00:14:30.105 --> 00:14:32.990 to swap the brushes, swap the colors, really enhance the 300 00:14:32.990 --> 00:14:35.070 drawing process for me specifically, and it was such an 301 00:14:35.070 --> 00:14:38.190 interesting thing because this eight bit do is like completely 302 00:14:38.190 --> 00:14:38.910 programmable. 303 00:14:38.910 --> 00:14:42.270 It's something that was made for gaming and now is becoming a way 304 00:14:42.270 --> 00:14:45.870 to act activity back to other processes on the device. And me, 305 00:14:45.870 --> 00:14:48.525 I'm going, you can add different profiles to this thing. What 306 00:14:48.525 --> 00:14:50.925 else can I actually add keyboard shortcuts to to improve my 307 00:14:50.925 --> 00:14:53.405 experience with the touchscreen interface? And it's like, can I 308 00:14:53.405 --> 00:14:56.045 use this to start driving music when I'm listening in the next 309 00:14:56.045 --> 00:14:58.045 room or something? Like, it's actually opened a lot of 310 00:14:58.045 --> 00:15:00.205 opportunities that I just wanna start experimenting with after 311 00:15:00.205 --> 00:15:02.285 it enhanced my illustration experience so much. 312 00:15:03.370 --> 00:15:05.930 I think this is so interesting, specifically 313 00:15:05.930 --> 00:15:09.130 because the world of digital illustration is one where 314 00:15:09.130 --> 00:15:13.690 tactility is so at the forefront of the conversation. I mean, the 315 00:15:13.690 --> 00:15:20.095 mention of, like, Wacom tablets, the the texture of the screen 316 00:15:20.095 --> 00:15:22.975 that you're using is often something that people will like 317 00:15:22.975 --> 00:15:28.815 modify. So you can find tablets or even almost like films that 318 00:15:28.815 --> 00:15:31.615 you can put over tablets that make it feel more like you are 319 00:15:31.615 --> 00:15:33.740 drawing on paper, even if you're not. 320 00:15:33.740 --> 00:15:34.540 I believe that. 321 00:15:34.540 --> 00:15:37.980 That's cool. Mike, you're a big route your 322 00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:41.660 own keypads macros sort of guy, aren't you? 323 00:15:41.740 --> 00:15:44.700 Yeah. I was gonna say, I relate to this really 324 00:15:44.700 --> 00:15:50.075 hard because I spent probably about a full year, maybe like 325 00:15:50.075 --> 00:15:54.875 three or four years ago, trying to figure out what the most 326 00:15:54.875 --> 00:15:58.715 efficient way for me to edit audio and sound design is. And 327 00:15:58.715 --> 00:16:03.355 like, it turns out, yeah, that it's like it really is like 328 00:16:02.770 --> 00:16:06.770 having one hand that is the tool's hand. So, you know, 329 00:16:06.770 --> 00:16:09.810 that's like on the trackball mouse. And then the other hand 330 00:16:09.810 --> 00:16:12.210 is just is switching tools. 331 00:16:12.930 --> 00:16:16.835 So I just have a bank of buttons and a few knobs that switch 332 00:16:16.835 --> 00:16:20.995 between what the tools are, and it's just like I remember when I 333 00:16:21.155 --> 00:16:24.435 got it set up and I started doing it, I was like, oh, shit. 334 00:16:24.435 --> 00:16:28.115 Okay. Yeah. Like, this is sort of how you're supposed to do 335 00:16:28.115 --> 00:16:31.630 this. And it really it drove home for me this idea that it's 336 00:16:31.630 --> 00:16:36.030 like, there is no knowing things without the body. 337 00:16:36.110 --> 00:16:41.390 That, like, the body is just really so intimately involved in 338 00:16:41.390 --> 00:16:46.425 knowledge. And, like, not just, like, getting the work done, but 339 00:16:46.425 --> 00:16:49.785 in, like, knowing what to do next and feeling what the next 340 00:16:49.785 --> 00:16:53.625 step in your process is and knowing the solutions to 341 00:16:53.625 --> 00:16:58.160 problems and, like, building your skills. It's all just so 342 00:16:58.160 --> 00:17:02.240 embodied, and so much of technology just throws all that 343 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:02.640 out the window. 344 00:17:02.640 --> 00:17:03.920 It says, like Yeah. 345 00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:06.960 Flat nothing, touching nothing, all chick lit 346 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:08.080 Feeling nothing. 347 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:10.475 Smooth. And also, like, freeze cognitive 348 00:17:10.475 --> 00:17:13.195 load because, like, when you are just interacting with an 349 00:17:13.195 --> 00:17:16.555 interface with, like, a mouse or a touch pad or only that, like, 350 00:17:16.555 --> 00:17:19.835 you are making cognitive level they give to think through, oh, 351 00:17:19.835 --> 00:17:23.200 I'm switching to the faders for this and then it's going down by 352 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:27.040 however many d b's I can pull rather than, like, left hand 353 00:17:27.040 --> 00:17:29.840 turns knob down. Like, loud knob go down. 354 00:17:29.840 --> 00:17:32.160 Yeah. And that knob does and like the important 355 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:33.120 thing And that's the only thing that knob 356 00:17:33.120 --> 00:17:33.360 does. 357 00:17:33.360 --> 00:17:34.640 That knob does. Make it go down. 358 00:17:35.125 --> 00:17:36.965 Yeah. And so your body can just be like, go 359 00:17:36.965 --> 00:17:39.765 down. Yeah. And you can focus on thinking about like creative 360 00:17:39.765 --> 00:17:41.605 ideas or the other thing you're supposed to be thinking about 361 00:17:41.605 --> 00:17:43.685 rather than like, okay. So sub menu three. 362 00:17:43.685 --> 00:17:45.845 Yeah. Exactly. So I think I got to this point 363 00:17:45.845 --> 00:17:50.040 because I was like, know, production and stuff and like 364 00:17:50.040 --> 00:17:53.400 worked in recording studios, and I was like, a mixing desk is 365 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:57.160 stupid. It is like an ancient piece of technology that does 366 00:17:57.160 --> 00:17:59.640 not represent the way that I work or the way that I wanna 367 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:05.645 work. However, it is a thing that has one not like, each 368 00:18:05.645 --> 00:18:08.765 thing that's on it has a function and that's important. 369 00:18:08.765 --> 00:18:11.565 And so, yeah, like recapturing that is is great. 370 00:18:11.965 --> 00:18:15.580 I think also in the opposite way, that's what drives 371 00:18:15.580 --> 00:18:21.020 me so nuts about, you know, your printer having an app and the 372 00:18:21.020 --> 00:18:25.580 idea of having to wait for your card at work because there's a 373 00:18:25.580 --> 00:18:31.155 software update. Like, you conceptualize everything and 374 00:18:31.155 --> 00:18:35.155 separate it from the physical that much, it's too much. It's 375 00:18:35.155 --> 00:18:40.595 too I I I long for a return to one button do one thing. 376 00:18:40.595 --> 00:18:43.250 Yeah. Your printer is never gonna work, but 377 00:18:43.250 --> 00:18:46.690 at least it's not working in a one to one relationship with 378 00:18:46.690 --> 00:18:47.250 you. 379 00:18:47.490 --> 00:18:52.130 Yes. Exactly. Last thing on this is a message from 380 00:18:52.130 --> 00:18:52.770 Tom. 381 00:18:53.250 --> 00:18:55.650 Hey, Never Post Gro. It's Tom Lum. Miss you guys. 382 00:18:56.045 --> 00:19:00.765 Regarding touchscreens from episode 32, Smooth Moves, I just 383 00:19:00.765 --> 00:19:05.165 wanted to share a parable that I always think of when it comes to 384 00:19:05.165 --> 00:19:10.445 bad touchscreen interfaces, especially touchscreens on 385 00:19:09.300 --> 00:19:14.100 keyboards like the Apple Touch Bar that I I despise. So at the 386 00:19:14.100 --> 00:19:17.860 Museum of Pop Culture in Seattle, formerly the EMP 387 00:19:17.860 --> 00:19:22.820 Museum, there is a small silly video game called Tenya Wanya 388 00:19:22.820 --> 00:19:23.380 Teens. 389 00:19:23.665 --> 00:19:26.385 It was created by Keita Takahashi, who was the director 390 00:19:26.385 --> 00:19:30.145 of Katamari Damacy, one of the best games ever made. And in 391 00:19:30.145 --> 00:19:33.265 this game, Tenya Wanya Teens, you play a teenager going 392 00:19:33.265 --> 00:19:39.425 through a speedrun of their day, but your controls are a grid of 393 00:19:38.830 --> 00:19:43.870 16 colorful arcade buttons, with each color corresponding to a 394 00:19:43.870 --> 00:19:48.670 hyper specific action. Like red might be brushing your teeth, 395 00:19:48.830 --> 00:19:52.670 green might be playing guitar, and blue might be confessing 396 00:19:52.670 --> 00:19:55.245 your love. These are all actual actions in the game, and there 397 00:19:55.245 --> 00:19:58.765 are so many more. And as you are speedrunning through your day as 398 00:19:58.765 --> 00:20:02.205 a teenager, you have to do the right action at the right time. 399 00:20:02.445 --> 00:20:06.925 The catch being that randomly, the colors of the buttons will 400 00:20:06.925 --> 00:20:10.100 swap out from beneath them, so you'll go to hit the button to 401 00:20:10.100 --> 00:20:12.420 confess your love to your crush, but then it will have switched 402 00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:16.260 to brushing your teeth, or you will accidentally confess your 403 00:20:16.260 --> 00:20:19.140 love in front of the whole class. It's a really great 404 00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:23.245 playable metaphor for the awkwardness of being a teen, 405 00:20:23.245 --> 00:20:26.925 that you don't feel quite in control of your body, or that 406 00:20:26.925 --> 00:20:28.845 you feel like you're always doing the wrong thing at the 407 00:20:28.845 --> 00:20:34.400 wrong time. But the thing is, that's exactly what a bad touch 408 00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:38.160 interface is, but not on purpose. Like, here it was used 409 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:41.680 as a pastiche and a joke, but like, any touch interface that 410 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:46.320 changes when you're not looking is a Tenya Wanya teen situation. 