Hi, we’re Deb Perelman (Smitten Kitchen) and J. Kenji López-Alt (Serious Eats, The Food Lab, The Wok). We’re professional home cooks, which means we can - and will - make the same meal 57 times in a row on the quest for the perfect recipe. Is it crazy? For us, no, because we do this for a living. But for you? Yes, probably. Which is why you should listen to The Recipe with Kenji and Deb. You'll hear us talk about what goes into writing our recipes — the techniques we test, the ingredients we taste — so that you can be on your way to creating your own perfect recipe. Whether you're cooking meatloaf, pancakes, or chicken soup in all its forms, we got you, and you've got this.The Recipe with Kenji and Deb is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent and listener-supported podcasts. Discover audio with vision at <a href="http://radiotopia.fm">radiotopia.fm</a>.

Things we learn in this episode: Kenji has a not-so-secret secret ingredient for can’t-miss pie crust, Deb is not allowed at Thanksgiving without her pie, the birthplace of Kenji’s love of junk food, the ideal baking apple, why American apple pie reigns supreme.Radiotopia's fall fundraiser is happening now! Visit radiotopia.fm/donate.

Things we learn in this episode: Kenji has a not-so-secret secret ingredient for can’t-miss pie crust, Deb is not allowed at Thanksgiving without her pie, the birthplace of Kenji’s love of junk food, the ideal baking apple, why American apple pie reigns supreme.
Radiotopia's fall fundraiser is happening now! Visit radiotopia.fm/donate.

Apple Pie

Chicken soup is the universal comfort food, but there are as many versions of chicken soup as there are planets in the universe. Depending on where and how you grew up, versions as varied as “Jewish penicillin”, phở gà, stracciatella, Campbell’s condensed all mean home to someone.Radiotopia’s fall fundraiser is here! <a href="http://radiotopia.fm/donate">Donate today</a> to help us reach our goal of 2,024 donors. Thank you!

Chicken soup is the universal comfort food, but there are as many versions of chicken soup as there are planets in the universe. Depending on where and how you grew up, versions as varied as “Jewish penicillin”, phở gà, stracciatella, Campbell’s condensed all mean home to someone.
Radiotopia’s fall fundraiser is here! Donate today to help us reach our goal of 2,024 donors. Thank you!

Chicken Soup

Congratulations are in order for Deb, who released the <a href="https://libro.fm/audiobooks/9798217067022-smitten-kitchen-keepers-a-kitchen-counter-conversation">audiobook of Smitten Kitchen Keepers</a> earlier this month. We are proud to share with you a little excerpt.Back in 2006, when she was just starting her food journey, she encountered a lot of dud recipes on the internet. (Haven’t we all?) This book is a collection of the ones you’ll want to return to over and over again, aka the keepers.You can purchase a hardcover version at our page on <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/104031/9780593318782">bookshop.org</a>, and a portion of the sale will go towards supporting our network.The Radiotopia fundraiser is happening now! <a href="https://www.radiotopia.fm/donate">Donate today</a>.

Congratulations are in order for Deb, who released the audiobook of Smitten Kitchen Keepers earlier this month. We are proud to share with you a little excerpt.
Back in 2006, when she was just starting her food journey, she encountered a lot of dud recipes on the internet. (Haven’t we all?) This book is a collection of the ones you’ll want to return to over and over again, aka the keepers.
You can purchase a hardcover version at our page on bookshop.org, and a portion of the sale will go towards supporting our network.
The Radiotopia fundraiser is happening now! Donate today.

A Smidge of Smitten Kitchen Keepers

Deb and Kenji are taking a break this week. Please enjoy this classic episode from <a href="https://homecooking.show/">Home Cooking</a>, our fellow Radiotopia show about food.****************************** According to our callers, a big part of Thanksgiving seems to be making food for your loved ones that you only kind of like yourself. But can we make these dishes a little better for the people cooking them?! We’re gonna try. Plus, Demi Adejuyigbe (<a href="https://instagram.com/electrolemon">@electrolemon</a>), tells about his quarantine baking adventures.For recipes, transcripts, and more, visit <a href="http://homecooking.show/12">homecooking.show/12</a>.

