Hi, we’re Deb Perelman (Smitten Kitchen) and J. Kenji López-Alt (Serious Eats, The Food Lab, The Wok). We’re professional home cooks, which means we can - and will - make the same meal 57 times in a row on the quest for the perfect recipe. Is it crazy? For us, no, because we do this for a living. But for you? Yes, probably. Which is why you should listen to The Recipe with Kenji and Deb. You'll hear us talk about what goes into writing our recipes — the techniques we test, the ingredients we taste — so that you can be on your way to creating your own perfect recipe. Whether you're cooking meatloaf, pancakes, or chicken soup in all its forms, we got you, and you've got this.The Recipe with Kenji and Deb is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent and listener-supported podcasts. Discover audio with vision at <a href="http://radiotopia.fm">radiotopia.fm</a>.

Most people are familiar with the stuff in the blue box, but what might seem like a simple dish holds many nuances, from achieving that perfectly smooth cheese melt to avoiding greasiness or lumpiness. Find out why mac and cheese holds a special place in Kenji's heart and the results of Deb’s experience making Kenji’s three ingredient recipe.

Recipes Mentioned:

<a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2018/02/quick-essential-stovetop-mac-and-cheese/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Deb’s Stovetop Mac and Cheese</a> (courtesy of Smitten Kitchen)

<a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/ingredient-stovetop-mac-and-cheese-recipe" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kenji’s Stovetop Mac and Cheese</a> (courtesy of Serious Eats)

Most people are familiar with the stuff in the blue box, but what might seem like a simple dish holds many nuances, from achieving that perfectly smooth cheese melt to avoiding greasiness or lumpiness. Find out why mac and cheese holds a special place in Kenji's heart and the results of Deb’s experience making Kenji’s three ingredient recipe.
Recipes Mentioned:
Deb’s Stovetop Mac and Cheese (courtesy of Smitten Kitchen)
Kenji’s Stovetop Mac and Cheese (courtesy of Serious Eats)

The pragmatism and the pitfalls of stovetop mac and cheese. 

Stovetop Mac and Cheese

Grilling season is here and so are Kenji and Deb to talk grilled chicken. From marinades to brines, to the one thing that can prevent dried-out grilled chicken: a meat thermometer. No easy access to a grill? We talk grill pans, using vinaigrette for grilled chicken, and a condiment base for your marinades that Deb now swears by.Recipes mentioned:<ul>
<li>Kenji's Mayo-Marinated Chicken With Chimichurri(from <a href="https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1020543-mayo-marinated-chicken-with-chimichurri">NYT Cooking</a>)</li>
<li>Deb’s Piri Piri Chicken (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2016/09/piri-piri-chicken/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
</ul>

Grilling season is here and so are Kenji and Deb to talk grilled chicken. From marinades to brines, to the one thing that can prevent dried-out grilled chicken: a meat thermometer. No easy access to a grill? We talk grill pans, using vinaigrette for grilled chicken, and a condiment base for your marinades that Deb now swears by.
Recipes mentioned:

Kenji's Mayo-Marinated Chicken With Chimichurri(from NYT Cooking)
Deb’s Piri Piri Chicken (from Smitten Kitchen)

Fired up for grilled chicken

Grilled Chicken

Iceberg lettuce gets a bad rap, but can make a good wrap. In this episode, Kenji and Deb go all in on lettuce. From wedge salads with homemade ranch to chronicling the rise, fall, and resurgence of the hardest-working lettuce in the kitchen. Knife and fork wedge salads are just the tip of the iceberg. Iceberg lettuce soup? Pickled iceberg lettuce? We got you.  Recipes mentioned:<ul>
<li>Deb’s Iceberg Wedge with Blue Cheese (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2007/12/an-iceberg-wedge/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
<li>Deb’s Baby Wedge Salad with Avocado and Pickled Onion (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2023/04/baby-wedge-salad-with-avocado-and-pickled-onions/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
<li>Kenji’s Fully Loaded Iceberg Wedge Salad (from <a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/wedge-salad-iceberg-blue-cheese-bacon-recipe">Serious Eats</a>)</li>
<li>Kenji says “Wedge Salads are Great” (<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvUHEYQQGtU">Kenji’s Cooking Show</a>)</li>
</ul>

Iceberg lettuce gets a bad rap, but can make a good wrap. In this episode, Kenji and Deb go all in on lettuce. From wedge salads with homemade ranch to chronicling the rise, fall, and resurgence of the hardest-working lettuce in the kitchen. Knife and fork wedge salads are just the tip of the iceberg. Iceberg lettuce soup? Pickled iceberg lettuce? We got you.  
Recipes mentioned:

Deb’s Iceberg Wedge with Blue Cheese (from Smitten Kitchen)
Deb’s Baby Wedge Salad with Avocado and Pickled Onion (from Smitten Kitchen)
Kenji’s Fully Loaded Iceberg Wedge Salad (from Serious Eats)
Kenji says “Wedge Salads are Great” (Kenji’s Cooking Show)

Lettuce discuss wedge salads

Iceberg Salad

News to us at Radiotopia, but there are some of you out there who have some really strong feelings about grilled cheese, almost enough for a whole separate podcast. What is it about this seemingly mellow, humble sandwich — a favorite of both small children and stoners — that elicits all this controversy? (It’s always the quiet ones.) Even if you don’t like grilled cheese, it’s worth listening just for Kenji’s genius lifehack involving sausage.PS - If you are Team Triangle (IYDKNYK), <a href="https://cottonbureau.com/p/3V9S9Y/shirt/triangles-taste-better#/3809963/tee-men-standard-tee-white-100percent-cotton-s">get yourself this rad t-shirt</a> (100% of profits go to ACLU) PPS - for perfect grilled cheese, <a href="https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4CS658v67UAKrH33ZrSrJT?si=6673de3b94864b97">listen to this playlist</a> Recipes mentioned:<ul>
<li>Deb’s Frico Grilled Cheese Sandwiches (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2013/10/frico-grilled-cheese-sandwiches/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
<li>Deb’s Classic Grilled Cheese + Cream of Tomato Soup (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2006/11/cream-of-tomato-soup-classic-grilled-cheese/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
<li>Kenji’s Grilled Cheese Sandwich (from <a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/serious-eats-grilled-cheese-sandwich-recipe">Serious Eats</a>)</li>
<li>Kenji’s Good Grilled Cheese (from <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD8UTr5mMVk">Kenji’s Cooking Show</a>)</li>
<li>Kenji’s Late Night Chorizo Grilled Cheese (from <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OVNG7JpnJA">Kenji’s Cooking Show</a>)</li>
</ul>

News to us at Radiotopia, but there are some of you out there who have some really strong feelings about grilled cheese, almost enough for a whole separate podcast. What is it about this seemingly mellow, humble sandwich — a favorite of both small children and stoners — that elicits all this controversy? (It’s always the quiet ones.) Even if you don’t like grilled cheese, it’s worth listening just for Kenji’s genius lifehack involving sausage.
PS - If you are Team Triangle (IYDKNYK), get yourself this rad t-shirt (100% of profits go to ACLU) 
PPS - for perfect grilled cheese, listen to this playlist
Recipes mentioned:

Deb’s Frico Grilled Cheese Sandwiches (from Smitten Kitchen)
Deb’s Classic Grilled Cheese + Cream of Tomato Soup (from Smitten Kitchen)
Kenji’s Grilled Cheese Sandwich (from Serious Eats)
Kenji’s Good Grilled Cheese (from Kenji’s Cooking Show)
Kenji’s Late Night Chorizo Grilled Cheese (from Kenji’s Cooking Show)

Sandwichgate Revisited 

 Grilled Cheese

Some people think tomato soup only exists to serve as a dipping sauce for grilled cheese, but Kenji and Deb are here to set them straight. A properly, lovingly made tomato soup — even with sad-looking supermarket tomatoes from February — can be a time portal, from the dreariest winter day to the peak of summer farmer’s market fresh. Kenji makes Deb’s genius “grilled cheese kind of built into the tomato soup”, unlocking a new level of tomato soup nirvana.Recipes mentioned:<ul>
<li>Deb’s Weeknight Tomato Soup (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2024/03/weeknight-tomato-soup/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
<li>Deb’s Classic Grilled Cheese + Cream of Tomato Soup (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2006/11/cream-of-tomato-soup-classic-grilled-cheese/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
<li>Deb’s Roasted Tomato Soup with Broiled Cheddar (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2011/09/roasted-tomato-soup-with-broiled-cheddar/">Smitten Kitchen</a>)</li>
<li>Kenji’s Fast and Easy Pasta with Blistered Cherry Tomato Sauce (from <a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/fast-easy-pasta-blistered-cherry-tomato-sauce-recipe">Serious Eats</a>)</li>
<li>Kenji’s 15-Minute Creamy Tomato Soup (Vegan) (from <a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/15-minute-creamy-tomato-soup-vegan-recipe">Serious Eats</a>)</li>
<li>Lisa Steele’s Cream-Fried Eggs (from the <a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/recipes/cream-fried-eggs/">Washington Post</a>)</li>
</ul>

Some people think tomato soup only exists to serve as a dipping sauce for grilled cheese, but Kenji and Deb are here to set them straight. A properly, lovingly made tomato soup — even with sad-looking supermarket tomatoes from February — can be a time portal, from the dreariest winter day to the peak of summer farmer’s market fresh. Kenji makes Deb’s genius “grilled cheese kind of built into the tomato soup”, unlocking a new level of tomato soup nirvana.
Recipes mentioned:

Deb’s Weeknight Tomato Soup (from Smitten Kitchen)
Deb’s Classic Grilled Cheese + Cream of Tomato Soup (from Smitten Kitchen)
Deb’s Roasted Tomato Soup with Broiled Cheddar (from Smitten Kitchen)
Kenji’s Fast and Easy Pasta with Blistered Cherry Tomato Sauce (from Serious Eats)
Kenji’s 15-Minute Creamy Tomato Soup (Vegan) (from Serious Eats)
Lisa Steele’s Cream-Fried Eggs (from the Washington Post)

The paradox of tomato soup — best of winter AND summer

Tomato Soup

In preparation for this episode, Deb and Kenji fed their children so many pancakes that they are now on a pancake strike. But before you start feeling sorry for these young people, don’t forget they got to taste the rainbow of pancake styles. Tall and fluffy. Crisp and fluffy. Thin and crispy. The hottest pancake in the world right now, the Japanese soufflé. Tough life, kids!

We learn why baking soda, baking powder, and buttermilk feature prominently, and the technique for “the absolute fluffiest pancake”.

Recipes Mentioned:

<ul>
<li><a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2017/05/tall-fluffy-buttermilk-pancakes/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Smitten Kitchen pancakes</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/light-and-fluffy-pancakes-recipe" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Serious Eats pancakes</a></li>
<li><a href="https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1020121-chez-ma-tantes-pancakes?ds_c=71700000052595478&amp;site=google&amp;network=g&amp;campaign_id=1400169272&amp;gad_source=1&amp;gclid=Cj0KCQiAxOauBhCaARIsAEbUSQTkz2ThLfz18YUIo__aZrwCrhwwM-ANfkLxRH1IRMnU-0WzlEl_giAaAuyREALw_wcB&amp;gclsrc=aw.ds" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Chez Ma Tante pancakes on NYT Cooking</a></li>
</ul>

In preparation for this episode, Deb and Kenji fed their children so many pancakes that they are now on a pancake strike. But before you start feeling sorry for these young people, don’t forget they got to taste the rainbow of pancake styles. Tall and fluffy. Crisp and fluffy. Thin and crispy. The hottest pancake in the world right now, the Japanese soufflé. Tough life, kids!
We learn why baking soda, baking powder, and buttermilk feature prominently, and the technique for “the absolute fluffiest pancake”.
Recipes Mentioned:
Smitten Kitchen pancakes


Serious Eats pancakes


Chez Ma Tante pancakes on NYT Cooking

Is there such a thing as too much pancake? 

Pancakes

Kenji and Deb have history with meatloaf that goes way, way back, to summer camp in the 80s. It was not love at first taste, but Deb has a moment of clarity and achieves meatloaf enlightenment. Kenji and Deb chew over “meat batter”, how many Meat Loaf references in one podcast episode constitutes audio malpractice, and if parents who send their teenage children to the store for one ingredient are monsters. 

Recipes Mentioned:

<ul>
<li>Deb’s Turkey Meatloaf for Skeptics (from <a href="https://smittenkitchen.com/2022/05/smitten-kitchen-keepers/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Smitten Kitchen Keepers</a>) </li>
<li>Kenji’s Classic Meatloaf (excerpted from The Food Lab, courtesy of <a href="https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-all-american-meatloaf-excerpt-recipe" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Serious Eats</a>)</li>
</ul>

Kenji and Deb have history with meatloaf that goes way, way back, to summer camp in the 80s. It was not love at first taste, but Deb has a moment of clarity and achieves meatloaf enlightenment. Kenji and Deb chew over “meat batter”, how many Meat Loaf references in one podcast episode constitutes audio malpractice, and if parents who send their teenage children to the store for one ingredient are monsters. 
Recipes Mentioned:
Deb’s Turkey Meatloaf for Skeptics (from Smitten Kitchen Keepers) 


Kenji’s Classic Meatloaf (excerpted from The Food Lab, courtesy of Serious Eats)

Welcome to the Meatloaf Matrix

Meatloaf

New from Radiotopia, The Recipe with Kenji and Deb. Join us to hear what goes into writing our recipes — the techniques we test, the ingredients we taste — so that you can be on your way to creating your own perfect recipe. Whether you're cooking meatloaf, pancakes, or chicken soup, we got you, and you've got this. Episode 1 drops February 26. Follow us on Instagram @kenjianddeb and visit our <a href="http://therecipepodcast.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">website</a>.

New from Radiotopia, The Recipe with Kenji and Deb. Join us to hear what goes into writing our recipes — the techniques we test, the ingredients we taste — so that you can be on your way to creating your own perfect recipe. Whether you're cooking meatloaf, pancakes, or chicken soup, we got you, and you've got this. Episode 1 drops February 26. Follow us on Instagram @kenjianddeb and visit our website.