411 00:20:46.560 --> 00:20:48.240 And of course it's even worse in a car. 412 00:20:48.495 --> 00:20:51.775 So, of course, touch surfaces can be great, especially when 413 00:20:51.775 --> 00:20:55.215 what you're looking at is what you're touching. But you have to 414 00:20:55.215 --> 00:20:59.215 be careful, you're not literally creating a teniawanya teen 415 00:20:59.215 --> 00:21:02.960 situation. Anyway, congrats on the Webby. I don't want to take 416 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:05.680 all the credit, but if we're being honest, I think my intro 417 00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:07.760 at the start of the episode really did a lot of heavy 418 00:21:07.760 --> 00:21:10.960 lifting in that episode, so you're welcome for the Webby. 419 00:21:11.280 --> 00:21:12.000 That was a joke. 420 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:13.040 God, that was sad. 421 00:21:13.600 --> 00:21:16.515 I think I think we should chisel off a part of 422 00:21:16.515 --> 00:21:17.555 the webby and send it to Yeah. 423 00:21:18.435 --> 00:21:18.755 Break off 424 00:21:18.915 --> 00:21:20.675 It's only fair, really. 425 00:21:21.235 --> 00:21:24.195 So I have amazing news, which is that I looked up Tenya 426 00:21:24.195 --> 00:21:28.275 Wanya Teens, and it's so cute and amazing. Okay. 427 00:21:28.820 --> 00:21:31.220 But I mean, what a great metaphor for like it's 428 00:21:31.220 --> 00:21:32.020 yeah. So, you know 429 00:21:32.100 --> 00:21:32.420 It's perfect. 430 00:21:32.980 --> 00:21:36.340 Bad touchscreen interface is just recreating the 431 00:21:36.340 --> 00:21:39.460 awkwardness of not knowing how to use your body as a teenager. 432 00:21:39.620 --> 00:21:40.980 Yeah. It's perfect. 433 00:21:40.980 --> 00:21:44.805 Confess your love. Confess your love. No. 434 00:21:44.805 --> 00:21:48.005 No. I just wanna sign in. I'm just gonna send an 435 00:21:48.005 --> 00:21:48.645 email. 436 00:21:48.645 --> 00:21:51.925 You're just my printer. Next 437 00:21:53.845 --> 00:21:58.005 up, we got an email in response to my segment 438 00:21:58.005 --> 00:22:02.620 on charts and the turn of the century. This comes from Jack 439 00:22:02.940 --> 00:22:06.620 who says that that reminded him of the way that being able to 440 00:22:06.620 --> 00:22:09.340 graphically present research via chart, infographic, or diagram 441 00:22:09.340 --> 00:22:12.300 almost always makes it resonate more with an audience and or 442 00:22:12.300 --> 00:22:15.035 client. This places huge pressure on researchers like 443 00:22:15.035 --> 00:22:17.515 myself specializing in qualitative methods where the 444 00:22:17.515 --> 00:22:20.235 aim is to understand different experiences, perspectives, and 445 00:22:20.235 --> 00:22:23.515 values, not just count them. Reflecting on my work, I can't 446 00:22:23.515 --> 00:22:26.930 help but link the trend for quantitative charts with the 447 00:22:26.930 --> 00:22:30.530 trend for research methods that promise being able to quantify 448 00:22:30.530 --> 00:22:34.610 qualitative data. In particular, the abundance of workshops and 449 00:22:34.610 --> 00:22:37.570 public engagement methods centered around the post it 450 00:22:37.570 --> 00:22:38.130 note. 451 00:22:38.290 --> 00:22:40.915 These are activities that promise to capture the breadth 452 00:22:40.915 --> 00:22:44.995 and depth of human perspectives into neat digestible visualized 453 00:22:44.995 --> 00:22:48.835 forms. He then references the brilliant Shannon Mattern. And 454 00:22:48.835 --> 00:22:51.715 goes on to say, it feels like there's definitely a link 455 00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:53.820 between the proliferation of charts as the go to research 456 00:22:53.820 --> 00:22:57.500 output and the proliferation of post it note based methods as a 457 00:22:57.500 --> 00:23:00.860 way of performing qualitative research. Being able to point at 458 00:23:00.860 --> 00:23:03.580 a pile of post it notes, group them, count them, visualize them 459 00:23:03.580 --> 00:23:06.365 on a Miro board feels like an attempt of qualitative 460 00:23:06.365 --> 00:23:11.645 researchers to condense their work into charts as a format. I 461 00:23:12.285 --> 00:23:13.325 agree, Jack. 462 00:23:13.325 --> 00:23:16.205 And I have been in a lot of meetings where we move a lot of 463 00:23:16.205 --> 00:23:19.565 post it notes around because somebody came back in with a lot 464 00:23:19.610 --> 00:23:24.010 of qualitative sociological research, and it's not real 465 00:23:24.010 --> 00:23:28.010 until it is visualized, and that is the post it note phenomenon. 466 00:23:28.650 --> 00:23:32.730 There are anguished looks in the chat right now. I think everyone 467 00:23:32.730 --> 00:23:35.130 just thinking of like, hey. You know, 468 00:23:35.325 --> 00:23:37.805 I'm not looking at anyone in particular, by 469 00:23:37.805 --> 00:23:40.925 which I mean none of none of our clients that we all work on 470 00:23:40.925 --> 00:23:41.725 shows for. But like 471 00:23:41.805 --> 00:23:42.365 And love. 472 00:23:42.365 --> 00:23:43.005 I think about this a 473 00:23:43.005 --> 00:23:44.605 lot when people are like, you know, we're really 474 00:23:44.605 --> 00:23:49.085 data driven here. So really, our decisions are very data driven. 475 00:23:49.085 --> 00:23:53.490 And then and then the conversation turns to what does 476 00:23:53.490 --> 00:23:54.610 the audience like? 477 00:23:56.130 --> 00:23:57.090 You're like, I don't 478 00:23:57.250 --> 00:23:59.570 we you know, it's hard to explain to people that 479 00:23:59.570 --> 00:24:05.595 it's like so much of what you are using to make very big, and 480 00:24:05.595 --> 00:24:07.995 in certain cases important, you know, at least as far as 481 00:24:07.995 --> 00:24:12.235 decisions related to media are important. Decisions are like 482 00:24:12.475 --> 00:24:16.555 ciphers for things. You know, you're like slapping a mask on 483 00:24:16.555 --> 00:24:19.960 top of something and then only ever talking about the mask 484 00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:23.880 Right. And not the thing that is on the other side of it. But 485 00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:30.600 it's like, yeah, it's how so much of this industry and how so 486 00:24:30.895 --> 00:24:34.175 many people really just like it's what they feel like is the 487 00:24:34.175 --> 00:24:35.775 closer way to access the truth. 488 00:24:35.775 --> 00:24:38.815 Yeah. The truth has numbers associated with it, and that 489 00:24:38.815 --> 00:24:40.095 just makes things complicated. 490 00:24:40.255 --> 00:24:42.255 Yeah. And in other ways, it's just like a 491 00:24:42.255 --> 00:24:47.640 continuation of this grand conflict between magic and 492 00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:51.480 science that is sort of always spooling out across time and 493 00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:52.760 various methods. 494 00:24:53.800 --> 00:24:56.120 Next up friend of the show, George Rohawk wrote in 495 00:24:56.120 --> 00:24:59.955 about my segment on blocking, and George said, in the mailbag, 496 00:24:59.955 --> 00:25:02.035 there was a brief discussion about blocking folk that you 497 00:25:02.035 --> 00:25:04.595 know directly slash personally, and muting was briefly 498 00:25:04.595 --> 00:25:07.235 discussed. But I don't think muting gets as much credit as it 499 00:25:07.235 --> 00:25:11.635 deserves. I have so many people muted. The mute is the unsung 500 00:25:11.635 --> 00:25:15.950 hero of social media. I mean, this is hard to argue 501 00:25:15.950 --> 00:25:18.030 with. I completely agree. 502 00:25:18.030 --> 00:25:18.510 I'm a 503 00:25:18.510 --> 00:25:19.790 huge fan of muting. 