WEBVTT 1 00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:19.015 We rolling? Friends, hello. This is Never Post, a 2 00:00:19.015 --> 00:00:24.615 show for and about the Internet. I am today's host, Hans Buetow, 3 00:00:24.615 --> 00:00:30.680 senior producer of the show. And you, you gruesome crew, you 4 00:00:30.680 --> 00:00:31.960 screwly ghoulies. 5 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:37.800 It is now September, which means I've basically transitioned into 6 00:00:37.800 --> 00:00:43.895 a whole new season. I am in spooky season now. And when you 7 00:00:43.895 --> 00:00:48.455 last heard from us a week ago, we were still in a chill time 8 00:00:48.455 --> 00:00:51.415 summer zone. We were still nearing the end of our month 9 00:00:51.415 --> 00:00:54.980 long August member drive. And now here we are looking towards 10 00:00:54.980 --> 00:00:58.580 the future that's all spooky and weird, but it's a good time to 11 00:00:58.580 --> 00:00:58.980 reflect. 12 00:00:58.980 --> 00:01:01.940 It's a good time to look backwards. And that's why you 13 00:01:01.940 --> 00:01:08.925 are hearing this special bonus episode right now. During 14 00:01:08.925 --> 00:01:13.405 August, we had set ourselves the goal as a show of getting 200 15 00:01:13.725 --> 00:01:17.725 new members. This is important for us as a milestone on our 16 00:01:17.725 --> 00:01:22.525 path to sustainability. It is not the final milestone by any 17 00:01:22.500 --> 00:01:26.020 but it's a milestone that means that there's a much better 18 00:01:26.020 --> 00:01:29.140 chance that we are going be able to continue making this program 19 00:01:29.300 --> 00:01:32.900 through the spooky season, into the foodie season, into the 20 00:01:32.900 --> 00:01:36.355 holiday season, into wintery season, into the mid wintery 21 00:01:36.355 --> 00:01:38.115 season, etc. 22 00:01:38.755 --> 00:01:44.595 So our goal was 200 members and going into the August, the final 23 00:01:44.595 --> 00:01:51.030 week of our memo drive, we were at an amazing 154 new members. 24 00:01:51.030 --> 00:01:54.950 That's 154 new people who decided to join with us and 25 00:01:54.950 --> 00:01:57.590 participate in our little community. And in the 26 00:01:57.590 --> 00:02:02.145 intervening week since you last heard from us, we added an 27 00:02:02.145 --> 00:02:07.665 incredible 23 new members, including two more gifted 28 00:02:07.665 --> 00:02:11.105 members that were gifted by incredible members of our 29 00:02:11.105 --> 00:02:15.810 community for folks who might not be in a financial situation 30 00:02:15.810 --> 00:02:19.410 to support us right now, but you would still enjoy a membership. 31 00:02:19.410 --> 00:02:22.690 Those are available to you. This is my reminder to you that you 32 00:02:22.690 --> 00:02:26.370 can email us at theneverpostgmail dot com with 33 00:02:26.370 --> 00:02:30.775 the subject line all caps Gift Membership to claim one of 34 00:02:30.775 --> 00:02:31.335 those. 35 00:02:31.655 --> 00:02:36.135 While they last, send us an email. So where are we at at the 36 00:02:36.135 --> 00:02:40.055 August, at the end of our member fundraising? Out of the goal of 37 00:02:40.055 --> 00:02:48.130 200, we are at 177 new members. It's a mere 23 members away from 38 00:02:48.130 --> 00:02:53.330 our goal, which just happens to be the exact amount of new 39 00:02:53.330 --> 00:02:57.090 members who joined us last week. And so we thought to ourselves, 40 00:02:57.090 --> 00:03:02.715 let's keep the fun times going into this new season and extend 41 00:03:02.715 --> 00:03:07.035 the drive one more week in the hopes that we can reach this 42 00:03:07.035 --> 00:03:12.620 goal together of 200 new members and bring this team chat out 43 00:03:12.620 --> 00:03:16.220 from behind the member wall for you all to enjoy. 44 00:03:16.540 --> 00:03:20.380 This is an example of the kind of cool things we put back there 45 00:03:20.380 --> 00:03:26.715 in the members' hands. Stuff like Never Watch, our watch 46 00:03:26.715 --> 00:03:31.355 along podcast where we just, I guess, watch movies from 1995 47 00:03:31.355 --> 00:03:35.035 together with you. You get to watch along with us as we watch 48 00:03:35.035 --> 00:03:39.800 and discover these amazing internet movies from 1995 49 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:44.360 alongside us. You can listen to Slow Post, which is a show I 50 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:49.400 make about falling asleep. Really, we read Wikipedia to you 51 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:51.240 until you doze off gently. 52 00:03:52.415 --> 00:03:55.375 Post from the Field, which is field recordings, extended 53 00:03:55.375 --> 00:03:59.135 segments, which is long versions of stuff that we put in so that 54 00:03:59.135 --> 00:04:05.135 you can get more of that good stuff. So this episode, this 55 00:04:05.135 --> 00:04:08.390 right here, this is a team chat. This is something we recorded 56 00:04:08.390 --> 00:04:13.110 live while we were on Twitch with our pals in the chat during 57 00:04:13.110 --> 00:04:16.470 our member drive stream week a couple of weeks ago. And 58 00:04:16.470 --> 00:04:19.750 remember that twitch.tv/theneverpost is where 59 00:04:19.750 --> 00:04:22.515 you wanna direct yourself if you want to follow us and make sure 60 00:04:22.515 --> 00:04:25.315 you're there the next time we stream a chat like this because, 61 00:04:25.635 --> 00:04:29.395 spoiler, we're gonna stream something like this because it 62 00:04:29.395 --> 00:04:32.835 was so much fun. We will do more of these, and this recording was 63 00:04:32.835 --> 00:04:33.475 so much fun. 64 00:04:34.130 --> 00:04:38.530 We had such a good time. I really hope you enjoy it, and I 65 00:04:38.530 --> 00:04:44.370 hope that it can help us close out our member drive strong. And 66 00:04:44.370 --> 00:04:49.355 you can be the one to help us do that. You can go to neverpo.st 67 00:04:49.355 --> 00:04:55.195 and become a member for a mere $4 a month. That is less than a 68 00:04:55.195 --> 00:04:58.235 pumpkin spice latte, I think. 69 00:04:58.555 --> 00:05:01.435 I'm actually not sure about that, but I'd imagine it had to 70 00:05:01.435 --> 00:05:05.810 be. $4 a month. You can get access to all the fun things 71 00:05:05.810 --> 00:05:10.210 like this and truly and actually meaningfully make it possible 72 00:05:10.210 --> 00:05:17.810 for us to continue to make this program. So enough of me. Let's 73 00:05:17.810 --> 00:05:24.235 get to me and other people talking about cool stuff on the 74 00:05:24.235 --> 00:05:24.875 Internet. 75 00:05:25.515 --> 00:05:26.715 Thanks for being here. 76 00:05:31.115 --> 00:05:34.810 Friends, hello, and welcome to team chat. Never post 77 00:05:34.810 --> 00:05:37.450 member drive stream week. I'm your host, Mike Rugnetta. And 78 00:05:37.450 --> 00:05:41.370 today, we have gathered an esteemed group of exactly the 79 00:05:41.370 --> 00:05:44.730 people you would expect to discuss. What? 80 00:05:45.210 --> 00:05:48.945 Well, wait one moment, and we'll tell you. First, introductions. 81 00:05:49.265 --> 00:05:52.705 Joining me in order of how much time I think that they have 82 00:05:52.705 --> 00:05:58.225 spent finely honing their craft as a Brooklyn ceramicist. 83 00:06:01.060 --> 00:06:01.860 Oh my god. 84 00:06:01.860 --> 00:06:03.060 Get cooked. 85 00:06:03.540 --> 00:06:07.780 Ascending. Are Jason Oberholtzer, never post 86 00:06:07.780 --> 00:06:08.820 executive producer. 87 00:06:08.820 --> 00:06:09.700 Kapow. 88 00:06:11.700 --> 00:06:13.700 Georgia Hampton, never post producer. 89 00:06:13.700 --> 00:06:15.715 You know what? Fair enough. But one day, I'll get 90 00:06:15.715 --> 00:06:16.195 you. 91 00:06:16.835 --> 00:06:19.155 Hans Buetow, never post senior producer. 92 00:06:19.155 --> 00:06:21.635 Wow. Honored that I made it this far in the running. 93 00:06:22.355 --> 00:06:26.355 And Meghal Janardan, friend of the show and famed. 94 00:06:26.435 --> 00:06:26.755 Yes. 95 00:06:27.090 --> 00:06:27.890 Brooklyn Ceramics. 96 00:06:27.970 --> 00:06:30.290 Very recently showcased. 97 00:06:30.290 --> 00:06:31.490 A little box. 98 00:06:31.570 --> 00:06:33.810 Mike Mike, where are you on that? 99 00:06:33.810 --> 00:06:36.770 I mean, I live in Brooklyn. I have never touched 100 00:06:36.770 --> 00:06:40.610 ceramics. Okay. Not even a finished mug. 101 00:06:40.610 --> 00:06:41.730 I just don't I just don't. 102 00:06:41.965 --> 00:06:43.085 Touch clay 103 00:06:43.325 --> 00:06:45.725 Yeah. Ever. Someone tries to hand me a plate, and I just 104 00:06:45.725 --> 00:06:46.445 smack it out of their hand. 105 00:06:46.445 --> 00:06:47.405 Get this away from me. 106 00:06:47.405 --> 00:06:49.565 Yeah. You're telling me you made this out of the ground? 107 00:06:50.525 --> 00:06:52.125 Disgusting. Where the worms are? 108 00:06:52.125 --> 00:06:53.325 What am I? A peasant? 109 00:06:54.125 --> 00:06:58.370 Okay. What are we here to discuss? Because I think I do 110 00:06:58.370 --> 00:07:01.330 not remember us deciding what it is, but it I think there is 111 00:07:01.330 --> 00:07:01.970 quorum. 112 00:07:01.970 --> 00:07:04.130 Yes. There was a decision. There was a decision. 113 00:07:04.130 --> 00:07:06.050 Okay. Megal, I feel like you're the one who should explain. 114 00:07:06.050 --> 00:07:07.090 Yes. It was your idea. 115 00:07:07.090 --> 00:07:11.585 The topic for today's team chat is going over a piece 116 00:07:11.585 --> 00:07:17.185 of technology from an old film TV show that you thought would 117 00:07:17.185 --> 00:07:18.065 exist by now. 118 00:07:18.065 --> 00:07:21.985 Mhmm. The technological promises made by media when we 119 00:07:21.985 --> 00:07:22.625 were growing up 120 00:07:22.865 --> 00:07:23.265 Yes. 121 00:07:23.425 --> 00:07:24.625 And where we are in relation. 122 00:07:25.710 --> 00:07:28.030 I mean, can I just say the elephant in the room is flying 123 00:07:28.030 --> 00:07:28.350 cars? 124 00:07:28.350 --> 00:07:31.390 Well, of course. That's like that's the free space on 125 00:07:31.390 --> 00:07:32.430 the bingo board. 126 00:07:32.430 --> 00:07:36.510 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Let's just get that out of way. 127 00:07:36.510 --> 00:07:38.990 I feel like there are two there are two elephants in the 128 00:07:38.990 --> 00:07:42.215 room. Okay. The room is very full because of both of the 129 00:07:42.215 --> 00:07:42.935 elephants. 130 00:07:43.015 --> 00:07:45.095 The sneakers from, the sneakers from Back to Future 131 00:07:45.095 --> 00:07:45.335 two? 132 00:07:45.335 --> 00:07:47.335 Sneakers from Back to the what everybody was is 133 00:07:47.335 --> 00:07:48.935 that the other elephant? That's what we've all been 134 00:07:48.935 --> 00:07:49.415 thinking. 135 00:07:50.135 --> 00:07:53.415 The one that I always think of, I think of flying cars 136 00:07:53.415 --> 00:07:55.820 first. The other one that I always think of is the matter 137 00:07:55.820 --> 00:07:57.180 replicator from Star Trek. 138 00:07:57.180 --> 00:07:59.980 Oh. Oh. Nice. Yeah. 139 00:08:00.300 --> 00:08:05.020 So was the proposed tech behind this just at a molecular 140 00:08:05.020 --> 00:08:08.220 level, things are things, and if we can reassemble by molecules, 141 00:08:08.415 --> 00:08:10.895 we can make another one of the things exactly. 