Deb and Kenji are taking a break this week. Please enjoy this classic episode from Home Cooking, our fellow Radiotopia show about food.
****************************** 
According to our callers, a big part of Thanksgiving seems to be making food for your loved ones that you only kind of like yourself. But can we make these dishes a little better for the people cooking them?! We’re gonna try. Plus, Demi Adejuyigbe (@electrolemon), tells about his quarantine baking adventures.
For recipes, transcripts, and more, visit homecooking.show/12.

Take a Break with Home Cooking

Kenji and Deb are major, MAJOR fans of popcorn — “God’s gift to snacking” (two guesses who said that). One might actually call them a miracle of science. How does a hard af, yellow pebble turn into a fluffy white edible cloud? How does movie popcorn butter smell so heavenly without any butter? This is Popcornology 101, class is now in session.

Kenji and Deb are major, MAJOR fans of popcorn — “God’s gift to snacking” (two guesses who said that). One might actually call them a miracle of science. How does a hard af, yellow pebble turn into a fluffy white edible cloud? How does movie popcorn butter smell so heavenly without any butter? This is Popcornology 101, class is now in session.

Popcorn

Kids say the darndest things, and so do Deb and Kenji. “Nobody likes penne.” “Chiffonade is pretentious.” “I have honestly no idea what my recipe contains.” And they’re not the only ones. There are people out there who call baked ziti — get this — lasagna. While baked ziti may be universally loved as a workhorse of catered buffets, potlucks, and meal trains, Deb and Kenji’s takes on the dish are worlds apart.

Kids say the darndest things, and so do Deb and Kenji. “Nobody likes penne.” “Chiffonade is pretentious.” “I have honestly no idea what my recipe contains.” And they’re not the only ones. There are people out there who call baked ziti — get this — lasagna. 
While baked ziti may be universally loved as a workhorse of catered buffets, potlucks, and meal trains, Deb and Kenji’s takes on the dish are worlds apart.

Baked Ziti

In this episode, Deb and Kenji stop being polite and start getting real. Turns out, they weren’t born with encyclopedic knowledge of food; before each recording session, they consult…Wikipedia. (Stars, they’re just like us.)You may think of Caesar salad as the most ubiquitous of American salads. In fact, Caesar salad was invented in Mexico. However, it was invented by an American for Americans coming across the border to drink during Prohibition. Come to think of it, that may just be the most American thing ever. Also in this episode: the secret behind Worcestershire sauce and a hack for a quick Caesar dressing. Fax, no printer.

In this episode, Deb and Kenji stop being polite and start getting real. Turns out, they weren’t born with encyclopedic knowledge of food; before each recording session, they consult…Wikipedia. (Stars, they’re just like us.)
You may think of Caesar salad as the most ubiquitous of American salads. In fact, Caesar salad was invented in Mexico. However, it was invented by an American for Americans coming across the border to drink during Prohibition. Come to think of it, that may just be the most American thing ever. Also in this episode: the secret behind Worcestershire sauce and a hack for a quick Caesar dressing. Fax, no printer.

the most American salad

Caesar Salad

Deb: “This is the perfect sandwich.” Kenji: “This is my favorite sandwich of all time.” In fact, Kenji has gone way beyond just admiring and ingesting the Bacon-Lettuce-Tomato; as Isaac Newton captured the physical world with his laws of motion, Kenji has bestowed us with the <a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/ultimate-blt-sandwich-bacon-lettuce-tomato-recipe">11 rules of the BLT</a>. Deb has made her own significant contributions to the field of sandwich science, with the theory of seasonal variation of the summer BLT and "off-season" BLT.

Deb: “This is the perfect sandwich.” Kenji: “This is my favorite sandwich of all time.” In fact, Kenji has gone way beyond just admiring and ingesting the Bacon-Lettuce-Tomato; as Isaac Newton captured the physical world with his laws of motion, Kenji has bestowed us with the 11 rules of the BLT. Deb has made her own significant contributions to the field of sandwich science, with the theory of seasonal variation of the summer BLT and "off-season" BLT.

Kenji and Deb will be back September 9 with all new episodes. Watch this space!

Kenji and Deb will be back September 9 with all new episodes. Watch this space!

Back for Seconds

Kenji has many pans going on the fire at all times, one of which was directing this year’s Community Curated Series for Seattle Arts &amp; Lectures. In January 2024, he invited his future podcast bestie Deb onstage with him to chop it up about recipe development (and theft!), family, and greasy bags of Dick’s. Thanks to Alison Stagner and Woogee Bae of <a href="https://lectures.org/">Seattle Arts &amp; Lectures</a> for their help.