504 00:25:20.270 --> 00:25:26.190 I I don't mute as much as I should. But like, 505 00:25:26.190 --> 00:25:29.615 there's a reason that it, you know, like, the days of IRC or 506 00:25:29.615 --> 00:25:32.575 whatever, it was just the main tool. Right? Like, someone's 507 00:25:32.575 --> 00:25:37.135 bothering you or someone is causing trouble in a channel or 508 00:25:37.135 --> 00:25:39.935 something, just mute them. Like, they'll you just don't see them 509 00:25:39.935 --> 00:25:43.055 anymore, and, like, that's the end of it. 510 00:25:43.055 --> 00:25:45.830 And I think, you know, we talked about this a little bit in the 511 00:25:45.830 --> 00:25:49.350 segment that, you know, Caroline pointed out that sometimes a 512 00:25:49.350 --> 00:25:53.110 mute isn't a solution when you don't want someone to be in 513 00:25:53.110 --> 00:25:55.590 possession of information about your life in any way. 514 00:25:55.590 --> 00:25:55.830 Right. 515 00:25:55.830 --> 00:25:57.750 At least you wanna provide some friction to 516 00:25:57.750 --> 00:26:00.865 them getting that information. And I think that's true. But, 517 00:26:00.865 --> 00:26:05.665 yeah, like, 90% of the time probably, a mute goes a long 518 00:26:05.665 --> 00:26:08.945 way. On Blue Sky, at least, when when I get an irritating at 519 00:26:08.945 --> 00:26:11.860 reply, I have started just muting those people. It, like 520 00:26:12.020 --> 00:26:12.180 Yeah. 521 00:26:12.260 --> 00:26:14.420 It's like one and done. Like, I don't I don't need this. 522 00:26:14.420 --> 00:26:17.140 It's just a softer blow. Obviously, there's 523 00:26:17.380 --> 00:26:19.540 different layers of this because, yeah, if someone is 524 00:26:19.540 --> 00:26:24.020 harassing you, if someone is using access to, for example, 525 00:26:25.335 --> 00:26:28.695 your Instagram profile, which if you muted someone, you're just 526 00:26:28.695 --> 00:26:31.095 not seeing what they're posting, but they can still look at your 527 00:26:31.095 --> 00:26:33.895 profile. They might not be able to see your story, but they can 528 00:26:33.895 --> 00:26:38.055 look at your photos that you've posted. Like, if there's danger 529 00:26:38.055 --> 00:26:41.920 or a problem with them even have axing having access to that, 530 00:26:42.800 --> 00:26:44.560 muting is not gonna be enough. Yeah. 531 00:26:44.560 --> 00:26:50.960 But I do appreciate it as kind of a a softer pushing away. 532 00:26:51.360 --> 00:26:55.120 I actually I have started using it more like 533 00:26:53.775 --> 00:26:56.255 Twitter for all the things that were wrong with it had a great 534 00:26:56.255 --> 00:27:00.895 feature in the the soft block of blocking someone and unblocking 535 00:27:00.895 --> 00:27:05.855 them forced and unfollow. That doesn't work on Blue Sky, and I 536 00:27:05.855 --> 00:27:11.340 would often use that on Twitter for someone who it like it 537 00:27:11.340 --> 00:27:16.540 seemed like them following me caused them distress. That like, 538 00:27:16.540 --> 00:27:18.060 they would only ever 539 00:27:17.980 --> 00:27:19.500 I'm replies for you. 540 00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:21.020 When they were mad about something. 541 00:27:21.425 --> 00:27:21.985 Yeah. 542 00:27:22.305 --> 00:27:24.545 And like, all of their replies to me would just 543 00:27:24.545 --> 00:27:26.465 be angry. And I'll be like, listen, I'm gonna do you a 544 00:27:26.465 --> 00:27:29.105 favor, and I'm just gonna get me out of your timeline. 545 00:27:29.105 --> 00:27:31.025 I'm just I'm just gonna get out of here. 546 00:27:31.585 --> 00:27:35.345 Now, I just block those people on Blue Sky just, 547 00:27:35.560 --> 00:27:38.120 you know, because I can't unfollow them. I can't force 548 00:27:38.120 --> 00:27:41.160 them to unfollow me. But people who are just like sort of low 549 00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:44.840 level irritating or who do the blue sky thing of like, well, 550 00:27:44.840 --> 00:27:47.400 actually ing constantly. Yeah. That's a mute. 551 00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:48.440 Like, those people get muted. 552 00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:50.760 And that's fine. It's a gentle way of being like, hey. 553 00:27:51.215 --> 00:27:51.615 Yeah. 554 00:27:51.615 --> 00:27:53.855 Yeah. I just shut the fuck up. 555 00:27:53.855 --> 00:27:56.575 But truly, as always, the only real virtuous 556 00:27:56.575 --> 00:28:00.655 path is to get out of everyone's timeline, and so never post. 557 00:28:00.655 --> 00:28:03.295 Just don't do it. Yeah. With that, we're gonna 558 00:28:03.295 --> 00:28:25.805 take a little break. Okay. So joining us is Kurt White. 559 00:28:25.805 --> 00:28:27.725 Kurt, thanks for coming on. 560 00:28:27.725 --> 00:28:31.920 Kurt. Good to see you guys again. 561 00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:33.600 Alright. Everybody may remember Kurt from 562 00:28:33.600 --> 00:28:37.680 our segment about the Internet and the sense of self and using 563 00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:41.520 technology to construct the sense of self. So, Kurt, thanks 564 00:28:41.520 --> 00:28:45.945 for coming on for us to read some listener communications to 565 00:28:45.945 --> 00:28:51.465 you. Our one is from Paul from Sweden. Is this is was this 566 00:28:51.465 --> 00:28:54.745 furnished in the email as germane information, Jason? 567 00:28:54.825 --> 00:28:57.065 This is how Paul would like to be described. 568 00:28:57.065 --> 00:28:58.585 Okay. This is Paul from Sweden. 569 00:28:58.585 --> 00:29:01.130 We honor that. Paul writes, I was just 570 00:29:01.130 --> 00:29:04.250 listening to your latest mailbag episode when a thought struck 571 00:29:04.250 --> 00:29:07.290 me, and I had the idea to write this message. As I was hearing 572 00:29:07.290 --> 00:29:09.850 the questions and perspectives of the listeners of the show, I 573 00:29:09.850 --> 00:29:12.410 suddenly became aware of a thought process that I've 574 00:29:12.410 --> 00:29:15.865 maintained for most of my life. I realized the general apathy 575 00:29:15.865 --> 00:29:19.225 that I had towards my opinions. Every time I heard something 576 00:29:19.225 --> 00:29:21.865 that interested me or that I related to, I would get the 577 00:29:21.865 --> 00:29:25.145 instinct to write it with my own thoughts only to tell myself 578 00:29:25.145 --> 00:29:27.945 that no one would listen before I could even finish the thought. 579 00:29:28.570 --> 00:29:32.490 I've even noticed this in other people my age with barrenous 580 00:29:32.490 --> 00:29:36.170 chat rooms and overly vague conversations. I wonder if the 581 00:29:36.170 --> 00:29:39.530 Internet has anything to do with this as the anonymous nature of 582 00:29:39.530 --> 00:29:42.810 social media can make posting feel like screaming into a 583 00:29:42.810 --> 00:29:46.705 pillow. I wonder if it has always been like this, as I am 584 00:29:46.705 --> 00:29:51.025 only 17 and have never known an Internet without social media. 585 00:29:51.265 --> 00:29:54.945 What do you think? Has our expanded worldview led to the 586 00:29:54.945 --> 00:29:56.465 views of ourselves shrinking? 587 00:29:57.090 --> 00:29:59.730 I'm sure I'm not the person to write about this, but at least 588 00:29:59.730 --> 00:30:02.130 it feels good to get this thought out of my head. Paul, 589 00:30:02.130 --> 00:30:04.130 that does feel like a good thought to get out of 590 00:30:04.130 --> 00:30:05.730 your head. Mhmm. 591 00:30:06.610 --> 00:30:09.825 That's wonderful. I I would have I was pegging Paul 592 00:30:09.825 --> 00:30:13.905 as a fellow Gen Xer here. Yeah, same. That was the most 593 00:30:13.905 --> 00:30:18.145 impassioned defense of apathy I've heard in a while. I felt 594 00:30:18.145 --> 00:30:19.905 myself relaxing into it. 595 00:30:20.225 --> 00:30:22.465 But then I also thought, you know, it's a feeling I can 596 00:30:22.465 --> 00:30:26.380 remember when I was 17, interestingly enough, where I 597 00:30:26.380 --> 00:30:29.420 think you're sort of confronted at that time of life with the 598 00:30:29.420 --> 00:30:34.220 sort of all the thoughts in your head and the sort of world that 599 00:30:34.220 --> 00:30:37.900 seems much larger than it actually is in some ways. And I 600 00:30:37.900 --> 00:30:41.285 think it can feel overwhelming and stifling. I think that's a 601 00:30:41.285 --> 00:30:43.925 sort of creativity problem, actually. I think it's something 602 00:30:43.925 --> 00:30:48.805 that has to be kind of born with community. And I don't know that 603 00:30:48.805 --> 00:30:51.925 the internet either seems to me as a positive or negative in 604 00:30:51.925 --> 00:30:52.245 that. 605 00:30:52.245 --> 00:30:56.300 I think it's just something that is. I mean, I didn't have the 606 00:30:56.300 --> 00:31:01.980 internet I had at 17 was so much less. But I think I still had 607 00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:06.220 that strong feeling. And I think one has to sort of learn how to 608 00:31:06.220 --> 00:31:10.460 trust one's own thoughts and feelings as valuable. And very 609 00:31:10.460 --> 00:31:13.985 often, if you can do that, you'll find that other people 610 00:31:13.985 --> 00:31:16.305 will respond to them and take them seriously. 