Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian Music

Andrew Gill and Leah Payne

Rock That Doesn’t Roll looks at how Christian music shaped the world we're living in now by telling individual stories from the peak era of the contemporary Christian music industry. In the 80s, 90s and early 2000s CCM grew into a billion dollar business that affected millions of evangelical young people. Through interviews with artists, industry players and average fans Dr. Leah Payne and Andrew Gill trace the long-lasting personal, cultural and political impact of sometimes cringe-worthy music. Expect hilarious moments and heartfelt yearning, purity culture and conservative politics- all in equal measure. Whether you’ve deconstructed, come out or renegotiated your faith, we hope you feel seen. If you’ve never given Christian music any thought beyond a punchline, we hope you’ll gain a deeper understanding of a subculture that’s shaping the world around us now.

Join our Patreon or Buy Us A Coffee.

Content © Leah Payne and Andrew Gill. All pre-released media is used under fair use provisions.

Join our Patreon or Buy Us A Coffee.

Content © Leah Payne and Andrew Gill. All pre-released media is used under fair use provisions.

31hr 56min

September 3, 202536min 3sec69.15 MB

October 8, 202534min 2sec65.29 MB

October 1, 202559min 18sec113.76 MB

September 24, 202555min 19sec106.1 MB

September 17, 20251hr 4min122.41 MB

September 10, 202543min 24sec83.25 MB

August 27, 202552min 6sec50.03 MB

August 20, 202546min 34sec89.34 MB

August 13, 202559min 21sec56.98 MB

August 6, 202553min 30sec102.62 MB

July 30, 20251hr 20min152.87 MB

July 23, 202552min 17sec100.31 MB

July 16, 20251min 27sec2.79 MB

July 9, 202552min 38sec100.97 MB

Is CCM surging in popularity?

July 2, 202548min 14sec92.51 MB

June 25, 20251hr 4min121.94 MB

June 18, 20251hr 16min145.94 MB

March 26, 20251min 20sec2.57 MB

Thumbnail for "Lo! A Christmas Special!".

The Second Annual Rock That Doesn't Roll CCM Christmas Song Awards

December 20, 202445min 8sec43.33 MB

November 1, 202430min 31sec29.3 MB

October 16, 202449min 30sec47.53 MB

October 2, 202432min 51sec31.55 MB

September 11, 202441min 37sec39.96 MB

August 28, 202445min 16sec43.47 MB

Thumbnail for "Christian Ska's Upbeats and Beatdowns (ft. Leanor Ortega Till of Five Iron Frenzy)".

August 14, 202438min 15sec36.72 MB

Thumbnail for "Yellow and Black Attack (ft. Michael Sweet of Stryper and Mike Tramp of White Lion)".

July 31, 202439min 36sec38.02 MB

Thumbnail for "Fictional Christian Music (ft. Righteous Gemstones' Joseph Stephens, Daniel Smith and Chris White)".

July 17, 202440min 58sec39.33 MB

Introducing: Let The Kids Dance!

July 3, 202445min 25sec43.6 MB

Thumbnail for "The DC Talk Test (ft. Jason Kirk and Kevin T. Porter)".

Are you a Toby, Michael, or a Kevin?

June 19, 202440min 4sec38.47 MB

Thumbnail for "Purity Bros (ft. Joshua Harris)".

Purity culture wasn’t just for youth group “purity girls.” “Purity bros” were also a part of the project! No one knows that more than Joshua Harris, a CCM fan who helped turn purity culture into an extreme sport. Together with his friend, Christian music superstar Rebecca St. James, they created media that inspired a generation of evangelicals to say no to sex outside of marriage, but also to things like dating, kissing, holding hands, and a lot of other things. In this episode, journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow the story of Josh Harris, one-time icon of purity culture. Josh found that X-games of evangelicalism included the thrill of victory, the agony of defeat, and eventually, a life beyond the world of purity bros and purity girls.

June 5, 202438min 12sec36.68 MB

Thumbnail for "Purity Girls (ft. Nikki Leonti)".

In 2001, teen singing sensation Nikki Leonti was on her way to a promising Christian music career. She had two hit CCM records, and - as a pop princess who swore to refrain from premarital sex - the support of big evangelical media organizations like James Dobson’s Focus on the Family. But then, at age 18, the “purity girl” Leonti announced she was pregnant, and lost it all. With insight from author and podcaster Devi Abraham, journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) explore how Christian music purity icons like Nikki Leonti, along with their fans, walked the tightrope of purity culture, lost their balance, and learned to put their lives back together again after they fell.

May 22, 202439min 4sec37.51 MB

Thumbnail for "Holy Hip Hop (ft. Soup The Chemist)".

In the 1990s, music critics argue that hip hop was in its golden age. Mainstream Top 40 charts were filled with hits from The Notorious B.I.G, Tupac Shakur, and Dr. Dre. But the Contemporary Christian charts lagged far, far behind. What took so long for holy hip hop to take off? With insight from Dr. Jonathan Calvillo (author of In the Time of Sky-Rhyming: How Hip Hop Resonated in Brown Los Angeles), journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow the story of Christopher J. Cooper, aka Soup the Chemist, aka Super C, a groundbreaking figure in the Christian hip hop movement. It wasn’t easy, but as Soup the Chemist worked to carve out a place for Christian hip hop to thrive, he laid the foundation for future Christian hip hop figures like Propaganda and Lecrae.