Kenji has many pans going on the fire at all times, one of which was directing this year’s Community Curated Series for Seattle Arts & Lectures. In January 2024, he invited his future podcast bestie Deb onstage with him to chop it up about recipe development (and theft!), family, and greasy bags of Dick’s. 
Thanks to Alison Stagner and Woogee Bae of Seattle Arts & Lectures for their help.

Onstage at SAL

Live from Seattle: Deb in conversation with Kenji

Thanks to our friends at Special Sauce for allowing us to share this episode. Deb, Kenji, and host Ed Levine talk about ye olde days of early food blogging and the backstory of The Recipe.

Thanks to our friends at Special Sauce for allowing us to share this episode. Deb, Kenji, and host Ed Levine talk about ye olde days of early food blogging and the backstory of The Recipe.

From our friends at Special Sauce with Ed Levine

Kenji and Deb and Ed

We know you don’t want to burn your food in the kitchen (unless it’s a char/sear kinda situation), but you know what else you don’t want to burn? You, the cook. Deb and Kenji reveal their tips for avoiding cooking burnout, as well as how to mine your own sodium citrate at home. Did your eyes get whiplash reading this? Buckle up because your letters took us all over the map: biscuits for every purpose, what kind of pancakes Barbie would eat, how to cook like a boss for 1-2 people.

We know you don’t want to burn your food in the kitchen (unless it’s a char/sear kinda situation), but you know what else you don’t want to burn? You, the cook. Deb and Kenji reveal their tips for avoiding cooking burnout, as well as how to mine your own sodium citrate at home. Did your eyes get whiplash reading this? Buckle up because your letters took us all over the map: biscuits for every purpose, what kind of pancakes Barbie would eat, how to cook like a boss for 1-2 people.

Deb and Kenji take more of your questions

Mailbag Part 2

After putting out our first batch of episodes, we put out a call to our listeners — any questions? You sure did. Thanks to listeners from around the world who heeded our call, we bring you our first mailbag episode. Kenji and Deb debunk the 30-minute recipe, contemplate tiers of butter, go down the soup dumpling rabbit hole, and much more.

After putting out our first batch of episodes, we put out a call to our listeners — any questions? You sure did. Thanks to listeners from around the world who heeded our call, we bring you our first mailbag episode. Kenji and Deb debunk the 30-minute recipe, contemplate tiers of butter, go down the soup dumpling rabbit hole, and much more.

Deb and Kenji take your questions

Mailbag Part 1

In this episode, Kenji and Deb talk all about asparagus. You can roast it, puree it, sautee it, grill it, and even eat it raw. It can serve as a snack or as part of a main dish. Did you know it grows in different colors? Hear how Deb prepares asparagus as a family snack and how it can make for a great pizza topping. And it wouldn't be an episode about asparagus without learning about the science behind its notorious side-effect. Recipes mentioned:Snacky Asparagus (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2022/04/snacky-asparagus/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)Shaved Asparagus Pizza (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2010/05/shaved-asparagus-pizza/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)Simple Grilled Asparagus (From <a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/simple-grilled-asparagus-recipe">Serious Eats</a>)Braised Asparagus (from <a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/braised-asparagus-recipe">Serious Eats</a>)

In this episode, Kenji and Deb talk all about asparagus. You can roast it, puree it, sautee it, grill it, and even eat it raw. It can serve as a snack or as part of a main dish. Did you know it grows in different colors? Hear how Deb prepares asparagus as a family snack and how it can make for a great pizza topping. And it wouldn't be an episode about asparagus without learning about the science behind its notorious side-effect. 
Recipes mentioned:
Snacky Asparagus (from Smitten Kitchen)
Shaved Asparagus Pizza (from Smitten Kitchen)
Simple Grilled Asparagus (From Serious Eats)
Braised Asparagus (from Serious Eats)

The one about asparagus

Asparagus

Grilling season is here and so are Kenji and Deb to talk grilled chicken. From marinades to brines, to the one thing that can prevent dried-out grilled chicken: a meat thermometer. No easy access to a grill? We talk grill pans, using vinaigrette for grilled chicken, and a condiment base for your marinades that Deb now swears by.Recipes mentioned:<ul>
<li>Kenji's Mayo-Marinated Chicken With Chimichurri(from <a href="https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1020543-mayo-marinated-chicken-with-chimichurri">NYT Cooking</a>)</li>
<li>Deb’s Piri Piri Chicken (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2016/09/piri-piri-chicken/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
</ul>