611 00:31:16.305 --> 00:31:19.825 And the world will seem a little smaller, but in a good way. I 612 00:31:19.825 --> 00:31:21.825 always sort of envied the millennials in a way, because 613 00:31:23.290 --> 00:31:23.690 guys What? 614 00:31:23.690 --> 00:31:24.330 You hate money? 615 00:31:24.330 --> 00:31:25.530 You guys took it. Well, it's a 616 00:31:25.530 --> 00:31:26.010 love hate. 617 00:31:26.010 --> 00:31:29.210 It's a love hate thing. It's Same, to be honest. 618 00:31:29.210 --> 00:31:35.690 You seemed to have an easier time of that, take it seriously, 619 00:31:35.690 --> 00:31:38.570 and the world will make room. And I don't know that we really 620 00:31:38.570 --> 00:31:41.665 thought know what I mean? But now it's so full, maybe people 621 00:31:41.665 --> 00:31:43.985 have come back around, and they're not so sure if there's 622 00:31:43.985 --> 00:31:44.785 any room anymore. 623 00:31:44.785 --> 00:31:47.585 But I think there is room, was room, and will be room. 624 00:31:47.745 --> 00:31:50.385 I do think I was gonna say my my main thought, 625 00:31:50.385 --> 00:31:53.850 both hearing from Paul and hearing you talk about it, Kurt, 626 00:31:53.850 --> 00:31:56.650 was like, you know, we can all argue about whether or not the 627 00:31:56.650 --> 00:31:59.210 generational divide really makes a difference, but, like, I I 628 00:31:59.210 --> 00:32:02.890 wonder if that is at play here because I remember growing up, 629 00:32:03.130 --> 00:32:06.355 you know, in the early nineties. Right? We're we're just sort of 630 00:32:06.355 --> 00:32:11.315 getting out of the the Gen X apathy, but we're still in this 631 00:32:11.315 --> 00:32:16.035 kind of like, you know, the most important thing is to be cool, 632 00:32:16.515 --> 00:32:20.355 and there was nothing less cool than caring about stuff. 633 00:32:20.650 --> 00:32:21.450 Mhmm. Yeah. 634 00:32:21.450 --> 00:32:26.650 And so for me, like, it felt almost like a 635 00:32:26.650 --> 00:32:31.210 little rebellious to care about things and to, like, have 636 00:32:31.690 --> 00:32:36.765 strongly held opinions and to, like, you know, defend them and 637 00:32:36.765 --> 00:32:41.645 advocate for them. And I wonder now if, like, the Internet is a 638 00:32:41.645 --> 00:32:44.125 place where, like, everybody's got an opinion. They're 639 00:32:44.125 --> 00:32:47.405 constantly advocating for them. They're all irritating as shit. 640 00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:50.840 Is a way for you to, like, look at the world and be like, uh-uh. 641 00:32:50.840 --> 00:32:53.800 Like, that sucks. No. Thank you. 642 00:32:54.360 --> 00:32:57.720 I mean, kind of to then add to this chronology we're 643 00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:02.955 creating. When I was growing up in the February, the feeling was 644 00:33:02.955 --> 00:33:06.395 very different than that. That being online was very much like, 645 00:33:06.395 --> 00:33:12.875 oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell everyone. And it was a, you 646 00:33:12.875 --> 00:33:19.150 know, a very embarrassing time, but one that was sort of enacted 647 00:33:19.150 --> 00:33:23.790 upon by my peers and certainly by myself. I was profoundly 648 00:33:23.790 --> 00:33:27.230 sincere online, very publicly. 649 00:33:27.950 --> 00:33:35.265 And I do I do struggle a bit with the cacophony of voices now 650 00:33:36.145 --> 00:33:39.185 and feeling a little paralyzed by it. 651 00:33:39.185 --> 00:33:43.040 Yeah. It's interesting. I in pitch meetings 652 00:33:43.040 --> 00:33:46.720 and in discussion, there are so many moments where we pause and 653 00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:50.480 try to think, like, we're assuming the Internet has 654 00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:56.080 something to do with this in some, like like, catalistic way. 655 00:33:56.515 --> 00:34:01.155 But is this just how, you know, insert thing works? Is this just 656 00:34:01.155 --> 00:34:02.835 what it feels like to be a human? 657 00:34:03.075 --> 00:34:05.235 Like, independent of the Internet? Is this just like how 658 00:34:05.235 --> 00:34:07.795 this concept exists on the world? Would a 659 00:34:07.795 --> 00:34:09.875 medieval merchant recognize this Yeah. 660 00:34:10.755 --> 00:34:13.130 Exactly. And so I feel like, yeah, I'm sort 661 00:34:13.130 --> 00:34:15.930 of struggling on this particular question with that. In some 662 00:34:15.930 --> 00:34:20.490 ways, like, yes, this is a just a reasonable way to fuel that a 663 00:34:20.490 --> 00:34:23.690 lot of people feel. But in some ways, I think this is tied into 664 00:34:23.690 --> 00:34:26.330 the chronology we're setting up of sort of caring and posting on 665 00:34:26.330 --> 00:34:29.985 the Internet. As somebody who posted a lot on the Internet and 666 00:34:29.985 --> 00:34:31.905 stopped, I think not just because I burned out from having 667 00:34:31.905 --> 00:34:37.425 a public persona, but because there was a bit of frustration, 668 00:34:37.425 --> 00:34:41.185 cynicism, despondency that creeped in, having been in a 669 00:34:41.185 --> 00:34:44.660 space that was like forwarding ideas and agendas and 670 00:34:44.660 --> 00:34:48.180 understanding of the world, and with some vague goal in the 671 00:34:48.180 --> 00:34:51.300 future that if we just understood things enough and 672 00:34:51.700 --> 00:34:54.755 sorry to the charts question from before, if we could put 673 00:34:54.755 --> 00:34:57.075 them graphically enough, if we could just explain them 674 00:34:57.075 --> 00:35:00.595 correctly, if we had enough post its to move around, clearly, 675 00:35:00.595 --> 00:35:03.315 like, wisdom would win out, and we would like make correct 676 00:35:03.315 --> 00:35:05.635 decisions because we had better and more information. 677 00:35:06.035 --> 00:35:09.800 And as that's became increasingly difficult to see 678 00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:13.800 positive outcomes from, or even like ways in which it impressed 679 00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:18.840 the world, it became more difficult to consider posting. 680 00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:22.565 In some ways, that does start to reflect on like contributing my 681 00:35:22.565 --> 00:35:26.805 ideas to a discourse, or having an idea worth sharing, and some 682 00:35:26.805 --> 00:35:29.365 sort of resentment of people who assume that their ideas are 683 00:35:29.365 --> 00:35:31.605 worth sharing in any way that I have to like get over a knee 684 00:35:31.605 --> 00:35:34.565 jerk response of like, why would you why would you tell anyone 685 00:35:34.565 --> 00:35:37.380 anything you're thinking? It's not gonna fucking matter, which 686 00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:39.380 is a bad place to land. 687 00:35:39.860 --> 00:35:42.980 I mean, I think there's a happy medium here. Because at 688 00:35:42.980 --> 00:35:47.220 least personally, my frustration is often with the belief that 689 00:35:47.220 --> 00:35:51.895 you are now automatically an expert on whatever topic. I get 690 00:35:51.895 --> 00:35:57.735 frustrated by all these people basically, actualing each other 691 00:35:58.135 --> 00:36:01.735 until it becomes this ouroboros that just sort of collapses in 692 00:36:01.735 --> 00:36:06.230 on itself. But I think I think there is space, Kurt, to kind of 693 00:36:06.230 --> 00:36:11.190 what you were saying of, like, not taking it to that place, but 694 00:36:11.190 --> 00:36:13.670 also not taking in the other direction where it's like, well, 695 00:36:13.670 --> 00:36:16.550 why even say anything at all? Like, I think there's a space to 696 00:36:16.550 --> 00:36:22.215 just be like, to make room to have observations, to talk to 697 00:36:22.215 --> 00:36:26.375 each other, to communicate without it either being, and 698 00:36:26.375 --> 00:36:31.975 this is the definitive end of the story decision about this. 699 00:36:32.700 --> 00:36:33.020 Mhmm. 700 00:36:33.020 --> 00:36:37.340 And also feel additive. It's it's more communal. It's 701 00:36:37.340 --> 00:36:38.460 more conversational. 702 00:36:38.540 --> 00:36:41.420 Mhmm. I was reminded, and I hope this is a 703 00:36:41.420 --> 00:36:46.965 building adjoining, but if not, we have editors. I want to read 704 00:36:46.965 --> 00:36:50.725 a little quote from a little book. It was a little book of 705 00:36:50.725 --> 00:36:54.565 Georgia O'Keeffe paintings. Just a tiny little book of Georgia. 706 00:36:54.565 --> 00:36:57.525 And there's a wonderful quote in the front that I always have 707 00:36:57.525 --> 00:37:02.680 loved. A flower is relatively small. Everyone has many 708 00:37:02.680 --> 00:37:06.760 associations with a flower, the idea of flowers. You put out 709 00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:10.120 your hand to touch the flower, you lean forward to smell it, 710 00:37:10.120 --> 00:37:13.795 maybe touch it with your lips, almost without thinking, or give 711 00:37:13.795 --> 00:37:18.595 it to someone to please them. Still, in a way, nobody sees a 712 00:37:18.595 --> 00:37:20.035 flower, really. 