May 8, 202440min 59sec59.02 MB

Thumbnail for "Undo Me (ft. Jennifer Knapp)".

In 1999, singer-songwriter Jennifer Knapp was at the top of the Christian music world. But at the height of her fame, Jennifer moved across the globe, and disappeared from the world of CCM. This episode follows Knapp’s story and shows how, together with her fans, she’s making new meaning out of the Christian music of her past.

April 24, 202440min 25sec58.21 MB

In the second season of Rock That Doesn't Roll, hosts Dr. Leah Payne and Andrew Gill look at how Christian music shaped the world we're living in now.

April 17, 20242min 13sec3.19 MB

In this bonus episode, Andrew and Leah talk with Lars Gotrich of NPR Music, the producer who brought Amy Grant to play a Tiny Desk Concert. Lars shares how he went from "judgy Christian punk rocker" to someone good at existing in two worlds at once.

March 6, 202425min 27sec36.61 MB

A sample episode of No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp

February 22, 202457min 42sec82.97 MB

In this bonus episode Leah and Andrew interview Jim Cooper, the composer who wrote and recorded the original score for Rock That Doesn't Roll.

January 17, 202416min 47sec16.12 MB

Thumbnail for "It's Christmastime! CCM Christmas Music Awards from Rock That Doesn't Roll".

‘Tis the season for holiday specials and Andrew Gill (producer, Sound Opinions) and Leah Payne (author, God Gave Rock and Roll to You) of Rock that Doesn’t Roll are bringing you a surprise holiday gift: weirdly specific awards for Contemporary Christian Music Christmas tunes!

December 21, 202328min 48sec69.15 MB

For 1990s and early aughts youth group alumni, Christian rock is often the source of embarrassment or shame - but does it have to be that way? The season finale of Rock That Doesn't Roll explores the idea that maybe, just maybe, the key to getting over angst about Christian rock isn't rejecting it or avoiding it, but coming to peace with the person you were when you fell in love with it. With insight from historian Randall J. Stephens (author, The Devil's Music), hosts Andrew Gill (producer, Sound Opinions) and Leah Payne (author, God Gave Rock & Roll to You) follow the story of David Bazan, a Pentecostal pastor's kid-turned-indie rocker who spent decades running from his CCM past. Along the way, Bazan founded Pedro the Lion, and gained critical acclaim, but his fraught relationship with evangelical Christianity and the world of Contemporary Christian Music haunted him. In the end, Bazan suggests that one way to make peace with a CCM past is to learn to be “the billy of your actual hills.”

December 13, 202356min 1sec80.67 MB

The late 90s and early aughts were a banner time for a really specific type of rock band - the are-they-or-aren't-they a Christian band, band. This week on Rock that Doesn't Roll: does an artist who identifies as Christian have to brand their music as such? With insight from David Dark, hosts Andrew Gill and Leah Payne follow the story of Jon Foreman, a pastor’s kid from Carlsbad, California whose band Switchfoot created songs that resonated with youth group kids and climbed the Top 40 charts. Were they, or were they not, a Christian band?

November 29, 202351min 24sec74.02 MB

For many evangelical teens of the 1990s, record stores were not the place to find kid-tested, parent-approved music. For that, Christian teens usually had to go to Christian bookstores. There, among the Bibles and Precious Moments dolls and Christian-themed t-shirts, they found the records that defined their adolescence. Their guide? Bookstore Guys.

November 15, 202348min 30sec69.85 MB

For every 1990s Christian rock star who made it big, there were thousands of never-realized would-be Christian rock dreams. This episode follows two aspiring stars as they wrestle with God and glory and making it in the Christian music biz.

November 1, 202351min 37sec74.33 MB

For 1990s evangelical teens, punk, hardcore, and ska were a gateway to a passionate, edgy way to express their Christianity outside the mainstream. But was the music and the message enough to keep the evangelical faith? We follow three Christian punk rock stories.

October 18, 202342min 46sec61.6 MB

Christian rock has a lot of naysayers, but for evangelical teens of the 1990s, it was EVERYTHING. And the place to find Christian rock gods? Youth group.

October 4, 202344min 15sec63.73 MB

Dive into the world of Christian rock with its biggest fans.

August 24, 20233min 37sec5.23 MB

Larry Norman and Bob Dylan's Born Again Era Part 2 (ft. Gregory Alan Thornbury)

September 3, 202536min 3sec

Larry Norman thought another world was possible. Christians would make daring, artistic rock music. Mainstream musicians would make earnestly explore their spirituality in popular songs. He started a record label and an artist management company to make this a reality. And though he could see glimpses of this world, it was fully realized.

Gregory Alan Thornbury is our guest this week- in an interview recorded in 2022. He's Norman's biographer and an "erstwhile theologian" as he puts it. His 2018 book, Why Should the Devil Have All the Good Music?: Larry Norman and the Perils of Christian Rock is a very thorough accounting of this singular artist. This episode highlights some of those "perils" referenced in the subtitle.

This is part two of the interview. Topics covered in this segment include the reaction of the mainstream rock industry to Larry Norman, Bob Dylan's born again era, the lasting effect of the Christian contemporary music industry on America and where we see this energy today.

---

Register for Theology Beer Camp with our promo code RTDR for $75 off.

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr(join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.