142 00:08:11.135 --> 00:08:15.215 Yeah. And, like, there's you know, we figured out such a 143 00:08:15.215 --> 00:08:20.815 way that our raw materials are no longer inextricably linked to 144 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:24.840 pulling resources out of the ground. Mhmm. We live in a sort 145 00:08:24.840 --> 00:08:29.640 of Mhmm. Free energy post scarcity society such that we 146 00:08:29.640 --> 00:08:31.240 can just make whatever we want. 147 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:33.960 Yeah. We don't have to worry about, like, running out of 148 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:37.915 stuff because we figured out how to either endlessly recycle or, 149 00:08:37.915 --> 00:08:41.195 yeah, just like pull the resources needed from the air. 150 00:08:41.195 --> 00:08:41.595 Yep. 151 00:08:41.595 --> 00:08:43.755 And you at one point thought we might have that by 152 00:08:43.755 --> 00:08:44.235 now. 153 00:08:45.355 --> 00:08:48.235 Or some version of it. Right? Like, I think three d 154 00:08:48.235 --> 00:08:52.270 printers maybe getting close, but but still very far. But, no, 155 00:08:52.270 --> 00:08:55.310 I feel like there's this is like a pretty common trope in sci fi. 156 00:08:55.310 --> 00:08:55.550 Right? 157 00:08:55.550 --> 00:09:00.190 Like, the matter replicator, the the printer of, I get food, I 158 00:09:00.190 --> 00:09:04.905 get objects that I need, I get tools. Maybe not with the post 159 00:09:04.905 --> 00:09:08.585 scarcity side of it. Yeah. But at the very least, a thing in 160 00:09:08.585 --> 00:09:11.145 your house that, like, gives you the stuff that you need. What do 161 00:09:11.145 --> 00:09:13.225 you think was the first what was the first example of 162 00:09:13.225 --> 00:09:15.065 that? Do you do you think it was, like, original Star Trek? 163 00:09:15.065 --> 00:09:17.960 They didn't have matter replicators, did they? I think 164 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:18.360 of it as 165 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:20.360 being very much related to the next generation, but I'm 166 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:20.840 not sure. 167 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:22.520 I mean, that's where I think of it too. It's very much 168 00:09:22.520 --> 00:09:24.760 a next generation thing. But was the nineties the first time we 169 00:09:24.760 --> 00:09:26.280 really conceived of this sort of thing? 170 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:29.560 No way. The books have had this before, certainly. 171 00:09:29.560 --> 00:09:30.680 Yeah. That's true. That's true. 172 00:09:31.895 --> 00:09:35.175 I'm thinking of one in particular who does Clifford D. 173 00:09:35.175 --> 00:09:37.815 Simak was all over this with, like, the way station sort of 174 00:09:37.815 --> 00:09:41.095 thing, mostly with, people moving and replicating. But he 175 00:09:41.095 --> 00:09:44.455 was, like, you know, sixties, seventies, I think, particularly 176 00:09:44.455 --> 00:09:47.510 obsessed with this. I think the goblin reservation starts off 177 00:09:47.510 --> 00:09:50.150 with the idea that at a molecular level, you can 178 00:09:50.150 --> 00:09:53.430 replicate a living creature. And so that is how they would 179 00:09:53.430 --> 00:09:53.830 travel. 180 00:09:53.830 --> 00:09:56.870 You walked in a door and were replicated molecule by molecule 181 00:09:56.870 --> 00:09:59.910 elsewhere across the galaxy and sort of begins with that 182 00:09:59.910 --> 00:10:03.675 existential question of, like, is that is that Theseus ship 183 00:10:03.675 --> 00:10:04.555 still you? 184 00:10:04.715 --> 00:10:07.995 Yeah. This is the Derek Parfitt tell tele transporter 185 00:10:07.995 --> 00:10:12.075 problem. We also we cruised through introductions and forgot 186 00:10:12.075 --> 00:10:13.035 to introduce someone. 187 00:10:13.035 --> 00:10:14.955 That's so true. Best friend. 188 00:10:14.955 --> 00:10:16.870 Jason's best friend, Chad. 189 00:10:16.870 --> 00:10:17.990 Chad is with us. 190 00:10:18.230 --> 00:10:22.470 Chad is with us. We are recording this team chat segment 191 00:10:22.470 --> 00:10:30.065 with Chad live on Twitch, and Chad is already making some much 192 00:10:30.065 --> 00:10:34.305 needed a plus contributions to the conversation. Scorching Ray 193 00:10:34.305 --> 00:10:37.505 reminds us that fun fact, the food replicator in Star Trek 194 00:10:37.585 --> 00:10:38.865 fueled by poop. 195 00:10:40.145 --> 00:10:40.705 Really? 196 00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:44.080 Now I feel more optimistic we might get it. 197 00:10:44.080 --> 00:10:45.120 Yeah. Honestly. And 198 00:10:45.760 --> 00:10:49.440 Hans Peaches and Streams offers that the original Star 199 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:52.160 Trek could print food. So that poop food? 200 00:10:52.160 --> 00:10:53.600 Sooner or later, it all is, man. 201 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:55.200 Just a sore. You go. 202 00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:56.240 Yeah. We're just eating Yep. 203 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:57.840 Food off of dirt cups. 204 00:10:59.495 --> 00:11:02.455 Makes you nervous. Boy, do I have news for you about 205 00:11:02.455 --> 00:11:07.255 dirt. And what's in there? You're not gonna like it. So 206 00:11:07.735 --> 00:11:10.775 yeah, we're talking at least in in in in visual science 207 00:11:10.775 --> 00:11:14.190 fiction at least the sixties, if not earlier. I'm guessing 208 00:11:14.190 --> 00:11:17.150 fifties. I'm guessing there's, like, b science fiction movies 209 00:11:17.150 --> 00:11:19.470 all the way back to the thirties. Arthur C. 210 00:11:19.470 --> 00:11:20.830 Clarke certainly has touched this. 211 00:11:20.830 --> 00:11:22.430 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And in books and lore. Yeah. 212 00:11:22.430 --> 00:11:26.430 Can you describe the matter replicator in you said 213 00:11:26.430 --> 00:11:27.470 Star Trek or Star Wars? 214 00:11:27.975 --> 00:11:28.855 Star Trek. Trek. 215 00:11:28.855 --> 00:11:30.855 Star Trek. Yeah. For those who are not familiar. 216 00:11:30.855 --> 00:11:32.935 Basically, like a little box in the wall and you beep 217 00:11:32.935 --> 00:11:36.535 boop beep, like a microwave, some buttons. And then in a 218 00:11:36.535 --> 00:11:40.775 little box, maybe about the size of a little bigger than a bread 219 00:11:40.775 --> 00:11:41.015 box? 220 00:11:41.015 --> 00:11:41.815 Like a microwave? 221 00:11:41.815 --> 00:11:43.655 Yeah. Yeah. Something small. Yeah. Small microwave. 222 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:46.640 It would just print whatever it is that you beep boop beeped in. 223 00:11:46.640 --> 00:11:48.560 Oh, okay. So like you 224 00:11:48.560 --> 00:11:51.280 could get if I remember correctly, you could beep boop 225 00:11:51.280 --> 00:11:53.600 beeping, like, you know, ask for ice cream, but you would also 226 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:56.240 get the dish that the ice cream comes from. The dish. 227 00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:59.945 Yeah. And then you put the dish back in and then it matters 228 00:11:59.945 --> 00:12:03.305 some away. To me that so many moments like this in 229 00:12:03.305 --> 00:12:05.225 film and TV are in a kitchen. 230 00:12:05.225 --> 00:12:06.105 Oh, yeah. 231 00:12:06.105 --> 00:12:10.825 I think in a way, some version of food printer, in my 232 00:12:10.825 --> 00:12:14.105 mind, has always felt more likely than flying car. 233 00:12:14.190 --> 00:12:14.990 Yes. 234 00:12:14.990 --> 00:12:18.750 Mhmm. Flying car just seems like especially in The 235 00:12:18.750 --> 00:12:22.990 United States, never gonna happen. Yeah. I'd say so. But, 236 00:12:22.990 --> 00:12:27.150 like, food printer feels like something that, like it feels 237 00:12:27.150 --> 00:12:30.175 like it's always just over the horizon. 238 00:12:30.175 --> 00:12:30.575 Yeah. 239 00:12:30.575 --> 00:12:34.735 In the chat, Gadvoir says the kitchen at the center 240 00:12:34.735 --> 00:12:39.055 of technological innovation, which is true. I mean, think of, 241 00:12:39.055 --> 00:12:43.090 like, Hitchhiker's Guide, think Spy Kids has a whole scene in 242 00:12:43.090 --> 00:12:46.290 kitchens where they're, like, creating food. It's sort of, I 243 00:12:46.290 --> 00:12:49.170 don't know. It it's just this ubiquitous concept. I feel like 244 00:12:49.170 --> 00:12:50.290 everyone thinks of that. 245 00:12:50.370 --> 00:12:52.210 What I find interesting about that, George, is that it's 246 00:12:52.210 --> 00:12:55.625 a in Star Trek, at least, it's actually decentralized. Like, 247 00:12:55.625 --> 00:12:58.425 nothing is a kitchen. Nothing is a dining room. These things just 248 00:12:58.425 --> 00:13:02.665 exist kinda like bathrooms. They just exist somewhere. 249 00:13:02.985 --> 00:13:05.385 Kitchens don't exist in Star Trek. Oh. There's no 250 00:13:05.545 --> 00:13:07.145 That's like a thing. Interesting. 251 00:13:07.305 --> 00:13:08.345 There's no galley. 252 00:13:08.345 --> 00:13:10.650 There's no like a globe. There's a 253 00:13:10.650 --> 00:13:11.610 dining cloud, but there's 254 00:13:11.610 --> 00:13:12.330 no kitchen. 255 00:13:12.330 --> 00:13:13.450 Never not working. 256 00:13:13.450 --> 00:13:16.810 So there is literally no there's, the new Star Trek in 257 00:13:16.810 --> 00:13:20.490 Strange New Worlds, Kirk in the new one, is a renowned cook, and 258 00:13:20.490 --> 00:13:23.130 he, like, grows. You go into his into his quarters, and he's, 259 00:13:23.130 --> 00:13:25.665 like, growing tomatoes and stuff. And then he's, like, got 260 00:13:25.665 --> 00:13:28.065 a whole cooking setup, and it's really everybody's like, this is 261 00:13:28.065 --> 00:13:29.025 really weird. What are you doing? 262 00:13:29.025 --> 00:13:29.425 I see. 263 00:13:29.425 --> 00:13:31.665 It's almost the thing they've dispensed with being, 264 00:13:31.665 --> 00:13:33.265 like, we don't have to worry about this anymore. 265 00:13:33.265 --> 00:13:35.105 Exactly. I think it kinda still comes back to the 266 00:13:35.105 --> 00:13:39.210 kitchen, though. Right? Because Mhmm. If you have this matter 267 00:13:39.210 --> 00:13:41.930 replicator, then you don't need to cook because you can just 268 00:13:41.930 --> 00:13:42.650 make food. 269 00:13:42.650 --> 00:13:44.810 Yeah. So it's like the replacement of the kitchen. 