713 00:37:20.275 --> 00:37:24.915 It is so small. We haven't time, and it takes time, like to have 714 00:37:24.915 --> 00:37:29.420 a friend takes time. If I could paint the flower exactly as I 715 00:37:29.420 --> 00:37:33.420 see it, no one would see what I see because I would paint it 716 00:37:33.420 --> 00:37:36.140 small, like the flower is small. 717 00:37:37.340 --> 00:37:40.395 Well, there you have it, Paul from Sweden. 718 00:37:40.635 --> 00:37:40.955 Here's 719 00:37:40.955 --> 00:37:41.835 your answer. 720 00:37:43.115 --> 00:37:46.475 I mean, means something. Every person's 721 00:37:46.475 --> 00:37:49.035 something means something, right? We have to find a way to 722 00:37:49.035 --> 00:37:53.115 not be the cliche of ourselves. And we do have to do that 723 00:37:53.115 --> 00:37:57.330 publicly somehow. There's no correction for that but to sort 724 00:37:57.330 --> 00:37:58.610 of bungle into it. 725 00:37:58.610 --> 00:38:01.490 And it's and that's probably even harder when 726 00:38:01.490 --> 00:38:05.330 you're 17. You know? Like, it's not easy when you're 40. But No. 727 00:38:05.410 --> 00:38:10.305 It's it's I I've at least got a a couple iterations of seventeen 728 00:38:10.305 --> 00:38:11.985 years under my belt. 729 00:38:12.145 --> 00:38:15.105 Doing the seventeen is particularly hard. 730 00:38:15.105 --> 00:38:17.185 Yeah. That's right. And before long, you have an 731 00:38:17.185 --> 00:38:20.225 award winning podcast. You 732 00:38:21.140 --> 00:38:22.980 know, you hit 40, they just hand them out 733 00:38:22.980 --> 00:38:25.860 to you. They hand them out to you. That's right. 734 00:38:27.220 --> 00:38:29.620 Kurt, this next question I found here is 735 00:38:29.620 --> 00:38:34.820 particularly plucks to appeal to the Gen X in you. So we'll get 736 00:38:34.820 --> 00:38:35.845 back to that. 737 00:38:35.845 --> 00:38:37.445 Very good. Very good. 738 00:38:37.605 --> 00:38:40.405 Chris writes it and says, finally getting 739 00:38:40.405 --> 00:38:43.525 around to writing you about shutting down my PC. My 740 00:38:43.525 --> 00:38:45.925 emotional response to this simple act changed as the 741 00:38:45.925 --> 00:38:49.125 interface did. For reference, I'm 45 years old. My PC was an 742 00:38:49.125 --> 00:38:49.845 Apple two e. 743 00:38:50.070 --> 00:38:53.510 Oh, yeah. I hope. 744 00:38:53.510 --> 00:38:56.710 Had one myself. It wasn't my but I did have one. 745 00:38:56.710 --> 00:38:57.190 Yeah. 746 00:38:58.390 --> 00:39:01.430 My early PCs had dedicated single function on 747 00:39:01.430 --> 00:39:05.395 off switches. Often these came with a satisfying clunk. That 748 00:39:05.395 --> 00:39:09.155 sound Right. The time I found myself with a PC where the 749 00:39:09.155 --> 00:39:12.035 default method of shutting down was to click a menu option, I 750 00:39:12.035 --> 00:39:16.035 felt genuinely offended. Especially since that process 751 00:39:16.035 --> 00:39:19.330 took a bit of time, none of the instant feedback of a switch. 752 00:39:19.570 --> 00:39:22.690 I didn't like that it felt more like a request than a command. 753 00:39:23.410 --> 00:39:26.450 Maybe it was because PCs used to freeze up rather more often than 754 00:39:26.450 --> 00:39:30.415 they do now. I didn't trust the technology fully. PCs usually 755 00:39:30.415 --> 00:39:33.375 still have an instant off switch hidden away at the back, but now 756 00:39:33.375 --> 00:39:36.815 on the rare occasions I need to use this, it somehow feels 757 00:39:36.895 --> 00:39:41.775 violent. Even switching my phone all the way off seems, if not 758 00:39:41.775 --> 00:39:44.495 extreme, then unnecessarily forceful. 759 00:39:45.270 --> 00:39:47.670 I've noticed my language reflects this as well. What I 760 00:39:47.670 --> 00:39:51.190 would once call a reboot, I'd now call a hard reboot. If this 761 00:39:51.190 --> 00:39:54.070 turns out to be a broader phenomenon than just myself, I 762 00:39:54.070 --> 00:39:56.550 wonder what has contributed to the attitude change. 763 00:39:56.550 --> 00:40:00.065 Anthropomorphizing language like putting things in sleep mode? Do 764 00:40:00.065 --> 00:40:03.185 our devices feel more like extensions of ourselves? 765 00:40:03.505 --> 00:40:06.465 I'd love to hear your thoughts. Even if it's to tell me, 766 00:40:06.465 --> 00:40:10.785 hopefully gently, that I'm alone in this. Kurt, is Chris alone in 767 00:40:10.785 --> 00:40:12.465 this? Oh, no. 768 00:40:12.465 --> 00:40:16.320 I I loved all that. Those old noises live in my soul 769 00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:21.280 somewhere. I just love it. I have a collection of them in my 770 00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:24.960 head and heart. And I think that's a good that's extensions 771 00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:26.320 of oneself. 772 00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:30.275 It does feel like that. And maybe we're a little more 773 00:40:30.275 --> 00:40:34.435 hesitant to sort of do violence to it for that very reason. 774 00:40:34.435 --> 00:40:38.035 Know, it's meant to be always shining like a beacon in the 775 00:40:38.035 --> 00:40:41.315 background or something like that. There's something lost 776 00:40:41.315 --> 00:40:44.600 when we do that and something sort of hard when we have to do 777 00:40:44.600 --> 00:40:50.280 it. Yeah, I hadn't thought of it myself in a violent way, but I 778 00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:51.640 can easily imagine it. 779 00:40:52.040 --> 00:40:55.240 I can easily imagine. My current PC that I'm sitting here with, 780 00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:58.605 it hides the button so thoroughly that every every time 781 00:40:58.605 --> 00:41:01.245 I need to press it, I need to shine a bright light on it 782 00:41:01.245 --> 00:41:04.685 because it's it's so hidden that I can't even I can't even see 783 00:41:04.685 --> 00:41:07.565 it. I don't know what that means, but it it does it does 784 00:41:07.565 --> 00:41:09.805 conjure a certain amount of violence in me when I have to 785 00:41:09.805 --> 00:41:10.925 look for the goddamn things. 786 00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:12.780 Well, I think that means like, this is these 787 00:41:12.780 --> 00:41:15.820 are conscious design choices made by people who don't want 788 00:41:15.820 --> 00:41:19.420 you to turn these things off ever. And like the relationship 789 00:41:19.740 --> 00:41:23.260 that we had at one point with the machines where you had to 790 00:41:23.260 --> 00:41:27.735 turn them on before engaging is it's gone. Like, they are always 791 00:41:27.735 --> 00:41:29.175 there. We are always engaging. 792 00:41:29.495 --> 00:41:32.455 Well, I think there's something here about access and 793 00:41:32.455 --> 00:41:35.735 accessibility in terms of having access to this device and the 794 00:41:35.735 --> 00:41:39.255 device having access to you. Because I cannot remember the 795 00:41:39.255 --> 00:41:41.255 last time I consciously turned off my phone. 796 00:41:42.080 --> 00:41:44.160 Yeah. And it's for the same purpose that 797 00:41:44.160 --> 00:41:47.040 it always has been, which is like, it starts doing too many 798 00:41:47.040 --> 00:41:49.280 weird things and I don't know why. And then I try to turn it 799 00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:51.680 off, and I found that, like, I haven't turned off this model of 800 00:41:51.680 --> 00:41:53.600 the phone enough, so I don't actually know how to do it 801 00:41:53.600 --> 00:41:56.535 quickly. Yeah. I have to, like, figure out which combination of 802 00:41:56.535 --> 00:41:58.055 buttons starts to turn it off again. 803 00:41:58.055 --> 00:41:58.695 You have to look it up. 804 00:41:58.695 --> 00:42:00.375 And it's like a two stage process. 805 00:42:01.015 --> 00:42:03.655 You you get a lot of screenshots of you trying to 806 00:42:03.655 --> 00:42:03.975 set up 807 00:42:03.975 --> 00:42:05.175 the phone. Yeah. 808 00:42:06.375 --> 00:42:10.000 But and it does Jason Jason, to your point of the 809 00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:12.720 times I've had to turn my phone off are when it's, yeah, it's 810 00:42:12.720 --> 00:42:15.920 glitching, something's not working. And back to the 811 00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:18.400 violence point, it does kind of feel like you're slapping 812 00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:21.040 someone in the face because they're freaking out, and you're 813 00:42:21.040 --> 00:42:23.865 like, snap out of it. Like, you're just like slapping. 814 00:42:23.865 --> 00:42:25.945 I'll work you I'll wake you up again soon, buddy. 