Grilling season is here and so are Kenji and Deb to talk grilled chicken. From marinades to brines, to the one thing that can prevent dried-out grilled chicken: a meat thermometer. No easy access to a grill? We talk grill pans, using vinaigrette for grilled chicken, and a condiment base for your marinades that Deb now swears by.
Recipes mentioned:

Kenji's Mayo-Marinated Chicken With Chimichurri(from NYT Cooking)
Deb’s Piri Piri Chicken (from Smitten Kitchen)

Fired up for grilled chicken

Grilled Chicken

Iceberg lettuce gets a bad rap, but can make a good wrap. In this episode, Kenji and Deb go all in on lettuce. From wedge salads with homemade ranch to chronicling the rise, fall, and resurgence of the hardest-working lettuce in the kitchen. Knife and fork wedge salads are just the tip of the iceberg. Iceberg lettuce soup? Pickled iceberg lettuce? We got you.  Recipes mentioned:<ul>
<li>Deb’s Iceberg Wedge with Blue Cheese (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2007/12/an-iceberg-wedge/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
<li>Deb’s Baby Wedge Salad with Avocado and Pickled Onion (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2023/04/baby-wedge-salad-with-avocado-and-pickled-onions/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
<li>Kenji’s Fully Loaded Iceberg Wedge Salad (from <a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/wedge-salad-iceberg-blue-cheese-bacon-recipe">Serious Eats</a>)</li>
<li>Kenji says “Wedge Salads are Great” (<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvUHEYQQGtU">Kenji’s Cooking Show</a>)</li>
</ul>

Iceberg lettuce gets a bad rap, but can make a good wrap. In this episode, Kenji and Deb go all in on lettuce. From wedge salads with homemade ranch to chronicling the rise, fall, and resurgence of the hardest-working lettuce in the kitchen. Knife and fork wedge salads are just the tip of the iceberg. Iceberg lettuce soup? Pickled iceberg lettuce? We got you.  
Recipes mentioned:

Deb’s Iceberg Wedge with Blue Cheese (from Smitten Kitchen)
Deb’s Baby Wedge Salad with Avocado and Pickled Onion (from Smitten Kitchen)
Kenji’s Fully Loaded Iceberg Wedge Salad (from Serious Eats)
Kenji says “Wedge Salads are Great” (Kenji’s Cooking Show)

Lettuce discuss wedge salads

Iceberg Salad

News to us at Radiotopia, but there are some of you out there who have some really strong feelings about grilled cheese, almost enough for a whole separate podcast. What is it about this seemingly mellow, humble sandwich — a favorite of both small children and stoners — that elicits all this controversy? (It’s always the quiet ones.) Even if you don’t like grilled cheese, it’s worth listening just for Kenji’s genius lifehack involving sausage.PS - If you are Team Triangle (IYDKNYK), <a href="https://cottonbureau.com/p/3V9S9Y/shirt/triangles-taste-better#/3809963/tee-men-standard-tee-white-100percent-cotton-s">get yourself this rad t-shirt</a> (100% of profits go to ACLU) PPS - for perfect grilled cheese, <a href="https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4CS658v67UAKrH33ZrSrJT?si=6673de3b94864b97">listen to this playlist</a> Recipes mentioned:<ul>
<li>Deb’s Frico Grilled Cheese Sandwiches (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2013/10/frico-grilled-cheese-sandwiches/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
<li>Deb’s Classic Grilled Cheese + Cream of Tomato Soup (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2006/11/cream-of-tomato-soup-classic-grilled-cheese/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
<li>Kenji’s Grilled Cheese Sandwich (from <a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/serious-eats-grilled-cheese-sandwich-recipe">Serious Eats</a>)</li>
<li>Kenji’s Good Grilled Cheese (from <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD8UTr5mMVk">Kenji’s Cooking Show</a>)</li>
<li>Kenji’s Late Night Chorizo Grilled Cheese (from <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OVNG7JpnJA">Kenji’s Cooking Show</a>)</li>
</ul>