270 00:13:44.810 --> 00:13:46.970 Yep. People are pointing out in the chat that, like, 271 00:13:46.970 --> 00:13:48.250 there are people who cook for fun. 272 00:13:48.250 --> 00:13:52.165 Yeah. Which sure. That's true. Did. Cisco's dad was a was 273 00:13:52.165 --> 00:13:53.445 a Cisco in Deep Space Nine. 274 00:13:53.445 --> 00:13:56.725 His dad was a chef. Famed like, a big part of the plot. Yeah. 275 00:13:56.725 --> 00:13:57.285 That's that's 276 00:13:57.285 --> 00:14:00.965 not true. Neelix? If you were like a soylent enjoyer or 277 00:14:00.965 --> 00:14:03.765 one of the analogs, does this make you feel like we are closer 278 00:14:03.765 --> 00:14:04.085 to this? 279 00:14:04.450 --> 00:14:06.050 Yeah. Interesting. 280 00:14:06.370 --> 00:14:07.490 No. I don't think so. 281 00:14:07.490 --> 00:14:10.610 Okay. It's not like a step on the direction reducing 282 00:14:10.770 --> 00:14:14.610 nutrition down to its raw material, and then maybe step 283 00:14:14.610 --> 00:14:16.930 two is recombining that into something tasty? 284 00:14:17.485 --> 00:14:19.405 I'm look I'm, like, looking off screen because I'm 285 00:14:19.405 --> 00:14:23.085 looking at my, like, shake container thinking about this. 286 00:14:23.405 --> 00:14:27.645 No. Because this feels like the milkshake feels really almost 287 00:14:27.645 --> 00:14:28.925 like primitive to me. 288 00:14:28.925 --> 00:14:29.165 Yeah. 289 00:14:29.540 --> 00:14:31.380 It's a snare. It yeah. 290 00:14:31.700 --> 00:14:36.340 It's like really is it maybe is an example of some sort 291 00:14:36.340 --> 00:14:40.100 of progress in that over time, they have gotten more 292 00:14:40.100 --> 00:14:44.185 nutritious, less bad for you, like, with slightly better taste 293 00:14:44.185 --> 00:14:48.265 and, like, cheaper to produce. But, like, there is nothing 294 00:14:48.265 --> 00:14:51.625 about them that is approaching the pleasure of, like, eating a 295 00:14:51.625 --> 00:14:56.585 meal. Mhmm. And none of them are are trying to it's all, like, 296 00:14:56.585 --> 00:15:00.240 hyper convenience. Whereas, like, I think of the the idea of 297 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:05.680 being able to print food as a time saving mechanism in order 298 00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:10.640 to still make something that is desirable in all of the ways 299 00:15:10.825 --> 00:15:12.905 that a cooked meal is desirable. 300 00:15:12.905 --> 00:15:16.345 Mike, if you when you watch this, what what is 301 00:15:16.345 --> 00:15:18.745 something that you want, like, when you were young that you 302 00:15:18.745 --> 00:15:20.345 wanted to print immediately? 303 00:15:20.665 --> 00:15:23.865 All of it. Anything. Give it to me. The treats. I want 304 00:15:23.865 --> 00:15:24.745 hamburgers. 305 00:15:24.745 --> 00:15:25.065 I want 306 00:15:25.225 --> 00:15:25.865 Fries. I think. 307 00:15:26.560 --> 00:15:27.440 I want fries. I want 308 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:31.760 ice always like ice cream and hamburger. Blankets. 309 00:15:31.760 --> 00:15:32.880 Oh, yes. Coffee. 310 00:15:33.040 --> 00:15:35.040 Yeah. I wanna print a coffee. To genius. 311 00:15:35.280 --> 00:15:36.800 I have another thing to nominate 312 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:37.200 Yes. 313 00:15:37.280 --> 00:15:39.920 For something I expected. I was thinking about this last 314 00:15:39.920 --> 00:15:43.255 night. So as a team, we were collectively watching the 1995 315 00:15:43.255 --> 00:15:46.375 film Virtuosity, and this reminded me of a thing that I 316 00:15:46.375 --> 00:15:49.895 feel like we've been promised at various stages, which is screens 317 00:15:49.975 --> 00:15:55.575 that are huge and actually other things. So, like, a wall that 318 00:15:55.575 --> 00:15:58.920 you suddenly comes becomes a screen. Oh. 319 00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:03.000 Or, like, screens that can come up in various places, like, kind 320 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:06.760 of the minority report, like, HUD display kind of, but more 321 00:16:06.760 --> 00:16:10.520 like like, back to the future, like, big like, big wall sized 322 00:16:10.755 --> 00:16:12.115 screens somehow. 323 00:16:12.115 --> 00:16:16.275 That I can put a picture of of, like, a waterfall with a 324 00:16:16.275 --> 00:16:17.955 mountain vista in the background. 325 00:16:17.955 --> 00:16:18.755 A 100%. 326 00:16:18.755 --> 00:16:20.435 Yeah. Because I'm trapped in a space station. 327 00:16:20.435 --> 00:16:23.180 Or like you walk into a rich guy's office, and they 328 00:16:23.500 --> 00:16:26.060 you're in the middle of a a Glenn. You're in the middle of a 329 00:16:26.060 --> 00:16:28.300 beautiful Glenn. And then he says, like, down to business. 330 00:16:28.300 --> 00:16:30.780 Yeah. And the screens that are the office become an office 331 00:16:30.780 --> 00:16:31.500 again. 332 00:16:31.900 --> 00:16:34.700 I see. So not quite the the thing where you're, like, 333 00:16:34.700 --> 00:16:36.745 pinching and zooming on these screens that are sort of 334 00:16:36.745 --> 00:16:37.785 floating in the air. 335 00:16:37.865 --> 00:16:40.905 Right. The the, like, heads up display, the minority 336 00:16:40.905 --> 00:16:42.985 report. I yeah. I think that cannot 337 00:16:42.905 --> 00:16:45.865 almost be like a VR space without the pesky need of 338 00:16:45.865 --> 00:16:46.905 wearing goggles. 339 00:16:46.985 --> 00:16:49.385 Yeah. Just like a a all hardware space, which is 340 00:16:49.385 --> 00:16:51.980 interesting because I think we have sort of jumped it. It's one 341 00:16:51.980 --> 00:16:54.780 of those things that it almost feels like they would assume 342 00:16:54.780 --> 00:16:57.900 when they were coming up with these spaces in, like, the 343 00:16:57.900 --> 00:17:00.700 eighties and nineties that this is obviously what we would like. 344 00:17:01.180 --> 00:17:04.060 And because it's impractical to get to, we kind of jumped over 345 00:17:04.060 --> 00:17:07.695 achieving that reality to things that are arcing more towards the 346 00:17:07.695 --> 00:17:11.135 pinch and zoom of the minority world. You're kinda like, 347 00:17:11.135 --> 00:17:13.055 actually, your wall should just be a wall. 348 00:17:13.055 --> 00:17:16.015 Instead, let's put like AR space around you. 349 00:17:16.015 --> 00:17:19.615 The closest thing I can think of that does exist like 350 00:17:19.615 --> 00:17:24.250 this is that some TVs where people will frame them like a 351 00:17:24.250 --> 00:17:28.010 painting Yes. And they'll have like a painting image on it that 352 00:17:28.010 --> 00:17:31.690 looks matte enough to kind of pass if you're not paying 353 00:17:31.690 --> 00:17:35.195 attention, and then it can serve as a TV. But it doesn't have 354 00:17:35.195 --> 00:17:37.275 that scale that it sounds like you want. That I 355 00:17:37.275 --> 00:17:38.875 feel like we were promised, like, watching last 356 00:17:38.875 --> 00:17:42.955 night, it's like a bunch of huge TVs all put together into like a 357 00:17:42.955 --> 00:17:46.715 grid of six. But like, actually, without the seams in it in a 358 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:49.080 full like this my whole wall in front of me should just be able 359 00:17:49.080 --> 00:17:52.280 to suddenly go and become video. 360 00:17:52.280 --> 00:17:55.880 What's the the place in Vegas? The sphere? 361 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:56.920 Yeah. The 362 00:17:56.920 --> 00:17:59.000 sphere. God. My hell. So why 363 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:00.200 are you so here? 364 00:18:00.785 --> 00:18:02.545 Say you love the sphere now. 365 00:18:03.345 --> 00:18:06.385 I love the sphere. Please more sphere. 366 00:18:06.385 --> 00:18:08.865 I did like Tim had the idea in chat of it'd be nice to 367 00:18:08.865 --> 00:18:11.505 have a wall that could change color at a touch. I think that's 368 00:18:11.505 --> 00:18:14.785 a little bit what we're closer to is, like, very specific 369 00:18:14.785 --> 00:18:18.350 digital needs put into something at large scale. So rather than 370 00:18:18.430 --> 00:18:20.350 your wall should be a screen that could do everything every 371 00:18:20.350 --> 00:18:22.750 other screen can do, your wall should have a little bit of 372 00:18:22.750 --> 00:18:25.710 digital component that alters the pigment at will. 373 00:18:25.710 --> 00:18:25.950 It's a 374 00:18:25.950 --> 00:18:29.630 hue light. Yeah. I mean, that's why everyone has 375 00:18:29.630 --> 00:18:32.235 those. Yeah. The, like, sunset lamps. 376 00:18:32.235 --> 00:18:33.115 Yeah. I guess. 377 00:18:33.115 --> 00:18:36.155 It is interesting though how, like, a lot of this 378 00:18:36.155 --> 00:18:39.755 particular type of, like, technology of, a screen that 379 00:18:39.755 --> 00:18:43.835 looks like you're in the mountains is just, like, why not 380 00:18:43.835 --> 00:18:46.540 just go to the mountains? And it just speaks to, like, how we're 381 00:18:46.540 --> 00:18:47.820 stuck in an office. Yeah. 382 00:18:47.820 --> 00:18:50.380 Mhmm. Well, I think that most of the future is set 383 00:18:50.380 --> 00:18:53.580 forward where you have like the, you know, the rich guy in his 384 00:18:53.580 --> 00:18:56.860 office that's in the picture of the mountains. It seems like the 385 00:18:56.860 --> 00:18:59.405 assumption being made is that there almost aren't any 386 00:18:59.405 --> 00:19:03.005 mountains left or impossible to be there. And so his grand 387 00:19:03.005 --> 00:19:06.045 luxury is he gets to pretend better than you can, that he's 388 00:19:06.045 --> 00:19:07.885 in a place you can no longer really get. 389 00:19:07.885 --> 00:19:08.525 Yeah. 390 00:19:08.525 --> 00:19:11.565 Okay. With that, we are gonna take a quick break, and we 391 00:19:11.565 --> 00:19:12.445 will be right back. 392 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:24.560 So the way I was approaching this question was 393 00:19:24.560 --> 00:19:29.795 less, what I expected to exist and what I hoped would exist. 394 00:19:29.795 --> 00:19:32.595 And there is a difference there, which is that it's less 395 00:19:32.595 --> 00:19:33.635 realistic. 396 00:19:33.795 --> 00:19:34.515 Okay. 397 00:19:34.995 --> 00:19:37.235 And I need you all to understand that. 398 00:19:37.395 --> 00:19:38.275 Follow your heart. 399 00:19:38.275 --> 00:19:40.755 But the first thing I thought of specifically was the 400 00:19:40.755 --> 00:19:43.460 Babelfish. Mhmm. From Hitchhiker's Guide to the 401 00:19:43.460 --> 00:19:44.100 Galaxy. Universal 402 00:19:44.580 --> 00:19:45.620 translator. Yeah. 403 00:19:45.620 --> 00:19:48.020 It's a little gross. I don't know that I'd want it to 404 00:19:48.020 --> 00:19:51.540 literally be this. But if people are not familiar in Hitchhiker's 405 00:19:51.540 --> 00:19:55.620 Guide to the Galaxy, one of the many fun, weird, little techie 406 00:19:55.620 --> 00:19:58.565 things that our protagonist deals with is something called 407 00:19:58.565 --> 00:20:02.565 the babble fish, which is a little fish that you put in your 408 00:20:02.565 --> 00:20:07.445 ear. It like slithers on into your ear, and it live translates 409 00:20:07.445 --> 00:20:08.565 every language for you. 410 00:20:09.380 --> 00:20:10.020 I love it. 411 00:20:10.020 --> 00:20:13.300 I believe in the book, it is described as the oddest thing 412 00:20:13.300 --> 00:20:14.260 in the universe. 