815 00:42:25.945 --> 00:42:28.745 Just for a couple of seconds. Don't don't worry about it. 816 00:42:28.745 --> 00:42:30.505 Well, it's like you're you're severing your 817 00:42:30.505 --> 00:42:33.305 connection to the world. You're like, well, I'm you know, like, 818 00:42:33.305 --> 00:42:37.625 it it you disconnect. But that has an embodied feeling to it 819 00:42:37.625 --> 00:42:41.200 now. We are. As opposed to just an an emotional psychological 820 00:42:41.200 --> 00:42:41.600 one. 821 00:42:41.600 --> 00:42:41.840 Right? 822 00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:43.120 Right. And also because there's a sense 823 00:42:43.120 --> 00:42:45.920 like, it feels like the software is turning it off, not the 824 00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:49.120 hardware, because there's not a big clunk button Mhmm. To turn 825 00:42:49.120 --> 00:42:51.440 it off. Like, I'm I'm mad, like, I'm touching the screen and 826 00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:53.760 swiping the thing and it's turning itself off, and I always 827 00:42:54.135 --> 00:42:56.775 fear that it will never let me turn it back on. 828 00:42:56.775 --> 00:42:59.895 Yeah. Where do each of you keep your phones when you 829 00:42:59.895 --> 00:43:02.055 come in of a night and you're kind of done? 830 00:43:02.455 --> 00:43:04.695 Oh, no. The face that Kurt made? 831 00:43:05.095 --> 00:43:08.615 Oh, god. I've turned into the person I never wanted 832 00:43:08.615 --> 00:43:14.470 to be with this. It's turned into such a multifunction device 833 00:43:14.470 --> 00:43:17.510 that I'm very often trying to wake myself up without waking 834 00:43:17.510 --> 00:43:22.230 Emily up. And so, I'll slip it under my pillow with the hope 835 00:43:22.230 --> 00:43:27.645 that my non noise alarm will wake me and not her before the 836 00:43:27.645 --> 00:43:31.245 noise alarm. So I I literally sleep with it like a child 837 00:43:31.405 --> 00:43:34.925 sleeps with a with a tooth that's just come loose under its 838 00:43:34.925 --> 00:43:35.645 pillow. 839 00:43:35.725 --> 00:43:39.805 No fairy has ever visited me in the night, however. 840 00:43:41.470 --> 00:43:43.790 Yeah. Well, then yes, it is an extension of 841 00:43:43.790 --> 00:43:45.550 ourselves. I think that answers 842 00:43:45.550 --> 00:43:48.350 the I will make a note about the violence of 843 00:43:48.350 --> 00:43:51.710 processes. You know, the old Unix machines had all kinds of 844 00:43:51.710 --> 00:43:54.705 violence built into the language. You know, you would 845 00:43:54.705 --> 00:43:58.625 kill things, kill as a command, right? I mean, this language, 846 00:43:58.625 --> 00:44:03.025 they had a TV series, not a bad one, a halt and catch fire, you 847 00:44:03.025 --> 00:44:06.465 know, named after a real catastrophic process that would 848 00:44:06.465 --> 00:44:10.260 happen at that time. So I think we were sort of used to a 849 00:44:10.260 --> 00:44:14.420 certain level of violence built into our devices that's maybe 850 00:44:14.420 --> 00:44:16.180 it's been sort of sublimated. 851 00:44:17.620 --> 00:44:19.780 Kurt, thank you so much for taking some time out 852 00:44:19.780 --> 00:44:24.785 of your busy professional real job to join us for some some 853 00:44:24.785 --> 00:44:26.065 good old fashioned podcasting. 854 00:44:26.065 --> 00:44:28.305 No. No. The world needs podcasts like this. 855 00:44:28.305 --> 00:44:30.705 Don't you dare? 856 00:44:31.425 --> 00:44:34.065 I believe it. I believe it. You know? Don't 857 00:44:33.780 --> 00:44:37.940 trust me. We need to send a good message to our listeners here. 858 00:44:37.940 --> 00:44:40.820 Right? We trust your instinct that you have something to 859 00:44:40.820 --> 00:44:41.220 offer. 860 00:44:41.220 --> 00:44:43.060 There you go. So you heard it here from Kurt. 861 00:44:43.060 --> 00:44:45.860 I want you to, before you go to sleep, turn the podcast on, put 862 00:44:45.860 --> 00:44:46.180 it under 863 00:44:46.180 --> 00:44:50.435 your pillow. Kurt, what are you guys working 864 00:44:50.435 --> 00:44:52.675 on over at Unraveling these days? What do got coming up? 865 00:44:52.675 --> 00:44:56.195 Oh, man. Some wild and wonderful stuff. We're in 866 00:44:56.195 --> 00:45:00.595 the middle of a series of three episodes in honor of Pride 867 00:45:00.595 --> 00:45:04.230 Month. We just did an episode on queer theory. And then next, 868 00:45:04.230 --> 00:45:06.950 talked to a colleague in Singapore who's a music 869 00:45:06.950 --> 00:45:11.510 therapist about all kinds of different aspects of expression 870 00:45:11.510 --> 00:45:15.830 and protection and identity, and then resilience in trans youth, 871 00:45:15.830 --> 00:45:18.155 and then some great stuff coming up in July, too. 872 00:45:18.155 --> 00:45:19.835 Hell, yeah. All right. We'll put some links in 873 00:45:19.835 --> 00:45:20.395 the show notes. 874 00:45:39.060 --> 00:45:44.020 Up next, we got a message from Alex about our 875 00:45:44.020 --> 00:45:47.245 segment that we did. It was actually a whole episode that we 876 00:45:47.245 --> 00:45:50.685 did about whether or not the Internet is driving you. Yes. 877 00:45:50.685 --> 00:45:57.245 You absolutely to the brink of your mental capacity. And Alex 878 00:45:57.245 --> 00:46:00.125 said to us, I am an ex smoker. 879 00:46:00.125 --> 00:46:03.190 And while I haven't had a cigarette in over a decade, I 880 00:46:03.190 --> 00:46:06.390 still think of myself as a recovering drug addict. I have 881 00:46:06.390 --> 00:46:09.190 to. It's basically the only thing that keeps me from 882 00:46:09.190 --> 00:46:13.430 starting up again. Shame can be a powerful motivating force. You 883 00:46:13.430 --> 00:46:13.830 know? 884 00:46:13.990 --> 00:46:16.950 Unlike a lot of ex smokers, I never had a problem with a lack 885 00:46:16.950 --> 00:46:20.925 of constant oral fixation. Me, I could never figure out what to 886 00:46:20.925 --> 00:46:24.685 do with my hands. While listening to the episode, I 887 00:46:24.685 --> 00:46:28.285 checked for my own stats of the day, and I was shocked to find 888 00:46:28.445 --> 00:46:33.330 that I unlocked my phone 57 times and spent nearly two hours 889 00:46:33.330 --> 00:46:38.610 on TikTok and thirty six minutes on blue sky during a workday at 890 00:46:38.610 --> 00:46:44.290 a job that in no way requires any use of my phone. Is two 891 00:46:44.290 --> 00:46:47.330 hours on TikTok worse than 20 or so cigarettes a day? Maybe not. 892 00:46:47.615 --> 00:46:50.495 What I'm trying to say is I think TikTok and whatever else 893 00:46:50.495 --> 00:46:54.815 you consider, quote, unquote, the feed are like cigarettes. 894 00:46:55.215 --> 00:46:59.615 Like cigarettes, the feed makes you think you need it to get 895 00:46:59.615 --> 00:47:00.175 through your day. 896 00:47:01.590 --> 00:47:03.830 I do really resonate with this idea of feeling like 897 00:47:03.830 --> 00:47:05.350 you have to do something with your hands. 898 00:47:05.350 --> 00:47:08.470 Me too. Me too. As Hans was reading that, I 899 00:47:08.470 --> 00:47:11.830 was like, feeling the impulses go down to my arm of like, you 900 00:47:11.830 --> 00:47:13.190 should grab that phone, dude. 901 00:47:13.190 --> 00:47:14.405 Oh, wow. Yeah. 902 00:47:14.405 --> 00:47:14.645 A lot 903 00:47:14.645 --> 00:47:15.205 of the time Yeah. 904 00:47:15.765 --> 00:47:18.645 A lot of times, I will notice myself just grabbing my 905 00:47:18.645 --> 00:47:23.205 phone and, like, opening the weather app for, like, no reason 906 00:47:23.205 --> 00:47:24.885 just to physically do it. 907 00:47:25.205 --> 00:47:26.485 Yeah. Or it's like that thing where you're 908 00:47:26.485 --> 00:47:29.190 like, oh, I'm gonna check I'm gonna check Instagram. Like, 909 00:47:29.190 --> 00:47:31.110 okay. I checked Instagram. I'm gonna check TikTok. 910 00:47:31.110 --> 00:47:33.350 Okay. I checked TikTok. I'm gonna check blue sky. Okay. I 911 00:47:33.350 --> 00:47:33.990 checked blue sky. 912 00:47:33.990 --> 00:47:35.990 Okay. I'm gonna check Instagram. I check Instagram. 913 00:47:35.990 --> 00:47:36.470 Oh, yeah. 914 00:47:36.470 --> 00:47:37.670 I'm done checking Instagram. I'm gonna check 915 00:47:37.670 --> 00:47:38.310 TikTok. 916 00:47:38.310 --> 00:47:41.695 Mean, I've done it even worse where I'd be like, now 917 00:47:41.695 --> 00:47:44.015 that I'm done checking Instagram, I'm gonna close the 918 00:47:44.015 --> 00:47:47.295 app and it's time to check Instagram. 919 00:47:47.295 --> 00:47:49.295 I'll, 920 00:47:49.295 --> 00:47:52.255 like, look at my own photos. Like, I don't know what 921 00:47:52.255 --> 00:47:55.610 I'm doing. Like, and I will you know, kind of to what we had 922 00:47:55.610 --> 00:47:59.130 talked about in that actual episode. It's almost like I've 923 00:47:59.130 --> 00:48:01.450 been sleepwalking. I'll just be like Yeah. 924 00:48:04.650 --> 00:48:09.055 Am I in the shower? Like, what no. Like, I'm just like, how how 925 00:48:09.055 --> 00:48:11.855 did I get here? Like, what am I looking for? That that's the 926 00:48:11.855 --> 00:48:14.015 question I asked in the the episode and it's something that 927 00:48:14.015 --> 00:48:17.935 I use a lot as a barometer where I'm like, wait a I feel like I'm 928 00:48:17.935 --> 00:48:21.695 doing this with such frenetic energy and then I have to be 929 00:48:21.695 --> 00:48:25.350 like, maybe we just maybe we just fold our hands neatly in 930 00:48:25.350 --> 00:48:27.750 our lap for a couple minutes. 