News to us at Radiotopia, but there are some of you out there who have some really strong feelings about grilled cheese, almost enough for a whole separate podcast. What is it about this seemingly mellow, humble sandwich — a favorite of both small children and stoners — that elicits all this controversy? (It’s always the quiet ones.) Even if you don’t like grilled cheese, it’s worth listening just for Kenji’s genius lifehack involving sausage.
PS - If you are Team Triangle (IYDKNYK), get yourself this rad t-shirt (100% of profits go to ACLU) 
PPS - for perfect grilled cheese, listen to this playlist
Recipes mentioned:

Deb’s Frico Grilled Cheese Sandwiches (from Smitten Kitchen)
Deb’s Classic Grilled Cheese + Cream of Tomato Soup (from Smitten Kitchen)
Kenji’s Grilled Cheese Sandwich (from Serious Eats)
Kenji’s Good Grilled Cheese (from Kenji’s Cooking Show)
Kenji’s Late Night Chorizo Grilled Cheese (from Kenji’s Cooking Show)

Sandwichgate Revisited 

 Grilled Cheese

Some people think tomato soup only exists to serve as a dipping sauce for grilled cheese, but Kenji and Deb are here to set them straight. A properly, lovingly made tomato soup — even with sad-looking supermarket tomatoes from February — can be a time portal, from the dreariest winter day to the peak of summer farmer’s market fresh. Kenji makes Deb’s genius “grilled cheese kind of built into the tomato soup”, unlocking a new level of tomato soup nirvana.Recipes mentioned:<ul>
<li>Deb’s Weeknight Tomato Soup (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2024/03/weeknight-tomato-soup/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
<li>Deb’s Classic Grilled Cheese + Cream of Tomato Soup (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2006/11/cream-of-tomato-soup-classic-grilled-cheese/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
<li>Deb’s Roasted Tomato Soup with Broiled Cheddar (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2011/09/roasted-tomato-soup-with-broiled-cheddar/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
<li>Kenji’s Fast and Easy Pasta with Blistered Cherry Tomato Sauce (from <a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/fast-easy-pasta-blistered-cherry-tomato-sauce-recipe">Serious Eats</a>)</li>
<li>Kenji’s 15-Minute Creamy Tomato Soup (Vegan) (from <a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/15-minute-creamy-tomato-soup-vegan-recipe">Serious Eats</a>)</li>
<li>Lisa Steele’s Cream-Fried Eggs (from the <a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/recipes/cream-fried-eggs/">Washington Post</a>)</li>
</ul>

Some people think tomato soup only exists to serve as a dipping sauce for grilled cheese, but Kenji and Deb are here to set them straight. A properly, lovingly made tomato soup — even with sad-looking supermarket tomatoes from February — can be a time portal, from the dreariest winter day to the peak of summer farmer’s market fresh. Kenji makes Deb’s genius “grilled cheese kind of built into the tomato soup”, unlocking a new level of tomato soup nirvana.
Recipes mentioned:

Deb’s Weeknight Tomato Soup (from Smitten Kitchen)
Deb’s Classic Grilled Cheese + Cream of Tomato Soup (from Smitten Kitchen)
Deb’s Roasted Tomato Soup with Broiled Cheddar (from Smitten Kitchen)
Kenji’s Fast and Easy Pasta with Blistered Cherry Tomato Sauce (from Serious Eats)
Kenji’s 15-Minute Creamy Tomato Soup (Vegan) (from Serious Eats)
Lisa Steele’s Cream-Fried Eggs (from the Washington Post)

The paradox of tomato soup — best of winter AND summer

Tomato Soup

In preparation for this episode, Deb and Kenji fed their children so many pancakes that they are now on a pancake strike. But before you start feeling sorry for these young people, don’t forget they got to taste the rainbow of pancake styles. Tall and fluffy. Crisp and fluffy. Thin and crispy. The hottest pancake in the world right now, the Japanese soufflé. Tough life, kids!We learn why baking soda, baking powder, and buttermilk feature prominently, and the technique for “the absolute fluffiest pancake”.Recipes Mentioned:<ul>
<li><a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2017/05/tall-fluffy-buttermilk-pancakes/">Smitten Kitchen pancakes</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/light-and-fluffy-pancakes-recipe">Serious Eats pancakes</a></li>
<li><a href="https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1020121-chez-ma-tantes-pancakes?ds_c=71700000052595478&amp;site=google&amp;network=g&amp;campaign_id=1400169272&amp;gad_source=1&amp;gclid=Cj0KCQiAxOauBhCaARIsAEbUSQTkz2ThLfz18YUIo__aZrwCrhwwM-ANfkLxRH1IRMnU-0WzlEl_giAaAuyREALw_wcB&amp;gclsrc=aw.ds">Chez Ma Tante pancakes on NYT Cooking</a></li>
</ul>