413 00:20:14.260 --> 00:20:19.220 Yes. Yeah. Yes, it is. And I think that is so fabulous 414 00:20:19.220 --> 00:20:22.145 and genius. And I think it's sort of largely understood 415 00:20:22.145 --> 00:20:24.465 throughout the story that kind of everybody has these because 416 00:20:24.465 --> 00:20:25.905 everyone can understand each other. 417 00:20:26.145 --> 00:20:30.625 It's amazing. Do I want a little creepy fish that slithers into 418 00:20:30.625 --> 00:20:35.780 my brain? Not really. But the the concept of that, I think, is 419 00:20:35.780 --> 00:20:36.340 incredible. 420 00:20:36.340 --> 00:20:36.580 You know, 421 00:20:36.580 --> 00:20:36.900 it's odd 422 00:20:36.900 --> 00:20:40.900 to me that you described this as unrealistic, that you 423 00:20:40.900 --> 00:20:43.860 make that proviso. I think we're closer to that than anything 424 00:20:43.860 --> 00:20:44.340 else. 425 00:20:44.340 --> 00:20:45.060 I agree. 426 00:20:45.060 --> 00:20:47.940 With sort of. I think there have you tried to do that 427 00:20:47.940 --> 00:20:50.795 thing that Google has where you speak and then it translates and 428 00:20:50.795 --> 00:20:52.795 you show it to someone? Because it's, you know, 429 00:20:52.795 --> 00:20:56.955 there's Great. Some problems. It's often good and it 430 00:20:56.955 --> 00:20:57.515 exists. 431 00:20:57.515 --> 00:21:01.515 It's pretty okay. I've done it. I use it in Korea when 432 00:21:01.515 --> 00:21:04.380 I was staying in an Airbnb. Yeah. I guess you're right. 433 00:21:04.380 --> 00:21:06.620 Simultaneous interpretation like they have at 434 00:21:06.620 --> 00:21:10.140 The U UN, I think is very, very, very, very close to. 435 00:21:10.220 --> 00:21:14.220 I think we are close to it, but at the same time, we're 436 00:21:14.220 --> 00:21:17.655 battling just like the ever growing movement of making 437 00:21:17.655 --> 00:21:21.335 everything the same and like language colonization and we're 438 00:21:21.335 --> 00:21:25.575 losing languages. And the idea of this fish, it's like, it 439 00:21:25.575 --> 00:21:30.215 wouldn't require the loss of languages. We would just be able 440 00:21:30.215 --> 00:21:34.290 to communicate and it almost like promises a type of reality 441 00:21:34.290 --> 00:21:38.210 where we could live in different cultures but still be one 442 00:21:38.210 --> 00:21:41.250 culture at the same time. Whereas, like, yes, we have that 443 00:21:41.250 --> 00:21:44.930 with translation and transcription apps, but it's 444 00:21:45.605 --> 00:21:46.885 it's just different. 445 00:21:46.885 --> 00:21:48.325 And, well, I think something you're gesturing out 446 00:21:48.325 --> 00:21:50.805 there and something Daniel Jenna Grauss is gesturing at too is 447 00:21:50.805 --> 00:21:54.725 that, like, part of the meaning of language is the meaning of 448 00:21:54.725 --> 00:21:58.165 itself or the meaning that is captured only by its specific 449 00:21:58.165 --> 00:22:02.540 linguistic usage. So a trans will never get that and will 450 00:22:02.540 --> 00:22:05.580 indeed, like, erase parts of it. Sodad should always remain 451 00:22:05.580 --> 00:22:10.220 sodad. And, like, do you put your relative Babelfish's, like, 452 00:22:10.220 --> 00:22:13.340 the language the words that come across without translation or 453 00:22:13.340 --> 00:22:14.915 that need to in some way. 454 00:22:14.995 --> 00:22:16.355 I think there's an interesting parallel between 455 00:22:16.355 --> 00:22:19.475 this and the and and the nomination of, food replicators. 456 00:22:19.475 --> 00:22:22.355 Right? Because food replicators let you isolate and get one 457 00:22:22.355 --> 00:22:25.475 really specific thing over and over, and it's not dependent on, 458 00:22:25.890 --> 00:22:27.970 oh, I only have these ingredients, so I'll sub them 459 00:22:27.970 --> 00:22:30.770 out, or, oh, I actually live near this grocery store, which 460 00:22:30.770 --> 00:22:33.490 has this thing, and then that's how, like, recipes and food 461 00:22:33.490 --> 00:22:37.810 evolve is by mixing and mingling components. If you can isolate 462 00:22:37.810 --> 00:22:40.130 all the components and you never have to touch, those things will 463 00:22:40.130 --> 00:22:44.295 never touch, then what happens? Yeah. 464 00:22:44.295 --> 00:22:47.175 The process is the point is what people are saying in in in the 465 00:22:47.175 --> 00:22:50.455 friction, is what's being said in in chat. 466 00:22:50.455 --> 00:22:53.415 Danielle Jenna Grouse also makes a very interesting 467 00:22:53.415 --> 00:22:56.210 point here saying, it's once again removing the friction we 468 00:22:56.210 --> 00:22:59.730 find annoying dealing with, but which might be where meaning is 469 00:22:59.730 --> 00:23:03.490 produced. Which I think is kind of the the thing to contend with 470 00:23:03.490 --> 00:23:07.250 with all of these ideas. I think with something like the 471 00:23:07.250 --> 00:23:12.795 Babelfish, I'm curious kind of where that friction is making 472 00:23:12.795 --> 00:23:15.675 meaning and where that friction is so insurmountable that it 473 00:23:15.675 --> 00:23:19.675 just is like a brick wall. Like knowing every single language in 474 00:23:19.675 --> 00:23:22.955 the world, for example, versus learning Spanish. 475 00:23:23.350 --> 00:23:24.710 It's not knowing. 476 00:23:25.030 --> 00:23:25.350 Right. 477 00:23:25.350 --> 00:23:27.030 It's understanding every language in world. 478 00:23:27.030 --> 00:23:29.830 Well, sure. But like, this is what I mean is that 479 00:23:29.830 --> 00:23:34.390 there's like, I I'm curious about tech like this in movies 480 00:23:34.390 --> 00:23:39.395 and TV that is supposed to paint with this a massive brush. Being 481 00:23:39.395 --> 00:23:43.475 like, you can do this with every single language immediately, 482 00:23:44.115 --> 00:23:44.675 perfectly. 483 00:23:44.675 --> 00:23:46.435 I think what's interesting about drawing it from science 484 00:23:46.435 --> 00:23:49.395 fiction is that it actually is solving a different problem. 485 00:23:49.555 --> 00:23:52.540 What it's solving in science fiction is how can we make every 486 00:23:52.540 --> 00:23:56.460 alien race with just regular English speaking actors legible? 487 00:23:56.460 --> 00:23:58.380 Yeah. Oh, sure. Yeah. Of course. We have to have this 488 00:23:58.380 --> 00:23:59.500 thing happen. 489 00:23:59.500 --> 00:23:59.740 Like 490 00:23:59.980 --> 00:24:02.300 That's what it's actually trying to solve. And so anything 491 00:24:02.300 --> 00:24:05.340 that comes anything that comes downstream from that is our, 492 00:24:05.340 --> 00:24:08.295 like, lumping meaning or anticipation onto that. 493 00:24:08.295 --> 00:24:12.055 Right. I think I think both we in the call and we as, 494 00:24:12.055 --> 00:24:15.175 like, a culture, like a society over the last maybe fifty years 495 00:24:15.175 --> 00:24:17.975 or so, have a hard time thinking about and looking at some of 496 00:24:17.975 --> 00:24:21.980 this technology outside of our own context, especially right 497 00:24:21.980 --> 00:24:25.020 now. And what I mean by especially right now is, like, 498 00:24:25.020 --> 00:24:28.940 we are just learning, like, in this moment to refuse 499 00:24:28.940 --> 00:24:30.540 convenience. Mhmm. Yes. 500 00:24:30.540 --> 00:24:34.380 There there is a lot to be gained by refusing the 501 00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:38.495 convenience that is foisted upon us by often people who profit 502 00:24:38.495 --> 00:24:41.375 from that convenience. They want us to want it so that we give 503 00:24:41.375 --> 00:24:43.855 them money so that we get it. And I think the thing that's 504 00:24:43.855 --> 00:24:48.095 important about the matter, the matter replicator, the 505 00:24:48.095 --> 00:24:50.735 BabelFish, whatever, whatever, like, the BabelFish doesn't come 506 00:24:50.735 --> 00:24:53.510 to your house and put its fingers up your nose and pull 507 00:24:53.510 --> 00:24:56.070 you across the room anytime you try to sit down and learn 508 00:24:56.070 --> 00:24:58.790 Japanese. It just helps you translate things. Yeah. 509 00:24:58.790 --> 00:25:02.630 It's not removing your agency for learning. It's just giving 510 00:25:02.630 --> 00:25:05.350 you an opportunity to not have to learn a language in a 511 00:25:05.350 --> 00:25:09.935 specific point. We, in theory, a user would retain the agency to 512 00:25:09.935 --> 00:25:14.335 continue to learn a language the old fashioned way. But I think 513 00:25:14.335 --> 00:25:17.535 it's hard for us in this moment because we do not yet have the 514 00:25:17.535 --> 00:25:22.300 personal and cultural skills to say, but I to be confident in 515 00:25:22.300 --> 00:25:25.740 saying, but I would refuse the convenience when it was right 516 00:25:25.740 --> 00:25:26.460 to. Yeah. 517 00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:29.580 As an optimist, maybe you would say in the presence of the 518 00:25:29.580 --> 00:25:32.780 existence of this technology, we would be able to learn how to 519 00:25:32.780 --> 00:25:35.535 have that muscle. As a pessimist, you might say, well, 520 00:25:35.535 --> 00:25:39.215 it would just destroy, you know, the uniqueness of culture. 521 00:25:39.935 --> 00:25:45.135 That reminds me. One of my favorite sci fi books as a 522 00:25:45.135 --> 00:25:48.480 kid was The Uglies. Okay. The movie's horrible. 523 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:49.440 My god. 524 00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:53.840 I really liked it because in this universe, have 525 00:25:53.840 --> 00:25:56.960 the ability to become beautiful. Everyone can go through a 526 00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.080 process where they become beautiful, what have you. But as 527 00:26:00.080 --> 00:26:05.385 you read the series, there's resistance movement, where they 528 00:26:05.385 --> 00:26:10.665 cut up their face to have their genetics like come back. And how 529 00:26:10.665 --> 00:26:14.460 like, the convenience or the option to be beautiful actually 530 00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:18.060 Yeah. Takes away, you know, who you are as an individual. 531 00:26:18.460 --> 00:26:22.060 This convenience or this option to be better is actually quite 532 00:26:22.060 --> 00:26:22.860 horrible. 533 00:26:23.100 --> 00:26:26.300 I think the limit of a lot of this tech is that, again, 534 00:26:26.300 --> 00:26:29.615 Mike, to your point, we should have some friction in our lives. 535 00:26:29.855 --> 00:26:32.495 Like, we should still want to prioritize that. It should not 536 00:26:32.495 --> 00:26:34.735 be something we just use ubiquitously. 