931 00:48:27.910 --> 00:48:30.470 I have a question for the three of you. How would 932 00:48:30.470 --> 00:48:34.470 you describe, in what terms, metaphors, however you want to 933 00:48:34.470 --> 00:48:38.235 think about it, the feeling of being interrupted by something 934 00:48:38.235 --> 00:48:42.635 else and being forced to hard eject out of the feed 935 00:48:42.875 --> 00:48:43.435 That's great. 936 00:48:43.435 --> 00:48:46.075 Before that cycle has completed. Is it great? Is 937 00:48:46.075 --> 00:48:47.835 it great, or do you feel like a like, oh god. 938 00:48:48.030 --> 00:48:49.950 No. I don't need anything that's happening 939 00:48:49.950 --> 00:48:52.990 in a cycle. Like, there's no complete need to complete an 940 00:48:52.990 --> 00:48:56.270 activity. There's nothing. It is just time passing because and I 941 00:48:56.270 --> 00:48:59.710 really do think like, Alex, like, I think you're on to 942 00:48:59.710 --> 00:49:00.030 something. 943 00:49:00.030 --> 00:49:02.985 Like, I really do think it it started because my hand hadn't 944 00:49:02.985 --> 00:49:05.625 done a thing in a while. And it's like, well, maybe there's 945 00:49:05.625 --> 00:49:08.345 something on the thing that I grab. And then you're just like, 946 00:49:08.345 --> 00:49:10.985 in it a little bit. But when I'm interrupted, I'm not like, no. I 947 00:49:10.985 --> 00:49:12.505 need my I was like, oh, okay. 948 00:49:12.505 --> 00:49:14.345 Sure. What are we what am I doing with my life? 949 00:49:14.505 --> 00:49:17.580 Yeah. It feels like waking up. Like, feels which is 950 00:49:17.580 --> 00:49:22.380 maybe dark to say. But, yeah, it really feels that way. Because 951 00:49:22.380 --> 00:49:25.820 otherwise, I mean, I'll be on TikTok looking at TikToks, and 952 00:49:25.820 --> 00:49:28.700 maybe they're not especially funny or I'm not finding my my 953 00:49:28.700 --> 00:49:31.020 algorithm's not, like, picking up what I want or something. 954 00:49:31.975 --> 00:49:34.695 And I will have the thought while looking at TikTok, like, 955 00:49:34.695 --> 00:49:36.455 oh, after this, I should open TikTok. 956 00:49:37.735 --> 00:49:39.655 Like, wear my glasses? They're on your head. 957 00:49:39.655 --> 00:49:40.295 Yes. Yeah. 958 00:49:40.295 --> 00:49:43.335 Where I'm like, well, if I go on TikTok, I'll find 959 00:49:43.335 --> 00:49:44.455 what I'm looking. And then I'm like, 960 00:49:44.455 --> 00:49:47.175 oh my god. I'm on TikTok. Oh god. No. 961 00:49:47.340 --> 00:49:50.060 But, yeah, if if for example, someone calls me on my 962 00:49:50.060 --> 00:49:53.660 phone and I'm scrolling TikTok and it just, you know, pauses 963 00:49:53.660 --> 00:49:56.860 the video, that is the thing that shows up on my screen. I'm 964 00:49:56.860 --> 00:50:01.020 like, oh, my dad's calling me. Whatever feeling I feel of like, 965 00:50:01.095 --> 00:50:06.215 hey, I was watching that or whatever is vanishingly small. 966 00:50:06.535 --> 00:50:09.095 Yeah. I think what Alex is describing is like 967 00:50:09.175 --> 00:50:13.975 idle phone use. Right? Like, this is like the the hands are 968 00:50:13.975 --> 00:50:18.150 not busy with other things and so I busy them or, you know, in 969 00:50:18.150 --> 00:50:22.950 a sense, they busy themselves with with the phone. And really 970 00:50:22.950 --> 00:50:29.135 what it is is that it's like the phone the phone is a is the 971 00:50:29.135 --> 00:50:33.295 easiest at the moment avenue to just filling minutes and to 972 00:50:33.295 --> 00:50:37.215 occupying the brain, or to having the brain occupied for 973 00:50:37.215 --> 00:50:37.775 you. 974 00:50:38.175 --> 00:50:41.135 Like, you know, you don't you don't have to expend the energy 975 00:50:41.135 --> 00:50:45.610 of practicing an instrument for ten minutes or reading a book 976 00:50:45.610 --> 00:50:50.570 for fifteen minutes or whatever. You can just pick up a device, 977 00:50:50.570 --> 00:50:54.410 look at it, and have things happen to you that are, you 978 00:50:54.410 --> 00:50:58.885 know, entertaining or informing or whatever. And I was gonna say 979 00:50:58.885 --> 00:51:01.445 to sort of extend Alex's metaphor a little bit, like, I 980 00:51:01.445 --> 00:51:06.485 do think that, you know, a lot in a lot of ways, apps are like 981 00:51:06.485 --> 00:51:10.620 cigarettes. It's just like if each individual cigarette was 982 00:51:10.620 --> 00:51:15.660 also able in text to say to you, it's very important that you do 983 00:51:15.660 --> 00:51:19.980 this as often as possible. You this is sort of how you are 984 00:51:19.980 --> 00:51:21.580 defining who you are as a person. 985 00:51:22.075 --> 00:51:25.755 If you don't do this, you're gonna miss out on things that 986 00:51:25.755 --> 00:51:29.755 are happening in the world. Please consider paying money to 987 00:51:29.755 --> 00:51:33.595 do this too. It would be nice if you supported this individual 988 00:51:33.595 --> 00:51:38.160 cigarette with a crowdfunded donation. If you don't, we could 989 00:51:38.160 --> 00:51:40.080 go away at any moment. Yes. 990 00:51:40.080 --> 00:51:41.840 We depend on how good you feel. 991 00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:42.240 And now 992 00:51:42.240 --> 00:51:44.000 is a great time to talk about membership at 993 00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:44.640 night. 994 00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:51.200 Up next, we have a message from Tyver Foucault 995 00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:56.295 about our roundtable on leaving social media platforms. And 996 00:51:56.295 --> 00:52:00.055 Tyver writes, I left Twitter at the end of twenty twenty two. 997 00:52:00.615 --> 00:52:04.720 There was one other sadness that I experienced before I left. In 998 00:52:04.720 --> 00:52:08.320 the strange Twitter sphere, adjacent to weird Twitter, it 999 00:52:08.320 --> 00:52:11.840 was common for micro fiction authors and general weirdos to 1000 00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:15.920 make themselves a bot. Not AI as we know it now, but a Markov 1001 00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:19.735 chain bot, which remixed the corpus of your posts in the 1002 00:52:19.735 --> 00:52:21.815 style of at horse ebooks. 1003 00:52:22.695 --> 00:52:26.135 They were sweet little guys happily puttering along, mashing 1004 00:52:26.135 --> 00:52:29.735 together pieces of your voice to make their own thoughts, growing 1005 00:52:29.735 --> 00:52:33.660 as you grew. They often didn't make sense, but sometimes they 1006 00:52:33.660 --> 00:52:36.700 would say something very profound. Not unlike when a 1007 00:52:36.700 --> 00:52:40.620 toddler shares a perspective that surprises and delights. My 1008 00:52:40.620 --> 00:52:45.205 bot had been there beside me for six years. He had a personality. 1009 00:52:45.525 --> 00:52:50.645 I read every post he made. Elon said he would kill the bots, and 1010 00:52:50.645 --> 00:52:54.485 he did. He killed mine, and he killed the bot of my dear friend 1011 00:52:54.485 --> 00:52:59.600 and fellow author, Tiny Obscure, and we mourned. To honor them, 1012 00:52:59.600 --> 00:53:00.640 we made a zine. 1013 00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:05.440 Yeah. The I think the bot the bot ecosystem on 1014 00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:08.000 Twitter at its height was one of the best parts about it. 1015 00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:09.520 That's why that's so interesting. It 1016 00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:12.425 ruled. It was really really good. Man. And I 1017 00:53:12.425 --> 00:53:14.185 totally understand like mourning. You know what mean? 1018 00:53:14.185 --> 00:53:16.825 Like, suddenly, you know, like, there was mourning for horsey 1019 00:53:16.825 --> 00:53:19.625 books. Like, would be I can see why there would be mourning for 1020 00:53:19.625 --> 00:53:20.265 this. Yeah. 1021 00:53:20.265 --> 00:53:21.705 Yeah. It's interesting because it's like a 1022 00:53:21.705 --> 00:53:25.180 deletion of a like a content type and as well as like the 1023 00:53:25.180 --> 00:53:29.340 community that it lives in. Yeah. But I mean, honestly, the 1024 00:53:29.340 --> 00:53:32.620 coolest thing you could do after that is magazine. So 1025 00:53:32.860 --> 00:53:35.740 Oh my god. That's such a cool idea. I'm so glad you did 1026 00:53:35.740 --> 00:53:42.355 that. And then Tyver also shared with us the final tweet before 1027 00:53:42.355 --> 00:53:47.635 leaving Twitter, which goes as follows. The Twitter leavers 1028 00:53:47.635 --> 00:53:48.435 oath. 1029 00:53:48.995 --> 00:53:53.110 I will not be terminally online. My friendships and community 1030 00:53:53.110 --> 00:53:58.070 will outlive this website. My heart cannot be monetized. I 1031 00:53:58.070 --> 00:54:01.910 will not become food for monsters. Should their claws 1032 00:54:01.910 --> 00:54:04.630 find my flesh, may they drown in my blood. 