In preparation for this episode, Deb and Kenji fed their children so many pancakes that they are now on a pancake strike. But before you start feeling sorry for these young people, don’t forget they got to taste the rainbow of pancake styles. Tall and fluffy. Crisp and fluffy. Thin and crispy. The hottest pancake in the world right now, the Japanese soufflé. Tough life, kids!
We learn why baking soda, baking powder, and buttermilk feature prominently, and the technique for “the absolute fluffiest pancake”.
Recipes Mentioned:

Smitten Kitchen pancakes
Serious Eats pancakes
Chez Ma Tante pancakes on NYT Cooking

Is there such a thing as too much pancake? 

Pancakes

Kenji and Deb have history with meatloaf that goes way, way back, to summer camp in the 80s. It was not love at first taste, but Deb has a moment of clarity and achieves meatloaf enlightenment. Kenji and Deb chew over “meat batter”, how many Meat Loaf references in one podcast episode constitutes audio malpractice, and if parents who send their teenage children to the store for one ingredient are monsters. Recipes Mentioned:<ul>
<li>Deb’s Turkey Meatloaf for Skeptics (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2022/05/smitten-kitchen-keepers/">Smitten Kitchen Keepers</a>) </li>
<li>Kenji’s Classic Meatloaf (excerpted from The Food Lab, courtesy of <a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-all-american-meatloaf-excerpt-recipe">Serious Eats</a>)
</li>
</ul>

Kenji and Deb have history with meatloaf that goes way, way back, to summer camp in the 80s. It was not love at first taste, but Deb has a moment of clarity and achieves meatloaf enlightenment. Kenji and Deb chew over “meat batter”, how many Meat Loaf references in one podcast episode constitutes audio malpractice, and if parents who send their teenage children to the store for one ingredient are monsters. 
Recipes Mentioned:

Deb’s Turkey Meatloaf for Skeptics (from Smitten Kitchen Keepers) 
Kenji’s Classic Meatloaf (excerpted from The Food Lab, courtesy of Serious Eats)

Welcome to the Meatloaf Matrix

Meatloaf

Most people are familiar with the stuff in the blue box, but what might seem like a simple dish holds many nuances, from achieving that perfectly smooth cheese melt to avoiding greasiness or lumpiness. Find out why mac and cheese holds a special place in Kenji's heart and the results of Deb’s experience making Kenji’s three ingredient recipe.Recipes Mentioned:<a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2018/02/quick-essential-stovetop-mac-and-cheese/">Deb’s Stovetop Mac and Cheese</a> (courtesy of Smitten Kitchen)<a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/ingredient-stovetop-mac-and-cheese-recipe">Kenji’s Stovetop Mac and Cheese</a> (courtesy of Serious Eats)

Most people are familiar with the stuff in the blue box, but what might seem like a simple dish holds many nuances, from achieving that perfectly smooth cheese melt to avoiding greasiness or lumpiness. Find out why mac and cheese holds a special place in Kenji's heart and the results of Deb’s experience making Kenji’s three ingredient recipe.
Recipes Mentioned:
Deb’s Stovetop Mac and Cheese (courtesy of Smitten Kitchen)
Kenji’s Stovetop Mac and Cheese (courtesy of Serious Eats)

The pragmatism and the pitfalls of stovetop mac and cheese. 

Stovetop Mac and Cheese

New from Radiotopia, The Recipe with Kenji and Deb. Join us to hear what goes into writing our recipes — the techniques we test, the ingredients we taste — so that you can be on your way to creating your own perfect recipe. Whether you're cooking meatloaf, pancakes, or chicken soup, we got you, and you've got this. Episode 1 drops February 26. Follow us on Instagram @kenjianddeb and visit our <a href="http://therecipepodcast.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">website</a>.

New from Radiotopia, The Recipe with Kenji and Deb. Join us to hear what goes into writing our recipes — the techniques we test, the ingredients we taste — so that you can be on your way to creating your own perfect recipe. Whether you're cooking meatloaf, pancakes, or chicken soup, we got you, and you've got this. Episode 1 drops February 26. Follow us on Instagram @kenjianddeb and visit our website.