537 00:26:34.735 --> 00:26:36.815 Yeah. I I really agree with this because I've been 538 00:26:36.815 --> 00:26:39.455 thinking about convenience a lot as being one of the one of the, 539 00:26:39.455 --> 00:26:43.920 like, principal insidious things that is happening to us recently 540 00:26:44.080 --> 00:26:47.840 and thinking about that on a binary with curiosity. And how 541 00:26:47.840 --> 00:26:52.240 do you have convenience without letting it remove curiosity, I 542 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:54.960 think, is a thing we to Mike's point, don't know how to manage 543 00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:55.120 it. 544 00:26:55.120 --> 00:26:56.240 We're figuring it out. Think 545 00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:59.335 Yeah. We're figuring it out. But I think, yeah, for me, 546 00:26:59.335 --> 00:27:01.415 it's you you saying that, Mike, helps me realize that, like, I 547 00:27:01.415 --> 00:27:04.295 don't trust it yet. I don't trust myself to have convenience 548 00:27:04.375 --> 00:27:06.375 and not abandon curiosity. 549 00:27:06.375 --> 00:27:08.775 You should be from the Northeast. We're really good at 550 00:27:08.775 --> 00:27:10.855 just looking at something that makes our lives easier and 551 00:27:10.855 --> 00:27:16.160 going, no. Thank you. I will choose to labor more and have a 552 00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:16.640 bad time. 553 00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:19.200 Deeply concerned without that friction ever present, I 554 00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:20.720 won't know why anymore. 555 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:24.400 Gadovoir asked, do have a sci fi want for your youth that 556 00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:26.240 is not about more convenience? 557 00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:29.095 Oh. Yes. Okay. See? Oh, good question. 558 00:27:29.095 --> 00:27:31.975 So much of the sort of theorizing of these things is 559 00:27:31.975 --> 00:27:34.615 about what makes life easier. 560 00:27:34.775 --> 00:27:37.495 I mean, someone else in the chat, it has long since 561 00:27:37.495 --> 00:27:42.580 passed. I'm so sorry. But saying that, you know, sometimes we, as 562 00:27:42.580 --> 00:27:46.100 people, choose the less convenient option and an example 563 00:27:46.100 --> 00:27:50.100 of that being that we refuse mass transit and drive cars. 564 00:27:50.260 --> 00:27:52.420 There's so many shades of gray with this. 565 00:27:52.740 --> 00:27:55.780 I think the convenience of not having to see strangers 566 00:27:55.845 --> 00:27:58.645 beats the convenience of getting there sooner and easier. 567 00:27:58.645 --> 00:27:59.285 Yeah. Yeah. 568 00:27:59.285 --> 00:28:00.725 It's a different kind of convenience. 569 00:28:00.725 --> 00:28:03.925 Yeah. At the risk of opening a can of worms, crisp 570 00:28:03.925 --> 00:28:08.085 cracking sound, and then from the can issues forth a whisper 571 00:28:08.085 --> 00:28:10.860 that goes, Ronald Reagan. Yeah. 572 00:28:14.860 --> 00:28:16.620 Down the stream. He's here. He's here. 573 00:28:18.140 --> 00:28:21.180 In America specifically, it's like from Ronald Reagan 574 00:28:21.180 --> 00:28:24.575 forward like, it was already really bad. But from Ronald 575 00:28:24.575 --> 00:28:28.095 Reagan forward, individualism has just become virulent. 576 00:28:28.095 --> 00:28:28.575 Oh, yeah. 577 00:28:28.575 --> 00:28:32.815 It is, like, pathological to a degree that will be, I 578 00:28:32.815 --> 00:28:36.975 think, impossible to extract from American society in Return. 579 00:28:37.135 --> 00:28:40.220 The next six or seven generations on top of the fact 580 00:28:40.220 --> 00:28:43.580 that America is built for cars. Literally, like, the 581 00:28:43.580 --> 00:28:47.980 infrastructure is made for cars and not people. Like, New York 582 00:28:47.980 --> 00:28:51.020 City is one of the most pedestrian friendly places in 583 00:28:51.020 --> 00:28:53.855 the entirety of The United States, and I still almost get 584 00:28:53.855 --> 00:28:57.215 killed on the walk to the studio multiple times a week by a car. 585 00:28:57.215 --> 00:29:00.095 Yeah. I mean, so so that people live in their cars. 586 00:29:00.255 --> 00:29:03.375 Yeah. Oh my god. So, like, I I think that's the other part 587 00:29:03.375 --> 00:29:08.200 of it is that it's like, there's a real top down kind of power 588 00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:14.360 structure, that both builds the natural environment to force us 589 00:29:14.360 --> 00:29:18.760 into certain things that we then see as convenient. One, because 590 00:29:18.760 --> 00:29:22.255 kind of they are, and two, because we kinda can't see them 591 00:29:22.255 --> 00:29:26.255 any other way, and there's no social pressure to be like, hey. 592 00:29:26.255 --> 00:29:28.735 We should all work together to make things better for 593 00:29:28.735 --> 00:29:29.295 everybody. 594 00:29:29.295 --> 00:29:32.950 It's like, no. My car has air conditioning. And, yeah, I don't 595 00:29:32.950 --> 00:29:34.470 I don't have to see a poor person. 596 00:29:34.470 --> 00:29:37.350 Mhmm. Anyone who says, like, if they talk about why 597 00:29:37.350 --> 00:29:40.310 they don't like public transit is always because they don't 598 00:29:40.310 --> 00:29:44.310 like to see unhoused people. And it's like, okay. Great. Yeah. 599 00:29:44.390 --> 00:29:47.115 That's a problem we can solve. Yeah. Let's just not 600 00:29:47.195 --> 00:29:51.035 let's not build a bomb for one second. But we like for one 601 00:29:51.035 --> 00:29:52.795 second, and we can solve that problem too. 602 00:29:52.795 --> 00:29:55.675 I believe in New York, a lot of the highways were built 603 00:29:55.675 --> 00:29:58.315 over poor neighborhoods, you don't have to see it. 604 00:29:58.315 --> 00:30:00.635 Either over them or directly through them if they 605 00:30:00.635 --> 00:30:01.835 were getting too rich. 606 00:30:01.835 --> 00:30:05.730 Through them. Yes. Yeah. Bisecting them to cut the 607 00:30:05.730 --> 00:30:07.250 economic district in half. 608 00:30:07.250 --> 00:30:07.810 Yes. Yes. 609 00:30:07.810 --> 00:30:12.370 Yeah. Which the DOT now is trying to undo, and all of the 610 00:30:12.370 --> 00:30:14.690 people who drive on those highways are like, but my 611 00:30:14.690 --> 00:30:15.970 highway. Oh 612 00:30:15.970 --> 00:30:17.490 my god. My beautiful highway. 613 00:30:18.105 --> 00:30:21.145 Anyways, okay. I sorry to rant at all of you. It drives me 614 00:30:21.145 --> 00:30:21.545 insane. 615 00:30:21.545 --> 00:30:25.225 Before we move on, per our international folks in the chat, 616 00:30:25.225 --> 00:30:29.545 I need to relay an audio another can. Look what I've got here. 617 00:30:29.625 --> 00:30:30.265 Full of worms. 618 00:30:31.420 --> 00:30:32.300 I know. 619 00:30:34.940 --> 00:30:37.900 Thatcher. Margaret Thatcher. A bit 620 00:30:37.900 --> 00:30:38.300 of good. 621 00:30:38.300 --> 00:30:39.340 So there you go, chat. 622 00:30:39.340 --> 00:30:40.780 Big pro Irish 623 00:30:40.860 --> 00:30:44.060 Chat requesting worms. Worms. 624 00:30:46.185 --> 00:30:50.265 I want this is sort of a shift. But there's been this 625 00:30:50.265 --> 00:30:54.025 very interesting conversation in the chat that started with 626 00:30:54.025 --> 00:30:57.385 beauty tech, and especially in Fifth Element and like Total 627 00:30:57.385 --> 00:31:00.185 Recall where I think someone was mentioning the secretary that 628 00:31:00.185 --> 00:31:04.760 could change the color of her nails with a little pen as kind 629 00:31:04.760 --> 00:31:09.480 of an example. Isn't that amazing? I think the nail change 630 00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:13.800 and stuff like that is in a way supposed to also create an 631 00:31:13.800 --> 00:31:18.755 efficiency to shorten of doing something. But then what has 632 00:31:18.755 --> 00:31:22.115 happened in the chat is now a conversation about body mods 633 00:31:22.275 --> 00:31:22.675 Mhmm. 634 00:31:22.755 --> 00:31:28.730 And tattooing specifically as a body mod and as technological 635 00:31:28.730 --> 00:31:30.970 advancement because now, obviously, most people are 636 00:31:30.970 --> 00:31:35.690 getting tattooed with guns instead of like a big long stick 637 00:31:35.690 --> 00:31:39.530 that someone's hammering. Though if you get, for example, 638 00:31:39.530 --> 00:31:42.825 traditional Japanese tattooing, that may still happen and there 639 00:31:42.825 --> 00:31:45.225 are a lot of cultures that obviously still use traditional 640 00:31:45.225 --> 00:31:48.345 tattooing methods. But I think that's an interesting 641 00:31:48.585 --> 00:31:53.945 technological advancement that isn't making anything more 642 00:31:53.945 --> 00:31:57.690 efficient or anything, like, it's it's purely for the self. 643 00:31:57.690 --> 00:32:01.050 Mhmm. But I am I'm like, okay, well, what would like the sci fi 644 00:32:01.050 --> 00:32:02.570 movie version of this be? 645 00:32:02.570 --> 00:32:06.490 To me, it would still kind of fall into that like efficiency 646 00:32:07.050 --> 00:32:10.835 model of like, okay, well, a sci fi thing would be getting 647 00:32:10.835 --> 00:32:13.155 tattoos that can move or that you can change. 648 00:32:13.235 --> 00:32:16.115 That reminds me of just like how I I really thought that 649 00:32:16.115 --> 00:32:20.675 we would come a lot further with accessibility like like limbs 650 00:32:20.675 --> 00:32:22.755 and Yeah. Yeah. Robot arms 651 00:32:22.755 --> 00:32:23.795 and legs. But 652 00:32:24.440 --> 00:32:26.600 Yeah. We got bored. 653 00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:29.480 So this is we got I don't know if we wanna transition to 654 00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:32.840 this right now, but, like, David Graeber wrote a piece a while 655 00:32:32.840 --> 00:32:37.405 ago about basically, like, why didn't we get flying cars? Like, 656 00:32:37.405 --> 00:32:41.645 David Graber was 40 at the turn of the millennium in February. 657 00:32:41.885 --> 00:32:45.885 And he was like, when I was a kid, I was promised flying cars. 658 00:32:46.045 --> 00:32:49.340 Like, in the fifties, like, I watched the moon landing, and it 659 00:32:49.340 --> 00:32:52.220 was clear to us as a culture that we were going to get flying 660 00:32:52.220 --> 00:32:56.140 cars amongst other things that were, like, already well 661 00:32:56.140 --> 00:33:00.540 underway. The promise of genetic science as well that seems to 662 00:33:00.540 --> 00:33:05.175 have basically, like, if not stalled, then just, like, slowed 663 00:33:05.175 --> 00:33:08.135 down based upon where it was in the mid century. 664 00:33:08.455 --> 00:33:10.855 And, you know, he asks a bunch of really good questions 665 00:33:10.855 --> 00:33:12.935 throughout the whole piece. You can read it in the Baffler. 666 00:33:12.935 --> 00:33:16.800 What's it called? I think it's called of flying cars. Of the 667 00:33:16.800 --> 00:33:18.400 things that he asked is like, well, if we don't get it, like, 668 00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:20.160 where you know, we had all these resources. 669 00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:24.080 Where did all the resources go? Bombs. Yeah. Yeah. Bombs. 670 00:33:24.080 --> 00:33:26.720 Bombs. They just went it went to it went to bombs. 