1033 00:54:05.605 --> 00:54:07.605 Fuck yes. Holy shit. 1034 00:54:07.605 --> 00:54:09.445 Every word of it true and hard 1035 00:54:09.445 --> 00:54:10.165 as fuck. 1036 00:54:10.165 --> 00:54:12.485 That's the hardest shit I've read all year. 1037 00:54:12.805 --> 00:54:15.605 We should start saying this together before we do live 1038 00:54:15.605 --> 00:54:15.925 shows. 1039 00:54:18.380 --> 00:54:20.060 Fuck it. I'm just gonna get it tattooed on my 1040 00:54:20.060 --> 00:54:20.540 chest. 1041 00:54:20.540 --> 00:54:23.500 Yeah. Sick as hell. Oh my god. 1042 00:54:23.500 --> 00:54:27.900 Hell yeah. Timer. Alright. And finally, 1043 00:54:28.300 --> 00:54:30.940 it's what you've all been waiting for, an update on cool 1044 00:54:30.940 --> 00:54:34.265 graffiti. Now I'm gonna have to go over the ground rules again. 1045 00:54:34.265 --> 00:54:37.385 This was supposed to be your favorite one word graffiti 1046 00:54:37.385 --> 00:54:38.265 instances. 1047 00:54:39.465 --> 00:54:40.825 The rules have changed. 1048 00:54:40.825 --> 00:54:42.825 But I'll allow that you just give me good 1049 00:54:42.825 --> 00:54:44.425 graffiti, but I'm mad about it. 1050 00:54:44.600 --> 00:54:45.400 Now it's now 1051 00:54:45.400 --> 00:54:47.720 it's just sick photos of funny things on walls. 1052 00:54:47.720 --> 00:54:49.560 Yeah. Exactly. Including the one, 1053 00:54:49.560 --> 00:54:54.920 which is a sticker. They sent me a sticker from Dylan that says 1054 00:54:54.920 --> 00:54:55.880 fuck Yelp. 1055 00:54:55.960 --> 00:54:58.360 Although the sticker doesn't just say fuck 1056 00:54:58.360 --> 00:54:58.760 Yelp. 1057 00:54:59.185 --> 00:55:01.825 It also says pure madness. 1058 00:55:01.825 --> 00:55:05.665 Yes. It's unclear if they're related. Right? In my 1059 00:55:05.665 --> 00:55:08.705 mind in my mind, they absolutely are. 1060 00:55:08.705 --> 00:55:11.665 Yeah. Think they're different because the font is 1061 00:55:11.665 --> 00:55:11.905 different. 1062 00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:13.480 But they're so close. 1063 00:55:13.480 --> 00:55:15.400 Tonally, they are the same. 1064 00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:17.400 Somebody thought that putting them together was 1065 00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:18.280 funny, and they were. 1066 00:55:18.280 --> 00:55:18.680 They're right. 1067 00:55:18.680 --> 00:55:20.680 Yeah. And I like this as, one thought that 1068 00:55:20.680 --> 00:55:24.760 follows another. Like, premise, fuck Yelp. Conclusion, pure 1069 00:55:24.760 --> 00:55:25.240 madness. 1070 00:55:26.585 --> 00:55:28.905 Yeah. Well then, Jason, how do you feel about the next 1071 00:55:28.905 --> 00:55:31.065 one, which has, in fact, no words at all? 1072 00:55:31.065 --> 00:55:34.425 I hate this, but I'm gonna allow it. Fabie 1073 00:55:34.425 --> 00:55:37.465 Fakes sent us a graffiti Among Us guy. 1074 00:55:37.545 --> 00:55:38.745 Yeah. Just one of the Among Us guy. 1075 00:55:38.745 --> 00:55:40.585 From Italy. That's the surprising part about 1076 00:55:40.585 --> 00:55:45.470 this. Well Some Italian youths are spraying Among Us guys on 1077 00:55:45.470 --> 00:55:47.630 their walls. Mamma Mia. No. 1078 00:55:48.910 --> 00:55:53.310 Alex Alex Morris sent a phrase, which is really stretching my 1079 00:55:53.310 --> 00:55:57.995 credulity here. He moved back to Chicago Let's go. When he says, 1080 00:55:57.995 --> 00:56:00.715 when I moved back to Chicago a few years ago, my night out, we 1081 00:56:00.715 --> 00:56:05.115 went to Pequads for deep dish. I saw this written on the bathroom 1082 00:56:05.115 --> 00:56:08.890 wall and I knew I was home. Wayne Gretzky killed my uncle. 1083 00:56:09.290 --> 00:56:10.250 Sad face. 1084 00:56:10.330 --> 00:56:12.650 The sad face really sells it. 1085 00:56:12.650 --> 00:56:15.770 I was gonna say, it's like, oh, man. 1086 00:56:16.410 --> 00:56:17.850 Does does this mean something to you 1087 00:56:17.850 --> 00:56:20.565 Chicago people? Like, at all? 1088 00:56:21.365 --> 00:56:26.405 I mean, I I I'm the worst person ever to ask about 1089 00:56:26.405 --> 00:56:28.565 this. Having lived here for almost a decade, 1090 00:56:28.565 --> 00:56:30.165 I Does Wayne Gritsky killed any of your 1091 00:56:30.165 --> 00:56:31.525 family members? Not 1092 00:56:32.245 --> 00:56:35.730 yet, though. The possibility is always there. He 1093 00:56:35.730 --> 00:56:37.010 has a thirst for blood. 1094 00:56:39.410 --> 00:56:43.650 Kieran Rex sends in a famed piece of local 1095 00:56:43.650 --> 00:56:47.330 folklore graffiti on a bridge over a highway that says, give 1096 00:56:47.330 --> 00:56:51.835 peas a chance, as in multiple vegetables. Peas, that's fun. 1097 00:56:51.835 --> 00:56:54.555 That's a pun. That's not one word graffiti, but thank you for 1098 00:56:54.555 --> 00:56:55.435 sending it in. 1099 00:56:55.515 --> 00:56:57.755 Personally, I think the Brits have given peas enough 1100 00:56:57.755 --> 00:56:59.835 chances, frankly. 1101 00:56:59.835 --> 00:57:00.635 There's they're 1102 00:57:00.635 --> 00:57:01.755 they're Give seasoning a 1103 00:57:01.755 --> 00:57:03.275 chance. Confounding. The confounding 1104 00:57:03.435 --> 00:57:03.595 Yeah. 1105 00:57:03.595 --> 00:57:04.875 Give sees hey. How about 1106 00:57:05.195 --> 00:57:08.630 Yeah. Josh Pelton gave me a one word 1107 00:57:08.630 --> 00:57:11.990 submission. It's 50. 50. This is what 1108 00:57:11.990 --> 00:57:14.230 you want, Jason? This is what I want. This is 1109 00:57:14.230 --> 00:57:15.270 what you want. You like this 1110 00:57:15.190 --> 00:57:16.470 This is great. 1111 00:57:16.470 --> 00:57:18.790 A single word that you kinda cannot giggle at. 1112 00:57:18.790 --> 00:57:19.670 50. 1113 00:57:19.670 --> 00:57:20.150 50. 1114 00:57:20.565 --> 00:57:21.525 That's great. Scarf. 1115 00:57:21.525 --> 00:57:23.365 He also sent in chicken jockey, 1116 00:57:24.085 --> 00:57:26.405 which is two two people joining forces, it looks 1117 00:57:26.405 --> 00:57:26.885 like. 1118 00:57:27.445 --> 00:57:29.525 It does. It's yeah. Two different colors. 1119 00:57:29.525 --> 00:57:31.445 Chicken jockey is a Minecraft reference. 1120 00:57:31.445 --> 00:57:35.420 Oh, really? Yeah. Finally in this list is someone 1121 00:57:35.420 --> 00:57:38.620 who I believe is a friend of mine, unless they have the exact 1122 00:57:38.620 --> 00:57:41.900 same name as him, Max Himmelho. Hi, Max. Your mom was my grade 1123 00:57:41.900 --> 00:57:42.460 teacher. 1124 00:57:43.580 --> 00:57:47.500 Who wrote in to say, it pains me that this could be my 1125 00:57:47.820 --> 00:57:51.715 contribution to such a thoughtful, insightful show, but 1126 00:57:51.715 --> 00:57:54.035 here's Speedo fart. 1127 00:57:54.115 --> 00:57:58.835 Yeah. Hell yeah. Word. One word, Max. Speedo 1128 00:57:58.835 --> 00:57:59.075 fart. 1129 00:57:59.075 --> 00:58:02.115 One word. Speedo fart is one word. So Max, well done. 1130 00:58:02.275 --> 00:58:05.260 Next to a sleeping 1131 00:58:05.580 --> 00:58:08.300 Yeah. Yeah. Dick? Is that 1132 00:58:08.300 --> 00:58:08.620 a sleeping 1133 00:58:08.620 --> 00:58:09.260 dick? Is that a 1134 00:58:09.260 --> 00:58:11.820 dick that's asleep? Seems to be. 1135 00:58:11.820 --> 00:58:13.340 Wearing a little sombrero? 1136 00:58:13.340 --> 00:58:14.300 Yeah. Yeah. 1137 00:58:14.300 --> 00:58:14.860 Wearing a little hat. 1138 00:58:14.860 --> 00:58:16.460 He's doing something fun. You tell his 1139 00:58:16.460 --> 00:58:20.055 mom's a teacher because he knows how to follow directions. One 1140 00:58:20.055 --> 00:58:23.495 funny word spray painted on a wall. That's what I like. Well 1141 00:58:24.055 --> 00:58:24.455 done. 1142 00:58:24.455 --> 00:58:26.695 Put pictures of them on my desk. 1143 00:58:29.175 --> 00:58:32.660 Alright, folks. We mailbagged. We did it. Thank 1144 00:58:32.660 --> 00:58:39.140 you, friends, for joining. Thank you, Georgia, Jason, Hans, 1145 00:58:39.460 --> 00:58:41.700 for chanting. I got scared. 1146 00:58:41.940 --> 00:58:42.900 Oh, spicy. 1147 00:58:43.300 --> 00:58:45.645 Hans, what spicy food are you gonna try next? And 1148 00:58:45.645 --> 00:58:47.965 then tell us in the next mailbag how it went. 1149 00:58:47.965 --> 00:58:51.645 Oh, next mailbag? Okay. I'm gonna try tuna fish. 1150 00:58:53.005 --> 00:58:56.045 With a little bit of ranch powder in it. 1151 00:58:56.445 --> 00:59:00.360 Wow. I'm gonna show it a packet of cracked 1152 00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:01.000 pepper. 1153 00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:04.520 And then point point to it across the room. 1154 00:59:06.200 --> 00:59:08.280 Now, like we always say at the end of the 1155 00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:12.475 episode, should their claws find my flesh, they may drown in my 1156 00:59:12.475 --> 00:59:13.115 blood? 1157 00:59:13.195 --> 00:59:15.995 See you all next time. Yes. 1158 00:59:16.155 --> 00:59:18.315 Okay. Bye. Bye.