671 00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:30.400 I I full on expect corollary to that is I full on 672 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:33.895 expected, like, the the the atomic panic of the fifties of, 673 00:33:33.895 --> 00:33:38.215 like, mutations and genetic shifts and all of that, like 674 00:33:38.215 --> 00:33:41.975 extra tentacles or monstrous things. I don't know if I 675 00:33:41.975 --> 00:33:44.055 expected it, but, like, that's a whole other vein. 676 00:33:44.055 --> 00:33:47.180 Like cloning and, like, let me put a tail. 677 00:33:47.340 --> 00:33:50.940 Yeah. What's kind of weird about something like 678 00:33:50.940 --> 00:33:54.380 cloning like the fears around that is that there has been 679 00:33:54.940 --> 00:33:56.460 actual stuff happening. 680 00:33:56.620 --> 00:33:57.420 Streisand? 681 00:33:57.580 --> 00:34:01.765 Yes. Barbara Streisand. She she cloned her dogs. 682 00:34:01.765 --> 00:34:04.725 Famously did not did not want her dog to die and so made 683 00:34:04.725 --> 00:34:05.445 clones of it. 684 00:34:05.445 --> 00:34:08.085 But the what I bring this up because in the same way 685 00:34:08.085 --> 00:34:11.925 that, you know, the the moment I think last year, right, when the 686 00:34:11.925 --> 00:34:15.500 FBI was like, aliens are real. And everyone was like, dude, 687 00:34:15.500 --> 00:34:18.620 whatever. I have so much else going on. Yeah. 688 00:34:18.940 --> 00:34:19.820 The air force. 689 00:34:19.820 --> 00:34:20.220 Yeah. 690 00:34:20.220 --> 00:34:23.260 We're like some I'm on the phone with insurance. Yeah. 691 00:34:23.500 --> 00:34:26.540 I feel like some of this tech that does end up happening like 692 00:34:26.540 --> 00:34:29.875 Barbara Streisand cloning her dogs, people are like, alright. 693 00:34:29.875 --> 00:34:31.635 Anyway, like, what? I mean, 694 00:34:31.635 --> 00:34:33.715 it's very, like, Katy Perry going to 695 00:34:33.875 --> 00:34:35.875 To spay oh my god, with her flower. 696 00:34:36.355 --> 00:34:38.915 The thing I think that's happened is we kept like, we had 697 00:34:38.915 --> 00:34:41.395 this fear of, like, oh, we're gonna grow extra limbs or, 698 00:34:41.395 --> 00:34:44.880 people are gonna get mutated into something or, know, merge 699 00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:47.680 with plants or all these exciting imaginative things, and 700 00:34:47.680 --> 00:34:50.320 it all just turned out to be cancer. Just cancer across the 701 00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:50.640 board. 702 00:34:50.640 --> 00:34:51.360 Oh, boy. 703 00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:53.760 Yeah. It really was. Yeah. Everything just came 704 00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:54.560 cancer. And I 705 00:34:54.560 --> 00:34:56.745 just like, one disappointment after. Do you you 706 00:34:56.745 --> 00:34:59.385 remember, like, three, four months ago in that somebody put 707 00:34:59.385 --> 00:35:03.465 into the chat, oh, they did definitive studies about e EMF. 708 00:35:03.465 --> 00:35:05.465 Is that right? From phones 709 00:35:05.225 --> 00:35:06.345 Oh, like five g? 710 00:35:06.345 --> 00:35:11.750 Are they bad for us? Yeah. And and the verdict was neutral. 711 00:35:11.750 --> 00:35:13.190 Does nothing. Does absolutely nothing. 712 00:35:13.190 --> 00:35:16.470 And universally, we all were like, I was kinda hoping for 713 00:35:16.630 --> 00:35:17.830 wild mutations. 714 00:35:17.830 --> 00:35:20.150 I was kinda kinda hoping for X-ray. 715 00:35:20.150 --> 00:35:21.830 Well, because, you know, because everybody lost their 716 00:35:21.830 --> 00:35:24.785 minds, and they're they're on the Internet too much and read 717 00:35:24.785 --> 00:35:28.545 too many things about how five g gives you Brain worms. Brain 718 00:35:28.545 --> 00:35:31.505 something. Yeah. Yeah. All the scientists did exactly what 719 00:35:31.505 --> 00:35:32.465 scientists do. 720 00:35:32.545 --> 00:35:34.545 Do you think they would learn their lesson by now? And they're 721 00:35:34.545 --> 00:35:41.000 like, we exposed something like brain tissue to 10,000 times 722 00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:45.800 more five g signal than anybody would ever experience, and we 723 00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:48.920 see no reason to believe there will be adverse effects. And 724 00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:51.480 what everybody heard was, so you're saying there's a chance? 725 00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:51.640 Yeah. 726 00:35:53.865 --> 00:35:57.385 This is why I like the work of Samuel Delaney a lot 727 00:35:57.385 --> 00:36:01.385 because he goes sort of both routes. He goes, like Oh, yeah. 728 00:36:01.385 --> 00:36:04.985 Like body mods as, like, tissue modification and as, like, the 729 00:36:04.985 --> 00:36:08.390 result of exposure to the bizarre world around us and, 730 00:36:08.390 --> 00:36:10.150 like, technological advancement. 731 00:36:10.150 --> 00:36:11.110 Oh. Wet. 732 00:36:11.110 --> 00:36:12.710 Yeah. Wet. Future but wet. 733 00:36:12.710 --> 00:36:13.750 Future but wet. 734 00:36:14.070 --> 00:36:15.750 What who is this boy? Say the name again. 735 00:36:15.750 --> 00:36:16.630 Stereo Delaney. 736 00:36:16.630 --> 00:36:17.830 K. That's not someone I know. 737 00:36:17.830 --> 00:36:18.950 Hans. Nice. 738 00:36:19.270 --> 00:36:20.230 Give us the t l 739 00:36:20.230 --> 00:36:20.470 d r. 740 00:36:20.470 --> 00:36:20.630 This is 741 00:36:20.630 --> 00:36:21.590 very fun. 742 00:36:21.590 --> 00:36:27.145 What's his deal? Give me the the sparkling Wet. Okay. 743 00:36:27.865 --> 00:36:28.905 No further questions. 744 00:36:39.870 --> 00:36:45.150 So one of my favorite shows as a child was Totally 745 00:36:45.150 --> 00:36:47.790 Spies. Yes. It is so 746 00:36:47.790 --> 00:36:49.950 good. I'm gonna have to look this up. I was probably too 747 00:36:49.950 --> 00:36:52.110 young for this is what I'm assuming why I don't remember 748 00:36:52.110 --> 00:36:52.270 it. 749 00:36:52.565 --> 00:36:53.365 Definitely. Too 750 00:36:53.365 --> 00:36:54.405 old for it. 751 00:36:54.405 --> 00:36:57.845 Too old? I'm What's that now? I think I'm hearing 752 00:36:57.845 --> 00:36:58.325 too old. 753 00:36:58.325 --> 00:36:59.685 Do you guys Jason's 24. 754 00:36:59.685 --> 00:37:02.165 Oh, My parents probably wouldn't let me watch this. It 755 00:37:02.165 --> 00:37:04.645 was too too scary for me because I was so young. 756 00:37:04.805 --> 00:37:06.965 Yeah. Jason just got his braces taken out. 757 00:37:08.600 --> 00:37:12.120 Totally Spies is a show about three women who were 758 00:37:12.120 --> 00:37:16.040 spies. It's very like Charlie's Angels, but animated, like 759 00:37:16.040 --> 00:37:19.720 Powerpuff Girls, but Like a little more realistic. 760 00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:21.720 Should I explain Powerpuff Girls to Hans and 761 00:37:21.720 --> 00:37:21.960 Mike? 762 00:37:22.985 --> 00:37:25.545 Let me let me step in there, Jason. 763 00:37:26.905 --> 00:37:29.625 But specifically, I think one of the most notable 764 00:37:29.625 --> 00:37:32.985 pieces of tech in the show was their pink compact, and it 765 00:37:32.985 --> 00:37:36.910 looked like a makeup compact, but it was like a it's kinda 766 00:37:36.910 --> 00:37:39.310 like a phone with like, you know, video calling feature 767 00:37:39.310 --> 00:37:43.550 where they can, I'm forgetting the main guy that their like 768 00:37:43.550 --> 00:37:45.470 boss who would tell them about missions. 769 00:37:45.470 --> 00:37:46.110 They're truly Basically. 770 00:37:47.870 --> 00:37:50.925 With him. But the compact could do a lot of things 771 00:37:50.925 --> 00:37:52.765 like Jerry. Yes. Yes. Jerry. 772 00:37:52.765 --> 00:37:57.005 It could analyze material. It's interesting because it is very 773 00:37:57.005 --> 00:38:00.605 similar to a phone. Like a lot of the things that it can do is 774 00:38:00.605 --> 00:38:03.550 what we can do on a phone now. But what I love about, I was 775 00:38:03.550 --> 00:38:06.030 thinking like, why do I still want this even though I have a 776 00:38:06.030 --> 00:38:10.670 phone, is how it looks. So much of the technology in Totally 777 00:38:10.670 --> 00:38:16.510 Spies was extremely girly and extremely feminine and it wasn't 778 00:38:16.670 --> 00:38:19.415 it didn't look like a black box, you know? 779 00:38:19.415 --> 00:38:22.935 And that was part of the technology and why I wanted it. 780 00:38:22.935 --> 00:38:28.615 It was tactile and it was like pink and shiny and purple and 781 00:38:28.615 --> 00:38:32.870 has flowers. But totally size. Let's see. 782 00:38:33.430 --> 00:38:37.750 Was the time of the the pink razor and, like, bedazzling 783 00:38:37.750 --> 00:38:41.270 your flip phone, at least when we were in middle school. 784 00:38:41.270 --> 00:38:42.230 Jason wasn't born yet. 785 00:38:42.225 --> 00:38:45.825 Jason wasn't alive yet. So Jason, a flip phone. 786 00:38:45.825 --> 00:38:46.625 Yes, too. 787 00:38:50.625 --> 00:38:55.520 But I I have to, like, you talking about this has 788 00:38:55.520 --> 00:38:59.200 reminded me of another thing very similar that is also girly, 789 00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:02.560 that is also gorgeous. That's actually from a pretty recent 790 00:39:02.560 --> 00:39:08.160 movie and not a sci fi one at all. It is the Shell e reader 791 00:39:08.240 --> 00:39:13.705 from It Follows. I'm gonna put it in the chat. It's incredible. 792 00:39:16.345 --> 00:39:20.905 I hear you. There's like no reason That is 793 00:39:20.905 --> 00:39:21.785 so so serious. 794 00:39:21.785 --> 00:39:22.825 Why it needed to exist. 795 00:39:23.030 --> 00:39:25.350 Could someone describe this for the podcast listeners 796 00:39:25.350 --> 00:39:25.910 later? 797 00:39:25.990 --> 00:39:29.350 So the shell e reader, it's in the horror movie It 798 00:39:29.350 --> 00:39:34.470 Follows. Imagine also a compact. So you just flip it open. It's 799 00:39:34.470 --> 00:39:36.950 baby pink. It looks like a shell. 800 00:39:37.510 --> 00:39:43.975 And both sides of the compact are screens. And she can page 801 00:39:43.975 --> 00:39:47.255 through, like, scroll through from the bottom circle of the 802 00:39:47.255 --> 00:39:51.735 compact and is reading a book that the screens of which sort 803 00:39:51.735 --> 00:39:56.030 of bleed into each other like an e reader. But it's just this 804 00:39:56.030 --> 00:39:59.390 little shell, and it's probably frankly, would probably be very 805 00:39:59.390 --> 00:40:00.430 difficult to read on. 806 00:40:00.430 --> 00:40:03.550 Yeah. Like as I'm looking at this, this seems like 807 00:40:03.550 --> 00:40:06.110 something that is way cooler than its utility. 808 00:40:06.110 --> 00:40:10.325 Oh, I'm sure this would probably be a UX nightmare. But 809 00:40:10.565 --> 00:40:14.485 to your point, Meckel, it has this similar quality of very 810 00:40:14.485 --> 00:40:19.045 very femme and an interesting shape that sure is maybe not 811 00:40:19.045 --> 00:40:23.680 like the most realistic shape. But it yeah. It has this 812 00:40:23.680 --> 00:40:27.760 beautiful still kind of tactile quality despite I mean, the 813 00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:30.960 Totally Spies compact is also screens. Yeah. 814 00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:35.965 Oh, my god. What okay. Just reading this aloud. From Daniel 815 00:40:35.965 --> 00:40:39.885 Jenna Grouse. What if we lived in a world not designed by 816 00:40:39.885 --> 00:40:43.085 several men who misunderstood the point of Bauhaus? 817 00:40:43.565 --> 00:40:47.085 We are here to imagine that very world. 818 00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:50.600 Like, one of the most, I think, maybe optimistic things 819 00:40:50.600 --> 00:40:54.680 about so much of the technology that's depicted in forward 820 00:40:54.680 --> 00:40:59.880 looking fiction from the past is that it would either be tailored 821 00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:02.280 to the individual person that was using it in some way or 822 00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:06.305 reflect their style in some, like, meaningful way, or it 823 00:41:06.305 --> 00:41:11.985 would more meaningfully evoke the body. I think that was the, 824 00:41:11.985 --> 00:41:15.825 like as we were coming out of the mid century where everything 825 00:41:15.825 --> 00:41:19.700 had corners and we were getting into the end of the century, 826 00:41:20.100 --> 00:41:24.900 there was both a sort of, like, design idea and, industrial 827 00:41:24.900 --> 00:41:28.340 design and construction capability of making things with 828 00:41:28.340 --> 00:41:31.935 curves. So And people were like, woah. Like, what if technology 829 00:41:32.015 --> 00:41:35.295 looked a little bit more biological Mhmm. Which, like, we 830 00:41:35.295 --> 00:41:37.295 can do now and is different. 831 00:41:37.375 --> 00:41:40.175 But then we just went back to yeah. Then we just went back to 832 00:41:40.175 --> 00:41:40.735 Johnny Odds. 833 00:41:40.735 --> 00:41:44.095 Yeah. We had that beautiful moment where the iMac, 834 00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:49.520 like all the the colors of the iMac, the sort of clear trend of 835 00:41:49.520 --> 00:41:52.560 having clear plastic, so that you could see the inside of the 836 00:41:52.560 --> 00:41:58.560 technology. Even like the beaut I think beautiful clear purple 837 00:41:59.315 --> 00:42:04.115 Game Boy. Oh, yeah. And then, yeah, like the iMac laptops that 838 00:42:04.115 --> 00:42:07.635 were all different colors and very, like, rounded at the 839 00:42:07.635 --> 00:42:08.275 edges. 840 00:42:08.595 --> 00:42:11.330 I think probably what happened is that like like 841 00:42:11.330 --> 00:42:13.810 everything else, the people manufacturing those things 842 00:42:13.810 --> 00:42:20.050 realized that that is not so broadly desirable as to be, 843 00:42:20.050 --> 00:42:24.065 like, maximally profitable. So you can't make anything that has 844 00:42:24.065 --> 00:42:26.625 character because not a billion people will buy it. 845 00:42:26.625 --> 00:42:28.145 Speaking of character What 846 00:42:29.985 --> 00:42:32.545 do you have there? I know what it is. 847 00:42:32.545 --> 00:42:33.745 Is this a Polly Pocket? 848 00:42:33.745 --> 00:42:36.225 Someone mentioned the contact was in like a Polly 849 00:42:36.225 --> 00:42:36.545 Pocket. 850 00:42:37.980 --> 00:42:39.020 Oh my god. 851 00:42:39.100 --> 00:42:40.780 And you had that in Yeah. Recent is 852 00:42:40.780 --> 00:42:41.340 so sick. 853 00:42:41.580 --> 00:42:44.300 Clearly, I love nostalgia. This is a Polly 854 00:42:44.300 --> 00:42:47.340 Pocket I had as a kid that I lost and then I bought it on 855 00:42:47.340 --> 00:42:47.740 eBay. 856 00:42:47.740 --> 00:42:48.700 So beautiful. 857 00:42:48.860 --> 00:42:51.885 But like, this was like the like, the texture and the 858 00:42:51.885 --> 00:42:54.045 feel of, like, some of this tech. Right? 859 00:42:54.045 --> 00:42:56.605 I mean, you're opening it like a flower. Like, you're 860 00:42:56.685 --> 00:43:02.125 It's also kind bizarrely o Oke Yes. Okefos. Okefos. Okefos. 861 00:43:02.125 --> 00:43:03.325 I mean, it is like a lotus. 862 00:43:03.325 --> 00:43:07.030 Yeah. Like yeah. It's also, like, maximalist. There's 863 00:43:07.030 --> 00:43:08.150 so much going on in there. 864 00:43:08.150 --> 00:43:10.470 Yeah. But it's like a little flower that is 865 00:43:10.470 --> 00:43:13.910 technically like, I think it's like a swim pool, but you can 866 00:43:13.910 --> 00:43:17.750 like put water or something and I think it will spout out and it 867 00:43:17.750 --> 00:43:23.035 like pop. You can pump it. And it's like a little water slide 868 00:43:23.035 --> 00:43:24.155 thing. Wow. 869 00:43:24.155 --> 00:43:27.835 Definitely a choking hazard for a child is probably why 870 00:43:27.915 --> 00:43:31.515 something like this you can't buy for a kid anymore. Mhmm. 871 00:43:31.515 --> 00:43:35.790 Because it's so tiny. But like a little whirl that you can put in 872 00:43:35.790 --> 00:43:36.270 your pocket. 873 00:43:36.270 --> 00:43:38.190 Yeah. It's a little like a compact that opens like a 874 00:43:38.190 --> 00:43:41.630 flower and four petals full of swim gear that has a pump 875 00:43:41.630 --> 00:43:44.430 through the middle that can pump like a fountain and fill it with 876 00:43:44.430 --> 00:43:46.030 lots of chokeable little things. 877 00:43:46.030 --> 00:43:49.035 Yes. I even I even think I was thinking of this the 878 00:43:49.035 --> 00:43:51.515 other night. Earlier in the day, was also talking about the 879 00:43:51.515 --> 00:43:55.515 Volkswagen Beetle, and it lives inside my heart always, that 880 00:43:55.515 --> 00:43:58.715 car. I think it's a beautiful sweet thing that is very 881 00:43:58.715 --> 00:44:02.260 different than so many other things. But I don't think it has 882 00:44:02.260 --> 00:44:03.460 this feature anymore. 883 00:44:03.860 --> 00:44:08.740 But at least in the February, the Volkswagen Beetle had a 884 00:44:08.740 --> 00:44:13.220 little vial in the dashboard that you could put a flower in. 885 00:44:13.485 --> 00:44:14.765 The flower. That's right. I 886 00:44:14.765 --> 00:44:16.125 remember this. And I think about it all 887 00:44:16.125 --> 00:44:18.125 the Quimsical. 888 00:44:18.125 --> 00:44:21.885 Such a sweet and completely unnecessary feature 889 00:44:22.205 --> 00:44:24.925 might have been more trouble than it was worth. Because 890 00:44:24.925 --> 00:44:31.280 imagine water there, go over a pothole, and then, uh-oh. But I 891 00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:33.280 think we can afford to have that. 892 00:44:33.360 --> 00:44:36.240 It's interesting how we started talking about how all of 893 00:44:36.240 --> 00:44:39.120 our our initial ideas were around convenience. And now 894 00:44:39.120 --> 00:44:41.775 we're just talking about things that are explicitly anti 895 00:44:41.775 --> 00:44:42.575 convenience. 896 00:44:42.575 --> 00:44:47.455 Yeah. Well, it's just absolute decoration. Like the 897 00:44:47.455 --> 00:44:53.215 the I miss decoration. I miss the equivalent of filigree, 898 00:44:53.980 --> 00:44:55.980 basically. Crown molding. 899 00:44:55.980 --> 00:44:56.540 Crown molding. 900 00:44:56.540 --> 00:44:57.820 Give it 901 00:44:57.820 --> 00:44:58.300 to me. In a 902 00:44:58.300 --> 00:45:02.380 white box. Yeah. Yeah. Like, for real. 903 00:45:02.380 --> 00:45:04.860 I had assumed that the future would be giving us more 904 00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:08.315 things and more customizability and more maximalism. Like, I 905 00:45:08.315 --> 00:45:11.595 assumed that my room would look like the center of that O'Keefe 906 00:45:11.595 --> 00:45:16.635 and Polly Pocket universe. I just have fewer things and fewer 907 00:45:16.635 --> 00:45:20.155 options and more white boxes and a singular screen that occupies 908 00:45:20.155 --> 00:45:22.470 my attention rather than a wall of screens. 909 00:45:22.470 --> 00:45:25.190 This is very similar to Hans, the fear that you were 910 00:45:25.190 --> 00:45:28.950 describing of convenience being sort of the the enemy of 911 00:45:28.950 --> 00:45:29.590 curiosity. 912 00:45:29.590 --> 00:45:31.270 That Curiosity. Yeah. 913 00:45:31.350 --> 00:45:33.995 I think we did have that moment and I'm sure part of 914 00:45:33.995 --> 00:45:37.195 this is the nostalgia I have for this kind of technology. But 915 00:45:37.195 --> 00:45:39.995 when cell phones all looked very different and had different 916 00:45:39.995 --> 00:45:42.075 relationships to how they present a keyboard to you 917 00:45:42.315 --> 00:45:42.555 Yeah. 918 00:45:42.555 --> 00:45:45.675 How they flip open, do they spin open, do they push 919 00:45:45.675 --> 00:45:49.530 open, do you flip them open? The way you decorated them was very 920 00:45:49.530 --> 00:45:54.490 specific to you. That there was, I think, and is this desire for 921 00:45:54.490 --> 00:45:57.210 decoration. I want it back. Part of this is also 922 00:45:57.210 --> 00:45:59.690 this is also Kyle Chaeke's point, right, of like Yeah. When 923 00:45:59.690 --> 00:46:06.645 you can see right, Instagram has provided a united idea of what a 924 00:46:06.645 --> 00:46:10.165 living room looks like. Yes. A coffee shop looks like, what a 925 00:46:10.165 --> 00:46:13.685 studio looks like, what a kitchen looks like. And so 926 00:46:13.685 --> 00:46:18.390 that's, like, invaded some portion of our culture such that 927 00:46:18.390 --> 00:46:21.990 it is maybe even like a little bit harder to make things that 928 00:46:21.990 --> 00:46:22.790 are not that way. 929 00:46:22.790 --> 00:46:23.910 This Even if you want them. 930 00:46:23.910 --> 00:46:27.030 Yes. This reminds me. I literally saw this last night. 931 00:46:27.190 --> 00:46:30.070 There's some girl, I believe she lives in New York, who's making 932 00:46:30.070 --> 00:46:32.955 her entire apartment look like the sunken Titanic. 933 00:46:33.515 --> 00:46:34.715 Like so bad. 934 00:46:34.955 --> 00:46:37.195 It's so outrageous. 935 00:46:37.195 --> 00:46:39.515 Let's get her let's get her on the show. Let 936 00:46:39.515 --> 00:46:44.315 to her. And me it's been, like, I saw the finished 937 00:46:43.950 --> 00:46:46.350 product first and then obviously a bunch of videos being like, 938 00:46:46.350 --> 00:46:48.990 have you guys seen this girl who made her apartment like this? 939 00:46:48.990 --> 00:46:52.030 Sure. And then I was getting some older videos of her because 940 00:46:52.030 --> 00:46:57.470 I was watching those. And it was like day 288 of turning my 941 00:46:57.470 --> 00:46:59.310 apartment into the Titan. 942 00:47:00.215 --> 00:47:03.575 There's, I think, also in line this conversation of like, 943 00:47:03.655 --> 00:47:08.535 excellent use of free will to your point again, Hans, of I 944 00:47:08.535 --> 00:47:11.895 think curiosity being very much something you you, in some ways, 945 00:47:11.895 --> 00:47:15.540 have to choose to seek and to even garden. 946 00:47:15.940 --> 00:47:19.540 It almost feels like, being able to use your at least 947 00:47:19.540 --> 00:47:23.540 for me, sometimes I feel burdened by the idea that I have 948 00:47:23.540 --> 00:47:27.460 free will and it becomes difficult to use my free will. 949 00:47:27.460 --> 00:47:30.965 And I like, I'm existing in this like phone convenience, and I'm 950 00:47:30.965 --> 00:47:34.485 just stuck here. That's my own personal issue. Yeah. 951 00:47:34.805 --> 00:47:38.165 But we think that we have now gotten a unified sense of 952 00:47:38.165 --> 00:47:41.125 the future, just like we have a unified sense of a kitchen. 953 00:47:41.125 --> 00:47:43.690 More bombs. More bombs. 954 00:47:43.690 --> 00:47:44.090 What's that? 955 00:47:44.090 --> 00:47:46.490 No fuss. Unified expectation. 956 00:47:46.490 --> 00:47:49.210 Yeah. Like yeah. I mean, I think part of what the part of 957 00:47:49.210 --> 00:47:52.090 what David Graeber talks about in the essay is that it does it 958 00:47:52.090 --> 00:47:54.570 feels a little bit like the future got stolen. 959 00:47:54.570 --> 00:47:55.290 Yes. Yeah. 960 00:47:55.290 --> 00:47:58.325 Like, I think it is it is really hard to feel like there 961 00:47:58.325 --> 00:48:01.205 was a possibility space that felt rather wide, I think, 962 00:48:01.205 --> 00:48:05.205 until, like, the early nineties. And David Graeber seems to agree 963 00:48:05.205 --> 00:48:08.085 that it's like things felt really possible from the fifties 964 00:48:08.085 --> 00:48:10.630 through the eighties. It began then it began to taper off. It 965 00:48:10.630 --> 00:48:14.870 feels now like we have to fix a bunch of stuff we've done wrong 966 00:48:14.870 --> 00:48:18.950 over the last thirty years before we can start to progress. 967 00:48:19.350 --> 00:48:25.485 And that's kinda like muted a sense of idealism for future 968 00:48:25.565 --> 00:48:27.325 because we have to fix the past. 969 00:48:27.325 --> 00:48:27.725 Yeah. 970 00:48:27.725 --> 00:48:30.285 Yeah. I mean, I think there was still like an optimism 971 00:48:30.285 --> 00:48:35.565 in the, like, twenty tens with like hipsters and also just like 972 00:48:35.565 --> 00:48:37.805 a little bit of an optimism around some of the tech 973 00:48:37.805 --> 00:48:41.540 companies. Like, I felt very differently about Google fifteen 974 00:48:42.020 --> 00:48:43.620 years ago than I do now. 975 00:48:43.620 --> 00:48:44.340 Yeah. Same. 976 00:48:44.340 --> 00:48:46.820 And that is why like sometimes I'm like, why am I so 977 00:48:46.820 --> 00:48:50.980 obsessed with nostalgia? And I think it's like that I do feel 978 00:48:50.980 --> 00:48:54.500 like the future was ripped for me so I'm going back to a space 979 00:48:54.695 --> 00:48:55.255 where I had 980 00:48:55.415 --> 00:48:55.575 Yeah. 981 00:48:55.895 --> 00:48:57.815 You know, a little bit of hope, a little bit of 982 00:48:57.815 --> 00:48:59.495 excitement about what was to come. 983 00:48:59.495 --> 00:49:02.775 But I think a similarity in that era of the movement in 984 00:49:02.775 --> 00:49:07.095 tech and the movement of hipsterdom was to reclaim, 985 00:49:07.095 --> 00:49:10.480 readdress the past that Mike is sort of referencing there. The 986 00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:12.960 whole hipster movement was, hey, we're gonna do the past again, 987 00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:14.720 but with a better critical consensus. 988 00:49:14.720 --> 00:49:16.080 Exactly. Yeah. 989 00:49:16.080 --> 00:49:20.080 Yeah. I think of that time as being really present focused 990 00:49:20.080 --> 00:49:23.440 and not future focused. Yes. But, like, I I agree that 991 00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:26.295 they're they're, like, it might have then been the idea of, 992 00:49:26.295 --> 00:49:30.295 like, if we fix this now, then, like, we're gonna set ourselves 993 00:49:30.295 --> 00:49:33.735 on the right path. But, like, I do remember a kind of, like, 994 00:49:33.735 --> 00:49:38.590 really specific future sort of perspective or thinking in the 995 00:49:38.590 --> 00:49:41.870 nineties, then maybe the early two thousands. 996 00:49:42.030 --> 00:49:45.070 But then, yeah, once we get into hipsterdom, it's like, we're 997 00:49:45.070 --> 00:49:49.950 gonna fix now. Now we have to fix then. Yeah. Like, gotta undo 998 00:49:49.950 --> 00:49:51.390 we gotta undo stuff feel 999 00:49:51.390 --> 00:49:53.985 like we are in a very odd place. And I know that's 1000 00:49:53.985 --> 00:49:59.505 sort of overly general. But in that, there is so much taking 1001 00:49:59.505 --> 00:50:04.225 stock of in all directions of the present, the past, and the 1002 00:50:04.225 --> 00:50:08.880 future right now. I think the feeling I'm sensing at least is 1003 00:50:09.520 --> 00:50:14.480 very much a woah woah woah woah woah woah. Like, in all 1004 00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:14.960 directions. 1005 00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:17.520 I think the gut of loss says maybe the problem was that 1006 00:50:17.520 --> 00:50:20.725 we thought it would come easy. And I think for a while, we did. 1007 00:50:20.725 --> 00:50:20.885 Yeah. 1008 00:50:20.885 --> 00:50:22.725 Yeah. And I think it did for a little while. 1009 00:50:22.725 --> 00:50:24.245 We thought that, like, there was work to be done, but, 1010 00:50:24.245 --> 00:50:24.885 like, we would do it. 1011 00:50:24.885 --> 00:50:27.765 Right. Or at least that it would come linearly. Yeah. 1012 00:50:27.765 --> 00:50:28.965 And it Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. 1013 00:50:28.965 --> 00:50:29.365 And it does not. 1014 00:50:29.605 --> 00:50:33.210 Step upon one. Yeah. I also wanna address I think it's 1015 00:50:33.210 --> 00:50:35.370 gone by, but someone said, like, isn't this a problem of getting 1016 00:50:35.370 --> 00:50:36.730 older? And I don't think it is. Mhmm. 1017 00:50:36.730 --> 00:50:38.490 Because I asked my parents this a little while ago. Was like, do 1018 00:50:38.490 --> 00:50:40.410 you guys feel like do you ever feel like the world is ending? 1019 00:50:40.410 --> 00:50:44.010 And they're like, god, no. Never. Things are getting 1020 00:50:44.010 --> 00:50:44.410 better. 1021 00:50:44.410 --> 00:50:46.410 Like, everything's always improving. They're like, why do 1022 00:50:46.410 --> 00:50:48.365 you? And I'm like, yeah. All the time. 1023 00:50:48.605 --> 00:50:51.245 Well, yeah. I also think it's a perspective as 1024 00:50:51.245 --> 00:50:54.605 well, of course. Because, you know, if you're older, I am also 1025 00:50:54.605 --> 00:50:59.405 imagine that you've seen many more iterations and and cycles, 1026 00:51:00.150 --> 00:51:02.710 how it feels and then what actually happens and how it 1027 00:51:02.710 --> 00:51:03.190 feels. 1028 00:51:03.190 --> 00:51:05.590 I think boomers aren't worried. I think categorically 1029 00:51:05.590 --> 00:51:06.630 boomers are not worried. 1030 00:51:06.630 --> 00:51:06.790 I think 1031 00:51:06.790 --> 00:51:09.670 that's fair. I I will say though, I I think that 1032 00:51:09.910 --> 00:51:13.590 boomers have not been worried for a very long time, but I 1033 00:51:13.590 --> 00:51:19.095 think they're starting to really understand the situation that 1034 00:51:19.095 --> 00:51:22.295 younger generations are in because like, for the first 1035 00:51:22.295 --> 00:51:26.775 time, I think like my parents are like, oh wait, the job 1036 00:51:26.775 --> 00:51:32.060 market is unsafe for everyone, including my kids. 1037 00:51:32.220 --> 00:51:35.420 And like Yeah. There's no like shortcut. There's no 1038 00:51:35.580 --> 00:51:37.180 I think that's I think that's true. Yeah. 1039 00:51:37.180 --> 00:51:41.260 Robert Reich's new memoir is apparently an apology for 1040 00:51:41.260 --> 00:51:43.835 boomers getting it wrong. Woah. 1041 00:51:43.915 --> 00:51:45.195 Did they nominate him as 1042 00:51:45.195 --> 00:51:45.515 the That's 1043 00:51:45.515 --> 00:51:45.915 what you 1044 00:51:45.915 --> 00:51:46.475 were reading. 1045 00:51:46.475 --> 00:51:47.195 He's the Yeah. 1046 00:51:47.195 --> 00:51:48.795 Yeah. They got they had a meeting. 1047 00:51:48.795 --> 00:51:50.075 I mean, they picked a good one. 1048 00:51:50.075 --> 00:51:51.275 Yeah. Yeah. 1049 00:51:51.355 --> 00:51:54.635 Because in a yeah. Because in a way, like, my 1050 00:51:54.635 --> 00:51:59.580 parents' generation, you know, got to escape the poverty that 1051 00:51:59.580 --> 00:52:02.060 my grandparents were in and there was hope you could like 1052 00:52:02.060 --> 00:52:05.260 get an education, get a job, have a pension, have benefits 1053 00:52:05.260 --> 00:52:08.860 and then, yeah, we know what happened to all of that. 1054 00:52:08.860 --> 00:52:09.740 Yeah. Home ownership? 1055 00:52:10.695 --> 00:52:11.735 Homo what? 1056 00:52:12.615 --> 00:52:16.535 At one day. Everyone is gay now. Fellas, is it good old 1057 00:52:16.535 --> 00:52:19.815 house? The gender is everywhere. 1058 00:52:21.815 --> 00:52:22.775 Alright. Did we solve 1059 00:52:22.775 --> 00:52:25.730 it? Yeah. Think so. Let's recapture this feature. 1060 00:52:25.730 --> 00:52:26.530 Hell yeah, gang. 1061 00:52:26.530 --> 00:52:28.450 Shell phone now. Shell phone now. 1062 00:52:28.450 --> 00:52:30.210 Shell phone now. Shell phone now. 1063 00:52:30.210 --> 00:52:33.010 I'm surprised no one brought up time travel. 1064 00:52:33.250 --> 00:52:35.330 No. It sucks in every direction. 1065 00:52:36.555 --> 00:52:37.595 I'll stay put. 1066 00:52:37.595 --> 00:52:39.355 I have so much going on. 1067 00:52:39.435 --> 00:52:41.995 I'm good, dog. I'm good. I'm sorry, brother. Sorry, 1068 00:52:41.995 --> 00:52:44.075 brother. I got I got places to be. 1069 00:52:44.315 --> 00:52:53.340 That's our team chat for the Never Post Member Drive stream 1070 00:52:53.340 --> 00:52:58.380 week. Thank you, Magle, famed Brooklyn ceramicist Yeah. For 1071 00:52:58.380 --> 00:52:59.260 joining us once again 1072 00:52:59.340 --> 00:52:59.900 Of course. 1073 00:52:59.900 --> 00:53:02.780 And for providing the frame for this conversation, 1074 00:53:03.020 --> 00:53:05.260 incisive as always. Thank you, chat. 1075 00:53:05.285 --> 00:53:05.765 Yes. 1076 00:53:05.765 --> 00:53:07.605 For joining us. Thank Chet. And all of your 1077 00:53:07.605 --> 00:53:09.765 contributions. They were invaluable. Excellent. 1078 00:53:09.765 --> 00:53:15.205 Very, very much appreciated. And I guess, you, Hans, Georgia, and 1079 00:53:15.205 --> 00:53:16.005 Jason. Wow. 1080 00:53:16.965 --> 00:53:17.685 I mean, 1081 00:53:18.485 --> 00:53:20.300 it's, Jason, I'm glad your 1082 00:53:20.300 --> 00:53:22.860 parents let you out for the afternoon. Yeah. Aren't you 1083 00:53:22.860 --> 00:53:25.500 late for I'm going to homework to make sure you're late. 1084 00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:35.145 That's the team chat that I have for you today. We'll be 1085 00:53:35.145 --> 00:53:37.145 back in the main feed right now. 1086 00:53:37.145 --> 00:53:41.705 Right now. Bye. Bye? Bye. Bye.